₦airaland Forum

donstan18:
Trophies and achievements are the major metric in rating players. That’s a fact.

Now let’s leave these major things and use individual awards.

Can you help me with Oliseh’s individual awards?

Baba calm down. Oliseh is miles ahead of Mikel. Did you watch Oliseh play? Lol..

Can Mikel ball in Oliseh's era? I doubt it with the yam legs they all have back then...

andrewbaba44:
I have watched Olise

His football career was just too short to point out many things , nothing really serious .

Our players too get hype then expecially ndi 94

Something you must remember when assessing Oliseh post 2001 is this is a nigga that has finished University at Unilag, probably done NYSC before going to Europe to claim 19. Our players don't last long then cos VAT was too much on their age. Even Taribo West who PH boys in football circles know for playing football since 1980s and has been playing NPFL since 1989 will come and be claiming 22 years old in 1996 Olympics

Joezinho:
Baba calm down. Oliseh is miles ahead of Mikel. Did you watch Oliseh play? Lol..

Can Mikel ball in Oliseh's era? I doubt it with the yam legs they all have back then...

Bro what proof do you have that Mikel isn’t bigger, better and greater than Oliseh?

What are your points and metrics?

andrewbaba44:
I have watched Olise

His football career was just too short to point out many things , nothing really serious .

Our players too get hype then expecially ndi 94

. Baba shun, Oliseh balled. Oliseh hardly put a foot wrong when playing.. He always puts up what must go down as a masterclass on defensive midfield play. His every touch and move were flawless..

Mikel no even dey my top 3 best Nigeria all time DMs..

Oliseh Sunday,Muda Lawal,Christian Madu, Mutiu Adepoju and then Mikel Obi..

hensben:
They are still in that early 2000s euphoria of Arsenal is better than Chelsea so anything from Chelsea is inferior whether good or not but reality have left them behind.

Just wait for another day when Chelsea player or legend gets compared to other player, wait and watch how they’ll jump and start crying.



Reality and facts>>>>

Ibime:
Something you must remember when assessing Oliseh post 2001 is this is a nigga that has finished University at Unilag, probably done NYSC before going to Europe to claim 19. Our players don't last long then cos VAT was too much on their age. Even Taribo West who PH boys in football circles know for playing football since 1980s and has been playing NPFL since 1989 will come and be claiming 22 years old in 1996 Olympics

Mehn ,Olise and co age cheat madt be that ,baba go don commot nothing less than 15 years for him age

I understand sha ,life no easy and to Make it to the top in football is so hard

Taribo west remains one of the biggest age cheat in world football ,man was a world class player but age no allow am enjoy top football for long

donstan18:
Bro what proof do you have that Mikel isn’t bigger, better and greater than Oliseh?

What are your points and metrics?

* Who is the better athlete? Oliseh..
* Better leader on the field? I will say Oliseh again, he just brings so much physicality and energy...
* Better passer? Tie here with slight edge to Mikel.
* Better shooter? Oliseh..
* Better dribbler? Mikel...
* Prototype midfield physique? Oliseh..
* Better ball skill? Oliseh..
* Better sprinter/cover space on the field? Oliseh..
* Someone that can carry a team down on his shoulder? Mikel...
* Better offensive threat? Oliseh..
* Pound for pound better footballer in a heated contest? Tie.
* Better header of the ball? Tie..

I give the edge to Oliseh..

Joezinho:
Lol. Very soon Andrew will tell us Yobo is better than Keshi.

That one is still very debatable. Yobo was a regular starter in Europe unlike Mikel the eternal bench man. Keshi also did not see success with Super Eagles till 1994. Uche Okafor actually displaced Keshi in AFCON final while Chidi Nwanu was brought in for World Cup to partner Okechukwu. By 1994, Keshi was more like Ahmed Musa is today, a senior man supporting the team from the bench and playing sometimes.

