₦airaland Forum

It is Good to make yourself feel goid but not to tell lies

Historically there is nothing like an Igbo democracy . It did not exist
They were a clan based forest dwelling people and there were many clans that never merged or evolved to the level of the Benin or Borno level of political organisation
There was no universal system across Igbo lands
A few clans had Kings most did not
The majority were oligarchies dominated by TITLED men with no role for women
Women were chattels of men and had no inheritance rights .
Slavery was permitted and indeed a man could become his biological brother's slave or lose his children to his brother if his brother paid bride price on his behalf as a loan and he could not pay back


No insult just Historical reality and so pushing this narrative of democracy or republicanism is honest self-deception

Government was by the rich and powerful

babasolution:
No one wasn't easy pickings for SLAVERY, the Hausa's even far from the coast were sold by their own LORDS to slavery first to Arabs and later to the coast,Yorubas also fell to SLAVERY by their own hands with constant instability and wars in their polity.only BENIN were somewhat shielded from slavery ,only due to their monarchs disposition to SLAVERY otherwise they too would have been victims,so in all emperor system was no BETTER

the major tribes were taking slaves from other places. The Fulani /hausas were taking from the middle belt and areas close to the kanuris. The Yorubas were taking from nupe, igala , dahomey and nearby tribes including Yoruba speaking that were not under oyo. But when wars happened the strong major tribes became weak and fell victims to slavery themselves. When the oyo empire fell former victims of oyo slavery like the Dahomey began to take slaves from oyo empire. Benin didn’t fall to slavery because they they had a wall to protect them and were defeated by any of their neighbours.

Form of government then was irrelevant.

aribisala0:
It is Good to make yourself feel goid but not to tell lies

Historically there is nothing like an Igbo democracy . It did not exist
They were a clan based firest dwelling people and there were many clans
There was no universal system
A few clans had Kings most did not
The majority were oligarchies dominated by TITLED men with no role for women
Women were chattels of men and hadn't inheritance rights .
Slavery was permitted and indeed a man could become his biological brother's slave or lose his children to his brother if his brother paid bride price on his behalf as a loan and he could not pay back


No insult just Historical reality and so pushing this narrative of democracy or republicanism is honest self-deception

Government was by the rich and powerful

Remember anybody could be rich and powerful and rise up the ladder,unlike monarchial emperors who were mostly hereditary.

babasolution:
Ibadan was formed in the 19th century from victims of wars( refugees)

but they waged war on others and the elites had slaves. True or false 🥱

babasolution:
Remember anybody could be rich and powerful and rise up the ladder,unlike monarchial emperors who were mostly hereditary.

I was not there so I cannot remember
It is a notion you like
There is no evidence this is true
Even if it is true in one clan was it true everywhere?
Are Igbos the same?
What i can remember because I have witnessed is OSU CASTE SYSTEM
such a system contradicts your claim and is inconsistent with democracy

My point

These are just rhetoric to make yourself feel good

Everyone will like to see a beauty when they look in a mirror

Ancient democracy where clans raided each others villages kill or eat their captives?

babasolution:
It was simply a better ideology because it allowed people to live more freely,this is based on the fact that igbos are mocked for not having supposed "statehood" with emperors.

Human sacrifice was not stopped in yorubaland or Benin till the 19th century.

If you know the real act's of the emperors you'll hate them.

Research on the life and times of say the oyo rulers you'll understand my point of view BETTER.

Most of them ruled with gross impunity, though there were checks,but it didn't stop their gross impunity

Rome had Emperors, France had Emperors, Egypt had Emperors, Greece had Emperors, Britain had Kings

It was Alexander the Great who freed the Greeks from the Persians

It was Emperor Augustus Caesar who gave Rome Pax Romana.

No leader shaped the 19th and 20th century like Emperor Napoleon who brought greatness to France and defeated the ruling European powers.

Today Oyo and Benin Empire artifacts are admired and studied in British museums.

Great civilizations are founded by Great Individuals, they can be preserved by the masses but they are founded and reformed by Great Individuals.

