₦airaland Forum

Guestlander:
A system where people freely choose their leaders. How do you define it?

People? Which people?
Even in a military government "people " choose. Leaders
So your definition raises questions for more definition

People
Freely
Choose

How are those things defined?

Democracy is probably impossible to define with universal unanimity

Just like goodness

A lot of people like to suggest elections imply democracy

They forget Hitler won an election

Even if people can choose leaders
Can they choose how much power the leader has? E.g
The power to use nuclear bombs?

aribisala0:
People? Which people?
Even in a military government "people " choose. Leaders
So your definition raises questions for more definition

People
Freely
Choose

How are those things defined?

Democracy is probably impossible to define with universal unanimity

Just like goodness

A lot of people like to suggest elections imply democracy

They forget Hitler won an election

Whichever way you want to define it, my point is that it didn't exist in that part of the country as far as history is concerned.

Guestlander:
Whichever way you want to define it, my point is that it didn't exist in that part of the country as far as history is concerned.

Did it exist anywhere at any time?

aribisala0:
Did it exist anywhere at any time?

You should ask the person who created the thread about ancient democracy in Igboland.
By the way, aren't you contradicting your own statements on this thread?
I can ask you the same question because earlier you said and I quote "Historically there is nothing like an Igbo democracy . It did not exist"
How is this different from what I said?

Factcheck0001:
can u show us Igbos evidence of ancient civilization?

Isaiah Anozie was digging a pit toilet in 1959 and started seeing strange objects. He reached out to then British colonial authorities who contacted a British archeologist Professor Thurstan Shaw then a visiting Professor at university of Ibadan. He and his team excavated the items from over 30 plots of land and used radio carbon dating technology to date the materials discovered to around 7th century AD or earlier and also determined that the site was that of a burial chamber of an igbo high chief( king today because igbos culturally never had kings and only adopted it recently about 300 hundred years ago from the Igalas) . The materials discovered was mostly made of bronze waxing technology, neck pendants, calabash and many other things. Most of them are still in London museum and few are in igboukwu museum .

Guestlander:
You should ask the person who created the thread about ancient democracy in Igboland.
By the way, aren't you contradicting your own statements on this thread?
I can ask you the same question because earlier you said and I quote "Historically there is nothing like an Igbo democracy . It did not exist"

There cannot be a contradiction in a question
It is an inquiry

One may hold the right opinion by luck not necessarily for the right reasoning

So I ask questions to understand your thinking

If you are quoting me you must have read my reasoning

aariwa:
warrants chiefs were imposed on igbos because the British couldn’t subdue them to slaves your people are now. Igbos don’t believe in slavery mentality the reason some of your rely on a jobless London blogger to tell you the story of your tribe is because factually you people have no credible history except for the ile ife bronze heads discovered to be less than 400 hundred years old while igbo ukwu calabash was estimated to be around 7th century by British archeologists meaning Igbos have been at least 700 years in present Nigeria before your people migrated

Warrant Chiefs were imposed on Igbos because Igbos were so disorganized, Warrant Chiefs were the only way they could get anything done. Funny enough many of the Ezes and traditional rulers in Igboland today were descendants or beneficiaries of the Warrant Chief System including Mazi Nnamdi Kanu.

It's interesting you mention Igbo Ukwu, which were beautiful art works. But where was it found? In the Nri Kingdom, one of the few parts of Igboland that were organized and had Kings.

aribisala0:
There cannot be a contradiction in a question
It us an inquiry

One may hold the right opinion by luck not necessarily for the right reasoning

So I ask questions to understand your thinking

Opinions right or wrong are all processes of reasoning. How do you come about an opinion by luck? You were sitting in your armchair and it just dropped on your lap?
I think you were just trying to start an argument.

aariwa:
Isaiah Anozie was digging a pit toilet in 1959 and started seeing strange objects. He reached out to then British colonial authorities who contacted a British archeologist Professor Thurstan Shaw then a visiting Professor at university of Ibadan. He and his team excavated the items from over 30 plots of land and used radio carbon dating technology to date the materials discovered to around 7th century AD or earlier and also determined that the site was that of a burial chamber of an igbo high chief( king today because igbos culturally never had kings and only adopted it recently about 300 hundred years ago from the Igalas) . The materials discovered was mostly made of bronze waxing technology, neck pendants, calabash and many other things. Most of them are still in London museum and few are in igboukwu museum .

There is no evidence that those items must be Igbo. They could be but there are alternative hypotheses
Pharaoh was Coptic not Arab
No one would claim Arabs built the pyramids in Egypt because they speak Arabic today
Certainly there were beads found there that are believed to be of North African origin

Guestlander:
Opinions right or wrong are all processes of reasoning. How do you come about an opinion by luck? You were sitting in your armchair and it just dropped on your lap?
I think you were just trying to start an argument.

