₦airaland Forum

valiant80:
There is no Heaven
Don't doubt, watch the video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zF48k8noHVE?si=DiuKWQ3Lb9LYVv14

Rev 21:1-2:
"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."

Have you read this before?

TenQ:
If this is true then Allah is False!




It is easy to judge.
Who should be the best and most accurate between Ibn Abbas and Zakir Naik as a historical source about prophet Mohammed?

Can my report on Mohammed be more accurate than report from Aisha?


This is the crux of the whole matter:
There is no iota of evidence to believe that Allah gave the Qur'an to Mohammed. Every evidence shows that the Qur'an is the writing of 6th century people feigning spiritual authority.
1. Islam depends and claim to build on the prophets from earlier scriptures
2. There is no previous scripture that claimed verbatim speech of God
3. The style of writing of the Qur'an is completely different from the earlier scriptures
4. Errors that cannot possibly come from God exist in the Qur'an (Scientific, Mathematical, Historical etc)
5. There is NOT one evidence apart from the claim of Mohammed that he was visited by Jibril or got any information from God
6. Characters alien to the God of the earlier scriptures are present in the Qur'an such as Halal prostitution (Mutah) and Halal love-vendor business for Muslim men.
7. Usually, the God of the scriptures before Islam would authenticate His prophets with Signs such as Miracles or Prophecies for which Mohammed wasn't given any.
8. Usually the God of the earlier scriptures spoke directly or by inspiration to their prophets and not through Angels unlike Mohammed.
9. The Character of Mohammed is terrible as a human being not to speak of a prophet. A man that can marry the wife of his adopted son is not respectable even in this perverse generation
10. The author feigning to be Allah often forget that he is supposed to be speaking in first person. Surah Al-Fathia is a good example.



No problem!
I agree with you.

Even you Muslims do exactly that .
Eg.
-Allah says pray three times a day, you pray five times
-Allah says do Mutah, you made Mutah haram
-Allah says the The Jews and Christians take their Rabbis and Monks as Lords instead of Allah AND the Messiah you say no
-Allah says he and his angels pray on Mohammed, you say no that he didn't say that
Just a few of what you Muslims do on your Qur'an.

Pardon my being deeply in other primary engagements that spare too little time to engage more with you now. I will be with you in a fortnight at most hopefully.

However note that he rabbis of Judaism make their statement about the Torah independent of Allah and the Quran.

Ohyoudidnt:
Pardon my being deeply in other primary engagements that spare too little time to engage more with you now. I will be with you in a fortnight at most hopefully.

However note that he rabbis of Judaism make their statement about the Torah independent of Allah and the Quran.

On this,

However note that he rabbis of Judaism make their statement about the Torah independent of Allah and the Quran.

I agree with you as the name of their God isn't Allah and they don't even recognise Mohammed as a prophet
No problems my friend.

We can actually wrap this up 'cause I want to know your true and honest opinions wrt the Sanaa Qur'an, the Warsh Qur'an wrt the Hafs Qur'an AND the standard Islamic narrative that the Qur'an is perfectly preserved as the copy of the Qur'an of Allah up to the diacritical marks.

Have a fruitful rest of the day!

TenQ:
On this,

I agree with you as the name of their God isn't Allah and they don't even recognise Mohammed as a prophet
No problems my friend.

We can actually wrap this up 'cause I want to know your true and honest opinions wrt the Sanaa Qur'an, the Warsh Qur'an wrt the Hafs Qur'an AND the standard Islamic narrative that the Qur'an is perfectly preserved as the copy of the Qur'an of Allah up to the diacritical marks.

Have a fruitful rest of the day!

There are one too many arguments on this thread and it really doesn't matter.

Christianity, Islam and Judaism have divergent views on the Holy spirit and many other issues.

In Christianity, the Holy Spirit is considered the third person of the Trinity, which includes God the Father, God the Son (Jesus Christ), and God the Holy Spirit. This doctrine emphasizes that all three persons are distinct yet fully and equally God, sharing one divine essence.


Judaism recognises the divine presence often referred to as the spirit of God but it does not equate this spirit with a distinct person or entity as seen in Christian theology. Instead, Jewish thought generally views God’s spirit (Ruach HaKodesh) as an expression of God’s power or influence rather than a separate being.

Islam has the Holy spirit as primarily associated with divine revelation and guidance.

Now you make a comment regarding sin and the command of God but forget to include the principle of free will with it. This however is within the limits of your understanding and is very much ok for you.

There are things strictly subjected to God's command and things where the innate desire is allowed according to God's wisdom. Angels are strictly compliant to the command while mankind and jinn (not an acceptable creation in Christianity) have free will.


