₦airaland Forum

You will from this thread conclude that Islamic scholars have told lies all along that the Qur'an was perfectly preserved even up to the diacritical marks

Only in Islam is a Qur'an which is supposed to be the word of God get abrogated as soon as it was dictated.

What kind of an erroneous error filled God of Islam is this!

So, how can this thing called the Qur'an can be trusted?

It is even too easy to show differences not due to scribal errors within the Qur'ans by removing the vowels. You will still arrive at different Qur'ans


I pity these fraudulent liars known as Muslim scholars!

It is even easy to show that differences in these Qurans are not all due to scribal errors within the Quran by removing the vowels.
You will still arrive at different Qur'ans

I pity the fraudulent liars called the Muslim scholars

Muslim scholars are in the same league with Satan when it comes to fabrication of lies

A muslim lied a few days ago that these differences are Calligraphic differences; like their father satan, they tell lies as their first nature

See how the LIES of the so-called perfect preservation of the Qur'an is deflated with several evidences.

But rather than think, the king of this world and the Al-Makr the Deceiver has blinded their eyes to the truth

TenQ:
The three oldest manuscripts of the Qurans are
1. Birmingham Quran Manuscript
Year Written: c.568 AD – 645 AD
The Birmingham Quran Manuscript contains parts of Surah 18 (Al-Kahf), Surah 19 (Maryam), and Surah 20 (Ta-Ha). The manuscript is comprised of two parchment leaves and includes text from these specific surahs.
2. Tübingen Fragment
Year Written: c. 649 AD – 675 AD
The Tubingen Quran contains portions of 11 surahs.
3. Sana’a Manuscript
Year Written: c.671 AD
The Sana’a manuscript includes fragments and parts of approximately 40 different surahs. The lower text (the original writing that was later erased and overwritten) of the palimpsest contains fragments from several surahs, while the upper text (the later writing) also includes portions of many surahs.
The top Quran was dated to the late 7th century to early 8th century while the lower original text which was overwritten was about 671 AD.

Work on restoration and translation of the lower Quran texts were done in five Universities
Albrecht Noth (University of Hamburg)
Gerd R. Puin (University of Saarland)
Hans-Caspar Graf von Bothmer (University of Saarland)
Behnam Sadeghi (Professor of Islamic Studies at Stanford University) and
Mohsen Goudarzi (PhD student at Harvard University).

A detailed narrative of the history and DIFFERENCES found can be found in the link below:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanaa_manuscript


Muslims have always insisted that there is no iota of differences between the Quran of Mohammed and the current Quran that we currently use (the Hafs Quran)

I am going to present evidences from the TRANSLATION according to the team at Stanford University without saying much on them (afterall, I am not an Arabic scholar)


Question:
1. Which one of the current Quran is the Quran of Allah on the tablet in heaven?
2. How come the Sanaa Quran is different from the standard Qurans in many verses?
3. Why did Muslim scholars tell white lies on the preservation of the Quran?

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Enjoy and understand that any manuscript variant that conflicts with Uthmanic and isn't corroborated by something found in the literature should be assumed to be a scribal mistake.

In the 1 case of the numerous sheets you should understand this was the work of a student.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZe_qREjNYI?si=CNkW9xaMq7SdosE7

Ohyoudidnt:
Enjoy and understand that any manuscript variant that conflicts with Uthmanic and isn't corroborated by something found in the literature should be assumed to be a scribal mistake.

In the 1 case of the numerous sheets you should understand this was the work of a student.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZe_qREjNYI?si=CNkW9xaMq7SdosE7

Thoroughly explained.

Hopefully He will learn and not keep regurgitating his nonsense assertion.

My aim was to show you that your earliest Qur'an differ from your Hafs Qur'an and even your video agreed with me. He only had excuses that it was done by a student.

Ohyoudidnt:
Enjoy and understand that any manuscript variant that conflicts with Uthmanic and isn't corroborated by something found in the literature should be assumed to be a scribal mistake.

In the 1 case of the numerous sheets you should understand this was the work of a student.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZe_qREjNYI?si=CNkW9xaMq7SdosE7

Qasim6:
Thoroughly explained.

Hopefully He will learn and not keep regurgitating his nonsense assertion.

I watched this video two full times so as to get it's main thrust of argument and I was disappointed. Muslims love to lie and to hear lies.


The major argument is that the errors observed was because a STUDENT wrote the lower text of the Sana'a Qur'an.

Is this a factual Truth or a speculation that a student wrote this Qur'an?

For your information, students will write on wooden slates because both papyrus and animal skin parchments were expensive.
Papyrus is far much cheaper than animal skins but less durable. Only the rich could afford skin parchments and this is not what you'd give a student.

Note:
1. The claim of Muslims is that the Qur'an is perfectly preserved up to the diacritical marks.
a. If this is true, where is the verse of stoning and breastfeeding an adult ten times.
b. If this is true, why do the earlier Muslims say that many verses are missing from the Qur'an of Uthman
c. If this is true, why was the Qur'an of Abubaker not identical with the Qur'an of Uthman
d. If this is true, where was the Qur'an of Mohammed collected by his best four reciters
e. If this claim is correct, why is the Hafs Qur'an different from the Warsh Qur'an.

TenQ:
My aim was to show you that your earliest Qur'an differ from your Hafs Qur'an and even your video agreed with me. He only had excuses that it was done by a student.




I watched this video two full times so as to get it's main thrust of argument and I was disappointed. Muslims love to lie and to hear lies.


The major argument is that the errors observed was because a STUDENT wrote the lower text of the Sana'a Qur'an.

Is this a factual Truth or a speculation that a student wrote this Qur'an?

For your information, students will write on wooden slates because both papyrus and animal skin parchments were expensive.
Papyrus is far much cheaper than animal skins but less durable. Only the rich could afford skin parchments and this is not what you'd give a student.

