₦airaland Forum

Mkenya2019:
You want another post your shack contest or what? Itching to share your selfies?

Your personal lives does not matter in a Faceless platform, they will never proved. Even if you say you president of Malawi it dies not matter.

Stick to the subject at hand, your involvement is irrelevant

Then you became bankrupt in 1962 - then military dictatorship until 2002 - and now generally oscillate btw bankruptcy and IMF programs - every three years to the dot - you file for bankruptcy - IMF comes for next 3yrs - fix the mess - you immediately resume the bad behaviors - 3yrs later - bankruptcy. Yet you have always had gold, aluminum, river volta, arable land, and now oil. If you were half-decent country - you would far ahead.

vaxx:
Ghana has been commanding lot of respect right from independence. When we are eatingg and dancing with the non align nations ( the big boys) you were still a british puppet.

Mkenya2019:
Stop lying. Nigeria this coming year is projecting to collect about 10 trillion both from oil and non oil.They are then going to borrow another crazy 10trillion naira.What does Nigeria actually collect as revenue..at federal level its about 10 billion dollars..2021 they did about that.kenya total revenue at national level is more than 20 billion. Again what has exportation got to do with gdp or gov revenues.kenya 2023 budget will be 3.6 trillion kshs with at least 2.8 trillion being collected internally...we will only borrow mere 700b kshs...

Not a lie, I get my information from credible sources. I'll give you the complete data on 2022 when it's released in February. Bookmark my post.

When you say Kenyan taxes at national level, I an not aware that Kenya runs a federal system like Nigeria. are there Kenyan counties with budgets of 4 Billion dollars, 1.1 Billion dollars, 900 million dollars, etc, with a few of them being able to finance over 70% of their budgets without federal allocations?

Finally, it is impossible for Kenya of 54 million people to generate more than Nigeria when your exports are so low. That would mean you generate revenue way more than Nigeria internally, yet Kenya with just 54 million people have their highest export at 1.4 Billion dollars and manufacturing at 7.9 Billion dollars. That doesn't add up.
Nigerian manufacturing is 8 times that of Kenya at 64 Billion dollars. She has also over 300 registered companies (Lagos alone has thesame number as that of Kenya which is around 70 officially registered companies). How then can you generate more revenue than Nigeria?

We were inspired by South Africa kids who fought Apertheid. We watched Safarina film back to back in early 1990s.I thought I would inspire these Zoogerians to fix their country. If South Africa school kids fought the great Boer regime - anyone can fight bad governance.

AfriqueDuZuid:
Your personal lives does not matter in a Faceless platform, they will never proved. Even if you say you president of Malawi it dies not matter.

Stick to the subject at hand, your involvement is irrelevant

First revenue is money in the bank. It has to add up. It must add up. It banked in gov coffers.
Revenues are generated as tax or user charge on economic activities.
Most revenues in kenya come from income taxes - PAYE - that all formal employees if their salary is at least 300USD per month or around.
Kenya has about three million people formally employed - about a million in gov/public sector - two million in private entreprises.
The next big one is Customs - these are duties applied on all imports. Kenya imports close to 20B dollars.
The next is VAT - we have 16% (last I checked Nigeria was 8%) - this levied on most goods and services.
Throw in excise duty - sin/luxury taxes on some products like alcohol, cars, etc.
Next are user fees/licenses/court fines.
There is no where exports are involved - taxes will come from PAYE - so you have have more formal employees (south africa have nearly 10m) - then VATable goods and services - then taxes all imports.

Kenya runs a devolved gov. It's unitary. Not federal. Counties dont levy taxes.
But they levy A-I-A. User fees/license. Counties in kenya run pre-schools ,agriculture, health and 17 other functions.
Counties get allocated % of what is collected nationally.
Then raise their own - mostly from business licensing and from hospitals they run.

Nigeria runs a federal system - where revenue is shared btw 3 levels - Federal, State and Local Authorities.

Now that we have baselines - let get the figures.

Give me Nigeria 2021 - where we have all numbers - ACTUAL (not projeced) revenues for Federal, 36 states and 200 plus LCA.

Once you have the figures - you'll come to inevitable conclusion that Nigeria GDP is grossly overstimated.

Kenya is collecting less than 20% of it's GDP - roughly 18% - this exactly where countries at kenya level of development are.

