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During the 2023 Annual Meeting of Jehovah's witnesses, especially the part 2, two talks by David Splane and Geoffrey Jackson revealed the new understanding JWs now have about the fate of the Sodomites, those in Noah's day, those who live from now until before Armageddon. In all, their conclusion is that they don't know, in other words, they are not dogmatic about their fate. These will mean that they don't even know the fate of those in Babylon the Great, and in fact all who are not JWs, including those they call apostates. All these persons might as well come up to meet them in their paradise earth.

Why has JWs landed themselves into this state of confusion? There are two doctrinal errors that I have noticed caused this. As it is said, one theological error, leads to another.

The confusion comes because of their misunderstanding of the timing of the Judgment Day/White Throne Judgment and what will happen during the thousand year reign of Christ.

Let's take it one at a time.

1. Timing of the Judgment Day:

The JWs teach that the judgment day recorded at Rev 20:13-15; John 5:28,29 will all occur during the thousand year reign of Christ. During that time, according to JW, a resurrection will occur.

In a Watchtower article, of February 1, 1974, it says:

"...The context thus shows that the general resurrection of the dead takes place after the “former heaven and the former earth” pass away. When does this take place? According to 2 Peter 3:10, the former heavens and earth are to pass away in “Jehovah’s day.” That day, according to 2 Pe 3 verses 3 through 6, will catch ridiculers unprepared, as did the flood of Noah’s day, and therefore precedes the thousand-year reign of Christ."

In other words, after the destruction at Armageddon, the next stage is the thousand year reign of Christ. Armageddon, according to them, will destroy the figurative heaven and earth. This will usher in the Millennial reign. This millennial reign is seen by JWs as paradise like the Garden of Eden before Adam and Eve sinned. So it's very important time for any to inherit.

Seeing that these paradise is a place of happiness, that this paradise is God's kingdom, the problem then is, John 5:28,29 and Rev 20:13-15, shows that those that will be available during these period are not only the righteous, but also the unrighteous will be there. (Compare also Acts 24:15). Who then are these unrighteous ones? That is the bone of contention. They try to ascertain whom these are by checking what the bible says about Shoel/Hades, laid to rest with ancestors etc. All those captured by these expressions are seen to merit a resurrection into the Millennial reign. They also posit previously that those who died during the flood, or died in Sodom won't be raised. But now, they use Matt 11:23,24 to show that some in Sodom and in Noah's day might be resurrected to be in paradise.

So, a faithful JWs will be going into paradise, not to enjoy, but to live with wicked persons and then go through the work of preaching to them as they do today. What will help them reconcile this confusion?

The judgment mention at Rev 20:11-15 will not happen during the thousand year reign of Christ. This is made clear at Rev 20;4,5. It says:

And I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given authority to judge. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed for the witness they gave about Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had not worshipped the wild beast or its image and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for 1,000 years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were ended.) This is the first resurrection."

What do we learn here:

The righteous church will rise to heaven in the first resurrection. This church will reign with Christ for a thousand year. Who will they reign over?

After Satan is cast into abyss, see what Verse 3 says:
"so that he would not mislead the nations anymore until the 1,000 years were ended. After this he must be released for a little while."

There will be people, the nations, that will remain to be ruled by the church, the Saints. During this period of thousand years, the second resurrection won't occur. That is why verse 5 says the rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. After the thousand years however, what will happen?

Rev 20:7-10 shows exactly what will happen. Satan will be released, he will go out to tempt people. He will gain many, and they will advance towards the beloved city, but finally, fire from heaven will kill then off and Satan will be hurled into the lake of fire. After these, which will take considerable time, verse 11-15 then starts to fulfill. All the dead that weren't raised during the first resurrection will now be resurrected and to be judged according to their deeds.

Why then did the JWs start to think that this event will occur immediately after Armageddon? The article quoted above gave the reason, because Rev 20:11 says before the White Throne Judge, "the heaven and earth fled" .