Kun fayakum which translates to Be, and it is, encapsulates the concept of God’s supreme creative power in Islam. This divine command signifies that when Allah wills something to exist, it comes into being instantaneously. However, this notion of divine will coexists with the concept of free will granted to both mankind and jinns, allowing them the freedom to choose their paths.

Allah’s omnipotence is absolute; He has the authority over all creation. The phrase “Kun fayakum” illustrates how Allah can create or alter reality at His command. Yet, within this framework of divine sovereignty lies the essential belief that humans and jinns possess free will. This means they are accountable for their choices, whether they choose to believe or disbelieve, obey or disobey.

There is no need seeking infallible proof that Mary bore other children other than Jesus

1. Islam doesn't depends and claim to build on the prophets from earlier scriptures in the context you have as to some degree the narrations though similar have some slight difference.

2. There is no previous scripture that claimed verbatim speech of God.

The Torah in tablet form given to Moses is directly from God or isn't it and should not be confused with further explanations of the priests that make it up. These explanation are elucidation of the core of what was given in the primary tablet or weren't they?


3. The style of writing of the Qur'an is completely different from the earlier scriptures.

Perhaps due to place, people and time differences however the core to reverence a primary supreme being is common and all other things stem from this.

4. The errors you refer to are perceptional and it is not worthy going into a merry go round about it.

5. There is NOT one evidence apart from the claim of Mohammed that he was visited by Jibril or got any information from God.

Perhaps his knowledge of things centuries before his time doesn't suffice you or other reports such as when Jibril ra came to him in the presence of his companions to ask questions are not sufficient for you.

His seclusion in the cave during his retreat from Mecca to Medina too is another. However one who isn't inclined to believe will write everything off and this is fine.

6. You have been informed and are well aware that Mutah didn't originate under prophet Muhammad pbuh but was forbidden by him besides there are somewhat similar tales of similar practice in the old testament. Perhaps if you look openly at levirage and concubinage marriages or temporary marriages as in the case of Ruth and Boazl as well as other cultural practices.

7. You certainly claim prophet Muhammad pbuh had no miracles associated with his person. Do we start with the abundance that came upon his wet nurse, the splitting of the moon, water flowing from his hands, the crying tree trunk? In any case magicians too can create a semblance of a miracle and Islamic belief places less emphasis on miracles. Did people of old not stick to disbelief despite seeing numerous miracles?


8. Allah spoke to prophet Muhammad pbuh by other means aside revelation through Jibril.


9. Well human ways are not the ways of God and specifically to abolish the wrong in exaggerating non blood ties.


10. The beauty of Surah Fatima is beyond you where Allah as an honour to man divides it's value between himself and mankind?

Besides it's more befitting than reducing the almighty to a form that can be physically wrestled with by his creation as the case of Jacob in your Bible narrative.

If Allah had willed he could have made us all practice one religion however not to worry as

On the Day of Resurrection, God will judge between all regarding our differences

Quite some time my friend. How are you and your Family?

Ohyoudidnt:
There are one too many arguments on this thread and it really doesn't matter.

Christianity, Islam and Judaism have divergent views on the Holy spirit and many other issues.

In Christianity, the Holy Spirit is considered the third person of the Trinity, which includes God the Father, God the Son (Jesus Christ), and God the Holy Spirit. This doctrine emphasizes that all three persons are distinct yet fully and equally God, sharing one divine essence.


Judaism recognises the divine presence often referred to as the spirit of God but it does not equate this spirit with a distinct person or entity as seen in Christian theology. Instead, Jewish thought generally views God’s spirit (Ruach HaKodesh) as an expression of God’s power or influence rather than a separate being.

The Jews Believe that the Holy Spirit is God's presence that gives Power.
It is blasphemous to call God's Holy Spirit and angel.
The only difference between the Jews and Christians with respect to the Holy Spirit is that the Jews will rather not form a Theology around the Holy Spirit.

To them, God is the Holy Spirit who gives His power and authority to chosen men AND God can put His spirit on any man for his empowerment.

To the Jews, the Holy Spirit is MORE than God's Power or Influence BUT His very Presence.

2Sam 23:2:
"The Spirit of the LORD spoke by me, and his word was in my tongue."

Gods spirit can speak and is NOT and "it": He is a personality!

Isa 63:10:
"But they rebelled, and vexed His holy Spirit: therefore He (God) was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them."

Can one vex God or His Power?

Isa 40:13:
"Who has directed the Spirit of the LORD, or being his counselor has taught him?"

Isaiah 40:13 should tell you that the Spirit of YHWH is Him.

The only difference between Christians and Jews on the Holy Spirit is the statement in theology. Christians speak about the theology but Jews wouldn't discuss it.

