₦airaland Forum

TenQ:
So, if Russia is that interste in joining NATO, why are they protesting
1. NATO's expansion to the East
2. Ukraine joining NATO

what is the NAto alliance for in the first place?it is for world peace,they want to join ,but it is not for world peace ,they started expanding to the east .

olas24u:
The Maidan Revolution was a CIA operation inside of Ukraine ,they dont have democracy as you think in Ukraine ,oppositions are clamped ,killed ,sent to prison ,its a tough environment and not a democratic one ,the way you think.Russia does not need Ukraine, they get free Gas , from Russia and they dont even pay.it is not useful to russia , the donesk luhask area ,as Russian population and its the richest area in Ukraine.They have created their own republic and the rest is useless.

Forget about politics
1. Where does the heart of the average Ukrainian fall: with Russia or with NATO/Europe?


WHY?

TenQ:
So, if Russia is that interste in joining NATO, why are they protesting
1. NATO's expansion to the East
2. Ukraine joining NATO

Was libya in europe?was syria in europe ?how come NATO went to those countries ?North Atlantic Treaty Organization
The North Atlantic Treaty Organization was created in 1949 by the United States, Canada, and several Western European nations to provide collective security against the Soviet Union.

TenQ:
Forget about politics
1. Where does the heart of the average Ukrainian fall: with Russia or with NATO/Europe?


WHY?

ordinary citizens want a better life and want to join to eu so that ,they can escape poverty ,But elites in the country know better

olas24u:
what is the NAto alliance for in the first place?it is for world peace,they want to join ,but it is not for world peace ,they started expanding to the east .

You think of NATO membership as if it is a conquest. Is it?

1. Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014 and took over Crimea
2. From 2014, Russia had been funding and equipping the Ukraine separatists to fight the government

If you were Ukrainian, where would your allegiance lie?

olas24u:
ordinary citizens want a better life and want to join to eu so that ,they can escape poverty ,But elites in the country know better

How about their preference between NATO or Russia for military alliance?

olas24u:
Was libya in europe?was syria in europe ?how come NATO went to those countries ?North Atlantic Treaty Organization
The North Atlantic Treaty Organization was created in 1949 by the United States, Canada, and several Western European nations to provide collective security against the Soviet Union.

So, the truth is that Russia does not have any reason to join NATO in the first place. There application could as well be termed "bull shit"

Techsupport:
You think there was an absolute need to call me an Idiot? I hope that put some money in your pocket

It was a joke. I was laughing. Wen the post didn’t go thru, I readjusted it and reposted, suspecting u will fail to catch the joke. U truly did not disappoint. That’s sad

Techsupport:
I don't know Ryan Mcbeth. What I said is what my instructor and many before him tell every marine in boot camp and weapons training.

What u said is brilliant by the way. Yet u sometimes need decors targeted at making ur enemies spend ammunition and firepower. Ukraine is living on donated arms. How long are those donors willing to continue funding Ukraine? And feeding their displaced persons? Russia also has other wars to worry about more difficult than Ukraine. Example is the Kuril island disputed with Japan. They’ve started military drills their recently.

GardenOfGod:
Ukraine is winning the war surprisingly

Dey are not winning! Russia are retreating away from dose places to d Dombass regions.western media making it look lyk Ukrainian soldiers were fighting to retake d town.in actual fact Its d invaders dat are retreating to oda areas,according to deir pledge.

[quote author=IhateYouMan post=111567295]No, they were destroyed [/quote
pls show evidence. since Monday,Russian forces has been retreating from some areas according to deir agreement at d last dialogue.Stop lieing to urselfs.Dat was how dey left d nuclear power plants in chernihiv,nd propagandists said dey were exposed to some chemicals by d Ukrainian soldiers.Soo much lies on d cyberspace.

TenQ:
So, the truth is that Russia does not have any reason to join NATO in the first place. There application could as well be termed "bull shit"

Nato is not united nations ,but just an alliance between countries and they have broken international laws, you must collectively debate issues at the united nations and the united nation decides ,that is meant to be the normal. Not just going to bomb a place because it will favour your own country.

olas24u:
Nato is not united nations ,but just an alliance between countries and they have broken international laws, you must collectively debate issues at the united nations and the united nation decides ,that is meant to be the normal. Not just going to bomb a place because it will favour your own country.

In the case of Ukraine, Putin is not telling us the whole truth. Russia simply want to annex parts of Ukraine

So Russia waged the war only to retreat?

Demolakay:
Dey are not winning! Russia are retreating away from dose places to d Dombass regions.western media making it look lyk Ukrainian soldiers were fighting to retake d town.in actual fact Its d invaders dat are retreating to oda areas,according to deir pledge.

Nonsense reasoning.

Krismas:
It was a joke. I was laughing. Wen the post didn’t go thru, I readjusted it and reposted, suspecting u will fail to catch the joke. U truly did not disappoint. That’s sad

I am not bothered by name calling. I have been called a lot worse. I take no offense and as it was a joke, I double take no offense.

