₦airaland Forum

AfriqueDuZuid:
Moto bikes are cheap one can get em for as low as $600

South Africans don't like em, we don't have roads issues, we buy cars and lots of them.

rvp2018:
Only 14% of South Africa rural have cars - 33% for urban.
It strange that motor bike adoption is low if the entry prize is low.
In Kenya - pre-2008 - there were only 3,757 bikes. Those days motor bikes were seen as middle-class sport - the Yamahas then was popular brand.
When gov lowered waved of tax on imported motorcycles in 2008 to promote job creation in the transport sector the number of motorbikes leaped from to 91151 in 2009
Today as we speak there are 2.5 million motor bikes - employing many youths - and many earn very good money per day.

It really Southern Africa loss....because kenya is firing on all it's economic cylinders by adopting such measures.

The same way South Africa missed the M-PESA train - mobile money- or maybe it didnt.

And same way it's economically stuck since 2010 unable it appear to restructure or re-invigorate it's economy in any way.

rvp2018:
And those poor people dont deserve to own a vehicle?
It's only the rich who deserve to own cars?
The poor deserve to own a vehicle - and in this case - cheap motorcycle would make their travel and business easy
Therefore South Africa should put incentive to increase motor cycle ownership by those who cannot afford cars.

In kenya there were few motor bikes - until gov decided to zero rate import taxes for any motor bikes of less than 120 cc - the cheap chinese & indians motorbikes became very affordable and poor now owns them. It cost less than 1,000 usd to buy a new one - a second one - some buy with 150usd. This has transformed the lives of the poor while creating a million job - for motor cycle taxis and deliveries.

rvp2018:
Do you think if motor bikes were dirty cheap in South Africa people will not buy them or not?
South Africa that we know is world most inequal country.
There are very rich people - and very poor people.

Just30:
And since when was democracy reduced to how long a person govern?
All the Russians want to be part of Russia ... No one is queing in their millions to go to EU or US, Russians enjoy going on tours in Europe especially during the summer.

Yes 16k of a real economy and not a phantom debt and financial instrument economy. This is the reason why none of the US sanctions has had an effect on the Russian economy. They under estimated the size and capability of the Russian economy.

Ukraine was already trading and working with Europe but the Europeans did not want them or their goods hence Russia was their biggest trading partner because only the Russians wanted whatever they had to trade.
Russia even did not want to invest in their Agriculture sector just so they can have a Market for Ukrainian goods. But after 2014, Russia massively invested in it Agriculture sector and today they are almost self sufficient.

On average, the Russian economy/productivity is comparable to that of Germany. You don't seem to know anything about Russia but for the nonsense that the west feeds you

vankelvin:
That RIP guy is best described as a Western puppet . He has been brainwashed totally
To him what the Western media reports is right and he will not accept any other truth.

If today US and all NATO nations decide to fight Russia none will win the war

Obaaderemi2:
Isn't this exactly what I said?
You are worse than the Boer.

He underestimated Ukraine and the powers funding it. If it was just Ukraine vs Russia, Ukraine would have become dust by now.

vankelvin:
[/b]
This war is a Russia vrs NATO and Russia is playing carefully so they don't loss all their amunitions and Military personels

vankelvin:
That RIP guy is best described as a Western puppet . He has been brainwashed totally
To him what the Western media reports is right and he will not accept any other truth.

If today US and all NATO nations decide to fight Russia none will win the war

AfriqueDuZuid:
Posting graphs without dates or source is pointless

Mpesa did not work as more South Africans owned bank accounts and trust in them.

Compared to where mpesa worked Lesotho, Kenya, Tanzania and others the latter was different.

If you look at countries where moto bikes works the have mainly poor roads and lack of public transport. South Africa does not have a problem with that. Again south Africans use 7 seater cars for short distance transport in rural areas(eg Toyota avansa)

jl115:
bikes are dirt cheap in SA.. You can buy a 150cc for R16500... Which is less than a $1000 and second hand you can even get them for a couple hundred rand

rvp2018:
https://www.statista.com/outlook/mmo/motorcycles/south-africa#unit-sales
From the brands - it appears it expensive BMWs - which dominate the market.
Are cheap Asian motor bikes really available.
I am talking bikes less than 150cc.

jl115:
asian bike are available yes.... And it was R16500 for a 150cc....im pretty sure you could get smaller bikes for even less

rvp2018:
Maybe it culture - maybe South African blacks see motorbikes as white boy thing - akin to US of A.

jl115:
or maybe like you've been told several times that South Africans just don't need bikes

A combination of high food prices and a strong dollar is negatively affecting people in Nigeria and other developing countries, a report by the United Nations Conference on Trade and Development has revealed.