Not true
opinions are almost never a product of reasoning
They are just transmitted like COVID

aribisala0:
Not true
opinions are almost never a product of reasoning
They are just transmitted like COVID

Right.

danvon:
Warrant Chiefs were imposed on Igbos because Igbos were so disorganized, Warrant Chiefs were the only way they could get anything done. Funny enough many of the Ezes and traditional rulers in Igboland today were descendants or beneficiaries of the Warrant Chief System including Mazi Nnamdi Kanu.

It's interesting you mention Igbo Ukwu, which were beautiful art works. But where was it found? In the Nri Kingdom, one of the few parts of Igboland that were organized and had Kings.

These artifacts do not tell the whole story, yes the are items of high civilisation but it doesn't necessarily mean that those that did not have items or art like this were barbarians

Guestlander:
Right.

and that is why most opinions are
Wrong

Pun intended

By "luck" a clock with two hands is correct twice a day

Luck simply means statistics

babasolution:
My point is the emperor system had no advantages over the Igbo system

one created empires that are still renowned and studied. The other created small autonomous villages. Don’t do this biko 😂

aribisala0:
and that is why most opinions are
Wrong

Pun intended

By "luck" a clock with two hands is correct twice a day

Luck simply means statistics

Sarcasm obviously is not your forte.

ednut1:
one created empires that are still renowned and studied. The other created small autonomous villages. Don’t do this biko 😂

What were the lives of the people like comparatively?

The people under emperors ,going by most studies didn't live better lives,infact may have fared worst,also the empires were just to the glory of the monarchy essentially,the common people had little to no gains from the empires

babasolution:
What were the lives of the people like comparatively?

The people under emperors ,going by most studies didn't live better lives,infact may have fared worst,also the empires were just to the glory of the monarchy essentially,the common people had little to no gains from the empires

the globalization you enjoy today is a product of British, Spanish and Portuguese monarchy for the most part. People in oyo empire for example were able to trade with people as far as Mali and Sudan, before the fall of the empire the people there enjoyed protection which they paid tributaries for. The tributaries also made people productive as if you no pay kasala go burst. There was exchange of ideas and writing system ( ajami script).

This is ajayi crowther’s observation when he got to onitsha. 😏

Guestlander:
Sarcasm obviously is not your forte.

Obviously
Can't have all gifts after taking the brains had to leave something for you
Not selfish

babasolution:
My point is the emperor system had no advantages over the Igbo system

There was no
Igbo system

That is nonsense
There were many systems across many clans*
Some had Kings some did not

There is very little evidence of any interaction with other people e.g non Igbos living in the midst of Igbos or the existence of towns
The existence was not at an advanced level of politics,technology or any meaningful civilization index

So called Igbo system is best for clan or village politics

They were forest dwelling people that were not very advanced compared to their immediate neighbours
They had not evolved beyond the Umunna or clan level of political organisation

That explains the Akamkpa take over in Arochukwu

Factcheck0001:
the so Igbos that were so disorganized n disoriented that the white came n gave them warrant chiefs?

The same Igbos that lack unity that small tribes capture them n take them as slaves?

Go n read Reno omokri expose about it n u will b ashamed of yourself

Yoruba and Hausa that have kings and seemed organized were sold into slavery in millions or how else we have Yoruba slaves in the new world?
And FYI no minority tribe came into Igbo mainland to capture slaves it was done by Igbo slave merchants like the Aros.

Ojiofor:
Yoruba and Hausa that have kings and seemed organized were sold into slavery in millions or how else we have Yoruba slaves in the new world?
And FYI no minority tribe came into Igbo mainland to capture slaves it was done by Igbo slave merchants like the Aros.

Aros were not Igbo
Arochukwu was captured by Akamkpa who installed a king whose dynasty are still there today
They used that platform to sell Igbos as slaves for centuries
Everyone sold igbos ijaw,Ikwerre, Benin Efik etc

aribisala0:
Obviously
Can't have all gifts after taking the brains had to leave something for you
Not selfish

Once again you are right. When a butterfly thinks itself a bird.

aribisala0:
Aros were not Igbo
Arochukwu was captured by Akamkpa who installed a king whose dynasty are still there today
They used that platform to sell Igbos as slaves for centuries
Everyone sold igbos ijaw,Ikwerre, Benin Efik etc

If Aro is not Igbo then nobody is Igbo.
What we have is Isu,Owerre,Bende,Iza,Nri etc...nobody is actually Igbo.
But was Yoruba sold into slavery or not? notwithstanding their village kings that was under attacks by Dahomey women that warranted King of Oyo to write SOS to British autorities to come and colonize and protect them from being annihilated by Dahomey women.

