₦airaland Forum

Workch:
Humans didn't evolve from apes, humans are apes.
The ape species humans evolved from are extinct. Look up and make research, you won't die if you read

Edozie4bc:
maybe op evolved from ape family : :Dl

gentleman82:
Deep within you , you know you are talking rubbish that makes no sense. A simple question as to why did apes , monkey , baboons etc have stopped evolving for thousands of years can not be answered . why did evolution stop?

Khaleepha5681:
You are minding stupids.

They are whom Obama called "Graduates without common sense". Obama gave an example with a US senator who trotted out a snow ball during floor speech,as an evidence that world/global warming is not true. Lol! in US!.

Ignorants keep mocking the hardworks of our scientists while they just sit down contributing nothing but ready to mock whatever science worked to discover. To be kind,these ignorants would be first to go extinct in near future.

Pendemics would keep coming out,and these fools would keep playing nonsense.

Scientists are the ones preventing faster evolution with their discoveries to ease life,if not,all these idiots would go extinct.

Workch:
It amazes me

seunH:
BUT.............
If we were observant, we would realize that inasmuch as evolution occured i.e Genetic mutation and Natural selection. It didn't give rise to a new specie (speciation), they were still elephants (both tuskless and tusked), they were still human beings (both AS and AA). This now lead to scientist, trying to manually induce genetic mutation which the view of bringing about speciation (a new specie). This would help especially preventing extinction of species and reviving extinct species.
However, I'm sad to report that the result had been disastrous. Most genetic mutations were observed to be harmful (even the AS example above i.e AS×AS=SS), at best useless, rarely useful. And even when achieved could not lead to a new specie.
Let me give you an example, dogs have the highest genetic diversity that we can easily relate to, but do you know that despite their diversity, a Great Dane can mate with a Chihuahua and give rise to viable offspring, why? because despite their genetic diversity (mutation), they are still dogs!!!. If we were not alive and we saw their fossils, we would have theorized that evolution took place by observing their bones which of course is false, because they are all dogs.
Another example is the Drosophila fly, it is one of the most laboratory studied fly for genetic analysis and is one of the insects most exposed to laboratory induced genetic mutation for more than 50 years, but yet a new specie has not been able to be "laboratory"created.
What does the above examples indicate............

seunH:
.............This indicates that up till now, speciation still remains a mystery, how we came about, how a lion, house rat, cockroach or even housefly came about still remains a mystery. Please don't google pseudo scientific publication to back up what it's obvious because you should ask yourself, if man can induce new species, chimpanzees out closest relatives (98% genetic similarity) would have been induced to give rise to human being by shutting down the 2% difference and inducing a 2% similarity lolzzzzzz!!! but jokes apart we would have seen different specie to specie transformations to suit our needs especially in the cases of endangered species.
In conclusion, let us try and be open minded when dealing with scientific issues, so that we won't fall into the trap we are trying to avoid.

Thank you for your time (Note: I'm a Human Anatomist and a Veterinarian, Evolution and Genetics were compulsory courses when I was in school).

Please feel free to ask or comment on my post, no man is an island of knowledge!!!!

Workch:
good write up but we have observed speciation in the last 10 decades.
A good example of speciation which happened naturally is the galapagos finches. We have seen new species of these birds in recent years.
There has also been successful experiment performed it drive speciation in bacteriophage lambda in a lab in university of Michigan. You do not expect speciation to happen in 50years within a population of orgnaims as complex as a fly. I don't think any biologist today would expect a species of flies under controlled environments to have enough offsprings to drive speciation in 50years, that's not how it works.

Speciation is difficult to achieve using higher organism most times it takes several generations for it to happen, so you obviously don't think you would see speciation in artifical bedding of dogs within few decades or humans , that's really not how it works. It's more feasible to see it happen in very simple organisms like viruses and bacteria because we didn't even know about DNA until in the last century.

We have an experiment currently been conducted called the E coli experiment, this has proven every aspect of evolution and the remaining is speciation, although we already have evidence for speciation.

Time is key

topcatking:
Well, now that you have confirmed that you are an ape and a d3scendant of monkeys... (no insult, I'm just paraphrasing your belief). Here's a quick question for you:

Humanity (and indeed the human body) has been as is for thousands of years ... Why has "your" evolution stalled/stopped?

One would postulate that we would have evolved physical mechanisms to cope with the environment , to fly... to protect against the sun...to generally be more....optimised for life on the planet, alas... these are pipe dreams.

So...my gorilla-friend, I think you should go back to your studies, apply your mind, and all will be revealed.

Peace.

seunH:
My dear respected learned colleague, let me for the sake of readers explain speciation in this context. If a genetically mutated specie can still "mate" and produce offspring (provided their reproductive capacity was not damaged in the mutation) we can't tentatively say speciation has occured sir. In your example above sir, Galapagos finches are still finches irrespective of their beak form or body size etc and can still mate with one another, provided they are "finches"

In your number 2 point sir, advances in science and medicine has made it possible for several offspring to be created within a short period invitro/invivo studies and tissue culture sir.