Your 'free society' brought nothing to civilization, on the contrary 'civilization' brought a lot to your 'free society'.

ednut1:
the major tribes were taking slaves from other places. The Fulani /hausas were taking from the middle belt and areas close to the kanuris. The Yorubas were taking from nupe, igala , dahomey and nearby tribes including Yoruba speaking that were not under oyo. But when wars happened the strong major tribes became weak and fell victims to slavery themselves. When the oyo empire fell former victims of oyo slavery like the Dahomey began to take slaves from oyo empire. Benin didn’t fall to slavery because they they had a wall to protect them and were defeated by any of their neighbours.

Form of government then was irrelevant.

You are quite wrong,the Hausa's were mostly victims of slavery from early in their history, the Hausa's were sold by the jukuns or kwararafas ( it's recorded in Kano chronicles), not until the 19th century did the Fulani gain power and started taking slaves from the middlebelt through the Nupe, the Nupe themselves at various times enslaved the Yorubas and vice versa,oyo power did not reach towards the eastern axis around igala area,the Ibadan's were the ones that stretched East due to gun supply from europeans

Guestlander:
Ancient democracy where clans raided each others villages kill or eat their captives?

That is not inconsistent with democracy
There is a better refutation

babasolution:
You are quite wrong,the Hausa's were mostly victims of slavery from early in their history, the Hausa's were sold by the jukuns or kwararafas ( it's recorded in Kano chronicles), not until the 19th century did the Fulani gain power and started taking slaves from the middlebelt through the Nupe, the Nupe themselves at various times enslaved the Yorubas and vice versa,oyo power did not reach towards the eastern axis around igala area,the Ibadan's were the ones that stretched East due to gun supply from europeans

you are missing the point. People took slaves from other tribes and not theirs , until they can no longer access it and may turn on their own people. System of government didn’t matter.

babasolution:
It was simply a better ideology because it allowed people to live more freely,this is based on the fact that igbos are mocked for not having supposed "statehood" with emperors.

Human sacrifice was not stopped in yorubaland or Benin till the 19th century.

If you know the real act's of the emperors you'll hate them.

Research on the life and times of say the oyo rulers you'll understand my point of view BETTER.

Most of them ruled with gross impunity, though there were checks,but it didn't stop their gross impunity

What is a better ideology ? You seem to be mixing things up

danvon:
Rome had Emperors, France had Emperors, Egypt had Emperors, Greece had Emperors, Britain had Kings

It was Alexander the Great who freed the Greeks from the Persians

It was Emperor Augustus Caesar who gave Rome Pax Romana.

No leader shaped the 19th and 20th century like Emperor Napoleon who brought greatness to France and defeated the ruling European powers.

Today Oyo and Benin Empire artifacts are admired and studied in British museums.

Great civilizations are founded by Great Individuals, they can be preserved by the masses but they are founded and reformed by Great Individuals.

Your 'free society' brought nothing to civilization, on the contrary 'civilization' brought a lot to your 'free society'.

Note,Greece didn't have emperors,America didn't have emperors,America and Greece dis more for civilisation than the rest

babasolution:
No one wasn't easy pickings for SLAVERY, the Hausa's even far from the coast were sold by their own LORDS to slavery first to Arabs and later to the coast,Yorubas also fell to SLAVERY by their own hands with constant instability and wars in their polity.only BENIN were somewhat shielded from slavery ,only due to their monarchs disposition to SLAVERY otherwise they too would have been victims,so in all emperor system was no BETTER

Good you mentioned that Benin Monarch not the Benin Democracy shielded the people from slavery

ednut1:
you are missing the point. People took slaves from other tribes and not theirs , until they can no longer access it and may turn on their own people. System of government didn’t matter.

My point is the emperor system had no advantages over the Igbo system

babasolution:
Note,Greece didn't have emperors,America didn't have emperors,America and Greece dis more for civilisation than the rest

Alexander the Great was from where?

America had democracy sure for white men only

aribisala0:
That is not inconsistent with democracy
There is a better refutation

I agree but there wasn't any evidence of any form of democracy ever existing in that part of Nigeria.

danvon:
Good you mentioned that Benin Monarch not the Benin Democracy shielded the people from slavery

It didn't shield the women though,

Factcheck0001:
the so Igbos that were so disorganized n disoriented that the white came n gave them warrant chiefs?

The same Igbos that lack unity that small tribes capture them n take them as slaves?