Joezinho:
* Who is the better athlete? Oliseh..
* Better leader on the field? I will say Oliseh again, he just brings so much physicality and energy...
* Better passer? Tie here with slight edge to Mikel.
* Better shooter? Oliseh..
* Better dribbler? Mikel...
* Prototype midfield physique? Oliseh..
* Better ball skill? Oliseh..
* Better sprinter/cover space on the field? Oliseh..
* Someone that can carry a team down on his shoulder? Mikel...
* Better offensive threat? Oliseh..
* Pound for pound better footballer in a heated contest? Tie.
* Better header of the ball? Tie..

I give the edge to Oliseh..

Guy wetin be this?

Can’t you see you’re finding difficult to make case for Oliseh here?

So if asked about Gerard and Rooney, na these things you go pull out? What do you people gain running from the truth? Just look at what you’re listing?

Which one be “Best sprinter”?

Ibime:
That one is still very debatable. Yobo was a regular starter in Europe unlike Mikel the eternal bench man. Keshi also did not see success with Super Eagles till 1994. Uche Okafor actually displaced Keshi in AFCON final while Chidi Nwanu was brought in for World Cup to partner Okechukwu. By 1994, Keshi was more like Ahmed Musa is today, a senior man supporting the team from the bench and playing sometimes.

Which is exactly what Yobo was after AFCON 2010
In 2013 our Starting CBS were Godfrey Oboabona and Kenneth Omeruo I think.

timbros:
Lol this this CAF TOTT in 1994. What are you saying?

Though the list does exist, his point of not comparing eras based on Wikipedia still stands. Nobody who watched the tournament will not put Oliseh as one of the first names on the list with Yekini, Elijah Litana, Joel Tiehi, Kalusha Bwalya and Ben Iroha. These were by far the 6 standout players in that tournament, with Koulibaly of Mali probably being squeezed out by Tiehi and Yekini in the striker spots.

The list is rubbished by the presence of Abedi Pele who did little and was knocked out in QF (Senior man award), the shoehorning of Amokachi in midfield (played as striker with zero goals and zero assists). Even Okocha inclusion is highly dubious as he wasn't a guaranteed starter though his only goal contribution of the tournament which was a beautiful double one-two assist for Iroha against Ivory Coast may give him a spot based on the wowness of that goal alone. So what this tells you is that was a time when DM work was not respected and they try to fit in as many forwards as possible to the TOTT. Pirlo performance in Euro 2012 gave value to the DM putting long balls to striker when it came to awards. Oliseh showed us that repeatedly in 1994 but it was barely noticed. If such performance is repeated today, Oliseh will not only enter TOTT but will win POTT outright. This is an example of the difference between what different eras give honour to that make Wikipedia comparisons across eras a foolish exercise.

Ibime:
I no send either of them to be honest, but at leas Kounde get speed. Kounde will be good in a 3 man defence, the wahala with his height will become noticeable if we switch to back 4

Kounde good for air na, Has a really good jump reach for a short CB, Also he and Diego Carlos last season conceded the fewest goals in la liga, Na their frontmen fúck them up

Joezinho:
Lol. Very soon Andrew will tell us Yobo is better than Keshi.

Yobo remains one of the best Africans to grace the epl for your info

Maybe you must be mistaking yobo for Joseph enakarhire

andrewbaba44:
Mehn ,Olise and co age cheat madt be that ,baba go don commot nothing less than 15 years for him age

I understand sha ,life no easy and to Make it to the top in football is so hard

Taribo west remains one of the biggest age cheat in world football ,man was a world class player but age no allow am enjoy top football for long

Age gap then can be 5 to 12 years sef. They didn't have academies like now which have reduced the age gap a bit. Players like Olofinjana, Oliseh, Enyeama had fully finished University, even NYSC before going to Europe to claim a different age. Likes of Aghahowa was a Policeman and Yakubu was a painter before even entering Naija league for 2 or 3 years and then traveling abroad to claim 17. Others have been around Niaja league for 5 to 7 years before going for under-17 trials. Man must feed his family.

Ibime:
Something you must remember when assessing Oliseh post 2001 is this is a nigga that has finished University at Unilag, probably done NYSC before going to Europe to claim 19. Our players don't last long then cos VAT was too much on their age. Even Taribo West who PH boys in football circles know for playing football since 1980s and has been playing NPFL since 1989 will come and be claiming 22 years old in 1996 Olympics

The 1994 eagles were serial age cheats...

