₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus have no business with individuals but the church, that's what i'm emphasizing, you can't have a personal relationship with Christ rather Christ acknowledge you because you're a member of his group who are bearing witness to his name.
That's why he said:

"For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there I am in their midst.” Matthew 18:20

Which means Jesus has no personal relationship with anybody he only comes around when the group are gathered to do the job he assigned them, because he's the one who will lead them by means of Holy Spirit in accomplishing it. Matthew 28:20

That's what we're saying Sir, i'm not disputing that Christ is the saviour but he only act on behalf of his congregation as a body whatever you're planning if it's not about the Church and the preaching and teaching campaign Jesus assigned to them then it's none of Jesus' concern!

So Jesus is not interested in us as individuals, is that what you're saying?
I find this hard to accept Sir, it's strange and absurd to all the tenets of Christology and the entire Christian Congregation.
Haven't you read of Christ rewarding his faithful followers individually "to him who conquers I shall give him the crown of life".
Our salvation is personal not universal.
The Jews were mistaken thinking they only have salvation because the worship at the temple and followed the strict law code.
But Peter soon realized this: "“Truly I understand that God SHOWS no PARTIALITY,but in every nation ANYONE who FEARS HIM and DOES WHAT IS RIGHT IS ACCEPTABLE to HIM"
Come to think of it Cornelius was not yet a Christian but he was known as a good man, God's angel even appeared to him while he was praying for help.
If Christ is not interested in individuals as you said, why did he have to send Apostle Peter to get in touch with Cornelius?

peggywebbs:
You're lazy.. don't blame me for that. I read and I don't have any responsibility to share my knowledge with you.

You're pissed for some reason I don't understand. I only asked you to further your research. I am reading other topics at the moment and I have no intention on trying to teach anybody anything. Unless you're not educated and I can understand that. The Bible is not that complex and if you want to have more understanding, you must be ready to do the work.

Nagging me on nairaland won't provoke me to argue with you or give you some revelation. I don't believe in exam malpractice, I never cheated my way to get to my position. So I won't encourage laziness.
Because I'm nice, I'll give you a hint on why prophecies are meant to be interpreted and not taken literally. For instance in Nehum 2:4

Chariots dash wildly through the streets, rushing to and fro through the city squares. They flash like torches and dart about like lightning.
Nahum 2:4 GNBDK

https://bible.com/bible/431/nam.2.4.GNBDK

If I were to give your interpretation, I'd have said the Prophet was talking about horses. No, the time he wrote this, cars were not even dreamt of. But this was the old testament and this man who had never seen an engine in his life or even a light bulb.. describe a busy street with many cars on wheels and headlamps on traffic.

Again, let me repeat myself, go and read a book and stop being lazy. It's not easy to be an atheist, you have to do the work. Convince yourself there is no God by reading books and not antagonising Christians online. You're just making mockery of yourself and exposing your ignorance.

You took the scripture out of context
Please read from the first verse

The revelation event all happened till the year seventy when the Roman Emperor Pompeii marched on Jerusalem and the Temple in Jerusalem and there was a big war between the Jews and the Romans. The Jews saw this war as the end of days. No New Testament Christains till after the year seventy and this was all made up to make the Jews and other nations conquered to become gentle and not to wage war like the Jews did before the Temple was destroyed. Only a Good Merciful God in the Old Testament is the true way to GOD.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF5j0URuTMs

OgaNightmare:
So Jesus is not interested in us as individuals, is that what you're saying?
I find this hard to accept Sir, it's strange and absurd to all the tenets of Christology and the entire Christian Congregation.
Haven't you read of Christ rewarding his faithful followers individually "to him who conquers I shall give him the crown of life".
Our salvation is personal not universal.
The Jews were mistaken thinking they only have salvation because the worship at the temple and followed the strict law code.
But Peter soon realized this: "“Truly I understand that God SHOWS no PARTIALITY,but in every nation ANYONE who FEARS HIM and DOES WHAT IS RIGHT IS ACCEPTABLE to HIM"
Come to think of it Cornelius was not yet a Christian but he was known as a good man, God's angel even appeared to him while he was praying for help.
If Christ is not interested in individuals as you said, why did he have to send Apostle Peter to get in touch with Cornelius?

