₦airaland Forum

Op, you have a very sharp brain. God bless you for this. If this is so, why then all the fire prayer everywhere in Nigeria?

paxonel:
Op, you have a very sharp brain. God bless you for this. If this is so, why then all the fire prayer everywhere in Nigeria?

My brother, there are many factors responsible for those "fire and brimstone" prayers. Some times people are affected by culture: they liken God to god thinking they can be served same way. Another factor is doctrine, some don't believe you are praying a serious prayer until you "take it by force" getting physical about it in shouting. God help us.

Topman0001:
Hmm! Another lesson. I wish I can know you more than this... There are some other things I still need to know in the bible.

It's God's wisdom in prints.

drstan:
Luke.16.16"The law and the prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and every one enters it violently.

Bros the verse is still saying thesame thing,during the law (moses time) and the prophets, nothing about the heaven was preached, but during john the baptist and even now,the Kingdoms is preach and people are rushing in violently,earnestly.

Is just that Jesus brought grace in the struggling and this make it now easy for us, is by the grace of God we are saved,

Philipians 2.12 International Standard Version
And so, my dear friends, just as you have always obeyed, not only when I was with you but even more now that I am absent, continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling.

How can you work out your salvation without contending violently against sin? One need to be violent with his self before he can work out his salvation,
The grace factor now come into play, by making it easy for us to contend.
Some time i will be contending violently with my self not to sin, but when the grace factor is there, I will just here it in my spirit, my Grace is sufficient for you to overcome this sin, and immediately I will overcome it,

Now those that don't contend violently with their self before grace speak, are those that fall into sin easily before realising, because they believe grace will speak for them when they ask for forgiveness, that why paul said In this romans

King James Bible
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Holman Christian Standard Bible
What should we say then? Should we continue in sin so that grace may multiply?

So bro, Grace is a factor in our struggling. Just like some one will say I need the grace of God in my exam, and yet the person fail to read,
So bro in as much as we struggle violently to enter the Kingdom we need the grace of God to stand firm.
Unlike those in the days of john, they were unable to stand firmly because grace was not there,
There were just violently forcing there way in

Luke 16.16
Amplified version
Until John came, there were the Law and the Prophets; since then the good news (the Gospel) of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone strives violently to go in [would force his own way rather than God's way into it]
So bro that the grace factor jesus brought into place.

Paul really contend for the faith violently preaching without fear, because of the grace factor that always speak for him when ever he is in danger,

hey Bro.

From your submission, the fact that we have to wrestle or work out our salvation doesn't mean what Jesus was saying the same in Matt 12:11.

Please read the post again with no preconceived idea. Open the scripture as you read. I'm sure you will get it.

damilarelr:
My brother, there are many factors responsible for those "fire and brimstone" prayers. Some times people are affected by culture: they liken God to god thinking they can be served same way. Another factor is doctrine, some don't believe you are praying a serious prayer until you "take it by force" getting physical about it in shouting. God help us.

thats true

Yinkatolu:
@op who told u we can't still be violent in this era of grace in our prayer life? y did d Bible says pray without ceasing? y did d Bible says the effectual n fervent prayer of d righteous availeth much?

I don't think he preached against prayer. He actually only addressed that verse in the context that it was used. Prayer is so so very important, but this writer did some justice to that verse of scripture. He just gave us a new revelation which is worth it

damilarelr:
'...the kingdom of God suffereth violence; and the violent taketh it by force'! (Matthew 11:12)

Some believers understand the above verse to mean that a believer has to pray and fast VIOLENTLY in other to overcome the evil powers disturbing their lives!

Some even think it is about shouting at God to release blessings on them!

Now listen carefully: the VIOLENCE referred to in the above verse has nothing to do with shouting or shaking or attending violent prayer meetings or engaging in several days of fasting, etc!

Not at all!

When you take a verse of scripture out of its context, you end up allowing yourself to be deceived!