Note:
1. The claim of Muslims is that the Qur'an is perfectly preserved up to the diacritical marks.
a. If this is true, where is the verse of stoning and breastfeeding an adult ten times.
b. If this is true, why do the earlier Muslims say that many verses are missing from the Qur'an of Uthman
c. If this is true, why was the Qur'an of Abubaker not identical with the Qur'an of Uthman
d. If this is true, where was the Qur'an of Mohammed collected by his best four reciters
e. If this claim is correct, why is the Hafs Qur'an different from the Warsh Qur'an.

Good that you watched the video twice.

Did you query the resources used in making the video?

1. When did the documented or written form of the Quran come into existence?

What do you know about the history of written arabic and evolution of diacritical marks?

Why will what was not in existence be preserved or how do you preserve what doesn't exist yet?

a. It would not have been in doubt that there were verses missing if all your research and searches had brought one parchment with a bit of these missing verses. How do you ascertain something is missing without proof of it previously existing?

b. Perhaps you should bring forth the missing verses from Uthmani codex that was present in previous codices.

Don't say he destroyed all other codices as if he did where then do you get the one Sana'a palimpsest script that differs from this? The
Birmingham Manuscript and The Topkapi manuscripts and others?

c. To what degree is Uthmani codex different from Abubakar's compilation?

Uthmani acted to resolve growing differences by encouraging recognition of mutually agreeable style so you don't have cases of various volume and content of the religious book as is seen in the old testament cannon of certain groups.

d. Was the Quran you term that of Prophet Muhammad pbuh a written documented book?

Zaid ibn Thabit’s compilation efforts combined with the teachings from the four great reciters laid a strong foundation for how Muslims engage with the Quran today. Their contributions ensured that both accurate recitation and understanding were prioritized within Islamic education.

In qualifying a reciter of Quran do you think it was just mere ability to recall and vocalist?

e. Now you push to your post that I deliberately ignore as it is not worthy use of my time. I cannot continue doing something that obviously brings no results.

Closed definition of one language by another fails to take in grammatical essence and nuance of tradition and culture.

Do you still marvel how things can be said differently yet have essentially the same meaning? Providing deeper concepts for reflection or you think words of God are just flippant statements that shouldn't be reflected upon

Get the actual meaning of what is said in the video you shared.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSkzcocL1A0?si=l2duWWcx_h6Rw18u


حُسْناً refers broadly to goodness or beauty in various forms—moral character, aesthetic appeal, etc.
إِحْسَانًا, however, focuses on the quality of actions performed with excellence and sincerity.

The former denotes general goodness or beauty appreciated by individuals within their lives or communities, and the latter emphasizes an active pursuit of excellence in one’s deeds towards others as well as towards God. You see the dimensions?

Then:

Parchment, made from animal skin, is known for its strength and flexibility. It was widely used in medieval times for important documents and manuscripts, as it could withstand frequent handling and folding without tearing.

Papyrus, on the other hand, made from the fibrous inner part of the papyrus plant, is also highly durable and has been found in ancient Egyptian tombs with writing still intact.

Both parchment and papyrus have proven to be more resilient to the elements than wood, which can easily rot or decay over time.

I however am not up to further debate on this.


Enjoy your life and allow God be supreme.

Ohyoudidnt:
If Allah had willed he could have made us all practice one religion however not to worry as

On the Day of Resurrection, God will judge between all regarding our differences

Ohyoudidnt:
Good that you watched the video twice.

Did you query the resources used in making the video?

No, I didn't. I queried their logic and arguments and found them wanting

Ohyoudidnt:
1. When did the documented or written form of the Quran come into existence?

From the time of Mohammed.
1. Is it untrue that the Qur'an was collected in the time of Mohammed?
2. Is it untrue that the Qur'an was collected in the time of Abubaker without using that of Mohammed?
3. Is it untrue that the Qur'an was collected again during the time of Uthman?

Ohyoudidnt:
What do you know about the history of written arabic and evolution of diacritical marks?

Yes!
Prior to the 8th century, most languages were written without vowels.
Arabic was initially written using a script that didn't include vowels or diacritical marks. This early script, used from the 4th to 6th centuries, was quite similar to other Semitic scripts. Diacritical marks began to be used from the 7th century

Ohyoudidnt:
Why will what was not in existence be preserved or how do you preserve what doesn't exist yet?

It's not possible to preserve that which doesn't exist

Ohyoudidnt:
a. It would not have been in doubt that there were verses missing if all your research and searches had brought one parchment with a bit of these missing verses. How do you ascertain something is missing without proof of it previously existing?

The normal logical thing is to use the ancient to confirm the recent. We can use the oldest Shakespeare to compare with the latest shakespeare and not the reverse

Ohyoudidnt:
b. Perhaps you should bring forth the missing verses from Uthmani codex that was present in previous codices.

You Muslims are the custodian of the Qur'an and it is you who should bring forth
1. The Qur'an of Mohammed
2. The Qur'an of Abubaker
3. The Qur'an of Uthman

Why would you use the Qur'an according to the RECITATION of Hafs if you have any of these Qur'ans.

Maybe your scholars hid the originals so that they can give you a doctored version

Ohyoudidnt:
Don't say he destroyed all other codices as if he did where then do you get the one Sana'a palimpsest script that differs from this? The
Birmingham Manuscript and The Topkapi manuscripts and others?

Is the few pages of the Birmingham Qur'an identical to the modern Qur'an word for word, diacritical marks for diacritical marks?

Ohyoudidnt:
c. To what degree is Uthmani codex different from Abubakar's compilation?

One of the Differences between the Quran of Abubakr and the Quran of Uthman
Is it untrue that according to Zaid
a. Qur'an of Abubakar has Quran 9:128-129 but missing Qur'an 33:23
b. Qur'an of Uthman corrected Abubakar's Qur'an by adding Quran 33:23

Do you need evidence.

Ohyoudidnt:
Uthmani acted to resolve growing differences by encouraging recognition of mutually agreeable style so you don't have cases of various volume and content of the religious book as is seen in the old testament cannon of certain groups.

This was what you were told

Ohyoudidnt:
d. Was the Quran you term that of Prophet Muhammad pbuh a written documented book?

What does this mean that the Qur'an was collected?

