₦airaland Forum

bdon123:
Yes we will criticize.Do u hav an idea how mch Egypt makes frm suez canal alone in a year?

Average of $2.5 bn

That figure has drastically dropped thanks to the several ship attacks carried out by terrorist in Yemen

Killerofpigs:
Renewed shege promax

stop wishing your only country evil

phorget:
The first thing to check for is the ROI regarding every investments, definitely they would have considered the ROI before embarking on such development. However can we really say same thing about Nigeria? the level of embezzlement would have killed every intended profit even before kick off. What has happened to the rail line built from Nigeria to Niger? What about the other rail line that was attacked by some bandits sometimes ago? what are the ROI on those infrastructures?

The next one is the white elephant project tagged COASTAL HIGHWAY, theres no crime in building infrastructures with loan but the problem is accountability on the part of the government, unfortunately they cant really be trusted.

The comment I replied didn't talk about ROI, rather he's against using loans to build infrastructures, countries build infrastructures on debts, that's the point.
On the part that the money will be embezzled is understood, but that was not his point.
Kano-Maradi rail is under construction, if every single project is put under ROI, most infrastructures won't be standing, leadership is always easy when you are sitting in the crowd, there are infrastructures that are there to boost the presence of other infrastructures or to make other infrastructures relevant.
That's how it is.

MEEVEET:
No route can make 20% of their running cost not to talk about being profitable

Those trains are just loan wasted on feel good projects

Feel good??

They are Embezzlement tactics project

bdon123:
Yes we will criticize.Do u hav an idea how mch Egypt makes frm suez canal alone in a year?

Egypt didn't build Suez Canal, I don't know what you have been reading and I don't know how the canal made it into this discussion because Nigeria was not even existing when this canal was built.
How much has Egypt made from it's new capital?
Yet if it is done in Nigeria today, you all will criticize it because you don't like the government just like you are all critîcizing the coastal highway.
The reason why Egypt is building a new capital as cited by El-sisi is to decongest Cairo and accommodate growing population, if that attempt is made in Nigeria to decongest Lagos today, you all will cry and cry but will praise Egypt for it.

Nigeria as a country has detailed many years ago in the area of governance that's why am not surprised.

pocom16:
Average of $2.5 bn

That figure has drastically dropped thanks to the several ship attacks carried out by terrorist in Yemen

Nothing has dropped my brother,d only time that dropped was wen a ship got stuck few years ago.
Anyway u get d point, Egypt has gas,has a booming tourist industry n prolific maritime industry.they are better in infrastructure than us.i have been there ano.

MEEVEET:
Feel good projects are status project, they are important yes but not needed

They are wants not basics needs
Cocoa house, niger bridge, rail,

They are good if u use revenue to build them... But borrowing to build them makes no sense

Tales of two cities.
If you're a leader with this view you'll be a minimalist hoping for revenue that won't come and just like minimalist countries your economy will come down tumbling...

But being aggressively innovative is a two edge swords either its catapult you to higher economic height or plagues you with debt crumbling situations.
(Like successive billionaires always says they're successful because they take the risk and are not minimalist.) so I'll choose the later.

MEEVEET:
Feel good projects are status project, they are important yes but not needed

They are wants not basics needs
Cocoa house, niger bridge, rail,

They are good if u use revenue to build them... But borrowing to build them makes no sense

who defined railway as a status project? if railway is important, why then is it not needed?

who told you that it cant generate revenue? have you ever used a train to travel interstate in Nigeria?

MEEVEET:
And their economy is feeling it
Currency has devalued by 50% since

But you will fly to the new capital tomorrow to take pictures that you are living a good life and they will recover all the money spent by your visit and that of others.
Infrastructures need loans, what you should complain is that Ioans should be used judiciously.

MEEVEET:
Yes ooh we agree but why is the rail not breaking even then

Rail is not meant to break even, this is even a government project. What you should be asking is if the rail road has added to the economy of the states between its route? If it has improved productivity within its service area and if there has been further development in the route corridor. Because at the end all the money either from NRC, taxes and so on goes to the government as REVENUE.

Check around the world more than 95% railway sectors doesn't make profit, even some private entities are still subsidized and financed by government

MEEVEET:
Yes the are essential but building them with loan is foolishness especially when revenue is less than debt servicing and recurrent expenditure like Nigeria

It's same as a struggling man using loan to build mansion in his village

Actually, it is not. People take loans to start businesses.

The point is, given the economic profile of Nigeria, moving goods through rail should have been the priority (within the context of our specific discussion).