The VIOLENCE referred to in that verse refers to a quick and serious shift from LAW to GRACE!!!

The verse actually reads thus: 'And from the DAYS OF JOHN THE BAPTIST UNTIL NOW...hmm...the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN suffereth violence,...and the VIOLENT take it by force'! (Matt 11:12 emphasis mine).....

Why do you folks like to use God's name to teach this bullsheet?

monopodsmile:
I don't think he preached against prayer. He actually only addressed that verse in the context that it was used. Prayer is so so very important, but this writer did some justice to that verse of scripture. He just gave us a new revelation which is worth it

The OP's sermon is of the doctrines and delusions, not of God..

Also the mandate in the Kingdom of God is obedience, not prayer, meaning you can pray from the day you are born until the day you die and receive nothing from God in the way of answers until you begin to obey His actual commandments, even those regarding the how, when and where to pray....

Kobojunkie:
Why do you folks like to use God's name to teach this bullsheet?

Where is the BS in my Post? You can easily raise your opinion and point out where you're not okay with and possibly back your claim with scriptural views.

Amen.

damilarelr:
'...the kingdom of God suffereth violence; and the violent taketh it by force'! (Matthew 11:12)

Some believers understand the above verse to mean that a believer has to pray and fast VIOLENTLY in other to overcome the evil powers disturbing their lives!

Some even think it is about shouting at God to release blessings on them!

Now listen carefully: the VIOLENCE referred to in the above verse has nothing to do with shouting or shaking or attending violent prayer meetings or engaging in several days of fasting, etc!

Not at all!

When you take a verse of scripture out of its context, you end up allowing yourself to be deceived!

The VIOLENCE referred to in that verse refers to a quick and serious shift from LAW to GRACE!!!

The verse actually reads thus:

'And from the DAYS OF JOHN THE BAPTIST UNTIL NOW...hmm...the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN suffereth violence,...and the VIOLENT take it by force'! (Matt 11:12 emphasis mine)

Wow!

This verse is one of the sweetest verses on GRACE!!!

Matthew 11 is a chapter about John the Baptist sending his disciples to Jesus to question if Jesus is truly the Messiah!

But Jesus gave John's disciple a very intelligent answer and began to make some interesting comments about John!

In vs 13 (which is the next verse), Jesus said:

'For all the prophets and the LAW prophesied until John'! (Matt 11:13)

This is what Jesus was saying:

John is the last prophet of the Law! The proclamation of the Law ended with John! Anybody who got a miracle @ the time of John, was supposed to ONLY get it by fulfilling the LAW of the Old Testament!

After the Law comes GRACE (which Jesus described as the Kingdom of God)!

But the dispensation of Grace had not begun yet because Jesus had not yet died!

Now Jesus said:...'From the days of John the Baptist until NOW....the kingdom of Heaven (Grace dispensation)...suffereth violence....' (Matt 11:12)

Wow!

Did you get that?

Jesus was saying that...in between the time that John lived and the time that He would die on the cross....GRACE is NOT supposed to be manifested yet!!!

But the wise people of that time did not wait for Jesus to die before they started receiving healing and blessings from God by operating the covenant of GRACE which does not judge them by their works!!!

(I really hope you get this)!

That is what Jesus meant by the VIOLENT taketh it by force!

That is, people under Law ....saw Jesus....and recognized that He was not a Prophet of the Law....so they PRESSED into the FREE and UNMERITED favour which He carried and got their blessings totally FREE even though Jesus had not yet died to end the Law!!! (Romans 10:4)

Let me show you some examples:

1) When Jesus told a 'gentile' woman who needed healing for her child that He cannot give the children's bread to the dog....(Matt 15:26)...He was actually saying....Supernatural Healing is not meant for a 'non-Jew' as at that time because He hadn't died yet!

In fact, it was in this context that Jesus affirmed that before His death, He was sent only to the 'lost sheep of Israel'! (Matt 15:24)

But this woman was not an Israelite and she wanted Jesus to perform a miracle on her child!