Now there was a man in Caes·a·reʹa named Cornelius, an army officer in what was called the Italian unit. He was a devout man who feared God together with all his household, and he made many gifts of mercy to the people and made supplication to God continually. Act 10:1-2

This man though pagan already has fear of God {Romans 2:14-15} and praying to God for blessings not riches he's already well to do. So he's seeking a PERSONAL relationship with his Creator not Christ because he doesn't know any Christ. That's what Jesus meant when he said:

No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him, and I will resurrect him on the last day. John 6:44

It was Cornelius' hunger for the righteousness of God {Matthew 5:6} that made God directed members of Jesus' group to teach him what Jesus commanded {Matthew 28:20} if he accepted Jesus' teachings then he must become submissive to those taking the lead {Hebrews 13:7} because it's by doing so that they can lay hands on him {Act 8:14-17} and pray for him so that his sins could be forgiven him! James 5:14-15

So he must continue with Jesus' GROUP that's devoting themselves to the teachings of the Apostles {Act 2:42} because Jesus has given them the authority that whatever they bind or loosen on earth the heavens will grant it! Matthew 16:19

Jesus will start to acknowledge Cornelius after he has accepted to become submissive to the same line of thought GOVERNING Jesus' group! John 17:20-23; 1Corinthians 1:10

In the absence of that Jesus has no business with him! Luke 9:62

Satan is the god of confusion {2 Corinthians 4:4} who initiated different sects all claiming denominations in Christendom {Matthew 13:25} with contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines all in the name of Jesus so that you will see lots of people claiming born again Christians yet there's no principle guiding them as one, they're scattered spiritually in their teachings {Luke 11:23} then they can easily switch from one religion to another after commiting grievous sins and yet claiming they're Christians since there's no disciplinary actions! 1Corinthians 5:11-13

But in Jesus' own group all of us must walk on the same path there's no switching lanes {Matthew 7:13-14} that is how each believer can be readjusted to comply with Christ's teachings. Hebrews 13:7, 17

As for all those claiming Christians but aren't doing this Jesus will deny them because they're lawless! Matthew 7:21-23

OgaNightmare:
Which exegetical commentary or theological book are you using?
You have a lot of valuable info up there.
I'm intrigued totally different explanation of that prophecy, compared to the ones I've heard and read.

the Bible and historical records.

OgaNightmare:
I will look further into this since I'm a good student of history. Your argument was sound and based on real historical events that I know . Nonetheless it is still open to debate

yes it is open to debate, if you don't find anything accurate.

emmanueloti65:
the Bible and historical records.

It can't just be the Bible and historical records many scholars have those two things but still come up with absurd interpretations of that prophecy.
The reason why I asked is that your own was more coherent than the rest and connected the historical events accurately

OgaNightmare:
It can't just be the Bible and historical records many scholars have those two things but still come up with absurd interpretations of that prophecy.
The reason why I asked is that your own was more coherent than the rest and connected the historical events accurately

I did research, the Bible is a book of history on it own. all I did was try to connect historical records with what the Bible says and I was blown. I have no particular book I can recommend to you , but you can use Google to research this and find out the same thing I am telling you. you will discover things they hardly tell you in history class.

but I can recommend a book that proves even further that the Vatican runs the world. after reading that book your eyes will be open

emmanueloti65:
I did research, the Bible is a book of history on it own. all I did was try to connect historical records with what the Bible says and I was blown. I have no particular book I can recommend to you , but you can use Google to research this and find out the same thing I am telling you. you will discover things they hardly tell you in history class.

but I can recommend a book that proves even further that the Vatican runs the world. after reading that book your eyes will be open

The title of the book

OgaNightmare:
The title of the book

it focuses more on how the Vatican virtually or actually created the United States of America and uses it as it's sword arm. the title is "rulers of evil" by Frederick Tupper saussy.

you can even search for a PDF version of it in Google and start from their.

