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EnemyofGod3:
In the book of Genesis God created heaven and earth,before he created all other things.

We as human before you build your own house,is either you live in a rented apartment or you live in your father's house.but in this case God just from nowhere and created heaven and earth.

Christian's in the house can you tell us where was God when he created heaven and earth ?

Jamesaffiliate:
The only answer to this question is in Gen.1-1
Because it says the spirit of the lord was hovering over the face of the deep.

Just listen to yourself, those it makes sense to you ? imagine,see what an adult is saying, hovering over the face of the deep, what is deep ?

So God Is a spirit we humans may not know how spirit operate in their spirit realm.

If you are always comparing humans things with the one of the lord you will fail many times because God ways is different from ours, the way heaven and earth is far from each other that how our ways with his ways is far.

So with this said I think you are now convince that God was hovering on the face of the deep
When he is creating the heaven.

. I'm not convince because what you said here is scrapp.
We all know God is spirit so where was this spirit of God before he created heaven and earth ?

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oteneaaron:
By following the Hermetic Principle of Correspondence - To understand the Infinite, you must first understand the Finite.

As a human being, how do you create things?

Let's say you want to build a 2 bedroom apartment, what are the steps to take?

1. At first the house is nothing but an IDEA in your mind - it is not visible - in religious terminologies, you could say the house is only existing in the spiritual realm.

2. You give a brief to an architect who then makes a detailed drawing of the 2 bedroom apartment - at this stage the house/your idea is still not visible - it only exists on paper.

3. After the drawing is approved, you move to site and after the surveyor maps out the area, you buy cement, building blocks, sand, gravel and you pay for the mansory, etc.

4. When all of these is completed, that IDEA which was at first incoporeal, invisible and spiritual has now become a reality, visible and physical.

If that is how finite beings like us create, how much more our father who is infinite?

The entire cosmos with its billions of planets, black holes, galaxies and suns is nothing but an IDEA in the infinite mind of God which has manifested as a reality in our 3 dimensional plane of existence.

First the idea, then the manifestation.

The Bible explains this at John 1 VS 1

"In the beginning was the LOGOS, and the LOGOS was with God and the LOGOS was God."

In English, we misinterpret the LOGOS and simply call it the WORD.

In ancient Greek, the LOGOS meant the PRIMAL IDEA or the IDEA OF IDEAS.

I know it's quite philosophical but I hope this answers your question.

oteneaaron:
By following the Hermetic Principle of Correspondence - To understand the Infinite, you must first understand the Finite.

As a human being, how do you create things?

Let's say you want to build a 2 bedroom apartment, what are the steps to take?

1. At first the house is nothing but an IDEA in your mind - it is not visible - in religious terminologies, you could say the house is only existing in the spiritual realm.

2. You give a brief to an architect who then makes a detailed drawing of the 2 bedroom apartment - at this stage the house/your idea is still not visible - it only exists on paper.

3. After the drawing is approved, you move to site and after the surveyor maps out the area, you buy cement, building blocks, sand, gravel and you pay for the mansory, etc.

4. When all of these is completed, that IDEA which was at first incoporeal, invisible and spiritual has now become a reality, visible and physical.

If that is how finite beings like us create, how much more our father who is infinite?

The entire cosmos with its billions of planets, black holes, galaxies and suns is nothing but an IDEA in the infinite mind of God which has manifested as a reality in our 3 dimensional plane of existence.

First the idea, then the manifestation.

The Bible explains this at John 1 VS 1

"In the beginning was the LOGOS, and the LOGOS was with God and the LOGOS was God."

In English, we misinterpret the LOGOS and simply call it the WORD.

In ancient Greek, the LOGOS meant the PRIMAL IDEA or the IDEA OF IDEAS.

I know it's quite philosophical but I hope this answers your question.

Botragelad:
Oh, you think the Hermetic Principle of Correspondence is a compelling argument! But let's be real, your reasoning relies on a flawed analogy and a plethora of assumptions. Building a house is a human endeavor, governed by physical laws and cognitive processes! Ideas are just neural constructs, not magical entities bestowed upon you by a higher power.

And, shockingly, human effort and material resources are responsible for turning ideas into reality, not divine intervention.