On your third point sir, dog artificial dog breeding is not as recent as you think sir, it had been occuring since ages. GSD, Bull mastiffs, Great Danes etc are not recent breeds sir, they are as old as time immemorial.

On your last point sir, those viruses and bacteria where speciation has been claimed to occur are still bacteria or viruses of the specie because they can still reproduce with each other. That's why you would see names like SARS COV 1, SARS COV 2. Inasmuch as they are genetic mutants of each other, they still retain their family name SARS COV because they are still the same specie. Your last statement has summarized all I've been saying sir. Thanks for the response

Workch:
speciation is not a mystery. It has been observed.

Kaibab and Abert's squirrels - Separate squirrel species evolved after the Grand Canyon was formed, resulting in different squirrel species evolving on either side of the canyon. We have observed a new species of this squirrels recently

Read up this article on natgeographics https://www.nationalgeographic.org/encyclopedia/speciation/

seunH:
My chief, when you go through my last post, you would see that the answer to the above is plain. Firstly sir for the sake of our readers, for you to say speciation has occured as in the above claim, we need the following;

1) Has the parent stock been identified? (life or fossil) i.e the original squirrel that gave rise to the two species

2) Has genetic analysis been conducted on the two species to indicate initial similarities and subsequent genetic divergence

3) Are the two species able to mate to produce a viable offspring?

If the answer is no, sir then we are dealing with the same species.
Furthermore even from what you wrote sir, they are both still called "squirrels" nothing new.

My brother we are both scientist and we should not swallow what human beings like me and you wrote simply because they are whites, many times these things have been shown to be wrong and reviewed. Even this 98% similarities with chimps has been reviewed severally even at a time to 92%!!!!

Workch:
We won't say they are another species if they can still mate with each. Look at it like this, we have different species of rats, they cannot mate with earth other, they are sill rats.
We have different species of dogs, including the painted dogs, gray wolf's and domestics dogs, they cannot mate, they are still dogs.
We have different species of cats, they cannot mate, they are still cats.

It's the same way we have different species and new species of finches that cannot mate hence speciation.
There's no amount of advancement that can make about 50,000 - 100,000 generations of flies possible in 50years. That's about the amount of generations you need to start seeing any effect of speciation. The ideal way to experiment speciation is in microorganisms, they have the ability fo reproduce fast and Create new species within our lifetime.
artifical breeding of dogs is recent in the context of evolution considering that we didn't start domestication of animals until recently in respect to 4billion+ years of the age of earth. Now do the scaling
I think you have issues knowing what a species actually is.

Bacteria is not a species, bacteria in taxonomy is a kingdom. So you got to still go down to phyla, classes, orders, family, genus before getting to species. Speciation deals with emergence of different species and not different genus, family or order etc. So your comment about bacteria still being bacteria is a misinterpretation of what speciation deals with. You are assuming that a bacteria has to become like amoeba in the kingdom protozoa or a dog in kingdom animalia for it to be called speciation. No that's not how it works

For example, if you observe E. Coli for another species, we can call them E. Colus, that's speciation because it cannot exchange genetic material with its parent bacteria. It mustn't a case where E. Coli becomes a dog before you say speciation has happened. As long as a species cannot mate with its parents species, it's speciation and we have observed that happened

seunH:
"Look at it like this, we have different species of rats, they cannot mate with earth other, they are sill rats" My dear colleague, that is wrong sir, all species of rats (rat scientifically) can mate together to produce offspring. Infact when we come across species where mating is difficult we start reconsidering their specie

§We have different species of dogs, including the painted dogs, gray wolf's and domestics dogs, they cannot mate, they are still dogs.
We have different species of cats, they cannot mate, they are still cats. My dear colleague, that is also wrong sir, remember it's my field�. That they are called "dogs" doesn't indicate they are our normal domestic dogs breeds. The specie were are referring to here is domestic breeds. It's like saying lions and domestic cats are same species because they are both called cats

Workch:
We won't say they are another species if they can still mate with each. Look at it like this, we have different species of rats, they cannot mate with earth other, they are sill rats.
We have different species of dogs, including the painted dogs, gray wolf's and domestics dogs, they cannot mate, they are still dogs.
We have different species of cats, they cannot mate, they are still cats.

It's the same way we have different species and new species of finches that cannot mate hence speciation.
There's no amount of advancement that can make about 50,000 - 100,000 generations of flies possible in 50years. That's about the amount of generations you need to start seeing any effect of speciation. The ideal way to experiment speciation is in microorganisms, they have the ability fo reproduce fast and Create new species within our lifetime.
artifical breeding of dogs is recent in the context of evolution considering that we didn't start domestication of animals until recently in respect to 4billion+ years of the age of earth. Now do the scaling
I think you have issues knowing what a species actually is.