This was why when Jesus healed her daughter, He said to her:

'O woman, GREAT IS THY FAITH! (Matt 15:27)

Wow!

This woman VIOLENTLY entered into GRACE when it wasn't time for GRACE to manifest yet!

Are you getting the picture now?

2) Another example was that under the Law, it is a 'SIN' for a woman with the 'issue of blood' to come into the midst of people! (Lev 15:25-27)

But the Bible says when the woman with the issue of blood 'heard of Jesus'....she PRESSED INTO THE CROWD...ah!....and touched the hem of Jesus' garment! (Mark 5:27)

Wow!

She broke the LAW...when she 'heard of Jesus'!

Can you see how the kingdom of Heaven suffered violence!!!

The Law was still in full force because Jesus had not yet died...but she broke the Law of Moses in order to partake of GRACE!!!

Hmm....what did she hear about Jesus?

(If you wanna know, then don't miss the upcoming GOSPEL OF GRACE CONFERENCE 2014 season 3)! -- PM for details.

Wow!

Can you now see what Jesus meant by '....From the days of JOHN the Baptist until now....the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN suffereth violence...and the violent taketh it by force'!

That is, the 'violent could not wait for Jesus to die before they started pressing into the realities of the kingdom of God (GRACE)!

Now to make it brief and help you understand what Jesus was really saying about John the Baptist, which led to the statement about the violent taking it by force, let's just check out the parallel verse which is found in the book of Luke.

Now follow carefully:

'The LAW and the PROPHETS (hmm...) Were until JOHN:....SINCE THAT TIME...the KINGDOM OF GOD (Grace) is preached....and EVERY MAN PRESSETH INTO IT (i.e the violent taketh it by force)! (Luke 16:16 emphasis mine)

Wow!!!

Do you now understand?

Listen: The violent taketh it by force does not mean....'Shaking your head violently when praying'!!!

It does not mean.....fasting 100 days!!!

It does not mean....attending 7 days vigils!!!

It does not even mean....giving all your salary as a sacrifice!!!

Now listen carefully: it only required 'violence' to bring in GRACE when Jesus had not yet died!

Now Jesus had ALREADY DIED!!!

You can now LEGALLY PARTAKE OF GRACE!!!

GRACE IS TOTALLY UNMERITED FAVOUR!!!

Stop living your life as if Jesus had not yet died!

Rest on the finished work of Christ and receive your miracle FREELY!!!

'He (God) that spared not His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, ...How shall He not with Him also ...FREELY...FREELY...FREELY...give us...ALL...ALL...ALL...things!!! (Romans 8:32)

I therefore leave you with the words of Paul to the Galatians:

'Stand fast therefore in the LIBERTY wherewith CHRIST hath made us FREE,...and be not entangled again with the yoke of BONDAGE (law)! (Gal 5:1)

I'm sure your eyes of understanding has been enlightened to see what Jesus has done for you and what Jesus meant by ...'The kindom of Heaven suffereth violence and the violent taketh it by force'!

Wake up to the realities of GRACE!

Hallelujah!

The GOSPEL OF GRACE CONFERENCE 2014 (season 3) shall be a 'Rhema-Unsual' conference where God has determine to remove every scale of darkness from your eyes and usher you Graciously into the supernatural realms of GRACE!

Hallelujah!

Never forget: The violent taketh it by force does not mean....'Shaking your head violently when praying'!!!

You have been redeemed by the BLOOD!

'Stand fast therefore in the LIBERTY wherewith CHRIST hath made us FREE,...and be not entangled again with the yoke of BONDAGE (law)! (Galatians 5:1)

Amen

Many thanks for this, may God reward you abundantly for it through the precious blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, amen.

damilarelr:
Where is the BS in my Post? You can easily raise your opinion and point out where you're not okay with and possibly back your claim with scriptural views.
Amen.

Your claim that the verse signifies some shift from Law to grace is bullsheet!

