₦airaland Forum

DeepSight:
Fair enough, but my issue with this argument is that it amounts to the government punishing the people for its incapacity in terms of containing smuggling. Just the way it punished the people for its inability to deal with the corruption within the subsidy system. The actual subsidy was not unbearable but it got ridiculously inflated by corruption. Rather than deal with that corruption they chose to punish the people.

And to add to this is the absolutely stupid logic that it is a sin for Nigeria to have fuel cheaper than its neighbours. How this makes sense to Nigerians just like the subsidy propaganda, I don't know. You want to be the largest and most prosperous economy in Africa but you want to drag with Benin, Togo, Niger and Chad in terms of price stability. That's madness. Nigeria should be controlling the West African economy. Their argument makes the reverse the case!!

Max24:
Good you mentioned US, a producer and buyer of fuel. Does the US subsidize it's oil too? I know US subsidies agriculture but does it subsidize fuel? What about UK? France ? Then is our govt not subsidizing agriculture in Nigeria? Are fertilizers not subsidized despite the corruption there. Tinubu has even committed himself to more food subsidy. He has ordered for tractors for mechanized farming to be distributed states. Does Lagos not subsidize education? Do Nigerian trained medical students who end up japaing abroad to work for dollars not have their tuition subsidized in Nigeria ? Many medical students would not have been able to afford medicine if they were outside the country. But my point is tell me any oil producing country that is using it's oil for subsidy - Russia, US Saudi Arabia, Angola , SA etc.

US subsidises its oil industry by billions of dollars. Fact check me.
Nigeria does not subsidise agriculture. The last govt that subsidised agriculture was Jonathan's which was cancelled as soon as Buhari took office. You can't claim to subsidise agriculture when your farmers are the poorest and largely engage in subsistence farming. Your farm produce also respond to market forces.
Russia, US, Saudi, Angola all subsidise oil. All of them!!

Kukutenla:
OBJ spoke against the policies. Go back and listen to what he said very well.
If you want the nation to make progress, you have to be honest with yourself instead of defending politicians. All I've seen from your arguments here are attempts to whitewash Tinubu and defend him even with blatant untruths and illogical assertions.
No nation can progress on a foundation of lies.

I still say he didn't. He only talked about implementation. Obj is not a lily livered president. If he feels strongly against such policy he would have penned another strongly worded letter to Tinubu like he did to Jonathan and Buhari. His only reservation was how it was implemented not the removal. He felt it should be removed in phases. But whether it was removed in phase or not everybody believed it has to go. Remember that Atiku and Obi said the same thing. Obi even said he would remove subsidy from day 1. So what's the noise about if all the major contestants promised to remove subsidy from day 1?

Kukutenla:
US subsidises its oil industry by billions of dollars. Fact check me.
Nigeria does not subsidise agriculture. The last govt that subsidised agriculture was Jonathan's which was cancelled as soon as Buhari took office. You can't claim to subsidise agriculture when your farmers are the poorest and largely engage in subsistence farming. Your farm produce also respond to market forces.
Russia, US, Saudi, Angola all subsidise oil. All of them!!

What is the effect of their subsidy? Does that mean that it is cheaper there than in Nigeria? Can I go to America and buy a litre of PMS at the equivalent price of #650 per litre ? I would love to be informed, please. We are talking about an international product subject to international price determined by cartels such as OPEC and Tinubu removed subsidy while America retained subsidy. Does that not mean that we are paying more for fuel than Americans? I want to be educated on this please. How much is a litre of PMS in America?

Max24:
I totally agree with you my brother. I dont have problem with govt raising revenue but I strongly believe it must be accounted for. If you check my past posts you will notice that I always believe in accountability at all levels. That why I regard the senators as looters because they have been hiding their salaries and allowances for long. And I truly understand you argument about whether subsidy has been fully removed or not but since their is improved revenue let's start demanding accountability from everyone - Federal, States and LGAs. Also, all the salaries and allowances of legislators should be public knowledge. Remove subsidy but enforce accountability. It will quicken our growth. Why can't we have some Kigali in Nigeria starting from Lagos ?