Didn't the Goat eat part of the Qur'an of Mohammed?

Ohyoudidnt:
Zaid ibn Thabit’s compilation efforts combined with the teachings from the four great reciters laid a strong foundation for how Muslims engage with the Quran today. Their contributions ensured that both accurate recitation and understanding were prioritized within Islamic education.

In qualifying a reciter of Quran do you think it was just mere ability to recall and vocalist?

No sir.
Of the four reciters, can you name the one who joined Zaid to collect or write the Qur'an.
If you need evidence that they where alive yet not part of the committee, what will you do?

Ohyoudidnt:
e. Now you push to your post that I deliberately ignore as it is not worthy use of my time. I cannot continue doing something that obviously brings no results.

Closed definition of one language by another fails to take in grammatical essence and nuance of tradition and culture.

Do you still marvel how things can be said differently yet have essentially the same meaning? Providing deeper concepts for reflection or you think words of God are just flippant statements that shouldn't be reflected upon

Get the actual meaning of what is said in the video you shared.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSkzcocL1A0?si=l2duWWcx_h6Rw18u


حُسْناً refers broadly to goodness or beauty in various forms—moral character, aesthetic appeal, etc.
إِحْسَانًا, however, focuses on the quality of actions performed with excellence and sincerity.

The former denotes general goodness or beauty appreciated by individuals within their lives or communities, and the latter emphasizes an active pursuit of excellence in one’s deeds towards others as well as towards God. You see the dimensions?

Don't forget that the Old Testament of the Bible was written in Hebrew which is a Semitic language like Arabic. Yet we don't complain or whine about complexity of the language except if you can admit that Allah chose a wrong language for the Qur'an.

Ohyoudidnt:
Then:

Parchment, made from animal skin, is known for its strength and flexibility. It was widely used in medieval times for important documents and manuscripts, as it could withstand frequent handling and folding without tearing.

Papyrus, on the other hand, made from the fibrous inner part of the papyrus plant, is also highly durable and has been found in ancient Egyptian tombs with writing still intact.

Both parchment and papyrus have proven to be more resilient to the elements than wood, which can easily rot or decay over time.

I however am not up to further debate on this.
Enjoy your life and allow God be supreme.

Papyrus are of inferior quality that animal skill. Google would have baled you out of this error.





You can see how Truth doesn't have fear of answering ANY questions.


Will you now answer my questions?
Note:
1. The claim of Muslims is that the Qur'an is perfectly preserved up to the diacritical marks.
a. If this is true, where is the verse of stoning and breastfeeding an adult ten times?
b. If this is true, why do the earlier Muslims say that many verses are missing from the Qur'an of Uthman?
c. If this is true, why was the Qur'an of Abubaker not identical with the Qur'an of Uthman?
d. If this is true, where was the Qur'an of Mohammed collected by his best four reciters?
e. If this claim is correct, why is the Hafs Qur'an different from the Warsh Qur'an?





The problem of Islam is LIES: too many lies that have to be supported by other Lies. On the day you embrace the Truth, you will become FREE!

TenQ:
No, I didn't. I queried their logic and arguments and found them wanting

Ohyoudidnt:
Good that you watched the video twice.

Did you query the resources used in making the video?

TenQ:
I watched this video two full times so as to get it's main thrust of argument and I was disappointed. Muslims love to lie and to hear lies.

In how many hours do you forget what you wrote?

I am unable to grant you response as your bias repeatedly makes you forget

Ohyoudidnt:
In how many hours do you forget what you wrote?

I am unable to grant you response as your bias repeatedly makes you forget

Did you not ask if I Queried the RESOURCES used in making the video?

You must realise that This is impossible to do as I DO NOT have access to the materials or resources your YouTube host used.

This was why I said:
No, I didn't. I queried his logic and arguments and found them wanting.

Do you think it is possible for me to know the resources he used?
Do you know the resources he used?

Do you know the resources I use in conversations with you? No!
This is an impossible thing to do except I give you my library or collection of sources, I'm afraid, you can't

You isolated 2 statements of mine and responded. Was your response to both statements or not?

Of course you didn't pay attention to the video to know where to find the resources used.


https://www.antishubohat.net/2020/12/09/gerdpuin-gregorschoeler

https://www.biblestudytools.com/joshua/24-29.html


Toby Lester, “What is the Koran? Atlantic Monthly, January, 1999

3 of 14 references they used or with your frequent reliance on YouTube you don't know where to find such information if it's listed?


Then watch this to answer your preservation questions.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pcenpnMVVE?si=57Qx97wtTs2TOtqx

Ohyoudidnt:
You isolated 2 statements of mine and responded. Was your response to both statements or not?

Of course you didn't pay attention to the video to know where to find the resources used.


https://www.antishubohat.net/2020/12/09/gerdpuin-gregorschoeler

https://www.biblestudytools.com/joshua/24-29.html


Toby Lester, “What is the Koran? Atlantic Monthly, January, 1999

3 of 14 references they used or with your frequent reliance on YouTube you don't know where to find such information if it's listed?


Then watch this to answer your preservation questions.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pcenpnMVVE?si=57Qx97wtTs2TOtqx

I have gone through the ones I could and they didn't contain anything much different from what he had said. I'm sure you did not read all the sources too otherwise you would have known that I am not a native Arabic speaker.

Now that I've gone through the ones I could, none of them answered my questions.
Unfortunately, I queried the logic and arguments of the Youtuber and found them wanting.

Is it Not strange that the Youtuber admitted differences between the Sana'a Qur'an and the Hafs Qur'an (due to student's error) only for two of them to retract their position to say that the Qur'an according to Sana'a is identical to the modern Qur'an?

Where they Threatened or Bribed or their retraction Forged? Were they blind in the first instance? No one external to them will know.

Unfortunately, the sources did NOT answer my questions: if it does, show me!
Except you want to escape, please answer my questions below

My Unanswered Questions
1. Is it untrue that the Qur'an was collected in the time of Mohammed?
2. Is it untrue that the Qur'an was collected again in the time of Abubaker without using that of Mohammed?
3. Is it untrue that the Qur'an was collected again during the time of Uthman?