South Africa is doing 25% - as it middle class country.

Nigeria should be doing 20% - meaning they should collect 100B dollars.

GeneralDae:
Not a lie, I get my information from credible sources. I'll give you the complete data on 2022 when it's released in February. Bookmark my post.

When you say Kenyan taxes at national level, I an not aware that Kenya runs a federal system like Nigeria. are there Kenyan counties with budgets of 4 Billion dollars, 1.1 Billion dollars, 900 million dollars, etc, with a few them being able to finance over 70% of their budgets without federal allocations?

Finally, it is impossible for Kenya of 54 million people to generate more than Nigeria when your exports are so low. That would mean you generate revenue way more than Nigeria internally, yet Kenya with just 54 million people have their highest export at 1.4 Billion dollars and manufacturing at 7.9 Billion dollars. That doesn't add up.

Mkenya2019:
We were inspired by South Africa kids who fought Apertheid. We watched Safarina film back to back in early 1990s.I thought I would inspire these Zoogerians to fix their country. If South Africa school kids fought the great Boer regime - anyone can fight bad governance.

Personal lives, achiement, where you stay, etc are not important

Irrelevant as they can't be proven in any way

Yet you posted your half-drugged selfie here?

AfriqueDuZuid:
Personal lives, achiement, where you stay, etc are not important

Irrelevant as they can't be proven in any way

Mkenya2019:
Then you became bankrupt in 1962 - then military dictatorship until 2002 - and now generally oscillate btw bankruptcy and IMF programs - every three years to the dot - you file for bankruptcy - IMF comes for next 3yrs - fix the mess - you immediately resume the bad behaviors - 3yrs later - bankruptcy. Yet you have always had gold, aluminum, river volta, arable land, and now oil. If you were half-decent country - you would far ahead.

You impregnated IMF 17/ 18 times or more . Far more economic handicapped than Ghana. You aren't the right channel.

Mkenya2019:
Kenya education is only compared to many nearly developed countries. Not Nigeria. Not Ghana. Not South Africa.

https://www.worldbank.org/en/country/kenya/publication/lessons-from-kenya-s-education-reforms

Where your nurses can't pass ordinary literacy tests.

Mkenya2019:
Yet you posted your half-drugged selfie here?

No proof

Legendary Moi had a start-stop IMF dance in 1990s.
Post-cold-war - Kenya who was Western allie - and fairly democratic - suddenly found itself in the cross-roads.
Western nations in short, dumped Moi, Mobutu, Kaundu and few pro-western allies - and demanded democracy.
They now didnt need any support - with collapse of USSR.

That happened in 1990s - just a year of end of cold war in 1989 - or collapse of USSR.

Kenya which then depended 60% of the economy and forex from aid from western nation - had it suspended for gross human rights violation.

They just woke up one day - US, EU, Norway, IMF, WB - and said all AID to kenya was out.

What followed - with 60% of forex drop - KSHS went haywire - from exchanging at fixed 20 shs to a dollar since 1963 - it went to 65
Inflation went through the roof - bread use to be 2 bob - it went 16 shs I remember.
Overnight there was financial chaos and ruin.
My father who had small loan...found the loan had trippled.

Many regimes went bankrupt and fell over. Zaire Mobutu, Kaundu and others didn't survive.

Moi survived. He played IMF/WB/US/EU like guitar. He would accept reforms - they open the taps. He would renege. They would stop. He would then again go back and accept reforms. They open the taps.

I think btw that period there was almost an IMF program every year until 2003 ouster of MOi/KANU.

As final Coupe Degrace - Moi allowed IMF to pick the cabinet and their gov - because the distrust had become too much - IMF swiftly looked for white kenyan and made him our civil service head - and fired so many people from gov - teachers name it - nobody was spared.

Brilliant Moi - then had White kenya and the IMF DREAM TEAM - fired after taking political flank for unpopular reforms.

Moi then blamed the white racist Leakey for hating africans and firing civil servants enmass. Leakey went from being liked to being hated by legions.

And finally he made huge mistake to pick UHuru - small drunkard idiot nobody knew as his successor - and KANU lost.

vaxx:
You impregnated IMF 17/ 18 times or more . Far more economic handicapped than Ghana. You aren't the right channel.