How dare you attempt to scale up this analogy to the vast expanse of the cosmos! The universe's complexity can be explained by natural processes from evolution, gravity, and quantum mechanics, without even requiring a divine creator.

Please, spare me the philosophical jargon about the principle of correspondence. It's a tool, not empirical evidence for god's existence.

And as for John 1:1, it's just a reinterpretation of ancient Greek philosophy, not scientific proof.

The natural world, including human creativity, can be explained by natural laws and processes. Say something else.

oteneaaron:
I agree that my analogy might flawed and filled with assumptions - I am not all knowing and neither are you.

If ideas are "just neural constructs" from the brain, kindly answer me this - how are these "neural constructs" created?



Thank you for admitting that the first stage of every form of creation is AN IDEA.

Even you as a human, were first an idea in the minds of your parents before they made love and you were conceived.



How dare I?

How dare you ignore the fact that every visible reality was once first nothing but an IDEA?

Yes, the cosmos is complex and awe inspiring and it is this awe inspiring complexity that leads us like children to study the cosmos and wonder where it came from.

Even the big bang theory leads us back to a singularity or point in time when the cosmos became "visible" before then, I dare say it was nothing but an IDEA.

You speak about quantum mechanics - do you disagree that at the basic form of matter beyond protons and electrons what we have is nothing but pure energy vibrations?

What you see as solid in reality is nothing not energy at different rates of vibration and I dare say so are our thoughts or ideas.



You are spared.

I never said the principle was an empirical evidence, I only applied it's reasoning from lower to higher concepts.

If humans can first create things by first having an IDEA, then there must be a PRIMAL IDEA or as the Greeks called it, the LOGOS.



I don't dispute this fact.



Thank you once again for admitting that there are NATURAL LAWS that govern our reality.

If I may ask, where do these natural laws come from?

EnemyofGod3:

You just speak so many grammar without answering my question, whether God is infinite or finite that's not the bone of contention.the question is where was God when he created heaven and earth ? The spirit of God must be somewhere before he created the heaven and earth.

The people who wrote the bible didn't know that the time go come when some critical question like this go come out.

EnemyofGod3:
In the book of Genesis God created heaven and earth,before he created all other things.

We as human before you build your own house,is either you live in a rented apartment or you live in your father's house.but in this case God just from nowhere and created heaven and earth.

Christian's in the house can you tell us where was God when he created heaven and earth ?

Flame333:
If you can tell me where you were as homan before you were born, I could give you an answer to your question

DaddyCoool:
But this is very easy to answer na - you were in your mummy's tommy

Flame333:
Some misery are beyond our curiosity

DaddyCoool:
But this one is not beyond anything - you were in your mummy's tommy b4 u were born

EnemyofGod3:
In the book of Genesis God created heaven and earth,before he created all other things.

We as human before you build your own house,is either you live in a rented apartment or you live in your father's house.but in this case God just from nowhere and created heaven and earth.

Christian's in the house can you tell us where was God when he created heaven and earth ?

Botragelad:
Let me elucidate. Neural constructs are generated by the brain's neural activity, a natural process governed by neuroscientific principles, devoid of any divine intervention. Now, acknowledging ideas as the initial stage of creation does not imply a divine origin. Human imagination and creativity are inherent abilities, not evidence of a primal idea or Logos.

You previously stated that the Big Bang theory traces back to an idea, but in fact, it leads to a singularity, a point of infinite density and zero volume, governed by physical laws. The cosmos evolved through natural processes. Quantum mechanics demonstrates that matter comprises energy vibrations, but this does not equate thoughts or ideas with physical reality. Thoughts are neural constructs, distinct from energy vibrations.

You then inquired about the origin of natural laws; simple, they are discovered through observation, experimentation, and evidence-based reasoning, etc without requiring a divine creator to explain their existence.
As I mentioned earlier, the concept of a primal idea or Logos is a philosophical construct, not empirical evidence. Human creativity and imagination are sufficient to explain the origin of ideas, without resorting to supernatural entities.

EnemyofGod3:

You just speak so many grammar without answering my question, whether God is infinite or finite that's not the bone of contention.the question is where was God when he created heaven and earth ? The spirit of God must be somewhere before he created the heaven and earth.

The people who wrote the bible didn't know that the time go come when some critical question like this go come out.