emmanueloti65:
1. Rome scattered into 10 kingdoms represented by the ten toes, not two kingdoms. another symbological representation of this prophesy is in Daniel 7 where the kingdoms are represented as beast and the foruth beast which is Rome had ten horns and among these ten horns or kingdoms came up a little horn or kingdom with the eyes and mouth of a man and uprooted three. this prophecy of a little horn only fits the Vatican city state because it was the last and smallest kingdom that came up after the ten kingdom that broke out of Rome these ten kingdoms are;

The kingdom of the Suevians today portugal
The kingdom of the Visigoths today spain
The kingdom of the Alamini today germany
The kingdom of the Burgundians today switzerland
The kingdom of the Franks today france
The kingdom Anglo-Saxon today england
The kingdom of the lombards today italy
the kingdom of the heruli- eliminated
the kingdom of the osthrogoths - eliminated
the kingdom of the vandals - eliminated.

2. the Vatican city state was the last to come come up after these and it is represented by the little but stout horn with eyes and mouth of a man, this same horn which speaks blasphemy against God and persecutes Gods people as described in Daniel 7 fits only the Roman church , not England and America. go read foxes book of mathyrs to get a clue of the atrocities of the Roman church.

3. And also it is quit evident that the emperors of the political Roman kingdom gave authority to the church as the ancient Roman kingdom was falling apart. so the people who carried on from the Roman emperors was the Roman church. speaking technically Rome never fell it only methamorphorsed. that system stil continues till this day . the empire today is not just in Europe but the entire world.

1. Are you certain your assessment is what is in fact written in Daniel 7? Maybe you should read it again.

7 “After that, in my vision at night, I looked, and there in front of me was a fourth animal. It looked very cruel and terrifying. It looked very strong, with large iron teeth. This animal crushed and ate its victims and walked on whatever was left of them. This fourth animal was different from all the animals I saw before it. This animal had ten horns.
8 “While I was looking at the horns and thinking about them, another horn grew up among them. This was a little horn with eyes like a human. It also had a mouth that was bragging. Then the little horn pulled out three of the other horns. - Daniel 7 vs 7 - 8

The explanation given of the fourth animal says nothing of the kingdom it represents being divided into 10 parts. Instead, it speaks of 10 kings that will rule in succession in the 4th kingdom, with the 11th king being the one who rises at the time that 3 other kings are taken out.

23 “And he explained this to me: ‘The fourth animal is a fourth kingdom that will come on the earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms. That fourth kingdom will destroy people all around the world. It will walk on and crush nations all around the world.
24 The ten horns are ten kings that will come from this fourth kingdom. After those ten kings are gone, another king will come. He will be different from the kings who ruled before him. He will defeat three of the other kings.
25 This special king will say things against God Most High, and he will hurt and kill God’s special people. That king will try to change the times and laws that have already been set. God’s holy people will be under that king’s power for three and one-half years.
26 “‘But the court will decide what should happen, and that king’s power will be taken away. His kingdom will end completely.
27 Then God’s holy people will rule over the kingdom and all the people from all the kingdoms of earth. This kingdom will last forever, and people from all the other kingdoms will respect and serve them.’
28 “And that was the end of the dream. I, Daniel, was very afraid. My face became very white from fear, and I did not tell the other people what I saw and heard.” - Daniel 7 vs 23 - 28

2 & 3. Your claims do not follow what is in fact written in the same chapter of Daniel 7

11 “I kept on looking because the little horn was bragging. I kept watching until finally the fourth animal was killed. Its body was destroyed, and it was thrown into the burning fire.
12 The authority and rule of the other animals had been taken from them. But they were permitted to live for a certain period of time.
13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there in front of me was someone who looked like a human being. He was coming on the clouds in the sky. He came up to the Ancient King, and the King’s servants brought him before the King.
14 “The one who looked like a human being was given authority, glory, and complete ruling power. People from every nation and language group will serve him. His rule will last forever. His kingdom will continue forever. It will never be destroyed. - Daniel 7 vs 11 - 14

According to the above passage, the 4th Kingdom/beast was destroyed, meaning it ceased. This while the other kingdoms continued to exist, but all their authority and rule over others were taken away from them.

Kobojunkie:
1. Are you certain your assessment is what is in fact written in Daniel 7? Maybe you should read it again.

100% if you doubt tell me why?