According to the report, this combination is making many individuals living in these countries make hard choices to make ends meet, such as skipping meals or taking a child out of school.

It said this in its ‘A Double Burden: The effects of food price increases and currency depreciations on food import bills,’ report released in December.

It said, “The price of food has increased everywhere, reaching historic levels in 2022, as stated by the Global Crisis Response Group.

“This is a challenge for food security globally, but particularly for net food importing developing countries. And unlike in previous food crises, they now face a double burden. They not only pay higher prices for the food they import, but the price increase is exacerbated by the depreciation of their currency vis-à-vis the US dollar.

“This erodes the fiscal space that many developing countries need to face the concomitant challenges of recovering from the COVID-19 pandemic, the cost-of-living crisis, and the climate emergency. This note assesses the potential effect of high prices of wheat and concurrent currency devaluations on the import bills of selected developing countries.”

The organisation explained that the world had suffered three major food price spikes in the current century. The first two were in 2007-2008 and 2010-2012, with a third one currently because of the COVID-19 pandemic and the war in Ukraine.


stated that during the first two price spikes, the value of the dollar went down.

It said, “The depreciation of the US dollar and the consequent appreciation of other currencies made imports cheaper and provided some ease to food import bills for many developing countries.

“However, the current price spike is different. In an attempt to combat high inflation in the United States of America, the Federal Reserve increased its interest rates causing the US dollar to appreciate some 24 per cent between May 2021 and October 2022. This made the US dollar and the food that developing countries buy with it more expensive.”

According to UNCTAD, developing countries face a double burden of high food prices and the depreciation of their local currency against the dollar, and with national budgets stretched thin, net food importers are in a vulnerable position.

It added, “Research shows that exchange rates can have a significant impact on food prices. Take for example the price effects on wheat, the most widely cultivated crop in the world, for six countries: Egypt, Ethiopia, Mauritius, Pakistan, Peru, and Thailand.

“Since 2020 wheat prices have increased substantially. As of October 2022, the average price was 89 per cent higher than the average in 2020. During the same period, the average US dollar exchange rate vis-à-vis the respective national currencies rose between 10 and 46 per cent.”
”

rvp2018:
1.I rather listen to data saying 85% of household living in rural south africa do not own any vehicle.
These people lifes would dramatically improve if they owned two-wheel vehicles.
2. I am not convinced any public transport can efficient services such rural population spread over large areas.
3. Also large slum population in urban areas cannot afford to own four wheel vehicles.

4. You must accept that motor bikes have contributed to Asian economic growth.
And we are seeing the same effect in East Africa.

5.I think culture and lack of government incentive/intervention is responsible - because you see it right from Zambia, Zimbwabwe, Malawi - which are poor countries - them drying up. Perhaps East Africa fast growth the last two decades could be linked to motor bikes

I believe Africa should copy Asian - encourage the manufacture and use of two-wheel vehicles - motor bikes - that it's poor people can afford.
This will improve the wellbeing of Africans and finally lead to economic growth - until it reaches a position they can afford four -wheel vehicles.

6.I find this ostracization of two-wheel over four-wheel vehicles based on nothing but useless pride.

jl115:
1. That's because most people don't need a vehicle...they are self sufficient.

2. South Africa has 800 000km road network, public transport is available even at the remotest villages

3. They don't need to own a car, they can take a taxi which is cheap.

4. You've not posted one source that says Asian economies grew because people ride motorcycles.

5. We have more than sufficient public transport... Bikes are for countries that don't have proper road networks and/or sufficient public transport

6. Its because it isn't needed

On a national level, about 30 years ago the then - Prime
Minister asked the Minister of Transport about
motorcycles , which were quickly rising in popularity. The
Minister of Transport responded that motorcycles would
disappear with higher income levels , but this has not been
the case . About 80 % of Taiwanese families own both a
car and a motorcycle , and when there was an increase in
oil prices about 3 .5 years ago , about 20 % of car users
shifted mode , about 5 % to public transportation and 15 %
to motorcycles .

rvp20182:
1.why do you need a vehicle or vehicles but the poor especially in rural south Africa don't. 2.Taiwan is very developed yet has how many motor bikes.its public transportation beat south Africa senseless.Taipei look like next world compared to Joburg. You actually need evidence that improving transportation services improve economy? Seriously. 2.You also want to convince me that public taxis in rural south Africa beat motorbikes...the same for congested urban streets in slums. 4.You continue mark timming as east Africa economies pull 7 percent growth consistently without minerals probably driven by motorbikes while Asians are lifting billions out poverty.. meanwhile your poor are killing,robbing,raping and maiming the rich because of inequality.Start to think pro poor reforms..you urgently need them.They are not fancy sprinters..heck the public taxi you now tout are mainly illegal gang infested vans

Obaaderemi2:
Truly Africa needs this but like everything else management is key. The way these two-wheelers get involved in road accidents here is mind boggling.

jl115:
1. I don't need a car,I just want one....see the difference?