Cargo rail services is a straight up business and companies will pay cost reflective prices.

Of course, there would still be issues of security and management, but one thing at a time.

Simeonjoe1:
You don't lose money by building rails, either passenger or cargo, the effect of rail is not in the direct ROI or annual profits but its greater contribution to the economy, its improve productivity, standard of living, tourism, industrialization, connectivity etc. This itself add billions to the economy far more than what a 100× a profit would.

But at the end, the railways still have to make a profit to pay for things, and if they are not making a profit, it's government funding, which in NIgeria is not sufficent, corruption aside....we don't even charge enough in tax to begin with, and oil earnings are not enough for a nation of 20 million talkless of 200 million.

SO, we take loans.

Choose your poison...high debt and economic issues incl running out of money.... or high prices, economic issues...but at least the chance of investment and growth.

These things happen.

The train company should conduct tests all along the tracks because if there is one weak spot, there might be others.

MEEVEET:
It seems you guys have problems understanding English

1) Nigeria revenue now cant when pay the interest for the loans we have taken in the past.... And you think the best thing to do is to increase the interest in loan without increasing revenue?

Jezzz can't you guys think?

I want you to see loans (ideal setting) as something dynamic both loan and revenue.
The more loans=more revenue.
If you have loans to pay and you rely on a fixated or slow growing revenue, you'll suffer.

We are usually myopic on the way we consider loans sometimes equating it to a simple microeconomics lens of individual entity.
We are dealing with a macroeconomic system, here you'll require an ever dynamic means of financing which requires loans as revenue
is never enough. As long as you make sure your more loans = to more revenue you'll always be fine.

You don't need to pay off 100% of all your loans. No country does that, it's never ideal.


The loans will grow your revenue

aieromon:
Passengers on the affected coaches were transferred to other coaches and the train continued its journey to Kubwa before arriving at its final destination in Idu at about 12.40pm.

That's good, it would have sucks to be held stranded in that bush.

MEEVEET:
Why don't you borrow money to buy your dream car?

America has more debt yes but lower debt to revenue ratio

Yes poor countries should focuse on building their revenues to get larger then they can invest in infrastructure

Do you want to call Nigeria a poor country?

nairalanda1:
But at the end, the railways still have to make a profit to pay for things, and if they are not making a profit, it's government funding, which in NIgeria is not sufficent, corruption aside....we don't even charge enough in tax to begin with, and oil earnings are not enough for a nation of 20 million talkless of 200 million.

SO, we take loans.

Choose your poison...high debt and economic issues incl running out of money.... or high prices, economic issues...but at least the chance of investment and growth.

Like I've said earlier loan is dynamic. Even if you make a hundreds of billions of dollars you'll still take loan.
Imagine Nigeria starts making 400bn dollars annual revenue, is this sufficient alone to bridge our infrastructure gap of more than 3trn dollars.... Nigeria will the take loan. The bigger your revenue =the bigger your loan =the bigger your economy = the more prosperous your country

Simeonjoe1:
Like I've said earlier loan is dynamic. Even if you make a hundreds of billions of dollars you'll still take loan.
Imagine Nigeria starts making 400bn dollars annual revenue, is this sufficient alone to bridge our infrastructure gap of more than 3trn dollars.... Nigeria will the take loan. The bigger your revenue =the bigger your loan =the bigger your economy = the more prosperous your country

You want us to make 400bn? that means we have to do more than just 'fight corruption and raise production of oil...' we got to run a diversified, productive economy with a wide enough tax net. YES...we have to still fight corruption.

Well, A rail all by itself will not generate a dime. We in Nigeria use ours to attend weddings, child naming ceremony and burials while in the west most rails are connected to industries. So, do the maths.

JagabanB:
Egypt is building a new capital with loan, they are running on huge debts, I'm sure experts like you will criticize it if it's Nigeria.

I think Egypt is in better shape than Nigeria as of today

Blaze14k:
I think Egypt is in better shape than Nigeria as of today

Because they build necessary stuffs, we don't have infrastructures here in Nigeria.
That's what you folks should learn, no country ever develops without infrastructures.

JagabanB:
Because they build necessary stuffs, we don't have infrastructures here in Nigeria.
That's what you folks should learn, no country ever develops without infrastructures.

Nigeria lack maintenance culture that is also something you should understand

MEEVEET:
Why not use loan to increase revenue then use it to equip the Heath centers

Why do you guys want things you can't afford

Good question. Let assume you're just elected as the governor of your state, you meet an empty Treasury and your no1 priority is the health sector which is already dead and your monthly allocations can only cover the workers salary. What are you going to do.