4. Why would you use the Qur'an according to the RECITATION of Hafs if you have any of these Qur'ans from Mohammed to Abubaker to Uthman?

5. Is it untrue that according to Zaid
a. Qur'an of Abubakar has Quran 9:128-129 but doesn't have Qur'an 33:23?
b. Qur'an of Uthman corrected Abubakar's Qur'an by adding Quran 33:23?

Do you need evidence?

6. Of the four reciters, can you name the one who joined Zaid to collect or write the Qur'an.
If you need evidence that they where alive yet not part of the committee, what will you do?

7. The claim of Muslims is that the Qur'an is perfectly preserved up to the diacritical marks.
a. If this is true, where is the verse of stoning and breastfeeding an adult ten times?
b. If this is true, why do the earlier Muslims say that many verses are missing from the Qur'an of Uthman?
c. If this is true, why was the Qur'an of Abubaker not identical with the Qur'an of Uthman?
d. If this is true, where was the Qur'an of Mohammed collected by his best four reciters?
e. If this claim is correct, why is the Hafs Qur'an different from the Warsh Qur'an?




Except All you are doing is to escape answering my questions.
You will admit that these your so-called sources doesn't address my questions.

If they do, kindly point them out to me.

However, if you want to Dodge these have your way.

TenQ:
I have gone through the ones I could and they didn't contain anything much different from what he had said. I'm sure you did not read all the sources too otherwise you would have known that I am not a native Arabic speaker.

Now that I've gone through the ones I could, none of them answered my questions.
Unfortunately, I queried the logic and arguments of the Youtuber and found them wanting.

Is it Not strange that the Youtuber admitted differences between the Sana'a Qur'an and the Hafs Qur'an (due to student's error) only for two of them to retract their position to say that the Qur'an according to Sana'a is identical to the modern Qur'an?

Where they Threatened or Bribed or their retraction Forged? Were they blind in the first instance? No one external to them will know.

Unfortunately, the sources did NOT answer my questions: if it does, show me!
Except you want to escape, please answer my questions below

My Unanswered Questions
1. Is it untrue that the Qur'an was collected in the time of Mohammed?
2. Is it untrue that the Qur'an was collected again in the time of Abubaker without using that of Mohammed?
3. Is it untrue that the Qur'an was collected again during the time of Uthman?

4. Why would you use the Qur'an according to the RECITATION of Hafs if you have any of these Qur'ans from Mohammed to Abubaker to Uthman?

5. Is it untrue that according to Zaid
a. Qur'an of Abubakar has Quran 9:128-129 but doesn't have Qur'an 33:23?
b. Qur'an of Uthman corrected Abubakar's Qur'an by adding Quran 33:23?

Do you need evidence?

6. Of the four reciters, can you name the one who joined Zaid to collect or write the Qur'an.
If you need evidence that they where alive yet not part of the committee, what will you do?

7. The claim of Muslims is that the Qur'an is perfectly preserved up to the diacritical marks.
a. If this is true, where is the verse of stoning and breastfeeding an adult ten times?
b. If this is true, why do the earlier Muslims say that many verses are missing from the Qur'an of Uthman?
c. If this is true, why was the Qur'an of Abubaker not identical with the Qur'an of Uthman?
d. If this is true, where was the Qur'an of Mohammed collected by his best four reciters?
e. If this claim is correct, why is the Hafs Qur'an different from the Warsh Qur'an?




Except All you are doing is to escape answering my questions.
You will admit that these your so-called sources doesn't address my questions.

If they do, kindly point them out to me.

However, if you want to Dodge these have your way.

Do you know the difference between Hafs and Mushaf?

Logic employed are

1. Islamic tradition

2. Logic

3. Testimony of researchers.


You can find no sense in these methods as they don't align with you.

You now boldly claim or agree to be a non native arabic speaker or You now doubt the efficiency of your translations?


Enjoy your choice.

TenQ:
Who wouldn't die one day?

The lies of Islam are just too much: now, they have convinced themselves that the lies are reality

I hope AntiChristian is reading this article?

Ken4Christ:
I hope AntiChristian is reading this article?

Nothing to say against your lies!

I dey busy!

WHY ARE YOU AFRAID TO ANSWER MY QUESTIONS:
Your youtube Video did NOT Address ANY of my Questions: do I not have the right to ask questions. Do you expect me to swallow everything you present without asking ANY Questions?


Unfortunately, the sources did NOT answer my questions: if it does, show me!
Except you want to escape, please answer my questions below

My Unanswered Questions
1. Is it untrue that the Qur'an was collected in the time of Mohammed?
2. Is it untrue that the Qur'an was collected again in the time of Abubaker without using that of Mohammed?
3. Is it untrue that the Qur'an was collected again during the time of Uthman?
4. Why would you use the Qur'an according to the RECITATION of Hafs if you have any of these Qur'ans from Mohammed to Abubaker to Uthman?
5. Is it untrue that according to Zaid
a. Qur'an of Abubakar has Quran 9:128-129 but doesn't have Qur'an 33:23?
b. Qur'an of Uthman corrected Abubakar's Qur'an by adding Quran 33:23?
Do you need evidence?
6. Of the four reciters, can you name the one who joined Zaid to collect or write the Qur'an.
If you need evidence that they where alive yet not part of the committee, what will you do?
7. The claim of Muslims is that the Qur'an is perfectly preserved up to the diacritical marks.
a. If this is true, where is the verse of stoning and breastfeeding an adult ten times?
b. If this is true, why do the earlier Muslims say that many verses are missing from the Qur'an of Uthman?
c. If this is true, why was the Qur'an of Abubaker not identical with the Qur'an of Uthman?
d. If this is true, where was the Qur'an of Mohammed collected by his best four reciters?
e. If this claim is correct, why is the Hafs Qur'an different from the Warsh Qur'an?


Except All you are doing is to escape answering my questions.
You will admit that these your so-called sources doesn't address my questions.

If they do, kindly point them out to me.
However, if you want to Dodge these have your way.