Bacteria is not a species, bacteria in taxonomy is a kingdom. So you got to still go down to phyla, classes, orders, family, genus before getting to species. Speciation deals with emergence of different species and not different genus, family or order etc. So your comment about bacteria still being bacteria is a misinterpretation of what speciation deals with. You are assuming that a bacteria has to become like amoeba in the kingdom protozoa or a dog in kingdom animalia for it to be called speciation. No that's not how it works

For example, if you observe E. Coli for another species, we can call them E. Colus, that's speciation because it cannot exchange genetic material with its parent bacteria. It mustn't a case where E. Coli becomes a dog before you say speciation has happened. As long as a species cannot mate with its parents species, it's speciation and we have observed that happened

seunH:
"Look at it like this, we have different species of rats, they cannot mate with earth other, they are sill rats"

My dear colleague, that is wrong sir, all species of rats (rat scientifically) can mate together to produce offspring. Infact when we come across species where mating is difficult we start reconsidering their specie

"We have different species of dogs, including the painted dogs, gray wolf's and domestics dogs, they cannot mate, they are still dogs.
We have different species of cats, they cannot mate, they are still cats"

My dear colleague, that is also wrong sir, remember it's my field�. That they are called "dogs" doesn't indicate they are our normal domestic dogs breeds. The specie were are referring to here is domestic breeds. It's like saying lions and domestic cats are same species because they are both called cats

"There's no amount of advancement that can make about 50,000 - 100,000 generations of flies possible in 50years. That's about the amount of generations you need to start seeing any effect of speciation."

My boss chief, it's possible sir, kindly google the terms I sent to you sir. You'll see the possibility, and it has even been done sir.

Bacteria is not a species, bacteria in taxonomy is a kingdom. So you got to still go down to phyla, classes, orders, family, genus before getting to species. Speciation deals with emergence of different species and not different genus, family or order etc. So your comment about bacteria still being bacteria is a misinterpretation of what speciation deals with. You are assuming that a bacteria has to become like amoeba in the kingdom protozoa or a dog in kingdom animalia for it to be called speciation. No that's not how it works

Sir, you did read what I posted properly, I said "bacteria of the specie"

Moreover, as I said earlier the specie we are talking about sir is not the taxonomical nomenclature sir, we are talking in context of evolution. We are talking about emergence of a distinct category of life with different characteristics capable of intrasexual activity within it category while incapable with it's parent stock

Workch:
We won't say they are another species if they can still mate with each. Look at it like this, we have different species of rats, they cannot mate with earth other, they are sill rats.
We have different species of dogs, including the painted dogs, gray wolf's and domestics dogs, they cannot mate, they are still dogs.
We have different species of cats, they cannot mate, they are still cats.

It's the same way we have different species and new species of finches that cannot mate hence speciation.
There's no amount of advancement that can make about 50,000 - 100,000 generations of flies possible in 50years. That's about the amount of generations you need to start seeing any effect of speciation. The ideal way to experiment speciation is in microorganisms, they have the ability fo reproduce fast and Create new species within our lifetime.
artifical breeding of dogs is recent in the context of evolution considering that we didn't start domestication of animals until recently in respect to 4billion+ years of the age of earth. Now do the scaling
I think you have issues knowing what a species actually is.

Bacteria is not a specie, bacteria in taxonomy is a kingdom. So you got to still go down to phyla, classes, orders, family, genus before getting to species. Speciation deals with emergence of different species and not different genus, family or order etc. So your comment about bacteria still being bacteria is a misinterpretation of what speciation deals with. You are assuming that a bacteria has to become like amoeba in the kingdom protozao or a dog in kingdom animalia for it to be called speciation. No that's not how it works

For example, if you observe E. Coli for another species, we can call them E. Colus, that's speciation because it cannot exchange genetic material with its parent bacteria. It mustn't a case where E. Coli becomes a dog before you say speciation has happened. As long as a species cannot mate with its parents species, it's speciation and we have observed that happened

A001:
Your knowledge of biological science is commendable.

But I want you to think about this: The Earth is around 4.5 billion years old, the Homo Erectus epoch occurred approximately 2 million years before the modern man, and the Homo Sapiens era is about 280,000 years old.

The Age of Scientific Enlightenment is around 600 years old, and today, scientists can breed some organisms like microbes, rats, dogs, etc. as a result of the key advances made in some areas of biological sciences within the last 100 years.

If we can record much achievements in just a relatively short period of time, then we can't rule out the possibility that some human species in the past had bred many organisms, even including humans.