They understand this to mean when the present world is destroyed. But that doesn't have to be a hinderance, first, as at the time this verse 11 is under fulfillment, the recent world that fled is the one that Satan ruled after he was released from Abyss. This could be the heaven and earth being referred to. Secondly, the account didn't say that it was immediately the judge came that this heaven and earth fled. It could just be saying that it was God that caused the heaven and earth to flee during Armageddon, not meaning that it fled when he showed up. Thirdly, that view of the judgment goes against the sequence of occurrence found from verse 1-10. In fact verses 4 and 5 shows how illogical such reasoning is.

2. How People Will Be Judged:

One of the confusions JWs run into is how the wicked will be judged during the thousand year reign.

Rev 20:11-15 shows that people will be judged from the scrolls opened according to their deeds. JWs believe that these deeds won't be the deeds these persons did in their former life. But the one they will do during the millenium. Why believe that? They feel that Rom 6:7 cancels ones' sin when he dies. So he will be coming into the millennium with clean slate as it were. But is that correct?

Let's see one of the scriptures quoted by David Splane during the Annual Meeting. See how it handles this problem. Matt 11

But I say to you, it will be more endurable for Tyre and Siʹdon on Judgment Day than for you.  23 And you, Ca·perʹna·um, will you perhaps be exalted to heaven? Down to the Grave you will come; because if the powerful works that took place in you had taken place in Sodʹom, it would have remained until this very day.  24 But I say to you, it will be more endurable for the land of Sodʹom on Judgment Day than for you.”

Notice that Capernaum showed lack of faith in Jesus. But Jesus is not saying that the judgment for their unbelief will be faced at that time when they die. No. but that they would face judgement for their unbelief during the judgement. At that time people of Tyre will still be facing there's.

In other words, when those in Capernaum is resurrected, they will be judged according to the actions they displayed while Jesus and his disciples preached during the first century.

Jesus brought out that same point at Matt 12. It says:

"Offspring of vipers, how can you speak good things when you are wicked? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. 35 The good man out of his good treasure sends out good things, whereas the wicked man out of his wicked treasure sends out wicked things. 36 I tell you that men will render an account on Judgment Day for every unprofitable saying that they speak; 37 for by your words you will be declared righteous, and by your words you will be condemned.”

When will these people pay for what they speak against Jesus? Verse 36 says, during the Judgment Day.

People Will be judged individually according to what they do NOW, not future. It is to be noted that Rom 6:7 is not even talking about literal death, but spiritual one. He who dies to his former sin has been forgiven of it. Simple. That is the context. You don't have to create roadblock for yourself over that.

Jesus words at John 5:29 carry the same meaning. .

29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

So you need to beware of this new teaching. They will make you think that if you misbehave now, God will give you another chance of a thousand years in paradise to change. That is a mirage. It doesn't exist. What you do now will be judged in the Judgement Day after the thousand year reign of Christ. And note that it will be more endurable for Sodom during that judgment than for you. God might understand the rebellion of sodomites considering the period of time they lived in, but one who lived now that the gospel is available in your finger tips, I wonder how you will defend your actions before God that time. Repent, Repent, Repent Now.

Sand2022:
During the 2023 Annual Meeting of Jehovah's witnesses, especially the part 2, two talks by David Splane and Geoffrey Jackson revealed the new understanding JWs now have about the fate of the Sodomites, those in Noah's day, those who live from now until before Armageddon. In all, their conclusion is that they don't know, in other words, they are not dogmatic about their fate. These will mean that they don't even know the fate of those in Babylon the Great, and in fact all who are not JWs, including those they call apostates. All these persons might as well come up to meet them in their paradise earth.

You're just funny walahi talahi!

So because we said some might not even have had the opportunity to gain insight so as to be saved that means even people opposing God's organization conscientiously can also enter the kingdom of our God shey?

Continue deceiving yourself!

What we're saying is this:

Jesus preached for so many years and the thief have had about him but then he's not sure if Jesus is the promised Christ so while still contemplating on what to do with Jesus' case he was caught and sentenced to death only for him to meet the same Jesus on the torture stake. With his state of mind he has condemned himself already knowing fully well that he misused his opportunity of becoming one of Jesus' disciples but now that all hope is lost he doesn't know how to approach the man of his dream not until his cohort asked Jesus to perform his usual miracles that this heartbroken sinner raised his voice and rebuked his fellow culprit.