Mkenya2019:
We were inspired by South Africa kids who fought Apertheid. We watched Safarina film back to back in early 1990s.I thought I would inspire these Zoogerians to fix their country. If South Africa school kids fought the great Boer regime - anyone can fight bad governance.

We actually inspired you when we dared guns and tanks to push the military out of power in 1999, a bloody journey that started much earlier. You couldn't even unseat the cow called moi until 2003 or so.
We've been trying since the beginning of these threads to inspire you more and it's working. At least you are always here to learn. Start by taking your country from Indians and Chinese. And then stop killing teachers. No society that kills teachers can do well. That's why your drugged stvpid kids fail at every international science olympiad.

If Viagra had not taken down Gen Abacha you'd be more dead than now. At least you're just a zoo.

Obaaderemi2:
We actually inspired you when we dared guns and tanks to push the military out of power in 1999, a bloody journey that started much earlier. You couldn't even unseat the cow called moi until 2003 or so.
We've been trying since the beginning of these threads to inspire you more and it's working. At least you are always here to learn. Start by taking your country from Indians and Chinese. And then stop killing teachers. No society that kills teachers can do well. That's why your drugged stvpid kids fail at every international science olympiad.

Mkenya2019:
If Viagra had not taken down Gen Abacha you'd be more dead than now. At least you're just a zoo.

Abacha was so vilified he couldn't travel to take care of himself and he was constantly harassed at home. We are not sissies like Kenyans who couldn't dislodge old man moi for years. And you're just an uncultured jungle anyway.

You're a jungle now without electricity, water, sewage, bad roads, nothing works.

If there was time for reforms - it now in Nigeria.

Kenya we dont fear regimes or authority or elders.

Stop prostrating - I watch a video where a Nigeria student went down to floor when lecturer entered class - seriously dude- stop that CRAP. I watch Obasanjo training his kid to prostrate,

Until you lynch teachers for underperformance - you aint going nowhere.

We fire always 70% of all politicians every 5yrs.

Stop being SLAVES to kings, princes, queens, politicians, army,

Obaaderemi2:
Abacha was so vilified he couldn't travel to take care of himself and he was constantly harassed at home. We are not sissies like Kenyans who couldn't dislodge old man moi for years. And you're just an uncultured jungle anyway.

Mkenya2019:
Yet you posted your half-drugged selfie here?

A selfie all of you Kenyans kept on your phones.

Mkenya2019:
You're a jungle now without electricity, water, sewage, bad roads, nothing works.

If there was time for reforms - it now in Nigeria.

Kenya we dont fear regimes or authority or elders.

Stop prostrating - I watch a video where a Nigeria student went down to floor when lecturer entered class

Until you lynch teachers for underperformance - you aint going nowhere.

We fire always 70% of all politicians every 5yrs.

Yet Nigerians built your roads in Kenya.

All he did is to ruin the reputation of Nigeria contractors. That reputation will take your years to rebuild.

Obaaderemi2:
Yet Nigerians built your roads in Kenya.

Mkenya2019:
First revenue is money in the bank. It has to add up. It must add up. It banked in gov coffers.
Revenues are generated as tax or user charge on economic activities.
Most revenues in kenya come from income taxes - PAYE - that all formal employees if their salary is at least 300USD per month or around.
Kenya has about three million people formally employed - about a million in gov/public sector - two million in private entreprises.
The next big one is Customs - these are duties applied on all imports. Kenya imports close to 20B dollars.
The next is VAT - we have 16% (last I checked Nigeria was 8%) - this levied on most goods and services.
Throw in excise duty - sin/luxury taxes on some products like alcohol, cars, etc.
Next are user fees/licenses/court fines.
There is no where exports are involved - taxes will come from PAYE - so you have have more formal employees (south africa have nearly 10m) - then VATable goods and services - then taxes all imports.

Kenya runs a devolved gov. It's unitary. Not federal. Counties dont levy taxes.
But they levy A-I-A. User fees/license. Counties in kenya run pre-schools ,agriculture, health and 17 other functions.
Counties get allocated % of what is collected nationally.
Then raise their own - mostly from business licensing and from hospitals they run.

Nigeria runs a federal system - where revenue is shared btw 3 levels - Federal, State and Local Authorities.

Now that we have baselines - let get the figures.