Do you honestly believe that homo erectuses, who lived much longer than the oldest modern man, wouldn't have achieved a lot more than what we've managed to achieve within just a few hundred years of scientific advancement?

Personally, I don't think so.

I think there have been much advanced races of humans that had make great inventions on this planet (the likes of the Egyptian pyramids) whose inventions had been completely destroyed by climate change that led to the extinction of older species or moved to other planets for space colonization programs.

You can't know all the progress made in genetics, molecular biology in the last 100 years, especially in areas like breeding and cloning of animals and plants, and then rule out the possibility of intelligent design in the origin of life on this planet.

(I predict that our science will still develop a lot in the future to that point, though it could take hundreds of years.)

Keep in mind that recorded history doesn’t cover even 10% of the history of Earth, which has existed for about 4.5 billion years.

If there had been older species of humans that lived with a life span at least one thousand years and could transfer their knowledge to their descendants, then it's possible our (glorious) sciences are still primitive compared to theirs.

Then, we can't even rule out the possibility of some past beings not having an average lifespan of millions of years since we know little about our solar system and very little about our galaxy (the Milky Way), let alone the universe.

We've not even explored the whole of Earth.

That's why I urge people to approach scientific concepts and principles, including evolution, with an open mind and caution.

Workch:
no they cannot, a mole rat cannot mate with Norwegian rat, a whistar albino rat cannot mate with a mice. Their chromosomes do not pair.

A housecat cannot mate with a lion, a cheetah cannot mate with a Jaguar, they have different pairs of chromosome.
It's the same way a chimpanzee cannot mate with a gorilla, an orangutan cannot mate with humans. They are all apes with different pairs of chromsomes.

A swan cannot mate with domestic duck, a goose cannot mate with a swan. They are all Anatida

A bee cannot mate with a honnet, they are both Hymenoptera.

You need to unlearn that idea
You don't know what a specie is.
We have over 40 species of wolf today, they cannot mate with each other not to even asuume that a wolves mates with a domestic dog. They are not different breeds, they are different species.

A gray wolf in north america and Europe cannot mate with white wolves in Asia or Dholes in India. They are different species but they are all wolves. They have different scientific names in terms of species.

You need to learn this rightly but I understand what you man by breeds, you are just confusing breeds with Species.

Workch:
no they cannot, a mole rat cannot mate with Norwegian rat, a whistar albino rat cannot mate with a mice. Their chromosomes do not pair.

A housecat cannot mate with a lion, a cheetah cannot mate with a Jaguar, they have different pairs of chromosome.
It's the same way a chimpanzee cannot mate with a gorilla, an orangutan cannot mate with humans. They are all apes with different pairs of chromsomes.

A swan cannot mate with domestic duck, a goose cannot mate with a swan. They are all Anatida

A bee cannot mate with a honnet, they are both Hymenoptera.

You need to unlearn that idea
You don't know what a specie is.
We have over 40 species of wolf today, they cannot mate with each other not to even asuume that a wolf mates with a domestic dog. They are not different breeds, they are different species.

A gray wolf in north america and Europe cannot mate with white wolves in Asia or Dholes in India. They are different species but they are all wolves. They have different scientific names in terms of species.

You need to learn this rightly

seunH:
no they cannot, a mole rat cannot mate with Norwegian rat, a whistar albino rat cannot mate with a mice. Their chromosomes do not pair.

Let me lecture you a bit sir, because you're getting a little bit confused, with due respect.
A mole rat and a mice are called "rats' but that is not the speciation we are talking about in this context. The speciation in question here are the black rats, brown rats, albino rats, kangaroo rats, house rats etc Take note sir, these rats are genetically distinct, different "surnames" but can mate with each other hence that is what I'm talking about. When we say dogs in this context we don't mean dingos, wolves, foxes, coyotes etc we mean GSD, Great Danes, Bull mastiffs etc. So let's stay on course sir

seunH:
no they cannot, a mole rat cannot mate with Norwegian rat, a whistar albino rat cannot mate with a mice. Their chromosomes do not pair.

Let me lecture you a bit sir, because you're getting a little bit confused, with due respect.
A mole rat and a mice are called "rats' but that is not the speciation we are talking about in this context. The speciation in question here are the black rats, brown rats, albino rats, kangaroo rats, house rats etc Take note sir, these rats are genetically distinct, different "surnames" but can mate with each other hence that is what I'm talking about. When we say dogs in this context we don't mean dingos, wolves, foxes, coyotes etc we mean GSD, Great Danes, Bull mastiffs etc. So let's stay on course sir

Workch:
lol,
The scientific name of naked mole rat is Heterocephalus glaber with 60 chromosomes.
The scientific name of Norwegian brown rat is Rattus norvegicus with 22 chromosomes.


On what scientific basis do you expect them to mate? They are not even the same genus. "Rat" is not a species, it's probably a family of animals and not a species