Kobojunkie:
The explanation given of the fourth animal says nothing of the kingdom it represents being divided into 10 parts. Instead, it speaks of 10 kings that will rule in succession in the 4th kingdom, with the 11th king being the one who rises at the time that 3 other kings are taken out. ten horns arose out of the fourth beast.

horn in this Bible prophecy represents kings, kings have kingdoms that is common sense. Daniel 2: 41 makes it clear that the fourth kingdom was DIVIDED meaning they existed separately and simultaneously. this kingdoms was not succeeding each other but existed independently. also out of the fourth beast came out ten horns, these horns represents ten kings or kingdom. so you are wrong my friend.

Kobojunkie:
2 & 3. Your claims do not follow what is in fact written in the same chapter of Daniel 7
According to the above passage, the 4th Kingdom/beast was destroyed, meaning it ceased. This while the other kingdoms continued to exist, but all their authority and rule over others were taken away from them.

very very good . now this goes even further to prove what I said that Rome still rules till this day.

you have to understand biblical language. the four kingdoms ruled in succession of each other . these four kingdoms are Babylon, medo-persia, Greece and Rome being the last and we know for a fact that in history that Babylon, medo-persia Greece were not in power when Rome ruled as world power. the fourth kingdom is the last kingdom that will be destroyed by Christ himself. this does not mean that the other kingdoms continued after it was destroyed. remember Daniel said to the king Nebuchadnezzar that "he was the head of gold and after you will come another inferior to you" in the image that represents the world powers that will succeed one another.

the fourth kingdom was the primary focus of the prophecy that is why more details was given about it. but after that, Daniel turned his focus on the other kingdoms that came before the fourth kingdom and explained that these kingdoms had their dominion taken away i.e they succeeded each other and ruled for somtime ( before the existence of the fourth kingdom). this is because these kingdoms rulership came to an wnd by the hands of men but the end of the fourth kingdom came by the hand of God not men.

emmanueloti65:
1.100% if you doubt tell me why?

2. horn in this Bible prophecy represents kings, kings have kingdoms that is common sense. Daniel 2: 41 makes it clear that the fourth kingdom was DIVIDED meaning they existed separately and simultaneously. this kingdoms was not succeeding each other but existed independently. also out of the fourth beast came out ten horns, these horns represents ten kings or kingdom. so you are wrong my friend.

3. very very good . now this goes even further to prove what I said that Rome still rules till this day. you have to understand biblical language. the four kingdoms ruled in succession of each other . these four kingdoms are Babylon, medo-persia, Greece and Rome being the last and we know for a fact that in history that Babylon, medo-persia Greece were not in power when Rome ruled as world power. the fourth kingdom is the last kingdom that will be destroyed by Christ himself. this does not mean that the other kingdoms continued after it was destroyed. remember Daniel said to the king Nebuchadnezzar that "he was the head of gold and after you will come another inferior to you" in the image that represents the world powers that will succeed one another.

4. the fourth kingdom was the primary focus of the prophecy that is why more details was given about it. but after that, Daniel turned his focus on the other kingdoms that came before the fourth kingdom and explained that these kingdoms had their dominion taken away i.e they succeeded each other and ruled for somtime ( before the existence of the fourth kingdom). this is because these kingdoms rulership came to an wnd by the hands of men but the end of the fourth kingdom came by the hand of God not men.

1. Because you assessment of what is written is completely off.

2. Forget the soundbite doctrines informing you of what horns represent and pay attention instead to what is in fact written. In Daniel 2 for instance, you are told that the Fourth Kingdom is divided because the people of the Kingdom did not exist as a united entity. So, it was never the case that the Fourth Kingdom consisted instead of several different kingdoms, but instead that the Fourth Kingdom, the unit that it was, had a people divided amongst themselves.