Give me Nigeria 2021 - where we have all numbers - ACTUAL (not projeced) revenues for Federal, 36 states and 200 plus LCA.

Once you have the figures - you'll come to inevitable conclusion that Nigeria GDP is grossly overstimated.

Kenya is collecting less than 20% of it's GDP - roughly 18% - this exactly where countries at kenya level of development are.

South Africa is doing 25% - as it middle class country.

Nigeria should be doing 20% - meaning they should collect 100B dollars.

Resource dependent countries generally have low tax to GDP and even Norway has low tax to GDP by the standards of their peers.

In addition to this, Nigerian data is also a bit reasonable because out of a working population of 90 million people, only 13 million people (complete total since 1960) paid tax across board up until 2016. Now it is increasing to over 20 million people (complete total). In addition, VAT was at 5% (lowest in Africa) until recently where it is 7.5%.

I agree that there is massive corruption in the Nigerian tax system especially at the state and local Government tax levels and there are massive leakages but my point is that there's no way Kenya is making that much revenue officially and it doesn't show in other areas like your exports and manufacturing outputs.

Compare your revenues to that of Egypt and Morocco for instance and then compare your manufacturing output and your exports to theirs and also compare your working population to get my drift. Something doesn't add up somewhere. Now I'm beginning to believe KaziKazi.

Mkenya2019:
As final Coupe Degrace - Moi allowed IMF to pick the cabinet and their gov - because the distrust had become too much - IMF swiftly looked for white kenyan and made him our civil service head - and fired so many people from gov - teachers name it - nobody was spared.

Moi then blamed the white racist Leakey for hating africans and firing civil servants enmass. Leakey went from being liked to being hated by legions.

They picked the white man because they knew you Kenyans were stvpid.

Now you admit the white settler was racist. How many times have we told you here that the white settlers and Indians see you black Kenyans as slaves? So you knew?

Nigeria collect PAYE at almost same rate with Kenya - infact it appears to be slighter higher.
Nigeria collects 7.5% VAT - about half of kenya 16% - that should be only "low tax Oil economy"
Nigeria collects import duties/excise duties.

Kenya is collecting 18% (sometimes even less) precisely because of small manufacturing base. Agriculture is normally untaxed.

If kenya restructure it's economy to be like south africa - we would collect 25% of our GDP. That would mean 3.25 trillion kshs.

If kenya seals, right now it will improve to about 20% of GDP, about 2.6-3.0 trillion.
This is what Ruto is working on. We collect way low VAT compared to our economy than Uganda or Rwanda or Tanzania - as they many fake VAT stamps.

For kenya it improve its tax collection in long term - it needs to restructure the economy to more services & manufacturing - it will then collect taxes - right now 25% of economy is agricluture (which is just not taxable - unless you want to chase farmers in their farm markets)

You cannot claim to have large manufacturing - and have low taxes.

GeneralDae:
Resource rich countries generally have low tax to GDP and even Norway has low tax to GDP by the standards of their peers.

In addition to this, Nigerian data is also a bit reasonable because out of a working population of 90 million people, only 13 million people (complete total since 1960) paid tax across board up until 2016. Now it is increasing to over 20 million people (complete total). In addition, VAT was at 5% (lowest in Africa) until recently where it is 7.5%.

I agree that there is massive corruption in the Nigerian tax system especially at the state and local Government tax levels and there are massive leakages but my point is that there's no way Kenya is making that much revenue officially and it doesn't show in other areas like your exports and manufacturing outputs.

Compare your revenues to that of Egypt and Morocco for instance and then compare your manufacturing output and your exports to theirs and also compare your working population to get my drift. Something doesn't add up somewhere. Now I'm beginning to believe KaziKazi.

I only admit you have English comprehension problem.
I didnt say Leakey was racist - he was NOT.

Moi refused to institute political painful reforms - IMF wanted civil services almost halved - there was going to be a lot of jobless people out there - amongst many other reforms.

Moi told IMF - bring your team - and do it yourselves. After the job was done - he fired them.

Moi found a perfect excuse to blame for painful reforms. He was politician. I am not.

"Corruption, inefficiency and bureaucracy are slowing down government operations. Donor funds have dried up and the cost of doing business is at an all-time high.

Then in comes President Daniel arap Moi with a strategy to restore investor and donor confidence in the country: a dream team- team of well-paid technocrats drawn from the private sector with only one job description: changing the face of Kenya.