Cheers

Krismas:
What u said is brilliant by the way. Yet u sometimes need decors targeted at making ur enemies spend ammunition and firepower. Ukraine is living on donated arms. How long are those donors willing to continue funding Ukraine? And feeding their displaced persons? Russia also has other wars to worry about more difficult than Ukraine. Example is the Kuril island disputed with Japan. They’ve started military drills their recently.

I agree with you on the funding and all. This is ultimately a war between Russia and the rest of western world. This is Sept 1st 1939 and Hitler just attacked Poland. If the world came together like they are doing today against Hitler, there would not have been world war 2. They world will continue to supply arms and military personnel to Ukraine until the war is over. Now rebuilding Ukraine, that is a whole other story

Techsupport:
I agree with you on the funding and all. This is ultimately a war between Russia and the rest of western world. This is Sept 1st 1939 and Hitler just attacked Poland. If the world came together like they are doing today against Hitler, there would not have been world war 2. They world will continue to supply arms and military personnel to Ukraine until the war is over. Now rebuilding Ukraine, that is a whole other story

For point one, I believe it depends wot side of the divide u subscribe. For point 2. I believe another conflict can erupt anywhere on the globe like tomorrow and all attention on Ukraine will be fragmented. It could be North Korea going against south or China going against Taiwan. The longer the Ukraine war drag the worse for Ukraine and better for Russia

TenQ:
In the case of Ukraine, Putin is not telling us the whole truth. Russia simply want to annex parts of Ukraine

Yes, because they never saw the future, when they were donating territories such as crimea and creating and populating donesk. Can you donate sometjing to your wife and your wife takes it to another man. Crimea was donated to Ukraine.

TenQ:
In the case of Ukraine, Putin is not telling us the whole truth. Russia simply want to annex parts of Ukraine

Have you even heard or read about the euro Asian economic Union? These are former soviet Republics and have their own union, Russia didnot annex them. They are partners in economic issues.

Krismas:
For point one, I believe it depends wot side of the divide u subscribe. For point 2. I believe another conflict can erupt anywhere on the globe like tomorrow and all attention on Ukraine will be fragmented. It could be North Korea going against south or China going against Taiwan. The longer the Ukraine war drag the worse for Ukraine and better for Russia

Personally, I don't subscribe to any of them, I have never pledged allegiance to either Ukraine or Russia, but because we live in a world of moral construct and civic responsibility, when a bully becomes aggressive, it is the place of the strong to defend the weak.
Now that is a completely idealistic statement, life is not that black and white. Russia does not have the man power to wage another war right now. They have a yearly conscripts of around 135k these are not battle ready soldiers.
China is waiting to see if the west treats Ukraine with kids glove, so they will know their next move on Taiwan, as for North Korea, they just want recognition.
On a prolonged battle, the truth is that Russia will take Ukraine, their is no doubt, it will destroy russia's military budget but they can take Ukraine. But here is were I give you first hand experience, taking a country is not holding the country. Russia is not ready for guerrilla warfare. When I was in the sandbox, insurgents attack was fairly easy to identify, except for ied. First, the look different, and we had state of the art surveillance equipment. In Ukraine, they look alike, they understand each other's language, the Russians will be wearing military uniforms which will make them easy to pick out, they will not survive guerrilla attacks for long.
Taking Kiev and the presidential palace is no longer the standard of winning a country. This is not the medieval times.
This is a war that Ukraine will suffer but Russia cannot win.

TenQ:
In the case of Ukraine, Putin is not telling us the whole truth. Russia simply want to annex parts of Ukraine

there must be a strategic purpose ,why you will annex the place,russia share borders with a dozen countries as well ,it is just russia phobia,russia shares boder with china,america,finland,,ukriane,estonia,latvia Lithuania,japan northkorea and eurasia countries

olas24u:
there must be a strategic purpose ,why you will annex the place,russia share borders with a dozen countries as well ,it is just russia phobia,russia shares boder with china,america,finland,,ukriane,estonia,latvia Lithuania,japan northkorea and eurasia countries

How about the Donbas region occupied by ethnic Russians?
How about the seaport at Ukraine?
How about the large iron ore deposits in East Ukraine?
How about Crimea?

olas24u:
Have you even heard or read about the euro Asian economic Union? These are former soviet Republics and have their own union, Russia didnot annex them. They are partners in economic issues.

And you can notice that none of them can be called economically prosperous.
Most have Russian backed president.

The imposition of a Russian backed president backfired in Ukraine in 2014. This is the reason for Putin's invasion

TenQ:
How about the Donbas region occupied by ethnic Russians?
How about the seaport at Ukraine?
How about the large iron ore deposits in East Ukraine?
How about Crimea?

The spoils of war and strategic to Russia and it will be negotiated, all you have mentioned are all in the donesk region ,they want to join Russia, Crimea was a gift from Russians to Ukrainians

TenQ:
And you can notice that none of them can be called economically prosperous.
Most have Russian backed president.