41 “You saw that the feet and toes of the statue were partly clay and partly iron. That means the fourth kingdom will be a divided kingdom. It will have some of the strength of iron in it just as you saw the iron mixed with clay.
42 The toes of the statue were partly iron and partly clay. So the fourth kingdom will be partly strong like iron and partly weak like clay.
43 You saw the iron mixed with clay, but iron and clay don’t completely mix together. In the same way the people of the fourth kingdom will be a mixture. They will not be united as one people.
44 “During the time of the kings of the fourth kingdom, the God of heaven will set up another kingdom that will continue forever. It will never be destroyed. And it will be the kind of kingdom that cannot be passed on to another group of people. This kingdom will crush all the other kingdoms. It will bring them to an end, but that kingdom itself will continue forever. - Daniel 2 vs 41 - 44

So when the rock was thrown at the weakness that was the division between the peoples of the Fourth Kingdom, it brought down, not only the Fourth Kingdom but all the 4 Kingdoms combined. Can you guess what that rock is - the rock that became a mountain that covered the whole earth?

What is even more fascinating is that right there in Daniel 2 vs 44 is revealed the identity of the 10 Kings/horns of Daniel 7. They are the 10 kings that existed from before the birth of Jesus Christ through to the approximate time the first Christians/apostles were all killed off(or maybe afterwards), this is the period during which God is said to have set up His everlasting Kingdom, according to verse 44. Can you guess now what the everlasting Kingdom God set up during the time of the 10 Kings is?

3. The Fourth Kingdom seized to exist when the roman Empire lost its place and was split up into other Nations, almost 1500 years ago. September 4, 476 AD to be exact. There is no longer a roman empire or power. What instead exists is a small country called Italy with Rome as its capital city.

4. We pretty much know what the fourth kingdom was. it no longer exists today and, we also know the identity of all 10 kings that were pointed out in that Prophesy. Another thing we know is the identity of the other 3 kingdoms, some of which continue to exist to this day.

Go back through the 2 chapters - Daniel 2 and Daniel 7 - , forgetting all the soundbites you have previously been taught regarding prophesy and trying to see for yourself that the prophecy has already taken place. Nebuchadnezzar's dream has come to pass.

emmanueloti65:
the mods deleted my first reply and banned my account. but I will try to respond again.

"See, sir, from this chamber I govern not
only to Paris, but to China, not only to
China, but to all the world, without any
one to know how I do it "
---Michaelangelo Tamburini
14th Jesuit General ,
1706-1739
the above is a statement from a Jesuit general hundreds of years ago.

Bro Rome lost its power in 1798 when napoleon conquered it and lmprisoned pope pius till his death.

OJODEL10:
All may be takin place in our time

Who told you that?

emmanueloti65:
Mr you seem not to know what your talking about. study the Bible pls stop following Jehovah's witness doctrines verbatim. the feet of iron and clay is made up of ten kingdoms that broke out of Rome which is the fourth kingdom. Daniel 2:41 made it clear that the feet of iron and clay is the fourth kingdom that shall be divided.

go and study your Bible instead of arguing want you don't know.

In Daniel 2, you are instead told that the people of the Fourth kingdom were divided amongst themselves, not that the Kingdom itself was split up into 10 other kingdoms. That's what the feet made of both clay and iron represent, the Fourth Kingdom's weakness which is that its people were not united on any front except that they existed as one Kingdom.

Kobojunkie:
In Daniel 2, you are instead told that the people of the Fourth kingdom were divided amongst themselves, not that the Kingdom itself was split up into 10 other kingdoms. That's what the feet made of both clay and iron represent, the Fourth Kingdom's weakness which is that its people were not united on any front except that they existed as one Kingdom.

you are wasting my time. do you want to make reasonable argument or you just want to confuse yourself? Daniel 2:41 makes it clear that the kingdom shall be divided. it never said they will remain as one kingdom and this is evidenced by history. Daniel 8:8 also said the same thing about the kingdom Greece dividing into four kingdoms symbolised by four horns, and this is also evidenced by history. because history has it that after the death of Alexander his four generals took over and divided his empire , these generals are Lysimachus, Cassander, Ptolemy and seleucus. this is historical fact. so you can see that horns in Bible prophecy represent kings and kingdoms.

how ever if you can prove whatever you say with historical fact then I will take you serious but for now you are not serious.