To head the group, Moi chose renowned paleontologist, Dr Richard Leakey.

This came in the wake of strained relations between the Kenya and Bretton Woods institutions in 1993. Then, Kenya was resisting the infamous structural adjustment programmes.

The team

Moi chose his team well. Martin Oduor-Otieno was head-hunted from Barclays Bank of Kenya and appointed finance permanent secretary (PS). Titus Naikuni was poached from Magadi Soda Company and appointed transport and communications minister.

Dr Wilfred Mwangi was picked to be energy PS. Others in the team were Mwaghazi Mwachofi (finance), Kitili Mbathi (investment) and Shem Migot-Adhola (agriculture).

The team hit the ground running with three items on its agenda: to streamline the civil service, restore crumbling parastatals back to profitability and embark on a charm offensive to the donor community and investors.
"

Obaaderemi2:
They picked the white man because they knew you Kenyans were stvpid.

Now you admit the white settler was racist. How many times have we told you here that the white settlers and Indians see you black Kenyans as slaves? So you knew?

GeneralDae:
Resource dependent countries generally have low tax to GDP and even Norway has low tax to GDP by the standards of their peers.

In addition to this, Nigerian data is also a bit reasonable because out of a working population of 90 million people, only 13 million people (complete total since 1960) paid tax across board up until 2016. Now it is increasing to over 20 million people (complete total). In addition, VAT was at 5% (lowest in Africa) until recently where it is 7.5%.

I agree that there is massive corruption in the Nigerian tax system especially at the state and local Government tax levels and there are massive leakages but my point is that there's no way Kenya is making that much revenue officially and it doesn't show in other areas like your exports and manufacturing outputs.

Compare your revenues to that of Egypt and Morocco for instance and then compare your manufacturing output and your exports to theirs and also compare your working population to get my drift. Something doesn't add up somewhere. Now I'm beginning to believe KaziKazi.

Nigeria has not taken taxation seriously. VAT rate for example is low and there are so many loopholes in the tax net. This is because the government relies primarily on oil revenue. Now the oil curse is being lifted. We got no choice but to tax aggressively. What with the huge debts.

This is where the next election comes in. With what Tinubu did on taxation in Lagos, I see him trippling tax income if he becomes president. And he is not a soft man. I don't like the man and can never vote for him but as things stand it's hard to imagine him losing that election, unless he dies before election day.

Mkenya2019:
Legendary Moi had a start-stop IMF dance in 1990s.
Post-cold-war - Kenya who was Western allie - and fairly democratic - suddenly found itself in the cross-roads.
Western nations in short, dumped Moi, Mobutu, Kaundu and few pro-western allies - and demanded democracy.
They now didnt need any support - with collapse of USSR.

That happened in 1990s - just a year of end of cold war in 1989 - or collapse of USSR.

Kenya which then depended 60% of the economy and forex from aid from western nation - had it suspended for gross human rights violation.

They just woke up one day - US, EU, Norway, IMF, WB - and said all AID to kenya was out.

What followed - with 60% of forex drop - KSHS went haywire - from exchanging at fixed 20 shs to a dollar since 1963 - it went to 65
Inflation went through the roof - bread use to be 2 bob - it went 16 shs I remember.
Overnight there was financial chaos and ruin.
My father who had small loan...found the loan had trippled.

Many regimes went bankrupt and fell over. Zaire Mobutu, Kaundu and others didn't survive.

Moi survived. He played IMF/WB/US/EU like guitar. He would accept reforms - they open the taps. He would renege. They would stop. He would then again go back and accept reforms. They open the taps.

I think btw that period there was almost an IMF program every year until 2003 ouster of MOi/KANU.

As final Coupe Degrace - Moi allowed IMF to pick the cabinet and their gov - because the distrust had become too much - IMF swiftly looked for white kenyan and made him our civil service head - and fired so many people from gov - teachers name it - nobody was spared.

Brilliant Moi - then had White kenya and the IMF DREAM TEAM - fired after taking political flank for unpopular reforms.

Moi then blamed the white racist Leakey for hating africans and firing civil servants enmass. Leakey went from being liked to being hated by legions.

