₦airaland Forum

Penguin2:
Then tell Tinubu to tell the Tribunal that the fine is for red light.

Sha remember that you lots denied the existence of this case when it came out. Now you are analyzing the degree of its consequence.

Same way you denied that Tinubu had Guinean Citizenship, only for Olanipekus to go to court and say that “once passport expires, citizenship expires.”

They have told the court already it is a civilcase and usa also said so, ur wailing on nairaland wont ever change it to criminal case no matter how much u wail.. Reality will hit u soon..

seunmsg:
Is there any sense in challenging an order from a civil case?

So, if VIO or FRSC fines me N5k today for traffic offense, is there any sense in wasting time challenging the order?

Since it’s a forfeiture resulting from a civil case, what’s the point fighting it? Tinubu was already a Senator when the forfeiture order was made against his account. So, it makes more sense to simply allow the civil forfeiture order stand than to keep wasting money on appeal. Same way we all pay VIO and FRSC fine for traffic offense without appeal.

We pay because you are guilty, stop talking please. TINUBU forfeited a huge $460k as father Christmas Abi?

I no understand how this forfeiture got to do with Obi being third in last election oooo

aswani:
So Obi's lawyers are no longer saying president Tinubu was convicted as per their petition, they are now talking about forfeiture. Effectively, we are now been told that he should be disqualified because he didn't appeal a forfeiture order.

True story from the US state of California . A hitman killed a serving police officer and somehow a police informant led the police to him.

The police case wasn't strong and in truth, though they wanted to nail him, they looked at the bigger picture. They did a deal with him whereby he was never convicted but he told them who hired him and served as a witness in court for the prosecution in the case against the officer that hired him who later got convicted.

No charges were brought against the hitman and he is still goes about his life without being treated as a felon though he has sworn on oath that he committed a murder.

Point is, like President Tinubu, the hitman might have been a naughty boy but he was never convicted of a crime to assume the status of a felon and can still vote (not sure if Cali is one of the states that barr convicted felons from voting sha).

On a side note, do Obi's lawyers even know the difference between a misdemeanor, felony or grand lacerny? If I pick up a parking fine in the US, would those bunch of jokers claim I can't contest as president?

It's a shame Obi didn't hire them pro bono, this case would have ended ages ago.

How much did the so called hitman forfeit?

Nakedtruths:
We pay because you are guilty, stop talking please. TINUBU forfeited a huge $460k as father Christmas Abi?

It is a non-conviction based forfeiture like VIO or FRSC fine. There was no trial or conviction so there are is no criminal status attached. You cannot lose your right to contest from a non-conviction forfeiture or fine. You guys should get yourself properly educated.

solreb:
You are partially right in the the primary case was of criminal nature. Investigations revealed that the criminals kept $460k with Tinubu who was not counted as one of the criminals. Typically the prosecutors approached the court to seize the funds and expectedly Tinubu raised no objection to the request because the money was not his. It was a civil case and fully determined and it is not at originating status. I believe that the primary criminal case end as well and the criminals jailed.

Just breath iiin and ouuut. Then reason it out.
TINUBU forfeited money in his account, whether criminal or civil, keep that in abeyance. The major contention is the word FORFEITURE. now Obi and labour party lawyers has been able to proof through senator bamidele that BAT forfeited money. According to Nigerian law established by the sc, FORFEITURE is a crime.

seunmsg:
It is a non-conviction based forfeiture like VIO or FRSC fine. There was no trial or conviction so there are is no criminal status attached. You cannot lose your right to contest from a non-conviction forfeiture or fine. You guys should get yourself properly educated.

Oga, supreme court of Nigeria said, FORFEITURE IS A CRIME.
They did not say criminal forfeiture is a crime neither did they say civil FORFEITURE is a crime. Oga FORFEITURE IS FORFEITURE AHHHHHH!!!

Nakedtruths:
We pay because you are guilty, stop talking please. TINUBU forfeited a huge $460k as father Christmas Abi?

So, does paying a fine to VIO make one a criminal felon? Does it take away your right to vote and be voted for? Do you go through trial and conviction before paying VIO fines?

Nakedtruths:
Oga, supreme court of Nigeria said, FORFEITURE IS A CRIME.
They did not say criminal forfeiture is a crime neither did they say civil FORFEITURE is a crime. Oga FORFEITURE IS FORFEITURE AHHHHHH!!!