Ohyoudidnt:
Do you know the difference between Hafs and Mushaf?

Yes I do.

Ohyoudidnt:
Logic employed are
1. Islamic tradition
2. Logic
3. Testimony of researchers.

When you teach a student, is it haram for the students to ask questions?

Ohyoudidnt:
You can find no sense in these methods as they don't align with you.
You now boldly claim or agree to be a non native arabic speaker or You now doubt the efficiency of your translations?
Enjoy your choice.

I have listened carefully to your presentations and I have some questions that should make me understand your position better.
Why are you now angry that I asked you questions.






Don't forget that the claim of Islam is that the Quran is PERFECTLY Preserved up to the Diacritical Marks
I didn't make up the claim: are you saying that we should just accept this claim as TRUE?

My Questions are fundamental!

AntiChristian:
Nothing to say against your lies!

I dey busy!

What is the LIE sir?

Don't forget that the claim of Islam is that the Quran is PERFECTLY Preserved up to the Diacritical Marks
I didn't make up the claim: are you saying that we should just accept this claim as TRUE?

Ken4Christ:
I hope AntiChristian is reading this article?

He fled long ago for he saw evidences that proved that the Quran has not been perfectly preserved up to its diacritical marks!


Ask him if it is true that the Quran has been perfectly preserved word for word up top the diacritical marks or not and see how he will dance about to escape

TenQ:
He fled long ago for he saw evidences that proved that the Quran has not been perfectly preserved up to its diacritical marks!

Ask him if it is true that the Quran has been perfectly preserved word for word up top the diacritical marks or not and see how he will dance about to escape

Hollywood spirit revealed to you that I fled!

I no get your time!

TenQ:
What is the LIE sir?

Don't forget that the claim of Islam is that the Quran is PERFECTLY Preserved up to the Diacritical Marks
I didn't make up the claim: are you saying that we should just accept this claim as TRUE?

Almost everything you utter is a lie or close to it. I no get your time!

TenQ:
WHY ARE YOU AFRAID TO ANSWER MY QUESTIONS:
Your youtube Video did NOT Address ANY of my Questions: do I not have the right to ask questions. Do you expect me to swallow everything you present without asking ANY Questions?


Unfortunately, the sources did NOT answer my questions: if it does, show me!
Except you want to escape, please answer my questions below

My Unanswered Questions
1. Is it untrue that the Qur'an was collected in the time of Mohammed?
2. Is it untrue that the Qur'an was collected again in the time of Abubaker without using that of Mohammed?
3. Is it untrue that the Qur'an was collected again during the time of Uthman?
4. Why would you use the Qur'an according to the RECITATION of Hafs if you have any of these Qur'ans from Mohammed to Abubaker to Uthman?
5. Is it untrue that according to Zaid
a. Qur'an of Abubakar has Quran 9:128-129 but doesn't have Qur'an 33:23?
b. Qur'an of Uthman corrected Abubakar's Qur'an by adding Quran 33:23?
Do you need evidence?
6. Of the four reciters, can you name the one who joined Zaid to collect or write the Qur'an.
If you need evidence that they where alive yet not part of the committee, what will you do?
7. The claim of Muslims is that the Qur'an is perfectly preserved up to the diacritical marks.
a. If this is true, where is the verse of stoning and breastfeeding an adult ten times?
b. If this is true, why do the earlier Muslims say that many verses are missing from the Qur'an of Uthman?
c. If this is true, why was the Qur'an of Abubaker not identical with the Qur'an of Uthman?
d. If this is true, where was the Qur'an of Mohammed collected by his best four reciters?
e. If this claim is correct, why is the Hafs Qur'an different from the Warsh Qur'an?


Except All you are doing is to escape answering my questions.
You will admit that these your so-called sources doesn't address my questions.

If they do, kindly point them out to me.
However, if you want to Dodge these have your way.


Yes I do.

When you teach a student, is it haram for the students to ask questions?


I have listened carefully to your presentations and I have some questions that should make me understand your position better.
Why are you now angry that I asked you questions.






Don't forget that the claim of Islam is that the Quran is PERFECTLY Preserved up to the Diacritical Marks
I didn't make up the claim: are you saying that we should just accept this claim as TRUE?

My Questions are fundamental!

Originally when you opened this thread your questions are:

1. Which one of the current Quran is the Quran of Allah on the tablet in heaven?
2. How come the Sanaa Quran is different from the standard Qurans in many verses?
3. Why did Muslim scholars tell white lies on the preservation of the Quran?

The numerous pictures you attached are comparisons of what you allege to be the Sana'a Quran albeit what is claimed to have been regenerated from the erased and overwritten lower text isn t it?

Is this not what you say you're surprised I hadn't seen on the 22nd of July 2024?

TenQ:
Mr Ohyoudidnt ,
As promised. the table is set.

There are no way textual variants do not occur when manuscripts are copied manually, sometimes you have word omission, word addition, word interjection, word substitutions etc.

Why did the islamic scholars have to tell such blatant lies to the Muslims and everyone else that the Quran is perfectly preserved upt to the diacritical marks?



And this is just comparing the Hafs Quran with the existing copy of the Sanaa Quran.

My answers has centered on the Sana'a palimpsest and the Uthmani codec.

You can do research on your other questions
more so when the answers I have shared with you are not satisfactory to you.

Ohyoudidnt:
Originally when you opened this thread your questions are:

1. Which one of the current Quran is the Quran of Allah on the tablet in heaven?
2. How come the Sanaa Quran is different from the standard Qurans in many verses?
3. Why did Muslim scholars tell white lies on the preservation of the Quran?

The numerous pictures you attached are comparisons of what you allege to be the Sana'a Quran albeit what is claimed to have been regenerated from the erased and overwritten lower text isn t it?

Is this not what you say you're surprised I hadn't seen on the 22nd of July 2024?



My answers has centered on the Sana'a palimpsest and the Uthmani codec.

You can do research on your other questions
more so when the answers I have shared with you are not satisfactory to you.