Remember the loan you intend to borrow to increase the revenue is not 100% guaranteed, you may use it well yet it won't bring any income.

Governance in Nigeria is not as easy as many think. Even if you're an Angel as a governor/president your success is not 100% sure unless all your cabinet members and the contractors that will be executing the projects are equally Angels.

I've done some businesses in Naija in the past and know how difficult it is to get good people to employ, most of the employees are after how to wreck your business.

In a country where the leaders and the followers are corrupt how do we expect development.

Those loans that they've already shared between themselves and use a meager part of it to do substandard project?

Most of all the companies over there are running on loans and they don't make much profits coz the executives/managers are looting more.

Blaze14k:
Nigeria lack maintenance culture that is also something you should understand

What is Nigeria?
Nigeria is made up of Nigerians who lacks maintenance culture.
Nigeria is non other than Nigerians.

Killerofpigs:
Renewed shege promax

If you get any sense, u go no sey na your brodas dem go don go remove some of the rail iron sell as condemned. The one wey dey remove tracking l8ght for 3rd mainland bridge wey we catch nko..

Xpol:
Good question. Let assume you're just elected as the governor of your state, you meet an empty Treasury and your no1 priority is the health sector which is already dead and your monthly allocations can only cover the workers salary. What are you going to do.

Remember the loan you intend to borrow to increase the revenue is not 100% guaranteed, you may use it well yet it won't bring any income.

Governance in Nigeria is not as easy as many think. Even if you're an Angel as a governor/president your success is not 100% sure unless all your cabinet members and the contractors that will be executing the projects are equally Angels.

I've done some businesses in Naija in the past and know how difficult it is to get good people to employ, most of the employees are after how to wreck your business.

In a country where the leaders and the followers are corrupt how do we expect development.

Those loans that they've already shared between themselves and use a meager part of it to do substandard project?

Most of all the companies over there are running on loans and they don't make much profits coz the executives/managers are looting more.

What I would do is simple
Borrow money 200 million dollars if I get

I would call on my state people who are ready to invest in the state health sector... Get an interest free loan of 1 to 2 million dollars
Special consideration would be given to none profit organizations like mission hospitals

50 million dollars would give every lga standard hospital.. Tho not free but standard

The remaining 150 million would be given to people who want to set up factories in specific areas of the economy which my state has comparative advantage with certain conditions

Minimum job creation, minimum wage for staffs

This would boast GDP, increase recent remove the Borden of debt servicing from me the state

ElevationD:
Do you want to call Nigeria a poor country?

Yes a very poor country, few resources per capita, low revenue per capita

We just have potential but presently very poor

Simeonjoe1:
I want you to see loans (ideal setting) as something dynamic both loan and revenue.
The more loans=more revenue.
If you have loans to pay and you rely on a fixated or slow growing revenue, you'll suffer.

We are usually myopic on the way we consider loans sometimes equating it to a simple microeconomics lens of individual entity.
We are dealing with a macroeconomic system, here you'll require an ever dynamic means of financing which requires loans as revenue
is never enough. As long as you make sure your more loans = to more revenue you'll always be fine.

You don't need to pay off 100% of all your loans. No country does that, it's never ideal.


The loans will grow your revenue

You are the one who is not getting me

So for you the only thing you can use loan for is infrastructure?

You don't know how to use loan to increase revenue? By investing in your people?

ivandragon:
Actually, it is not. People take loans to start businesses.

The point is, given the economic profile of Nigeria, moving goods through rail should have been the priority (within the context of our specific discussion).

Cargo rail services is a straight up business and companies will pay cost reflective prices.

Of course, there would still be issues of security and management, but one thing at a time.

What's the value of the business we move that you want to invest 10s of billions to move them

If businesses need rail to move around and it becomes a need they would build one

Simeonjoe1:
Rail is not meant to break even, this is even a government project. What you should be asking is if the rail road has added to the economy of the states between its route? If it has improved productivity within its service area and if there has been further development in the route corridor. Because at the end all the money either from NRC, taxes and so on goes to the government as REVENUE.

Check around the world more than 95% railway sectors doesn't make profit, even some private entities are still subsidized and financed by government

This is why u don't borrow to build rail for heavens sake

No wonder nigeria is like this

JagabanB:
But you will fly to the new capital tomorrow to take pictures that you are living a good life and they will recover all the money spent by your visit and that of others.
Infrastructures need loans, what you should complain is that Ioans should be used judiciously.

Yes ooh fly take pictures and leave them with their poor decision