The imposition of a Russian backed president backfired in Ukraine in 2014. This is the reason for Putin's invasion

Viktor Yushchenko was the president and did not end is tenure because of maiden, all soviet union countries are economically advance and self reliant with soviet era infrastructure, even the baltic countries were once in the soviet union, will you say they are prosperous because they are in the Eu.they have good educational system ,healthcare ,and infrastructures that work, and they are Europeans. Europeans have the most civilized continent Russia included

olas24u:
Yes, because they never saw the future, when they were donating territories such as crimea and creating and populating donesk. Can you donate sometjing to your wife and your wife takes it to another man. Crimea was donated to Ukraine.

You have just stated the real purpose of the war by Putin. It was just to seize lands of Ukraine where ethnic Russians live and it isn't about NATO, nor the so-called neo-Nazis, nor the Azon battalion.

If it was because Ukraine wanted to join NATO, Ukraine has said more than 2 weeks ago that they understand that they can never be part of NATO. Why didn't the war end so that negotiations can continue. Instead, the arrogant Putin said to another sovereign nation: "Stop fighting and surrender"!

Putin is a Big BULLY!

TenQ:
And you can notice that none of them can be called economically prosperous.
Most have Russian backed president.

The imposition of a Russian backed president backfired in Ukraine in 2014. This is the reason for Putin's invasion

the next big thing is
Armenia
Belarus
Kazakhstan
Kyrgyzstan
Russia

shanghai cooperation

The SCO currently comprises eight Member States (China, India, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, Pakistan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan), four Observer States interested in acceding to full membership (Afghanistan, Belarus, Iran, and Mongolia) and six “Dialogue Partners” (Armenia, Azerbaijan, Cambodia, Nepal, Sri Lanka


they will form a partnership, with same currency and an economic union,i expect africa to also grow

olas24u:
Viktor Yushchenko was the president and did not end is tenure because of maiden, all soviet union countries are economically advance and self reliant with soviet era infrastructure, even the baltic countries were once in the soviet union, will you say they are prosperous because they are in the Eu.they have good educational system ,healthcare ,and infrastructures that work, and they are Europeans. Europeans have the most civilized continent Russia included

Ukraine seems to be the most prosperous amongst the countries that broke away from the Soviet Union. Even the ones that have large gas deposit are so corrupt that they remain backward.

All Putin want is that Ukraine should be like Belarus and then there could be peace.

Is the above false?

TenQ:
You have just stated the real purpose of the war by Putin. It was just to seize lands of Ukraine where ethnic Russians live and it isn't about NATO, nor the so-called neo-Nazis, nor the Azon battalion.

If it was because Ukraine wanted to join NATO, Ukraine has said more than 2 weeks ago that they understand that they can never be part of NATO. Why didn't the war end so that negotiations can continue. Instead, the arrogant Putin said to another sovereign nation: "Stop fighting and surrender"!

Putin is a Big BULLY!

with all the evidences of bio labs ,and sampling of ethnic russians ,you think they dont have details of plots against them ,Russia needs security guarantee's .so when NATO went to libya it was not a bully?libya is 8million people ,syria ?Yugoslavia,how come their was no oppositaion in iraq,?they were not bullies .go an get your facts and balance the news.

olas24u:
the next big thing is
Armenia
Belarus
Kazakhstan
Kyrgyzstan
Russia

shanghai cooperation

The SCO currently comprises eight Member States (China, India, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, Pakistan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan), four Observer States interested in acceding to full membership (Afghanistan, Belarus, Iran, and Mongolia) and six “Dialogue Partners” (Armenia, Azerbaijan, Cambodia, Nepal, Sri Lanka


they will form a partnership, with same currency and an economic union,i expect africa to also grow

Good luck to them as it is a failed venture from the beginning!
Why?
The biggest trading partner to Russia and China is still the West (USA, UK, Canada, Germany and the rest of Western Europe) and not Africa nor the Arab countries.

This shouldn't justify a neighbor invading your own country because of restoration of an old empire.

TenQ:
Ukraine seems to be the most prosperous amongst the countries that broke away from the Soviet Union. Even the ones that have large gas deposit are so corrupt that they remain backward.

All Putin want is that Ukraine should be like Belarus and then there could be peace.

Is the above false?

They are all the same ,they have infrastructure and educational system, all the infasturtures are the same,when you go to the baltics ,you see their university its same and good ,the only difference was that they had population ,44million, 44million people should produce more than few population

TenQ:
Good luck to them as it is a failed venture from the beginning!
Why?
The biggest trading partner to Russia and China is still the West (USA, UK, Canada, Germany and the rest of Western Europe) and not Africa nor the Arab countries.

This shouldn't justify a neighbor invading your own country because of restoration of an old empire.

Russia now has new markets for its weapons in Africa and Asia ,it is only energy deals and some natural resources such as Tantalum, India buys Russian oil and gas,china ,iran venezula,brazil ,Mali, central African republic, Sudan ,Egypt.europeans will surely turn to Africa, and they dont like to be partners but conquers,africa is were they will turn to for resources