And finally he made huge mistake to pick UHuru - small drunkard idiot nobody knew as his successor - and KANU lost.

night moon story ....it doesn't change the fact you are a unrepentant debtor.l

Ghana and Nigeria had billions of debt forgiven.
And you're back to insolvency.
That seem impossible to solve without another round of debt forgiveness.

Kenya has not had any debt forgiven - the worst we have had is rescheduling.

Ghana you're back to HEAVILY INDEBTED POOR COUNTRIES. Kenya was never part of it.

Once the maths for restructuring is out - it will be very clear - that debt forgiveness from bilateral and multilateral donors will be ONLY WAY out for Ghana. Then you can battle the Eurobonds and domestic debt.

vaxx:
night moon story ....it doesn't change the fact you are a unrepentant debtor.l

End the fuel subsidies first. That is money in the bank. It's will take political cojones. Oil revenues are now going mostly to financing the stupid Fuel subsidies. It's crazy. You sell crude oil then subsidize refined oil using the proceeds.

Obaaderemi2:
Nigeria has not taken taxation seriously. VAT rate for example is low and there are so many loopholes in the tax net. This is because the government relies primarily on oil revenue. Now the oil curse is being lifted. We got no choice but to tax aggressively. What with the huge debts.

This is where the next election comes in. With what Tinubu did on taxation in Lagos, I see him trippling tax income if he becomes president. And he is not a soft man. I don't like the man and can never vote for him but as things stand it's hard to imagine him losing that election, unless he dies before election day.

vaxx:
night moon story ....it doesn't change the fact you are a unrepentant debtor.l

Mkenya2019:
I only admit you have English comprehension problem.
I didnt say Leakey was racist - he was NOT.

This here below is called 'an expression of thought'. You should have worded it differently but I bet you had to succumb to the poor literacy teaching you got in your village school in Kenya.

Mkenya2019 :
Moi then blamed the white racist Leakey for hating
africans and firing civil servants enmass. Leakey went
from being liked to being hated by legions.

I knew you were waiting to shout kenya is indian or white bla de bla.

Obaaderemi2:
This here below is called 'an expression of thought'. You should have worded it differently but I bet you had to succumb to the poor literacy teaching you got in your village school in Kenya.

Mkenya2019:
End the fuel subsidies first. That is money in the bank. It's will take political cojones. Oil revenues are now going mostly to financing the stupid Fuel subsidies. It's crazy. You sell crude oil then subsidize refined oil using the proceeds.

You can't teach us anything. You actually tried to copy the fuel subsidy system from us last year and you fell flat on your back.
We knew for years we have to reduce or cut the subsidy off and Buhari already announced that subsidies would stop this year. Tinubu and Obi already have that on their agenda.
But even with subsidy or without it, we still need to block the loopholes in our tax net and increase tax. Imagine how much we would make if VAT rate was 15%.

Mkenya2019:
I knew you were waiting to shout kenya is indian or white bla de bla.

Because I'm correct. The same way you talk about the South African case.

Can you mention any company owned by a Kenyan citizen doing well outside Kenya without mentioning an Indian?

Kenya fuel stabilization fund was different from fuel subsidy that it morphed into when desperate Uhuru wanted to win election.
Fuel stabilization fund is supposed to smooth seasonal price changes - not subsidize fuel prices.
This money is deducted from every litre of fuel sold - kept for the rainy days - then inflationary pressure when Ukraine-Russia fight eases out.

Nigeria fuel subsidy is total bonkers.
Tax collection may or may not improve with your best efforts.
Ending fuel subsidy will give your gov the oil revenue immediately.

Then your legislature can decide how to best spend the money.
Maybe building schools, hiring teachers and get the 10 million kids out of school is better expenditure than having people running around with cheap fuel on their 30yr old inefficient cars.
Maybe building roads will reduce the maintenance cost of running 50yr old trucks - that are wasting fuel.

In short let parliament decide the best expenditure of that money - in pro poor reforms - you're already world leader in poverty.

Obaaderemi2:
You can't teach us anything. You actually tried to copy the fuel subsidy system from us last year and you fell flat on your back.
We knew for years we have to reduce or cut the subsidy off and Buhari already announced that subsidies would stop this year. Tinubu and Obi already have that on their agenda.
But even with subsidy or without it, we still need to block the loopholes in our tax net and increase tax. Imagine how much we would make if VAT rate was 15%.