In a criminal matter arising from a trial and conviction.

seunmsg:
In a criminal matter arising from a trial and conviction.

Supreme Court justice, declared that forfeiture MEANS “the loss of a right, privilege or property because of a crime

madridguy:
Obi should go and take some rest and allow our president breathhhhhhhh

No peace for a wicked thief

9jaRealist:
And how are BOTH mutually-exclusive?!
>

Let's even assume the court disqualifies Tinubu, how does that make obi the winner? He came third and didn't show us with figures how he got more lawful votes than Atiku to benefit from that decision. Pure madness!

You guys should get ready to insult the Judges after judgement is delivered.

9jaRealist:
Tales by the Moonlight…
NOBODY who confesses to criminal homicide under oath in a court of law is let go without an immunity agreement.

So, are you positing that Tinubu had an immunity deal with the US Dept of Justice?!
If so, those are ALWAYS signed agreements, and relative easy documentation evidence to provide.
>

Whether you believe it or not us your own problem.

I did not say anything about immunity, I likened what happened to the fact that you could conceivable have done a wrong and the law is aware but not necessarily being convicted for it.

Obi's plea to the Tribunal for President Tinubu's disqualification is that he was convicted on drug charges. He clearly wasn't.

CELEBRITIZ:
Its obvious u didn't read the petition .

It is obvious you don't understand the Petition if you did read it.

seunmsg:
Is there any sense in challenging an order from a civil case?

So, if VIO or FRSC fines me N5k today for traffic offense, is there any sense in wasting time challenging the order?

Since it’s a forfeiture resulting from a civil case, what’s the point fighting it? Tinubu was already a Senator when the forfeiture order was made against his account. So, it makes more sense to simply allow the civil forfeiture order stand than to keep wasting money on appeal. Same way we all pay VIO and FRSC fine for traffic offense without appeal.

Wots d correlation in d example u just gave? Gosh!
U know wots drug offense? Are u joking?

Wot has vio/traffic offence got to do with narcotics?

And yes, if u're innocent, u should appeal it.

U're dangerous to humanity!

iLoveYouToo:
What’s he challenging it for? There was a forfeiture for fvck sake, he’s not denying that. It wasn’t a criminal matter

Narcotics and money laundry not a criminal matter...?

FSBoperator:
So now we have switched from wining the elections to that Tinubu was not fit to contest.

Ok
Got it.

Are u sleepy?

He has several petitions against him.

One is dat he didn't win d election. And even if court and INEC succeed in dia mago-mago and declares him d winner, another petition says he's not even qualified to contest.

Hard to comprehend?

[quote author=seunmsg post=124574164]Is there any sense in challenging an order from a civil case?

So, if VIO or FRSC fines me N5k today for traffic offense, is there any sense in wasting time challenging the order?

Since it’s a forfeiture resulting from a civil case, what’s the point fighting it? Tinubu was already a Senator when the forfeiture order was made against his account. So, it makes more sense to simply allow the civil forfeiture order stand than to keep wasting money on appeal. Same way we all pay VIO and FRSC fine for traffic offense without appeal.

You are a real disgrace to you family.

OfficialAPCNig:
Read the address

You throw in every advantages you have to the ring to win a case. LP prayer is for the court to declare PO as the winner or invalidate Tinubu and declare a rerun

so the court Will jump over someone that came second and declare 3rd the Winner without any cause?

So, this why Obi won the election? Clowns..

MySolace:
Wots d correlation in d example u just gave? Gosh!
U know wots drug offense? Are u joking?

Wot has vio/traffic offence got to do with narcotics?

And yes, if u're innocent, u should appeal it.

U're dangerous to humanity!

VIO and FRSC fines are non-conviction fines. That you accept and pay doesn’t make you a criminal felon. You won’t lose your right to vote and be voted for simply because you were fined by VIO and FRSC. The same thing is applicable to Tinubu’s forfeiture. It is a non-conviction forfeiture. There was no trial, there was no conviction.

Again, why should a Senator leave Nigeria to go and appeal a non-conviction forfeiture? Are you even aware the US government froze the entire account initially and later returned over $1m dollars of his money to him? They money forfeited was an amount payed into his account by a friend and not really his personal money. So, why waste money and time to appeal in such a situation?