If we still narrow down on these three Questions, you will see that you didn't address them

1. Which one of the current Quran is the Quran of Allah on the tablet in heaven?
We have so many Arabic Quran such as Hafs Qur'an
Warsh Qur'an
Qalun Qur'an
al-Duri Qur'an
al-Bazzi Qur'an
Qunbul Qur'an
al-Suri Qur'an
Ibn `Amir Qur'an
Hisham Qur'an
Ibn Dhakwan Qur'an
Khallad Qur'an
al-Kisa'i Qur'an
al-Duri Qur'an
Abu'l-Harith Qur'an
Ibn Wardan Qur'an
Ibn Jamaz Qur'an
Ya`qub al-Hashimi Qur'an
Ruways Qur'an
Rawh Qur'an
Khalaf al-Bazzar Qur'an
Ishaq Qur'an
Idris al-Haddad Qur'an
Khalaf Qur'an
Which one of the current Quran is the Quran of Allah on the tablet in heaven?

2. How come the Sanaa Quran is different from the standard Qurans in many verses?
Lets assume that you tried your best here except that the logic doesn't add up.
How is any Muslim sure that a STUDENT wrote those verses in the Sana'a Quran?
Leather Patchments are expensive and thus would not be given to a beginner: slates are more appropriate for students.
Speculations is definitely NOT a proof

3. Why did Muslim scholars tell white lies on the preservation of the Quran?
One of the LIES is that the Quran of Mohammed is perfectly Preserved word for word up to the diacritical marks!
Is this a true statement?

Answering the Questions below show us what the TRUTH is:
My Unanswered Questions
1. Is it untrue that the Qur'an was collected in the time of Mohammed?
2. Is it untrue that the Qur'an was collected again in the time of Abubaker without using that of Mohammed?
3. Is it untrue that the Qur'an was collected again during the time of Uthman?
4. Why would you use the Qur'an according to the RECITATION of Hafs if you have any of these Qur'ans from Mohammed to Abubaker to Uthman?
5. Is it untrue that according to Zaid
a. Qur'an of Abubakar has Quran 9:128-129 but doesn't have Qur'an 33:23?
b. Qur'an of Uthman corrected Abubakar's Qur'an by adding Quran 33:23?
Do you need evidence?
6. Of the four reciters, can you name the one who joined Zaid to collect or write the Qur'an.
If you need evidence that they where alive yet not part of the committee, what will you do?
7. The claim of Muslims is that the Qur'an is perfectly preserved up to the diacritical marks.
a. If this is true, where is the verse of stoning and breastfeeding an adult ten times?
b. If this is true, why do the earlier Muslims say that many verses are missing from the Qur'an of Uthman?
c. If this is true, why was the Qur'an of Abubaker not identical with the Qur'an of Uthman?
d. If this is true, where was the Qur'an of Mohammed collected by his best four reciters?
e. If this claim is correct, why is the Hafs Qur'an different from the Warsh Qur'an?


So, my friend, Even if we narrow down to the Three Questions, you still have these questions to answer

ARE YOU AFRAID OF THE TRUTH?

AntiChristian:
Almost everything you utter is a lie or close to it. I no get your time!

Okay, what is the TRUTH?

Is it that
The Quran is PERFECTLY Preserved , word for word up to the Diacritical Marks?
OR
The Quran is NOT PERFECTLY Preserved , word for word up to the Diacritical Marks?

AntiChristian:
Hollywood spirit revealed to you that I fled!

I no get your time!

Defender of Falsehood: You gat no shame!

TenQ:
If we still narrow down on these three Questions, you will see that you didn't address them

1. Which one of the current Quran is the Quran of Allah on the tablet in heaven?
We have so many Arabic Quran such as Hafs Qur'an
Warsh Qur'an
Qalun Qur'an
al-Duri Qur'an
al-Bazzi Qur'an
Qunbul Qur'an
al-Suri Qur'an
Ibn `Amir Qur'an
Hisham Qur'an
Ibn Dhakwan Qur'an
Khallad Qur'an
al-Kisa'i Qur'an
al-Duri Qur'an
Abu'l-Harith Qur'an
Ibn Wardan Qur'an
Ibn Jamaz Qur'an
Ya`qub al-Hashimi Qur'an
Ruways Qur'an
Rawh Qur'an
Khalaf al-Bazzar Qur'an
Ishaq Qur'an
Idris al-Haddad Qur'an
Khalaf Qur'an
Which one of the current Quran is the Quran of Allah on the tablet in heaven?

2. How come the Sanaa Quran is different from the standard Qurans in many verses?
Lets assume that you tried your best here except that the logic doesn't add up.
How is any Muslim sure that a STUDENT wrote those verses in the Sana'a Quran?
Leather Patchments are expensive and thus would not be given to a beginner: slates are more appropriate for students.
Speculations is definitely NOT a proof

3. Why did Muslim scholars tell white lies on the preservation of the Quran?
One of the LIES is that the Quran of Mohammed is perfectly Preserved word for word up to the diacritical marks!
Is this a true statement?

Answering the Questions below show us what the TRUTH is:
My Unanswered Questions
1. Is it untrue that the Qur'an was collected in the time of Mohammed?
2. Is it untrue that the Qur'an was collected again in the time of Abubaker without using that of Mohammed?
3. Is it untrue that the Qur'an was collected again during the time of Uthman?
4. Why would you use the Qur'an according to the RECITATION of Hafs if you have any of these Qur'ans from Mohammed to Abubaker to Uthman?
5. Is it untrue that according to Zaid
a. Qur'an of Abubakar has Quran 9:128-129 but doesn't have Qur'an 33:23?
b. Qur'an of Uthman corrected Abubakar's Qur'an by adding Quran 33:23?
Do you need evidence?
6. Of the four reciters, can you name the one who joined Zaid to collect or write the Qur'an.
If you need evidence that they where alive yet not part of the committee, what will you do?
7. The claim of Muslims is that the Qur'an is perfectly preserved up to the diacritical marks.
a. If this is true, where is the verse of stoning and breastfeeding an adult ten times?
b. If this is true, why do the earlier Muslims say that many verses are missing from the Qur'an of Uthman?
c. If this is true, why was the Qur'an of Abubaker not identical with the Qur'an of Uthman?
d. If this is true, where was the Qur'an of Mohammed collected by his best four reciters?
e. If this claim is correct, why is the Hafs Qur'an different from the Warsh Qur'an?