Austin Eguavoen - 28years..
Benedict Iroha -- 24years..
Uche Okechukwu -- 26years..
Chidi Nwanu -- 26years..
Finidi George -- 23years..
JJ okocha -- 20years...
Daniel Amokachi -- 21years..
Emmanuel Amuneke -- 23years..
Sunday Oliseh -- 19years..
Victor Ikpeba -- 21years..
Mutiu Adepoju --23years..

Omo, these baba nlas did severe VATS on their ages..

andrewbaba44:
Yobo remains one of the best Africans to grace the epl for your info

Maybe you must be mistaking yobo for Joseph enakarhire

So yobo is better than Stephen Keshi?

donstan18:
Guy wetin be this?

Can’t you see you’re finding difficult to make case for Oliseh here?

So if asked about Gerard and Rooney, na these things you go pull out? What do you people gain running from the truth? Just look at what you’re listing?

Which one be “Best sprinter”?

E come be like say na Michael Phelps stats I Dey read.

Ibime:
That one is still very debatable. Yobo was a regular starter in Europe unlike Mikel the eternal bench man. Keshi also did not see success with Super Eagles till 1994. Uche Okafor actually displaced Keshi in AFCON final while Chidi Nwanu was brought in for World Cup to partner Okechukwu. By 1994, Keshi was more like Ahmed Musa is today, a senior man supporting the team from the bench and playing sometimes.

Boss,Keshi is greater. Although Yobo is Nigeria's Mr consistent, he can never overtake Keshi.. The very best captain ever for the Eagles was Keshi.. People like him come once in a blue moon. We were lucky and privileged to have had him as captain for the super Eagles..

Christian Chukwu, Stephen Keshi, Taribo West before Joseph Yobo...

timbros:
Lol this this CAF TOTT in 1994. What are you saying?

Jodera you have been bursted.

donstan18:
Guy wetin be this?

Can’t you see you’re finding difficult to make case for Oliseh here?

So if asked about Gerard and Rooney, na these things you go pull out? What do you people gain running from the truth? Just look at what you’re listing?

Which one be “Best sprinter”?

Which metrics do you want? Trophies won? That is a collective team effort..

Or you want to use UCL to measure?

andrewbaba44:
An afcon winner that year ,take note .

your point??..

Joezinho:
Which metrics do you want? Trophies won? That is a collective team effort..

Or you want to use UCL to measure?

Trophies
Achievements
Success
Individual awards and recognitions
European, league and national recognition and achievements.

Mikel will top Oliseh in all.

These are metric to rate players. Anything aside these things comes from a place of sentiment and that’s fact.

Ibime:
Age gap then can be 5 to 12 years sef. They didn't have academies like now which have reduced the age gap a bit. Players like Olofinjana, Oliseh, Enyeama had fully finished University, even NYSC before going to Europe to claim a different age. Likes of Aghahowa was a Policeman and Yakubu was a painter before even entering Naija league for 2 or 3 years and then traveling abroad to claim 17. Others have been around Niaja league for 5 to 7 years before going for under-17 trials. Man must feed his family.

I remember reading an article in 2001 about how angry Osaze Odemwengie a player playing for Bendel insurance back then felt when coach Musa Abdullahi dropped him from the U17 world cup squad..

Fast forward to 2010,during my 3rd year in the university, I became UNN's director of Sports and was doing an article about him...Was shocked when I checked his wikipage, baba na 20 years as at 2001.

hensben:
E come be like say na Michael Phelps stats I Dey read.

That’s what happens even you try to make case for a failed footballer with overhyped fluke long shot against Spain in 1998.

donstan18:
That’s what happens even you try to make case for a failed footballer with overhyped fluke long shot against Spain in 1998.

This man ..

Unlimited22:

Bole dey carry una dey go una husband house.

The funny thing about this argument is that the question indicated a clause - as a DM.