In Obi's final written addresses, he prays the Presidential Elections Petition Court to upturn the victory of president Asiwaju Bola Ahmed Tinubu citing that the president did not challenge the US court order of competent jurisdiction of 1993 forfeiting $460,000 belonging to Tinubu and others believe to be part of narcotics dealings.
Obi has made one prayer before the tribunal.

However, sections 28, 137 1(a)(d)(e). 137, 2(c)(d)(e) does not call for disqualifications of a candidate for not appealing a court order of any kind, no section of the Nigerian constitution or Electoral Act says a person shall not qualify to contest an election for not appealing court order.

seunmsg:
VIO and FRSC fines are non-conviction fines. That you accept and pay doesn’t make you a criminal felon. You won’t lose your right to vote and be voted for simply because you were fined by VIO and FRSC. The same thing is applicable to Tinubu’s forfeiture. It is a non-conviction forfeiture. There was no trial, there was no conviction.

Again, why should a Senator leave Nigeria to go and appeal a non-conviction forfeiture? Are you even aware the US government froze the entire account initially and later returned over $1m dollars of his money to him? They money forfeited was an amount payed into his account by a friend and not really his personal money. So, why waste money and time to appeal in such a situation?

Lol... Like I asked, are u joking?
Why waste time and money to appeal $400k?

... unbelievable...

pquaver:
They have told the court already it is a civilcase and usa also said so, ur wailing on nairaland wont ever change it to criminal case no matter how much u wail.. Reality will hit u soon..

Look at the encircled again, did you see anywhere the constitution said the fine must be criminal in nature?

Shantyken:
Are u wiser than the US that did not convict or forfeit the said money from Tinubu's account as criminal case

The issue in contention here is fine as used by the constitution.

Tinubu was fined. This fact is not in contention.

Now, look at this subsection again, did you see anywhere that the constitution said the fine must be of criminal proceedings?

sangresan:
Obi and his lawyers are running round in circles to the amusement of intelligent Nigerians.

1. This was a civil forfeiture and it happens everyday in America with overzealous law enforcement agents.

2. Since it's not a criminal conviction and forfeiture, many Americans prefer not to challenge since the legal fees are likely to be more than the confiscated property or money.

3. This happened some 30 something years ago and it has never been admitted by a Nigerian law court. America and Nigeria have different legal systems and that's why Tinubu came to the Tribunal with a witness who was a qualified American lawyer to explain what is meant by civil forfeiture in America.

4. Obi didn't come to the Tribunal with any American lawyer nor did he invite American law enforcement officials to testify for him.

5. Even if it was a criminal conviction, the Nigerian Constitution stipulated that such a person could contest for public office after 10 years. In America presently, President Donald Trump is set to contest for President next year despite his conviction. There are always clauses and clauses to explore in the legal system.


6. The Inspector General of Police of Nigeria wrote the FBI in 2003 to ask them if Bola Tinubu had a criminal record in the U.S. The reply from the State Department was negative. A copy of the reply has been tendered at the ongoing Tribunal. So, it's basically a no-case.

7. Obi's and his minions claim he won the election, but his lawyers have not been able to prove how he won it, other than trying to get Tinubu disqualified.

8. I dare say if the election is conducted 500 times, Obi cannot win. If it's Obi vs. Atiku, Obi cannot see draw. He can continue to deceive his gullible people till thy kingdom come.

Look at this subsection D very well again.

And keep in mind that the issue in contention here is fine.

Now did you see anywhere the constitution said the fine must be of criminal proceedings?

Again look at well and read to the end, can you point to where the constitution talked about 10 years validity in that subsection?

Lotanna2:
Did atiku prove that he voluntarily acquired the citizenship?

Has citizenship ever been imposed on anyone?

If yes, give an instance please.

seunmsg:
Is there any sense in challenging an order from a civil case?

So, if VIO or FRSC fines me N5k today for traffic offense, is there any sense in wasting time challenging the order?

Since it’s a forfeiture resulting from a civil case, what’s the point fighting it? Tinubu was already a Senator when the forfeiture order was made against his account. So, it makes more sense to simply allow the civil forfeiture order stand than to keep wasting money on appeal. Same way we all pay VIO and FRSC fine for traffic offense without appeal.