So, my friend, Even if we narrow down to the Three Questions, you still have these questions to answer

ARE YOU AFRAID OF THE TRUTH?

You immediately review your questions? Why?

1. There are seven recognized Ahruf that encompass broader linguistic variations, while there are multiple Riwayat associated with each Qira’at, reflecting individual narrators’ methods.

You can place the 23 claimed different Quran in them.


2. Is all the Sana'a Quran different from the Quran in use? Of 926 just one with erased and corrected text is what you fail to prove different. You fail to acknowledge comments that are observed in it stated in the 17 mins video.

The archaeological findings, particularly the Ṣanaa 1 manuscript, reveal significant insights into the early textual traditions of the Qurʾān. The study suggests that the lower writing of the manuscript represents a non-ʿUt̠mānic textual tradition, distinct from the standardized version established by ʿUt̠mān. This lower text is indicative of the early state of the Qurʾān during the time of the Prophet Muhammad and the Companions, showing variations that likely arose from the aural transmission of the text.

The comparison indicates that the ʿUt̠mānic text type, which is the basis for the Qurʾān as it exists today, is generally more faithful to the original recitations of the Prophet than the C-1 tradition represented in the manuscript. However, the findings also highlight that variations among the different codices—like those in C-1 and the codex of Ibn Masʿūd—were not merely accidental but were likely shaped by the oral traditions of the time.

In conclusion, while the ʿUt̠mānic version is seen as preserving the Prophetic prototype more accurately, the archaeological evidence underscores the existence of multiple, contemporaneous textual traditions that enrich our understanding of the Qurʾān's early history and its transmission.

3. Was the Quran recollected or what had been previously collected unified and standardised?

4. My use or non use of Hafs Quran doesn't invalidate the authenticity of other types or is it said to be ejected anywhere?

5. The extra efforts of Zaid ibn Thabbit to ensure absolute truth in the compilation of the Quran is what you doubt? Was he involved in all the compilations? When and why did he get swayed to uphold falsehood?

6. Indeed Zaid didn't directly work with the said 4 reciters but did Ubay ibn Kab work with him during the Uthmani standardisation?

7. The Quran is preserved however the exaggerated claim you submit is not accurate as the Quran is first oral and the diacritical marks or even alphabets have evolved over time.

Name the scholars who you say talk on preservation to the diacritical marks where, when and pointers to verify this.

TenQ:
He fled long ago for he saw evidences that proved that the Quran has not been perfectly preserved up to its diacritical marks!


Ask him if it is true that the Quran has been perfectly preserved word for word up top the diacritical marks or not and see how he will dance about to escape

If only he knows the doom that awaits those who reject the gospel of our Lord Jesus, he will speedily come to Jesus. Well, we'll keep preaching the truth and also expose the deceit of false religion. Those who are ordained for eternal life will take warning and receive salvation. But the sons of perdition will continue in the wrong way.

Ohyoudidnt:
You immediately review your questions? Why?

1. There are seven recognized Ahruf that encompass broader linguistic variations, while there are multiple Riwayat associated with each Qira’at, reflecting individual narrators’ methods.

You can place the 23 claimed different Quran in them.


2. Is all the Sana'a Quran different from the Quran in use? Of 926 just one with erased and corrected text is what you fail to prove different. You fail to acknowledge comments that are observed in it stated in the 17 mins video.

The archaeological findings, particularly the Ṣanaa 1 manuscript, reveal significant insights into the early textual traditions of the Qurʾān. The study suggests that the lower writing of the manuscript represents a non-ʿUt̠mānic textual tradition, distinct from the standardized version established by ʿUt̠mān. This lower text is indicative of the early state of the Qurʾān during the time of the Prophet Muhammad and the Companions, showing variations that likely arose from the aural transmission of the text.

The comparison indicates that the ʿUt̠mānic text type, which is the basis for the Qurʾān as it exists today, is generally more faithful to the original recitations of the Prophet than the C-1 tradition represented in the manuscript. However, the findings also highlight that variations among the different codices—like those in C-1 and the codex of Ibn Masʿūd—were not merely accidental but were likely shaped by the oral traditions of the time.

In conclusion, while the ʿUt̠mānic version is seen as preserving the Prophetic prototype more accurately, the archaeological evidence underscores the existence of multiple, contemporaneous textual traditions that enrich our understanding of the Qurʾān's early history and its transmission.

3. Was the Quran recollected or what had been previously collected unified and standardised?

4. My use or non use of Hafs Quran doesn't invalidate the authenticity of other types or is it said to be ejected anywhere?

5. The extra efforts of Zaid ibn Thabbit to ensure absolute truth in the compilation of the Quran is what you doubt? Was he involved in all the compilations? When and why did he get swayed to uphold falsehood?

6. Indeed Zaid didn't directly work with the said 4 reciters but did Ubay ibn Kab work with him during the Uthmani standardisation?

7. The Quran is preserved however the exaggerated claim you submit is not accurate as the Quran is first oral and the diacritical marks or even alphabets have evolved over time.

Name the scholars who you say talk on preservation to the diacritical marks where, when and pointers to verify this.

You wrote answers 1 through 7 (I assume for my questions) when non of your answers are related to my questions.

I will give you the first three to confirm if you are aware of what you did.

The Question
1. Which one of the current Quran is the Quran of Allah on the tablet in heaven?

Your response
There are seven recognized Ahruf that encompass broader linguistic variations, while there are multiple Riwayat associated with each Qira’at, reflecting individual narrators’ methods.

You can place the 23 claimed different Quran in them.

We expect that there is just ONE Kalam Allah in paradise. Is this wrong?

If there is one Kalam Allah which one of the seven dialects is the Kalam Allah?