That accountability you’re waiting for is like waiting for a Nigeria to defeat the United States in the next Olympic Games. Don’t tell me that they are promising this and that because their antecedents do not show trustworthiness. From electricity (which has recently seen a temporary seasonal improvement) to functional refineries, it’s the same cycle of promises and excuses. Why should this be any different? Governors are so evil but I’ll tell you what, if FG’s strategy of removing subsidies was meant to increase revenues, that strategy is dead on arrival because:
(1) inflation has already made the value of the monies valueless in the first place just like the argument that the new N70,000.00 minimum wage can no longer buy a bag of rice unlike how the former lesser amount could do that.
(2) the monies would not translate into anything meaningful anyway since you know that the people you’re giving these monies have immunity from prosecution and thou know they won’t do anything. It’s just like putting the money for your children’s school fees in the custody of a known drunkard in the area and asking your children to chase the drunkard if they don’t get the money.
Subsidy matter is very sensitive to the average Nigerian’s pocket because it affects everything so keenly. We are not saying that it’s removal is not necessary but it’s those questions that surround its removal that government has no interest in answering as follows:
(1) What’s really going on in the sector?
(2) Is subsidy truly gone? Landing costs are still higher than what is charged by oil marketers
(3) What is the issue with Dangote refinery?
(4) When will the government owned refineries begin to refine crude and what is the hurdle?
(5) Is oil theft a thing of the past?
(6) Are the cabals unknown and bigger than government? If you say the cabals have tied your hands - either internal or external cabal, are you fit to be in charge?

The net result is that government has simply transferred its burden on the average Nigerian with no commensurate benefit.

I felt weak after reading this article.

Farooq kperogi always make sense unlike the clown Reno .

Is it not funny that the same Malaysia isn't anywhere developed today as the other countries?

Max24:
I still say he didn't. He only talked about implementation. Obj is not a lily livered president. If he feels strongly against such policy he would have penned another strongly worded letter to Tinubu like he did to Jonathan and Buhari. His only reservation was how it was implemented not the removal. He felt it should be removed in phases. But whether it was removed in phase or not everybody believed it has to go. Remember that Atiku and Obi said the same thing. Obi even said he would remove subsidy from day 1. So what's the noise about if all the major contestants promised to remove subsidy from day 1?

You're only jumping to semantics. He criticized the removal of subsidy. Removal of subsidy is not a solution to economic problem. It's an economic problem itself. So I don't know how people identifying a problem means they are going to solve it the same way. It's just like going to America. Getting there is a problem not a solution to going there. Some will trek, others will drive while some might even swim there and few will fly. How each approaches it differs and will affect the outcome. One might get there early enough and get a pat on the back. Another might get lost in the desert. One might drown while one might get there very late. So using the excuse that everyone said they'll remove subsidy shows a lack of thought. The real question is how to remove it. Tinubu along with Atiku and Obi also said they will revive the economy. How come you're not holding him up to that?

Max24:
What is the effect of their subsidy? Does that mean that it is cheaper there than in Nigeria? Can I go to America and buy a litre of PMS at the equivalent price of #650 per litre ? I would love to be informed, please. We are talking about an international product subject to international price determined by cartels such as OPEC and Tinubu removed subsidy while America retained subsidy. Does that not mean that we are paying more for fuel than Americans? I want to be educated on this please. How much is a litre of PMS in America?

Again you're making false claim. There's no international price for petrol. Petrol price even difference from state to state in the US.

And yes!! Petrol price is cheaper in the US than Nigeria. You're using a false premise of equivalence when the parameters are not the same. The US minimum wage is $7.25 per hour which translates to $1740 a month.
The average price of a litre of petrol is $0.91.
This means that monthly minimum wage in the US can fetch you 1,912 litre of petrol
By contrast, in Nigeria, even at the unrealistic price of N600 per litre and signed but not implemented N70,000, you can only get a maximum of 117litres!

bluefilm:
The agbado man has no other option than to continue with the demonic IMF policies

When these international Global/Elite bodies like IMF have something against you, your only option is to continue doing their wish...

Says who
Does Russia or China do their wish?

UpTown001:
How can a country surrender its economic sovereignty to a foreign entity and tell its citizens to expect a bumper harvest in an undefined future?


It is well

laziness
Nothing is stopping you all from being productive but laziness
You don't need govt to farm or build small factories

XY23:
Na grammar you dey speak so o. He has given you empirical facts about why it will never work: the policies were made in 'bad faith". Like the SAP became a tale to be told (if you weren't born then), it's now your turn to tell your kids about PBAT's economic somersaults. The fact that we keep moving in circles is the 8th wonder of the world. No sign we'll even get it right in 2027, because instead of checking antecedents, Nigerians 'wish, hope, pray'. God has already blessed Nigeria. Just count your 8 years down,and hope it counts for productivity if you still remain in Nigeria. LOL.

Which evidence
Was sap implemented fully
Did they diversify the economy
Do you produce anything
Yet you consume everything and wonder why you're broke

subsidy had to go....

the idea itself was not bad....but nigerians tend to overdo everything for money....

WHAT MAKES BLACK AFRICAN CITIZEN LIVE ON FOREIGN AIDS, CAN IMF AND WORLD BANKS WASHED MOUTH ON CHINESE AND JAPANESE, LIKE THE WAY THEY DO TO AFRICAN CITIZEN

Kukutenla:
Again you're making false claim. There's no international price for petrol. Petrol price even difference from state to state in the US.