Jesus Christ is God's New agreement of Peace, a Law promised by God through the prophets with which to bless the Nations with. He is God's Law in the Kingdom of God and pretty much told you this when in Matthew 11 vs 28 - 30 HE explained that He offers you both a yoke and a burden to bear, albeit better than the old.

The violent referenced are not those who are of God but the enemies of Jesus Christ- John 15 vs 14.

damilarelr:
1) When Jesus told a 'gentile' woman who needed healing for her child that He cannot give the children's bread to the dog....(Matt 15:26)...He was actually saying....Supernatural Healing is not meant for a 'non-Jew' as at that time because He hadn't died yet!

In fact, it was in this context that Jesus affirmed that before His death, He was sent only to the 'lost sheep of israel'! (Matt 15:24)

But this woman was not an Israelite and she wanted Jesus to perform a miracle on her child!

This was why when Jesus healed her daughter, He said to her:

'O woman, GREAT IS THY FAITH! (Matt 15:27)

Nowhere in the entire context that is the Bible is it written or stated that what Jesus Christ said to the Canaanite woman only applied before His death. As a matter of fact, Jesus Christ, when He threw the gates open sending His disciples into the world, He urged them to wait for the Holy Spirit, the Helper from God, to arrive before they proceeded for that very reason. He, the Spirit of Truth, is a guide to lead His followers to those who Jesus Christ was sent to, the lost Sheep of Israel, who are in also among the gentiles. Jesus Christ sent His followers out into the Gentile world, to be fishers of men who are descended from the lost sheep of Israel, the ones who He, the good shepherd, was sent to gather back to God.

Kobojunkie:
Your claim that the verse signifies some shift from Law to grace is bullsheet!

Jesus Christ is God's New agreement of Peace, a Law promised by God through the prophets with which to bless the Nations with. He is God's Law in the Kingdom of God and pretty much told you this when in Matthew 11 vs 28 - 30 HE explained that He offers you both a yoke and a burden to bear, albeit better than the old.

The violent referenced are not those who are of God but the enemies of Jesus Christ- John 15 vs 14.

Just reading this today.

Okay, if you read up Matt 11:28-30 in a version such as The Message, you will get a clearer perspective of what Jesus mean by light burden - which is simply a different way of life which is different from what Religion has placed upon many of us as a yoke. If you're saying Jesus is a different version of God's law, you're not wrong, however, the coming of Jesus fulfilled all the Laws of God...and purchased for us what it takes to be in right standing with God - with His blood. John 15:13.

You will agree with me that none of the Holy Spirit's commandment is grievous please.

Kobojunkie:
Nowhere in the entire context that is the Bible is it written or stated that what Jesus Christ said to the Canaanite woman only applied before His death. As a matter of fact, Jesus Christ, when He threw the gates open sending His disciples into the world, He urged them to wait for the Holy Spirit, the Helper from God, to arrive before they proceeded for that very reason. He, the Spirit of Truth, is a guide to lead His followers to those who Jesus Christ was sent to, the lost Sheep of Israel, who are in also among the gentiles. Jesus Christ sent His followers out into the Gentile world, to be fishers of men who are descended from the lost sheep of Israel, the ones who He, the good shepherd, was sent to gather back to God.

Jesus Christ's word is the subject of this post. Now, there are foods that are meant for dogs and those meant for the children. The Canaanite woman prefer the latter abd that was what prompted the statement of Jesus Christ.

As you rightly said, Jesus sent His disciples to the last sheep of Israel. But, as soon as the Holy Spirit came, the Children's food became available to us all.

One of the signs was the tearing of the curtain covering the Holies of Holies in the Temple when Jesus Christ breathed His last on the Cross. Did you know that the curtain was ripped from top to bottom? That can only happen in one way: an individual "held" it at the top and tore it apart..so that What was "restricted" can be "accessed" by all.