MaxInDHouse:
According to the Bible God was never stationed in a place {Genesis 1:2} [b]the creation work started after God has created a being like Himself and both were moving to and fro [/b]but by the time God wanted to establish His sovereignty He commanded His only begotten Son and the creation of all other things began first with a place where spirits will stay with God: Heavens
And another place where other creatures (physical) will live: Earth
The only begotten Son of God who is called the WISDOM of God {1Corinthians 1:24} later explained! Proverbs 8:22-31

EnemyofGod3:
In the book of Genesis God created heaven and earth,before he created all other things.

We as human before you build your own house,is either you live in a rented apartment or you live in your father's house.but in this case God just from nowhere and created heaven and earth.

Christian's in the house can you tell us where was God when he created heaven and earth ?

Flame333:
So tell me how your lineage came into existence because you were in your mom's womb why your mom was in her mom's womb and your like

obonujoker:
Another Dumb Question

Floky215:
The beign you call God are simply groups of alien beings who came together to genetically engineer humans here on earth..!!

The fundamental of the technology used exist among humans till date and they keep building on it till they get to the level of perfection which the engineers used..!!

They are simply astronaut from other constellation...!!

HellVictorinho6:
Theres no universe



Cuz u cant really explain the origin/definition



U speak of a point of infinite density


Contradiction


A point means that which is finite or that which has a size


A point represents a part


A part must be finite


Infinite means not as a point


U speak of zero volume


How can a volume of sumtin arise from a volume of zero/nothing?


As 4 physical laws/empirical evidence,


What makes sumtin acceptable or permissible by state law as physical law/empirical evidence 2day may not work 2moro.


State law determines what is allowed as physical law/empirical evidence after checks upon checks by those called scientists as often as possible.


Human errors/contradictions arent impossible in this case.

EnemyofGod3:
In the book of Genesis God created heaven and earth,before he created all other things.

We as human before you build your own house,is either you live in a rented apartment or you live in your father's house.but in this case God just from nowhere and created heaven and earth.

Christian's in the house can you tell us where was God when he created heaven and earth ?

Botragelad:
Haha. Your attempt to discredit the concept of the universe by claiming it's a contradiction failed. The term "point" in physics refers to a mathematical concept, not a physical entity with size or dimension. It's a theoretical construct, not a literal "part" with finite boundaries.

The "zero volume" argument is equally flawed. The concept of zero volume doesn't mean "nothing"; it means a singularity where our current understanding of physics breaks down. It's not a logical contradiction, let's say a limitation of our knowledge.

Now, regarding those physical laws and empirical evidence. You seem to think that scientists arbitrarily decide what's acceptable based on "state law." No, scientific laws and evidence are based on rigorous testing, observation, and peer review. They're not dictated by some arbitrary authority, but rather by the consensus of experts in their fields.

And yes, human errors and contradictions are possible, but that's why science is a self-correcting process. New evidence and observations can refine or even overturn existing theories. That's the beauty of science - it's not dogma, but a continuous pursuit of knowledge.

So, dear creationist, try again. Maybe next time you can present a coherent argument that doesn't rely on wordplay and misunderstandings of basic scientific concepts.

Botragelad:
Haha. Your attempt to discredit the concept of the universe by claiming it's a contradiction failed. The term "point" in physics refers to a mathematical concept, not a physical entity with size or dimension. It's a theoretical construct, not a literal "part" with finite boundaries.

The "zero volume" argument is equally flawed. The concept of zero volume doesn't mean "nothing"; it means a singularity where our current understanding of physics breaks down. It's not a logical contradiction, let's say a limitation of our knowledge.

Now, regarding those physical laws and empirical evidence. You seem to think that scientists arbitrarily decide what's acceptable based on "state law." No, scientific laws and evidence are based on rigorous testing, observation, and peer review. They're not dictated by some arbitrary authority, but rather by the consensus of experts in their fields.

And yes, human errors and contradictions are possible, but that's why science is a self-correcting process. New evidence and observations can refine or even overturn existing theories. That's the beauty of science - it's not dogma, but a continuous pursuit of knowledge.

So, dear creationist, try again. Maybe next time you can present a coherent argument that doesn't rely on wordplay and misunderstandings of basic scientific concepts.