43Ronin:
Bro Rome lost its power in 1798 when napoleon conquered it and lmprisoned pope pius till his death.

yes this is correct. but Rome was also behind the arrest and imprisonment of the pope . let me expalain;. the Jesuits were the power behind Napoleon. in 1773 when pope Clement disbanded the Jesuits , some of them ran off to the island of Corsica where they found a little boy by the name of napoleon. it was the Jesuits who tutored Napoleon and made him what he became. Napoleon was simply a tool of the Jesuit order.

he was used by the Jesuit to cause the French Revolution. by 1798 when pope Clement refused to re-establish the Jesuit order , the Jesuits used Napoleon to capture and imprison the pope till he died in captivity. and the new pope re-established the Jesuit order in 1814.

this is a famouse quote from Napoleon about the Jesuits.

""The Jesuits are a MILITARY organization, not a religious
order. Their chief is a general of an army, not the mere
father abbot of a monastery. And the aim of this
organization is power - power in its most despotic
exercise - absolute power, universal power, power to
control the world by the volition of a single man.
Jesuitism is the most absolute of despotisms - and at the
same time the greatest and most enormous of abuses.""
--- Napoleon Bonaparte


ever since then the Jesuits have been working under ground to bring back the Vatican into full political prominence and this was fulfilled in 1929 when Benito Mussolini signed a concordant known as the Lateran treaty establishing the Vatican as a political entity.

all this events where prophecied in the book of revelation 13 ,about the beast that rose out of the sea and had a wound on one of its head but the wound was healed. this wound happend in 1798 with Napoleon taking the Roman church out of political prominence but was healed in 1929 when the Vatican came back into politics.

Kobojunkie:
1. Because you assessment of what is written is completely off.

that is because you can't understand simple things.

Kobojunkie:
2. Forget the soundbite doctrines informing you of what horns represent and pay attention instead to what is in fact written. In Daniel 2 for instance, you are told that the Fourth Kingdom is divided because the people of the Kingdom did not exist as a united entity. So, it was never the case that the Fourth Kingdom consisted instead of several different kingdoms, but instead that the Fourth Kingdom, the unit that it was, had a people divided amongst themselves.

ancient Rome was an empire that consisted of several tongues and races. after the fall of the Roman empire these tongues and races split from the Roman kingdom and formed their own kingdom with their own kings. what is difficult to understand here. if the is the case as history has proved , then it is common sense to know that these kingdom that split from the Roman empire are not as United as they where when they were under the Roman empire. common sense!!

Kobojunkie:
So when the rock was thrown at the weakness that was the division between the peoples of the Fourth Kingdom, it brought down, not only the Fourth Kingdom but all the 4 Kingdoms combined. Can you guess what that rock is - the rock that became a mountain that covered the whole earth?

the rock in this case is the "rock of ages" who is Jesus Christ . because you don't know the Bible you don't know this. when Jesus finally ends the fourth kingdom who is ruling the world now , then all form of rulership or government by man will end with it simple!!!!

Kobojunkie:
What is even more fascinating is that right there in Daniel 2 vs 44 is revealed the identity of the 10 Kings/horns of Daniel 7. They are the 10 kings that existed from before the birth of Jesus Christ through to the approximate time the first Christians/apostles were all killed off(or maybe afterwards), this is the period during which God is said to have set up His everlasting Kingdom, according to verse 44. Can you guess now what the everlasting Kingdom God set up during the time of the 10 Kings is?

Rome is the fourth kingdom and if that is the case then Rome was still intact as at when Christ was born and when the first apostles were killed off. history proves me right. your re wasting my time. these 10 kingdoms are existing now and will come to an end when Christ comes back to destroye the current government and establish his own. that is when the everlasting kingdom will be established.

Kobojunkie:
3. the Fourth Kingdom seized to exist when the roman Empire lost its place and was split up into other Nations, almost 1500 years ago. September 4, 476 AD to be exact. There is no longer a roman empire or power. What instead exists is a small country called Italy with Rome as its capital city.

Rome as a political entity ceased to exist but continued as are a religious entity when Constantine left Rome and gave his sit and authority to the Roman church. it is also evident from history that the Catholic church came into political power in rome due to the power vacum of the Roman empire.

this religious entity is what the Bible refers to as the fourth kingdom. because they rule in place and in the power of the ancient Roman empire.

Kobojunkie:
4. We pretty much know what the fourth kingdom was. it no longer exists today and, we also know the identity of all 10 kings that were pointed out in that Prophesy. Another thing we know is the identity of the other 3 kingdoms, some of which continue to exist to this day.

you don't know what your talking about.