Ohyoudidnt:
Islam has the Holy spirit as primarily associated with divine revelation and guidance.

No sir
Your claim is that the Holy Spirit is Angel Gabriel!

This is blasphemous both to the Jews and Christians.

Mt 12:31-32:
"Because of this, I say to you, every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven to men except the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit; that shall not be forgiven to men. And whoever speaks a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this age nor in the coming age."

Do you think Jesus alludes that the Holy Spirit is Jibril?

Ohyoudidnt:
Now you make a comment regarding sin and the command of God but forget to include the principle of free will with it. This however is within the limits of your understanding and is very much ok for you.

There are things strictly subjected to God's command and things where the innate desire is allowed according to God's wisdom. Angels are strictly compliant to the command while mankind and jinn (not an acceptable creation in Christianity) have free will.

Unfortunately, FREEWILL doesn't exist in Islam (except with you contemporary Muslims)

Don't you believe in Al-Qadar again?

Your doctrine is that Allah had decided everything a man will do here on earth.

If you disagree, then I will make my next post on Al-Qadr and you will see how problematic it is.

Ohyoudidnt:
Kun fayakum which translates to Be, and it is, encapsulates the concept of God’s supreme creative power in Islam. This divine command signifies that when Allah wills something to exist, it comes into being instantaneously. However, this notion of divine will coexists with the concept of free will granted to both mankind and jinns, allowing them the freedom to choose their paths.

Allah’s omnipotence is absolute; He has the authority over all creation. The phrase “Kun fayakum” illustrates how Allah can create or alter reality at His command. Yet, within this framework of divine sovereignty lies the essential belief that humans and jinns possess free will. This means they are accountable for their choices, whether they choose to believe or disbelieve, obey or disobey.

Freewill doesn't exist in Islamic theology except with you modern Muslims.
However,
You try to separate Allah's power for creation (kunfayakun) from Allah's power over things he has created but this is NOT correct.

Let me give you an example in the Bible. When God would create the plants, He spoke to the Earth to bring forth vegetations.

Gen 1:11-12:
"And God said, “Let the earth bring forth vegetation— the herb yielding seed and the fruit tree producing fruit after its kind, whose seed is in itself— upon the earth.” And it was so. And the earth brought forth vegetation— the herb yielding seed after its kind, and the tree producing fruit after its kind, whose seed is in itself. And God saw that it was good."


Now, just like the Earth , God commands humans but we chose to disobey Him.

Ordinarily, this SIN has no forgiveness except that God loves us human beings even with our failures. This was why God prepared a RANSOM and SACRIFICE for us so that the one who can trust his/her life to God's solution will not perish but have his eternal life with God in paradise.

Ohyoudidnt:
There is no need seeking infallible proof that Mary bore other children other than Jesus

Okay!

TenQ:
Quite some time my friend. How are you and your Family?


The Jews Believe that the Holy Spirit is God's presence that gives Power.
It is blasphemous to call God's Holy Spirit and angel.
The only difference between the Jews and Christians with respect to the Holy Spirit is that the Jews will rather not form a Theology around the Holy Spirit.

To them, God is the Holy Spirit who gives His power and authority to chosen men AND God can put His spirit on any man for his empowerment.

To the Jews, the Holy Spirit is MORE than God's Power or Influence BUT His very Presence.

2Sam 23:2:
"The Spirit of the LORD spoke by me, and his word was in my tongue."

Gods spirit can speak and is NOT and "it": He is a personality!

Isa 63:10:
"But they rebelled, and vexed His holy Spirit: therefore He (God) was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them."

Can one vex God or His Power?

Isa 40:13:
"Who has directed the Spirit of the LORD, or being his counselor has taught him?"

Isaiah 40:13 should tell you that the Spirit of YHWH is Him.

The only difference between Christians and Jews on the Holy Spirit is the statement in theology. Christians speak about the theology but Jews wouldn't discuss it.



No sir
Your claim is that the Holy Spirit is Angel Gabriel!

This is blasphemous both to the Jews and Christians.

Mt 12:31-32:
"Because of this, I say to you, every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven to men except the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit; that shall not be forgiven to men. And whoever speaks a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this age nor in the coming age."

Do you think Jesus alludes that the Holy Spirit is Jibril?



Unfortunately, FREEWILL doesn't exist in Islam (except with you contemporary Muslims)

Don't you believe in Al-Qadar again?

Your doctrine is that Allah had decided everything a man will do here on earth.

If you disagree, then I will make my next post on Al-Qadr and you will see how problematic it is.




Freewill doesn't exist in Islamic theology except with you modern Muslims.
However,
You try to separate Allah's power for creation (kunfayakun) from Allah's power over things he has created but this is NOT correct.