PEACE.

damilarelr:
■Just reading this today. Okay, if you read up Matt 11:28-30 in a version such as The Message, you will get a clearer perspective of what Jesus mean by light burden - which is simply a different way of life which is different from what Religion has placed upon many of us as a yoke. If you're saying Jesus is a different version of God's law, you're not wrong, however, the coming of Jesus fulfilled all the Laws of God...and purchased for us what it takes to be in right standing with God - with His blood. John 15:13.

■You will agree with me that none of the Holy Spirit's commandment is grievous please.

1. Jesus Christ is the embodiment of the agreement of peace which God promised to the House of Jacob through His prophets - Jeremiah 31 vs 31 - 34. The table below details the difference between the Old Law of Moses and the New Law, Jesus Christ aka the Gospel

■The Old Law of Moses, YHWH, is a National Constitution for the State of Israel in the Land of Canaan. It is important to understand that this Law was only applicable as long as the people remained in the Land of Canaan, the jurisdiction of the Law, so to speak. The Constitution contains approximately 613 statutes and commandments — the yoke of the Law—which the entire Nation of Israel was expected to live by and obey in the Land. The Law also was such that the people suffered together for the sins of those among them so every man was expected to keep tabs on the activities of the next man, all this while making sure to remain in compliance with the Law — the burden of the Law was heavy — as consequences for sin devastated more than just those who committed the sins if they go unreported or not dealt with.

■ The New Covenant and Gospel, Jesus Christ, is God's Law and Constitution in the Kingdom of God. This Law is given to individuals who will choose to believe in Jesus Christ and obtain citizenship in the Kingdom of God by being born-again. The jurisdiction of this Law is the Kingdom of God, a Kingdom that is not of this world, and as such, it is not to be considered competition or rival Law to the Old Law of Moses in any way or form, as there are no parallels to be drawn between both. The Gospel aka God's Law in the Kingdom of God comes with about 100 commandments and teachings for each individual in the Kingdom of God to live by — the yoke is easy— and unlike the Old Law, Individuals are not responsible for the sins of others neither is it an individual's place to police the activities of another in the Kingdom of God. That job belongs to Jesus Christ who is the only Teacher, Master, Shepherd, Helper, Head/Authority, etc., over all those who belong in the Kingdom of God.

2. Holy Spirit's commandment?

damilarelr:
■Jesus Christ's word is the subject of this post. Now, there are foods that are meant for dogs and those meant for the children. The Canaanite woman prefer the latter abd that was what prompted the statement of Jesus Christ. As you rightly said, Jesus sent His disciples to the last sheep of Israel. But, as soon as the Holy Spirit came, the Children's food became available to us all.
■One of the signs was the tearing of the curtain covering the Holies of Holies in the Temple when Jesus Christ breathed His last on the Cross. Did you know that the curtain was ripped from top to bottom? That can only happen in one way: an individual "held" it at the top and tore it apart..so that What was "restricted" can be "accessed" by all.

PEACE.

1. So what you are insinuating is that Jesus Christ lied when He said that the Father only sent Him to the Lost sheep of Israel - Matthew 15 vs 21 - 28? Meaning that God also lied every time He said, through His prophets, that He would make another agreement with the House of Jacob - Jeremiah 31 vs 31 - 34?

2. This reference to the curtains makes no sense here since there is no scriptural record that links the tearing of the curtain to what you claim. Exactly where in scriptures is the statement in bold to be found?

damilarelr:
Just reading this today.

Okay, if you read up Matt 11:28-30 in a version such as The Message, you will get a clearer perspective of what Jesus mean by light burden - which is simply a different way of life which is different from what Religion has placed upon many of us as a yoke. If you're saying Jesus is a different version of God's law, you're not wrong, however, the coming of Jesus fulfilled all the Laws of God...and purchased for us what it takes to be in right standing with God - with His blood. John 15:13.

You will agree with me that none of the Holy Spirit's commandment is grievous please.

A brotherly advice, ignore the fellow.