aribisala0:
There was no
Igbo system

That is nonsense
There were many systems across many clans*
Some had Kings some did not

There is very little evidence of any interaction with other people e.g non Igbos living in the midst of Igbos or the existence of towns
The existence was not at an advanced level of politics,technology or any meaningful civilization index

So called Igbo system is best for clan or village politics

They were forest dwelling people that were not very advanced compared to their immediate neighbours
They had not evolved beyond the Umunna or clan level of political organisation

That explains the Akamkpa take over in Arochukwu

Totally false.what would say about the ijaws or efiks ,the ijaws and efiks were organised due to their trade with the British, the Igbo evolved and developed locally

Ojiofor:
If Aro is not Igbo then nobody is Igbo.
What we have is Isu,Owerre,Bende,Iza,Nri etc...nobody is actually Igbo.
But was Yoruba sold into slavery or not? notwithstanding their village kings that was under attacks by Dahomey women that warranted King of Oyo to write SOS to British autorities to come and colonize and protect them from being annihilated by Dahomey women.

during the slave trade Arochukwu was not Igbo

Ibom Isi is not an Igbo lineage

It is not a matter of strong head

Research
Ibom Isi
Ibini Ukpabi
Clearly you are not informed

ednut1:
the globalization you enjoy today is a product of British, Spanish and Portuguese monarchy for the most part. People in oyo empire for example were able to trade with people as far as Mali and Sudan, before the fall of the empire the people there enjoyed protection which they paid tributaries for. The tributaries also made people productive as if you no pay kasala go burst. There was exchange of ideas and writing system ( ajami script).

This is ajayi crowther’s observation when he got to onitsha. 😏

You don't know that 1857 was at the last peak of the slave raids,the people of Onitsha were devastated by slave raids,the whole Nigerian area was in turmoil in the 1800s including the SW.the Spanish, British, Portuguese brought nothing but slavery

babasolution:
You don't know that 1857 was at the last peak of the slave raids,the people of Onitsha were devastated by slave raids,the whole Nigerian area was in turmoil in the 1800s including the SW.the Spanish, British, Portuguese brought nothing but slavery

Peak ?..

Source?

aribisala0:
during the slave trade Arochukwu was not Igbo

Ibom Isi is not an Igbo lineage

It is not a matter of strong head

Research
Ibom Isi
Ibini Ukpabi
Clearly you are not informed

Forget who is Igbo and who is not because I have clarified you on that.
You know nothing about ndi Igbo so focused on how Dahomey women enslaved nearly annihilated your population that your Oba has to beg Britain for intervention.

ednut1:
the globalization you enjoy today is a product of British, Spanish and Portuguese monarchy for the most part. People in oyo empire for example were able to trade with people as far as Mali and Sudan, before the fall of the empire the people there enjoyed protection which they paid tributaries for. The tributaries also made people productive as if you no pay kasala go burst. There was exchange of ideas and writing system ( ajami script).

This is ajayi crowther’s observation when he got to onitsha. 😏

They just told you the fun part,they didn't tell you the impunity in which the oyos lived under,study about the specific rules of oyo kings,you'll cringe in disgust

babasolution:
You don't know that 1857 was at the last peak of the slave raids,the people of Onitsha were devastated by slave raids,the whole Nigerian area was in turmoil in the 1800s including the SW.the Spanish, British, Portuguese brought nothing but slavery

the food you eat today like - cassava, corn, rice, tomatoes, bell pepper, sweet / irish potatoes who brought them The clothes you use today including the isi agu, wrapper, red cap who brought them The later abolition of slavery by the British nko ( the African kings rejected it till a blockade was done by the British) . The abolition of many primitive practices like human sacrifice, osu caste system nko.

The white man is not a saint neither were our own people. Stop trying to rewrite history to suit your narratives.

Ojiofor:
Forget who is Igbo and who is not because I have clarified you on that.
You know nothing about ndi Igbo so focused on how Dahomey women enslaved nearly annihilated your population that your Oba has to beg Britain for intervention.

You cannot clarify me what I know more than you

Arochukwu were not Igbo during the confederacy period
The so called Long Juju was

Ibini Ukpabi
That is not an Igbo deity

They sold Igbos as slaves because they were distinct just like Fulani and Hausa

babasolution:
They just told you the fun part,they didn't tell you the impunity in which the oyos lived under,study about the specific rules of oyo kings,you'll cringe in disgust

thats what humans do regardless of the system of government. Has DSS not been picking up opponents/ journalists in Nigeria

The USA that is the role model of democracy has been bombing innocent children and also running using CIA to perpetuate evil world wild . The subjects under oyo empire were safer than when Dahomey and Fulani slave raiders were picking them up for shipment to the new world.