From what happened there are both sinners on the same page?

That's what we are saying.

Many doesn't understand what Noah was saying back then not until the rain began and destroyed all of them. God will not continue being wrathful with those ignorant ones so on the day of resurrection they will be given the opportunity to see Noah in Paradise you can imagine how they will humbly kiss his feet and readily do whatever that righteous man tells them afterwards. But what about those making jest of Noah and even insulting him for the work he was doing?

MaxInDHouse:
You're just funny walahi talahi!

So because we said some might not even have had the opportunity to gain insight so as to be saved that means even people opposing God's organization conscientiously can also enter the kingdom of our God shey?

Continue deceiving yourself!

What we're saying is this:

Jesus preached for so many years and the thief have had about him but then he's not sure if Jesus is the promised Christ so while still contemplating on what to do with Jesus' case he was caught and sentenced to death only for him to meet the same Jesus on the torture stake. With his state of mind he has condemned himself already knowing fully well that he misused his opportunity of becoming one of Jesus' disciples but now that all hope is lost he doesn't know how to approach the man of his dream not until his cohort asked Jesus to perform his usual miracles that this heartbroken sinner raised his voice and rebuked his fellow culprit.

From what happened there are both sinners on the same page?

That's what we are saying.

Many doesn't understand what Noah was saying back then not until the rain began and destroyed all of them. God will not continue being wrathful with those ignorant ones so on the day of resurrection they will be given the opportunity to see Noah in Paradise you can imagine how they will humbly kiss his feet and readily do whatever that righteous man tells them afterwards. But what about those making jest of Noah and even insulting him for the work he was doing?

Maybe you didn't understand the broadcast. The point of the broadcast is that your GB don't know. Yes, even about those in Babylon the Great that conscientiously oppose your organization. They don't know even if those ones will be resurrected. Maybe you should go and rewatch it. Geoffrey Jackson's last talk advise that you should preach and leave out the judgment aspect for God and Jesus.

The thought the GB has is that one can only be destroyed or die everlastingly if he has received the FULL opportunity to join your Organization. Now how much teaching, preaching shows that one has gotten that full opportunity? There answer; they don't know. Even if those people die during the GT, they say they don't know if they will be resurrected. No one can establish if they have got the full opportunity from Jehovah's standpoint to change.

The whole point of the Broadcast is that they don't know who will or who will not be resurrected.

All these confusion came because they want to elevate the doctrines of men over the Word of God.

One of the ridiculous doctrine of Watchtower is the teaching of preaching to those unbelievers that will be resurrected.

Do you need to preach to a resurrected person before the person believe in God?

Of course judgment is in God's hands but we know that whoever willfully oppose God's word will not be resurrected.
So stop deceiving yourself!

Sand2022:
Maybe you didn't understand the broadcast. The point of the broadcast is that your GB don't know. Yes, even about those in Babylon the Great that conscientiously oppose your organization. They don't know even if those ones will be resurrected. Maybe you should go and rewatch it. Geoffrey Jackson's last talk advise that you should preach and leave out the judgment aspect for God and Jesus.
The thought the GB has is that one can only be destroyed or die everlastingly if he has received the FULL opportunity to join your Organization. Now how much teaching, preaching shows that one has gotten that full opportunity? There answer; they don't know. Even if those people die during the GT, they say they don't know if they will be resurrected. No one can establish if they have got the full opportunity from Jehovah's standpoint to change.
The whole point of the Broadcast is that they don't know who will or who will not be resurrected.

MaxInDHouse:
Of course judgment is in God's hands but we know that whoever willfully oppose God's word will not be resurrected.
So stop deceiving yourself!

You just agreed with what I said which you previously didn't understand. Yet you say I should stop deceiving myself. Only you!

Remember we are discussing what the Annual Meeting point is. As to what the scriptures say about who will be resurrected, I said it in the op.

Sand2022:
You just agreed with what I said which you previously didn't understand. Yet you say I should stop deceiving myself. Only you!
Remember we are discussing what the Annual Meeting point is. As to what the scriptures say about who will be resurrected, I said it in the op.

Whoever has known the truth but keep turning against it will not be resurrected!