Mikel played DM for Chelsea but mostly played CM and sometimes even AM for Nigeria.
I didn't watch Oliseh myself but I posed this question to people who've watched all three and the answer is unanimous.

NOTE that I like Mikel, I think he's underrated and I no follow Ibime dey slander am, but of all the older guys I've asked, no one has elected to start anyone else.

Joezinho:
I remember reading an article in 2001 about how angry Osaze Odemwengie a player playing for Bendel insurance back then felt when coach Musa Abdullahi dropped him from the U17 world cup squad..

Fast forward to 2010,during my 3rd year in the university, I became UNN's director of Sports and was doing an article about him...Was shocked when I checked his wikipage, baba na 20 years as at 2001.

Him own good sef, he was born in Uzbekistan in the former USSR.

If you want to see the godfathers of age cheating, check out the late Yemi Tella and his U17 world cup winners of 2007. Macauley Chrisantus, Yakubu Alfa and Kabiru Akinsola them.

Unlimited22:
Him own good sef, he was born in Uzbekistan in the former USSR.

If you want to see the godfathers of age cheating, check out the late Yemi Tella and his U17 world cup winners of 2007. Macauley Chrisantus, Yakubu Alfa and Kabiru Akinsola them.

Boss, na Macaulay own shock me. Watching the 2007 U17 world cup dey so obvious say na men Yemi Tella carry go the world cup.

Macaulay wan kill him son agemates.

See how young Bojan and Toni kroos look..

Joezinho:
I remember reading an article in 2001 about how angry Osaze Odemwengie a player playing for Bendel insurance back then felt when coach Musa Abdullahi dropped him from the U17 world cup squad..

Fast forward to 2010,during my 3rd year in the university, I became UNN's director of Sports and was doing an article about him...Was shocked when I checked his wikipage, baba na 20 years as at 2001.

lol. Baba would have had to wipe out his records from Russia and Uzbekistan to enter Under-17 then. Niggas real age was known in CSKA Academy. He ended up using his real age sha.

The only niggas in that set that used something close to their true age were Osaze, George Abbey and Joseph Yobo. Yobo only cut his age by 2 or 3 years cos he is roughly the same age as George Abbey who he grew up with and who used his real age to travel to Europe on his mother's British passport. On official documents, Abbey senior Yobo with only 2 years which means Yobo did not cut too much.

Chief to be factual Mikel's stats in the national team are also as good as that of Oliseh. Obi dropped 4 assists in the 2013 AFCON in addition to one lovely pre-assist against Burkina Faso in the group stages. Mikel qualified Nigeria for every single world cup that he was involved in.

Yes Mikel didn't do as much as he could have done with the national team but consider the caliber of players Obi had to mention compared to the great talents Sunday worked. It will be easier to get more assists when you're playing with the likes of Yekini, Amokachi, JJ, Finidi than Brown Ideye, gabriel rueben, sani kaita etc.

Club football yes Oliseh tried but it wasn't all rosy. He was a permanent bench warmer in Juventus, played for Ajax that dominated a farmer's dutch league. His time in Dortmund was here and there plus Borussia was in decline when he was with them.

Mikel had world class competition in Lampard, Ballack, Kante, Essien and yet was able to enjoy a fruitful career with Chelsea. Considering that he didn't start out as a DM I think Mikel deserves his flowers.

For the record I also agree Oliseh was the better player but I disagree that Mikel was a mug.

Ibime:
You might as well tell me Ikpeba is greater than Yekini. Run to Wikipedia and pull up Ikpeba trophies won in Europe.

Oliseh record and performance with Super Eagles far far outmatches anything Mikel can bring to the table.

Oliseh never failed to qualify Super Eagles to AFCON like Obi did TWICE. Oliseh never failed to qualify Super Eagles to World Cup like Obi did TWICE. Oliseh never failed to take Super Eagles out of World Cup group stage like Obi did TWICE. Oliseh never failed to make AFCON final like Obi did 6 times. Oliseh won the Olympics against more or less the same Brazil team that won the 2002 World Cup.

Arrogance of talking about something you never saw is not a good trait in a man. It's ego speaking.