2. Taiwan only rank 6 places higher than SA wrt transport infrastructure and all our major cities have much much less congestion than Taiwan cities.... Basically we are close to par with Taiwan

3. Yes....explain to me how a person who needs to go buy the months groceries for an entire family will use a bike to transport those goods... Also remember they live in rural areas, meaning they are far away from any shops and only shop once a month..... Tell me how a bike is better than a taxi for the above person.

4. Kenya has a little midget economy with a massive population.....not even a brain dead president can't manage at least 5-6% growth because those factors

Just30:
Surrounded by mountain ranges on all four sides

Welkom to the best


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2aA1qmU_q0

rvp2018:
1) Give the same choice to poor - to want or need a vehicle - and that mean south africa gov encourages the ownership of dirty cheap motorbikes. I dont think it has done enough on that front.

2) Taiwan is developed and has world class public trasport system - yet there is space for motor bikes - even Europe with its development has space for motor bikes. You cannot find easy replacemtn for motorbikes esp for last mile. The train or bus or van will never drop you in your house. It either a personal car or motor bike or bicycle.

3) The poor are poor exactly for that - they cant shop as frequently as they want - they have to do it monthly - they cant visit people as much as they want - heck they cant even go have beer in local market because it's far - they cant even go to hospital as much as they want - because transport is expensive or not convenient or not available. They remain poor. They literally have no economic mobility. Now imagine if they own small 50 cc motorbike that can take them to pretty much everywhere very very cheaply. They can shop daily. They can drink daily. They can take their farm produce to market daily. They can go hospital daily if need be. They are able to move almost any minute anyhow cheaply. These plus stuff like mobile money increase the velocity of money leading to economic growth...the bar is able to restock daily, brewery can brew daily...etc,

4) Kenya has grown compared to many other Africa countries - you say it's midget - yet as we speak it only 1/3 less than south africa in gdp per capita. I think Boer you're struggling to keep up with facts.

5.The facts are clear - kenya is pulling almost 7% economic growth - that mean it will definitely double it GDP and GDP per capita to 4,000 in a decade - reaching South Africa level in 2030 (Upper middle income). South Africa by their own ministry of treasury projection is to growing btw 0-1% for the medium term - meaning it remain there - as pop growth is 0-1% - if we dont factor illegal immigrants. If we add 10M illegal immigrants - South Africa population is 70m...South Africa gdp per capita...drops to 6,000 usd.

6. Now you are about to understand why South Africa is going nowhere while Asia countries are moving to developed world.

Africa has two models to copy - LATAM model aka south africa - latin america - or the South or East Asian model.

LATAM (Latin America) - end results middle class trap, income inequality, drugs, crime, hopelessness. Asian model - end results is to become developed in great numbers..as economic growth is BROAD, and nobody is left behind. LATAM...growth become uneven...leading to South Africa, Brazil, Mexico...few super rich...and many poor people resort to crime and drugs.

jl115:
1) I want to own a private jet....but I can't, people buy what they need and what they can afford....if they wanted to they can buy a dirt cheap bike... But why would they? Its a waste of money because they don't need it.

2. There are near 300 000 min minibus taxis, 60 000 ubers/bolt, 20 000 meter taxis......we don't need bikes for public transport..

3) it's not about "wants" it's about "needs" ......tell me how a little 50cc bike is going to travel 50-80km(one way) to the nearest shop everyday? Remember we are talking rural!! There are no shops or clinics nearby, you can't go shopping every day because it isn't economically feasible, you also can't buy a bike because you might need to go to the clinic 2-3 times a year? How are you going to visit your friends and ride around town when the nearest fuel station is 80km away?

4) 1/3 is massive...... SA is 300% bigger.... We done the math, we already know you ain't catching SA gdp wise in our lifetime.....and most likely never catching SA per capita wise.

5) if Kenya grew by 6% and SA stood completely still it would take Kenya 22 years to reach SA... But let's make it more realistic and say SA continues to grow by 1%.....then it will take Kenya 27 years.... 2023+27 = 2050 and that's for total GDP.... Your population is going to be much bigger than SAs.... So please explain how you are going to reach SA by 2030?

6)your entire argument revolves around the fact if the ANC governs for the foreseeable future.... However they are polling at less than 40%, all experts agree that the ANC will lose the next election....after the ANC is gone, SA will easily grow at 4-5 % within 3 years of the new government taking control.

rvp2018:
Okay let me just process this. Shops in rural south africa are 50-80km away - are we serious here?