Scholars have found over 36 different Arabic Qur'ans (far much more that the seven dialects you claim). Even then, till now, no Muslim has been able to tell us the name of the Qur'an sent to other tribes other than the Quraysh tribe.


Except what you are claiming is that 26 Kalam Allah are in paradise.


Question
2. How come the Sanaa Quran is different from the standard Qurans in many verses?
Lets assume that you tried your best here except that the logic doesn't add up.
How is any Muslim sure that a STUDENT wrote those verses in the Sana'a Quran?
Leather Patchments are expensive and thus would not be given to a beginner: slates are more appropriate for students.
Speculations is definitely NOT a proof

Your response

2. Is all the Sana'a Quran different from the Quran in use? Of 926 just one with erased and corrected text is what you fail to prove different. You fail to acknowledge comments that are observed in it stated in the 17 mins video.

The archaeological findings, particularly the Ṣanaa 1 manuscript, reveal significant insights into the early textual traditions of the Qurʾān. The study suggests that the lower writing of the manuscript represents a non-ʿUt̠mānic textual tradition, distinct from the standardized version established by ʿUt̠mān. This lower text is indicative of the early state of the Qurʾān during the time of the Prophet Muhammad and the Companions, showing variations that likely arose from the aural transmission of the text.

The comparison indicates that the ʿUt̠mānic text type, which is the basis for the Qurʾān as it exists today, is generally more faithful to the original recitations of the Prophet than the C-1 tradition represented in the manuscript. However, the findings also highlight that variations among the different codices—like those in C-1 and the codex of Ibn Masʿūd—were not merely accidental but were likely shaped by the oral traditions of the time.

In conclusion, while the ʿUt̠mānic version is seen as preserving the Prophetic prototype more accurately, the archaeological evidence underscores the existence of multiple, contemporaneous textual traditions that enrich our understanding of the Qurʾān's early history and its transmission.


Is it UNTRUE that your Youtuber acknowledged that there are differences within the first five minutes of his broadcast.
He then gave excuses that the errors were scribal error of a Qur'anic student.

The Question was: How is any Muslim sure that a STUDENT wrote those verses in the Sana'a Quran?


The Question:
3. Why did Muslim scholars tell white lies on the preservation of the Quran?
One of the LIES is that the Quran of Mohammed is perfectly Preserved word for word up to the diacritical marks!
Is this a true statement?


Your Response:

?

I didn't see anything related


Question 1 Second set
1. Is it untrue that the Qur'an was collected in the time of Mohammed?
2. Is it untrue that the Qur'an was collected again in the time of Abubaker without using that of Mohammed?
3. Is it untrue that the Qur'an was collected again during the time of Uthman?
Your response
3. Was the Quran recollected or what had been previously collected unified and standardised?


Question 1, 2 and 3 required just a YES or a NO answer. You response didn't answer any of the three questions.

The Qur'an was collected at least three different times: The first was in the lifetime of Mohammed, the second was the lifetime of Abubaker and the third was the lifetime of Uthman.
Challenge this and I will give you evidence for each

Question
4. Why would you use the Qur'an according to the RECITATION of Hafs if you have any of these Qur'ans from Mohammed to Abubaker to Uthman?

Your response
4. My use or non use of Hafs Quran doesn't invalidate the authenticity of other types or is it said to be ejected anywhere?

You seem not to get it. Let's assume that You have the manuscript of Uthman, why use the RECITATION of Hafs rather than the Manuscript of Uthman?


Question
5. Is it untrue that according to Zaid
a. Qur'an of Abubakar has Quran 9:128-129 but doesn't have Qur'an 33:23?
b. Qur'an of Uthman corrected Abubakar's Qur'an by adding Quran 33:23?
Do you need evidence?

Your Response





I am still expecting your response

Question
6. Of the four reciters, can you name the one who joined Zaid to collect or write the Qur'an.
If you need evidence that they where alive yet not part of the committee, what will you do?

Your Response
6. Of the four reciters, can you name the one who joined Zaid to collect or write the Qur'an.
If you need evidence that they where alive yet not part of the committee, what will you do?

All I needed was anyone of Ibn Mas'ud, Ubayy bin Ka'b, Mu'adh bin Jabal, and Salim the freed slave of Abu Hudhaifah.

They were alive but we're not part of the committees of both Abubaker and Uthman


Is this hadith Maudi or Daif?
Sahih al-Bukhari 4481
Narrated Ibn `Abbas:
`Umar said, "Our best Qur'an reciter is Ubai and our best judge is `Ali; and in spite of this, we leave some of the statements of Ubai because Ubai says, 'I do not leave anything that I have heard from Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) while Allah: "Whatever verse (Revelations) do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten but We bring a better one or similar to it." (2.106)

Question
7. The claim of Muslims is that the Qur'an is perfectly preserved up to the diacritical marks.
a. If this is true, where is the verse of stoning and breastfeeding an adult ten times?
b. If this is true, why do the earlier Muslims say that many verses are missing from the Qur'an of Uthman?
c. If this is true, why was the Qur'an of Abubaker not identical with the Qur'an of Uthman?
d. If this is true, where was the Qur'an of Mohammed collected by his best four reciters?
e. If this claim is correct, why is the Hafs Qur'an different from the Warsh Qur'an?

Your response

7. The Quran is preserved however the exaggerated claim you submit is not accurate as the Quran is first oral and the diacritical marks or even alphabets have evolved over time.

Name the scholars who you say talk on preservation to the diacritical marks where, when and pointers to verify this.

You will see that you totally escaped answering any of the questions


One of your modern scholars: Qur'an preserved word for word even up to the pronunciation


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijGPLHISgho?si=SVcIY39f789R04PV

Here is Mohammed Hijab saying the word for word preservation before the two minutes mark.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVM5mYOQjIY?si=jLzD9Qo9gMCdcJqH


I could get you more but I wanted videos that are very short.

Of course the Hadith and your Old scholars disagree with you. The word for word Preservation statement is a fabrication by the modern scholars to deceive the modern Muslims.


We can end this about the Qur'an if you choose or properly respond to my specific questions.

Have a nice day