Kobojunkie:
Go back through the 2 chapters - Daniel 2 and Daniel 7 - , forgetting all the soundbites you have previously been taught regarding prophesy and trying to see for yourself that the prophecy has already taken place. Nebuchadnezzar's dream has come to pass.

at this point I will say this is bullshit. come to me with facts.

emmanueloti65:
1. you are wasting my time. do you want to make reasonable argument or you just want to confuse yourself? Daniel 2:41 makes it clear that the kingdom shall be divided. it never said they will remain as one kingdom and this is evidenced by history.

2. Daniel 8:8 also said the same thing about the kingdom Greece dividing into four kingdoms symbolised by four horns, and this is also evidenced by history. because history has it that after the death of Alexander his four generals took over and divided his empire , these generals are Lysimachus, Cassander, Ptolemy and seleucus. this is historical fact. so you can see that horns in Bible prophecy represent kings and kingdoms.

3. how ever if you can prove whatever you say with historical fact then I will take you serious but for now you are not serious.

1. You don't like to read statements in context it seems . Here is what Verse 41 tells you instead of what you assume.

41 “You saw that the feet and toes of the statue were partly clay and partly iron. That means the fourth kingdom will be a divided kingdom. It will have some of the strength of iron in it just as you saw the iron mixed with clay.
42 The toes of the statue were partly iron and partly clay. So the fourth kingdom will be partly strong like iron and partly weak like clay.
43 You saw the iron mixed with clay, but iron and clay don’t completely mix together. In the same way the people of the fourth kingdom will be a mixture. They will not be united as one people.
44 “During the time of the kings of the fourth kingdom, the God of heaven will set up another kingdom that will continue forever. It will never be destroyed. And it will be the kind of kingdom that cannot be passed on to another group of people. This kingdom will crush all the other kingdoms. It will bring them to an end, but that kingdom itself will continue forever. - Daniel 2 vs 41 - 44

It speaks of the feet being indicative of an internal division that exists among the peoples, a weakness in the fourth Kingdom..

2. Daniel 8 said something entirely different from what is expressed in Daniel 2 vs 41 of the fourth Kingdom..

3. Historical fact? You are told that a rock will hit the iron/clay feet of the statue, eventually causing not only the Fourth Kingdom to crumble but also the other nations to also crumble in power and might. That rock eventually grows to become a mountain. That rock is Jesus Christ and the everlasting Kingdom which will do away with other nations is the Kingdom of God.

Then in Daniel 7, you are told that the Fourth beast which represents the fourth Kingdom will be killed off and thrown into the fire, while the other Kingdoms will be allowed to exist for a while longer. History does record this well too.

emmanueloti65:
1. Rome is the fourth kingdom and if that is the case then Rome was still intact as at when Christ was born and when the first apostles were killed off. history proves me right. your re wasting my time. these 10 kingdoms are existing now and will come to an end when Christ comes back to destroye the current government and establish his own. that is when the everlasting kingdom will be established.

Rome as a political entity ceased to exist but continued as are a religious entity when Constantine left Rome and gave his sit and authority to the Roman church. it is also evident from history that the Catholic church came into political power in rome due to the power vacum of the Roman empire.

this religious entity is what the Bible refers to as the fourth kingdom. because they rule in place and in the power of the ancient Roman empire.

you don't know what your talking about.

at this point I will say this is bullshit. come to me with facts.

1. The story does not speak of 10 kingdoms but of 10 kings who existed at the time of the setting up of the Kingdom of God. Theses were probably of the 12 1st century Roman emperors as they were those who persecuted the ones that are referred to as God's Holy people.

2. This idea of yours that Roman empire split up into 10 parts is not a part of the prophesy which instead indicates instead that the Fourth beast was killed and its bother thrown into the fire. This assumption of yours that Rome's power continues is a religious form is not of the prophecy but of the delusions of men who in their minds seek to give power to what is the catholic church where there is no mention of it in any of what is written.

Learn to stick to the story as given instead.