Let me give you an example in the Bible. When God would create the plants, He spoke to the Earth to bring forth vegetations.

Gen 1:11-12:
"And God said, “Let the earth bring forth vegetation— the herb yielding seed and the fruit tree producing fruit after its kind, whose seed is in itself— upon the earth.” And it was so. And the earth brought forth vegetation— the herb yielding seed after its kind, and the tree producing fruit after its kind, whose seed is in itself. And God saw that it was good."


Now, just like the Earth , God commands humans but we chose to disobey Him.

Ordinarily, this SIN has no forgiveness except that God loves us human beings even with our failures. This was why God prepared a RANSOM and SACRIFICE for us so that the one who can trust his/her life to God's solution will not perish but have his eternal life with God in paradise.

Okay!

I am well and You? Thanks for asking.

Not to prolong this thread you actually spur to end earlier the following just should be said.

The earth does not possess free will in the same way that mankind does. While humans can make moral choices impacting their lives and surroundings, the earth operates under God’s established laws without conscious decision-making capabilities.

From your scripture the earth operates according to physical laws established by God at creation (Genesis 1:1-31). These laws govern natural phenomena such as gravity, weather patterns, and geological processes.

From a theological perspective, while humans have been given dominion over the earth (Genesis 1:26-28) and are responsible for its stewardship, this does not equate to the earth having free will. Instead, it suggests that humans have a role in caring for creation within the parameters set by God.

Then Qadar (predestination) and free will are both important aspects of belief. Qadar refers to Allah's decree and knowledge of all events, both good and bad, before they happen. It is an essential part of our faith to understand that Allah is the ultimate Planner and Controller of all things.

On the other hand, free will refers to the ability of humans to make choices and decisions. Allah has granted us free will, allowing us to choose our actions and take responsibility for them. We have the freedom to make choices, but Allah, being All-Knowing and All-Powerful, already knows what choices we will make.

When it comes to reconciling Qadar and free will, it is important to recognize that our understanding is limited. Allah's knowledge is beyond our comprehension, and He knows our choices without interfering with our ability to make them. We are accountable for our actions and will be judged based on our intentions and deeds.

Islam teaches us to strive for what is good, make wise choices, and seek guidance.

Ohyoudidnt:
I am well and You? Thanks for asking.

Not to prolong this thread you actually spur to end earlier the following just should be said.

The earth does not possess free will in the same way that mankind does. While humans can make moral choices impacting their lives and surroundings, the earth operates under God’s established laws without conscious decision-making capabilities.

From your scripture the earth operates according to physical laws established by God at creation (Genesis 1:1-31). These laws govern natural phenomena such as gravity, weather patterns, and geological processes.

I was reacting to your notion that the Kunfayakun of Allah is more of a the concept of God’s supreme creative power in Islam and an implied notion that it doesn't apply to creatures after creation .

Before we end this thread, can you please respond to these questions
1. Why is Islam the only divergent religion with respect to the Holy Spirit?
Note:
The Jews and Christians Believe that the Holy Spirit is God's presence that gives Power.
It is blasphemous to call God's Holy Spirit and angel.
2. Do you think Jesus is alluding that the Holy Spirit is Jibril in Mt 12:31-32:

Ohyoudidnt:
From a theological perspective, while humans have been given dominion over the earth (Genesis 1:26-28) and are responsible for its stewardship, this does not equate to the earth having free will. Instead, it suggests that humans have a role in caring for creation within the parameters set by God.

Then Qadar (predestination) and free will are both important aspects of belief. Qadar refers to Allah's decree and knowledge of all events, both good and bad, before they happen. It is an essential part of our faith to understand that Allah is the ultimate Planner and Controller of all things.

On the other hand, free will refers to the ability of humans to make choices and decisions. Allah has granted us free will, allowing us to choose our actions and take responsibility for them. We have the freedom to make choices, but Allah, being All-Knowing and All-Powerful, already knows what choices we will make.

When it comes to reconciling Qadar and free will, it is important to recognize that our understanding is limited. Allah's knowledge is beyond our comprehension, and He knows our choices without interfering with our ability to make them. We are accountable for our actions and will be judged based on our intentions and deeds.

Islam teaches us to strive for what is good, make wise choices, and seek guidance.

Al-Qadr is a cardinal belief in Islam but Freewill is NOT because Both of them conflict.
Can you show me how Freewill can exist without Al-Qadr of Allah?
Because if freewill is within the encompass of Al-Qadr, then freewill doesn't exist.

The problem of Al-Qadr and Freewill is like locking a person up in a prison and telling him that he is free to go anywhere he wants in the country.
I can give you several Hadiths that support my claims if you want.

Nevertheless,
I think the discussion on the Al-Qadar and Freewill should be on a new thread!