Go n read Reno omokri expose about it n u will b ashamed of yourself

warrants chiefs were imposed on igbos because the British couldn’t subdue them to slaves your people are now. Igbos don’t believe in slavery mentality the reason some of your rely on a jobless London blogger to tell you the story of your tribe is because factually you people have no credible history except for the ile ife bronze heads discovered to be less than 400 hundred years old while igbo ukwu calabash was estimated to be around 7th century by British archeologists meaning Igbos have been at least 700 years in present Nigeria before your people migrated

babasolution:
It was the times,things like this were done all over the world, even the whites considered as who some considered as having developed systems were burning women on stakes accused of witchcraft

oga keep quiet there n stop justifying madness

Where was it done all over d world?

If it was done all over d world, did mary slessor come from heaven?

danvon:
Alexander the Great was from where?

America had democracy sure for white men only

Alexander the great was emperor of Macedonia not Greece, Greece had fallen by his time

Factcheck0001:
oga keep quiet there n stop justifying madness

Where was it done all over d world?

If it was done all over d world, did mary slessor come from heaven?

I mean ,others had other cruel practices too

Guestlander:
I agree but there wasn't any evidence of any form of democracy ever existing in that part of Nigeria.

Well depends on how you defined democracy?

aribisala0:
I was not there so I cannot remember
It is a notion you like
There us no evidence this is true
Even if it is true in one clan was it true everywhere?
Are Igbos the same?
What i can remember because I have witnessed is OSU CASTE SYSTEM
such a system contradicts your claim and is inconsistent with democracy

My point

These are just rhetoric to make yourself feel good

Everyone will like to see a beauty when they look in a mirror

God bless u

D rhetoric to make themselves feel good but d annoying part of it is that they even pass their boundaries by trying to rob it on others

babasolution:
Alexander the great was emperor of Macedonia not Greece, Greece had fallen by his time

Macedonia was a city in Greece, Sparta, Athens, Thebes were cities in Greece too, it was Alexander the Great that unified Greece to fight against the Persians.

aribisala0:
I was not there so I cannot remember
It is a notion you like
There us no evidence this is true
Even if it is true in one clan was it true everywhere?
Are Igbos the same?
What i can remember because I have witnessed is OSU CASTE SYSTEM
such a system contradicts your claim and is inconsistent with democracy

My point

These are just rhetoric to make yourself feel good

Everyone will like to see a beauty when they look in a mirror

OSU system was a system that was later misunderstood and corrupted,it didn't start as a discriminatory system

aribisala0:
Well depends on how you defined democracy?

A system where people freely choose their leaders. How do you define it?

danvon:
Macedonia was a city in Greece, Sparta, Athens, Thebes were cities in Greece too, it was Alexander the Great that unified Greece to fight against the Persians.

He never acted as the emperor of Greece though,each state had their systems

aariwa:
warrants chiefs were imposed on igbos because the British couldn’t subdue them to slaves your people are now. Igbos don’t believe in slavery mentality the reason some of your rely on a jobless London blogger to tell you the story of your tribe is because factually you people have no credible history except for the ile ife bronze heads discovered to be less than 400 hundred years old while igbo ukwu calabash was estimated to be around 7th century by British archeologists meaning Igbos have been at least 700 years in present Nigeria before your people migrated

rhetoric to make yourself look good

We have oyo empire n Benin empire, where is Igbo empire?

D history of both civilization still dates till ancient times with different art works n history,can Igbos show us their own?

babasolution:
OSU system was a system that was later misunderstood and corrupted,it didn't start as a discriminatory system

Maybe
Was it the same system across all of what we call Igbo land
It is unwise to assert that which one does not know

Crucially was it DEMOCRATIC or consistent with claims of republicanism ?
Would anyone volunteer to be an Osu?

babasolution:
He never acted as the emperor of Greece though,each state had their systems

Well he freed the Greeks from Persia regardless and he was an Emperor.

We can agree on that

Factcheck0001:
rhetoric to make yourself look good

We have oyo empire n Benin empire, where is Igbo empire?

D history of both civilization still dates till ancient times with different art works n history,can Igbos show us their own?

how old is oyo empire ? One day reno go begin tell una history of how una mama and papa nack since you people have no history or know none except what reno washing plate for woman to feed in UK tells una…very sad

aariwa:
how old is oyo empire ? One day reno go begin tell una history of how una mama and papa nack since you people have no history or know none except what reno washing plate for woman to feed in UK tells una…very sad

can u show us Igbos evidence of ancient civilization?