The money was not a fine but forfeiture because of certain bad stuffs

anonymous1759:

I thought Obi had fresh evidence against this case some of his supporters bragged that they’ll summon FBI, CIA , FSB to come testify against BAT that the case has taken a new twist not knowing he’s just brainwashing them . I can’t help but to laugh , the hype they hyped Obi’s prayers saying he took APC off guard not knowing he has nothing to tender . It’s crazy how the so called “WOKE” wannabes are Fast ASLEEP intellectually. After all the rants he couldn’t prove an air .

Imagine

You go to Tribunal on election matter and what we are reading is not about Ballot Box snatching or Over voting or Over counting Or Election not held in some parts of the country etc but only on cases to be taken by other court that are not meant for election matter

I pity OBI Malaysia, he should be ready for Tinubu Legal team after supreme court ruling favours Tinubu. He will explain Malaysia issues and if convicted to be involved no presidential pardon for him ooo

Penguin2:
Look at the encircled again, did you see anywhere the constitution said the fine must be criminal in nature?

Does this include parking fines at all?

By the way, President Tinubu wasn't fined, he forfeited monies in his account that were proved not his.

casualobserver:
I swear you are daft!!! You don’t even know the meaning of “or”. “Or” means if any of the conditions apply. None of the conditions apply because he is neither “under sentence” nor has he been convicted in the last 10 yrs.

Go and ask a lawyer the meaning of “under sentence”

I swear you people are daft!

Go and look for mike izekhone’s interview yesterday in the Akwa Ibom governors case. Don’t think because a lawyer is taking a case to court, the plaintiff has a case. Very often a lawyer will proceed with a case he knows he cannot win. Either for money or because his client wants him to despite advice.


Listen to Ezekome talk about a lawyer bringing a case to court similar to the same case he brought to court previously and was dismissed previously. ClearLy showing the lawyer knows he is going to lose. When defendants are closing their case in 1 day with 1 witness it shows you have no case. Your case is open and shut, flimsy. Mind you this is the same Ezekome that is usually on PDP or IPOB side o.


Nothing more to say!

Lol. Can you stick to logic and reasoning and discard insults? Isn’t that what reasonable and refined people do?

Now to the issues you raised…

If I give you money to go and buy food for me and I tell you to buy either rice or beans or spaghetti or macaroni or bread, do I mean you should buy all these items or that one is okay?

Talking about 10 years, I’m going to reproduce subsection D for your perusal. I would like you to either download or screenshot and underline where 10 years is written in the provision and repost for me.

I want us to stick to facts and letters of the constitution, not conjectures.

Penguin2:
Lol. Can you stick to logic and reasoning and discard insults? Isn’t that what reasonable and refined people do?

Now to the issues you raised…

If I give you money to go and buy food for me and I tell you to buy either rice or beans or spaghetti or macaroni or bread, do I mean you should buy all these items or that one is okay?

Talking about 10 years, I’m going to reproduce subsection D for your perusal. I would like you to either download or screenshot and underline where 10 years is written in the provision and repost for me.

I want us to stick to facts and letters of the constitution, not conjectures.

You are daft. It’s not abuse, it’s a statement of fact.

T

I have told you the meaning of “under sentence”, if you fail to understand that, you will fail to understand everything else in subSection d.

There is a difference between “sentenced” and “under sentence”. You are sentenced the minute your punishment is pronounced, until you serve your sentence you are “under sentence”, once you serve your sentence, you are no longer “under sentence”.. The more I interact with you Ob1diots the more I understand why such a daft man could have hoodwinked so many people. You are all daft, again I am not saying that to abuse, you people really have a very very low IQ.

https://www.lawinsider.com/dictionary/under-sentence-of-imprisonment

“Under sentence of imprisonment means while serving a term of imprisonment, while under a suspended sentence, while on probation or parole, or while on work-release, furlough, escape, or any other type of release or freedom, while or after serving a term of imprisonment, other than unconditioned release and freedom after expiration of term of sentence.”

Read below for an example of the disctinction between people who are under sentence and those have been convicted of an offense but are no longer “under sentence” to understand what it means to be “under sentence”.

https://lawexplores.com/consequences-and-the-perils-of-categorical-ambiguity/