Kobojunkie:
1. The story does not speak of 10 kingdoms but of 10 kings who existed at the time of the setting up of the Kingdom of God. Theses were probably of the 12 1st century Roman emperors as they were those who persecuted the ones that are referred to as God's Holy people.

2. This idea of yours that Roman empire split up into 10 parts is not a part of the prophesy which instead indicates instead that the Fourth beast was killed and its bother thrown into the fire. This assumption of yours that Rome's power continues is a religious form is not of the prophecy but of the delusions of men who in their minds seek to give power to what is the catholic church where there is no mention of it in any of what is written.

Learn to stick to the story as given instead.

no need wasting my time with you. all I need you to do is prove it with historical facts.

Kobojunkie:
1. You don't like to read statements in context it seems . Here is what Verse 41 tells you instead of what you assume.
It speaks of the feet being indicative of an internal division that exists among the peoples, a weakness in the fourth Kingdom..

2. Daniel 8 said something entirely different from what is expressed in Daniel 2 vs 41 of the fourth Kingdom..

3. Historical fact? You are told that a rock will hit the iron/clay feet of the statue, eventually causing not only the Fourth Kingdom to crumble but also the other nations to also crumble in power and might. That rock eventually grows to become a mountain. That rock is Jesus Christ and the everlasting Kingdom which will do away with other nations is the Kingdom of God.

Then in Daniel 7, you are told that the Fourth beast which represents the fourth Kingdom will be killed off and thrown into the fire, while the other Kingdoms will be allowed to exist for a while longer. History does record this well too.

I have seen that you refused to understand. prove to me that the Roman empire did not disintegrate. otherwise please don't quote me again.

emmanueloti65:
I have seen that you refused to understand. prove to me that the Roman empire did not disintegrate. otherwise please don't quote me again.

Disintegration has absolutely nothing to do with this prophesy, so you continuing to bring it up when it plays no part in what is written means your ideas probably come from that which you were taught by others and not from you in fact processing what is written as it is written.

23 “And he explained this to me: ‘The fourth animal is a fourth kingdom that will come on the earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms. That fourth kingdom will destroy people all around the world. It will walk on and crush nations all around the world.
24 The ten horns are ten kings that will come from this fourth kingdom. After those ten kings are gone, another king will come. He will be different from the kings who ruled before him. He will defeat three of the other kings.
25 This special king will say things against God Most High, and he will hurt and kill God’s special people. That king will try to change the times and laws that have already been set. God’s holy people will be under that king’s power for three and one-half years.[e]
26 “‘But the court will decide what should happen, and that king’s power will be taken away. His kingdom will end completely.
27 Then God’s holy people will rule over the kingdom and all the people from all the kingdoms of earth. This kingdom will last forever, and people from all the other kingdoms will respect and serve them.’ - Daniel 7 vs 23 - 27

Daniel 7 tells you the Fourth beast was killed and thrown into the fire. The explanation provided in verse 26 explains that the Fourth Kingdom ends completely, not that it is then divided into 10 different kingdoms as you continue to assert. And nowhere in the prophecy are you either told the Fourth Kingdom takes on a new form. The prophecy says the Fourth Kingdom is destroyed... Its power, might, and place are gone from the earth.

Your Vatican in Rome today is nothing of the Roman Empire that formerly existed. It is instead a business empire that does not compare in any way or form to the Roman empire of Old.

Kobojunkie:
Disintegration has absolutely nothing to do with this prophesy, so you continuing to bring it up when it plays no part in what is written means your ideas probably come from that which you were taught by others and not from you in fact processing what is written as it is written.
Daniel 7 tells you the Fourth beast was killed and thrown into the fire. The explanation provided in verse 26 explains that the Fourth Kingdom ends completely, not that it is then divided into 10 different kingdoms as you continue to assert. And nowhere in the prophecy are you either told the Fourth Kingdom takes on a new form. The prophecy says the Fourth Kingdom is destroyed... Its power, might, and place are gone from the earth.

Your Vatican in Rome today is nothing of the Roman Empire that formerly existed. It is instead a business empire that does not compare in any way or form to the Roman empire of Old.

you have actually proven yourself a waste of my time. empty words without any historical or factual backup is just and empty word. so pls don't quote me again I have no time to waste with you.