And yes!! Petrol price is cheaper in the US than Nigeria. You're using a false premise of equivalence when the parameters are not the same. The US minimum wage is $7.25 per hour which translates to $1740 a month.
The average price of a litre of petrol is $0.91.
This means that monthly minimum wage in the US can fetch you 1,912 litre of petrol
By contrast, in Nigeria, even at the unrealistic price of N600 per litre and signed but not implemented N70,000, you can only get a maximum of 117litres!

Now you are bringing in other parameters. Why not let's stick to the basics? If we go that way then it becomes complex because we then compare rent, tax, electricity etc. Eg whats average rent in US and Nigeria? Nigerias #70000 minimum wage can fetch you a room rent of #8000 per month. Can you get that in America?
But to the main issue petrol price in America is almost 1 dollar which is still almost double Nigerias price after Tinubu removed subsidy. I dollar is now about #1500. So, you see my point. In fact petrol marketers claim the landing cost of fuel is about #1100 and for NNpc to sell at #560 then govt must have subsidized it. Even at #650 Tinubu is still subsidizing it though he has not admitted it. He has only reduced the subsidy and not removed it totally. That shows consideration on his part if anything. He knows the implications if he removed it totally. While I understand the fact that there is a lot of corruption in the system I believe Tinubu will handle all issues including corruption in a matter of time. Wait for the next two years and you will see the progress we would have made as a nation. Those of you that japa might reconsider coming back.

MIKOLOWISKA:
Says who
Does Russia or China do their wish?

Have you ever heard of any Russian or Chinese president having a questionable certificate obtained from any Western tertiary institution?

Think

Kukutenla:
You're only jumping to semantics. He criticized the removal of subsidy. Removal of subsidy is not a solution to economic problem. It's an economic problem itself. So I don't know how people identifying a problem means they are going to solve it the same way. It's just like going to America. Getting there is a problem not a solution to going there. Some will trek, others will drive while some might even swim there and few will fly. How each approaches it differs and will affect the outcome. One might get there early enough and get a pat on the back. Another might get lost in the desert. One might drown while one might get there very late. So using the excuse that everyone said they'll remove subsidy shows a lack of thought. The real question is how to remove it. Tinubu along with Atiku and Obi also said they will revive the economy. How come you're not holding him up to that?

Now you are changing the goal post. I just reminded you what Obi said openly about removing subsidy and now you are moving to another topic of reviving the economy. Why?

Max24:
Now you are bringing in other parameters. Why not let's stick to the basics? If we go that way then it becomes complex because we then compare rent, tax, electricity etc. Eg whats average rent in US and Nigeria? Nigerias #70000 minimum wage can fetch you a room rent of #8000 per month. Can you get that in America?
But to the main issue petrol price in America is almost 1 dollar which is still almost double Nigerias price after Tinubu removed subsidy. I dollar is now about #1500. So, you see my point. In fact petrol marketers claim the landing cost of fuel is about #1100 and for NNpc to sell at #560 then govt must have subsidized it. Even at #650 Tinubu is still subsidizing it though he has not admitted it. He has only reduced the subsidy and not removed it totally. That shows consideration on his part if anything. He knows the implications if he removed it totally. While I understand the fact that there is a lot of corruption in the system I believe Tinubu will handle all issues including corruption in a matter of time. Wait for the next two years and you will see the progress we would have made as a nation. Those of you that japa might reconsider coming back.

What does rent, tax and electricity have to do with whether fuel is cheaper in Nigeria or US? You're just raising irrelevant points to defend Tinubu as usual.

Cheapness has to do with affordability.

The more affordable a commodity is, the cheaper it is.

For the Nigerian that can only afford 116L which can't take him round Lagos for a week and the American who can afford 1,912litres that can take him for over a year along the same distance, who do you think has access to cheaper fuel?

The American spends less of his income on fuel than the Nigerian. That's what cheapness is about and not your currency conversion.

So what happens tomorrow if the naira gains value? Will you say fuel is now more expensive in Nigeria when the Nigerian will actually be able to afford more of it? How logical is that?

Max24:
Now you are changing the goal post. I just reminded you what Obi said openly about removing subsidy and now you are moving to another topic of reviving the economy. Why?

What you're doing is an ad hominem
Obi also said he will cut the cost of governance
Tinubu is doing opposite that
Atiku proposed selling of NNPC
I've not heard any of you ask Tinubu to try it out
It is Tinubu that's ruling
It's his ideas and moves we're seeing
There's simply no way to know if Obi would have taken same path