₦airaland Forum

tctrills:
So was every other follower of Christ in the old testament. Moses was a follower of Christ. So by your qualification, he was a Christian

MaxInDHouse:
The PHARISEES, SADDUCEES, SCRIBES and all Jewish Rabbis believe that the Christ is their LORD but when Jesus came to teach them the things of the CHRIST they rejected it.
So it's only those who followed Jesus and ready to practice what he taught them that are Christians not all those calling him LORD! LORD! Simply because they have heard or seen his glory! Matthew 7:21-23

Michael547:
Show me a verse that says that Moses was a follower of christ.

tctrills:
Do you believe Jesus Christ does not lie? If you do, then why ask this question when Jesus Christ said
I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me.
This obviously includes Moses and every person who had a true relationship with God. They all came through Christ.
Again read
1 Corinthians 10:4

4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
It was Christ that led the children of Israel to their promise land.
So the question is do you believe Christ or not?

Michael547:
Oga John 14:6 is part of the law of christ for those who want to have a relationship with his father under the new covenant. It has nothing to do with the mosaic law which moses was the mediator of.

In the mosaic law, Moses was the mediator between the isrealites and God not christ. Hebrews 9:5 shows that christ is the mediator of the new covenant.

1 Corinthians 10:4 likens Jesus to a rock that gives water. It does not say that Jesus was the Rock which was an inanimate object. The water That Jesus gives is spiritual according to John 7:37 not the physical water that the isrealites drank. Don't twist Paul's words.

tctrills:
You just called Christ a liar and you seem to be smarter than Christ. If Jesus meant that only men who were born after him, he would not have said No Man. He doesn't make mistakes. So I prefer to believe Christ and disbelieve you. Please don't blame me for choosing Christ's words over yours.
Again 1 Corinthians 10:4
that verse clearly says Jesus was the rock. So again, you are wrong.

1 Corinthians 10:4
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Please read your Bible

tctrills:
100% he did. All the teachings in the old and new Testament are his teachings

tctrills:
But I showed you. Christ says no man can come to the father except through him. Moses and all the others came to the father. Clearly, no matter what I show you, you would doubt so it's of no use.

the bible never gave any human the title of mediator of the old testament. We have only one mediator according to your Bible.

Again even Christians in the bible were baptized unto John so it's no big deal.
And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

He never called Jesus Christ a lifeless rock but he tells you that the Children of Israel depended on Christ to reach the promise land. Without the rock, (Christ) they would have perished.

Michael547:
Oga Jesus is the mediator of the new covenant not the old one. So therefore anyone under the new covenant cannot come to the father except through Christ.
Oga Galatians chapter 3:19 and John 1:17 shows that Moses was the mediator between God and the isrealites. Hebrews 9:15 shows that Jesus is the mediator of the new covenant.

tctrills:
We learn of Jephthah in Judges 11 who sacrificed his daughter. Was it an act of righteousness or murder?

Michael547:
Oga Jesus is the mediator of the new covenant not the old one. So therefore anyone under the new covenant cannot come to the father except through Christ.


Oga Galatians 3:19 and John 1:17 shows that Moses was the mediator between God and the isrealites. Hebrews 9:15 shows that Jesus is the mediator of the new covenant.


Acts 19:5 shows that those who did John's baptism had to be baptized again into Christ to be called Christians.
Oga you now make Paul a lair. He teaches that there is only one mediator. Again I prefer to believe Paul, not you.


Paul did not say that Christ was the literal rock that isrealites drank from.....Paul clearly stated that the Rock followed the isrealites. He did not say that the isrealites followed the Rock. The Rock symbolizes Christ for Christians.

tctrills:
Oga you now make Paul a lair. He teaches that there is only one mediator. Again I prefer to believe Paul, not you.

Michael547:
Oga below In the screenshot are the words of Paul

MaxInDHouse:
I have told tctrills countless times that only JWs knows the sacred secrets of God's word but he often flair up with fruitless arguments now he's trying to come back as usual after years of staying away from my threads.

See questions coming from the same person who wants to argue on biblical topics:


https://www.nairaland.com/6970625/does-bible-endorse-human-sacrifice

tctrills:
Personal attacks, I thought you have changed or learnt.
But then, wash a pig, clean a pig and a pig is still a pig.
Why don't you focus on the topic instead of personal attacks?
If you don't want me contributing to this thread, just tell me and I promise I will live it alone for you and your members.
These days, I have lost interest in fighting personal battles. I only took the opportunity of your thread to put out the truth.
And as I as I am able to put out the truth and one or two people can read it, my work is done.

achorladey:
When the debate is lost, personal attacks resume, their standard mode of operation.

Michael547:
Oga below In the screenshot are the words of Paul

tctrills:
I have addressed your question in my previous comment and pointed you to Paul's writings in Galatians 3.19.

But now let me understand your own point of view.
Are you saying that before 2000 years ago, men could come unto the Father directly then Jesus came 2000 years ago and we lost that ability? We now depend on him to reach God?
Because, according to you, Moses could come unto God without Christ, same could Abraham, Abel and all the holy prophets
So I ask, why did man lose his ability to come unto God directly 2000 years ago.
Since according to you, Christ was wrong in saying no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. He was supposed to say, from now on, no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Again, if men of old could come to the Father without Christ, that what was the purpose of his coming? Because from your view point, he was not really needed.

Michael547:
Oga I never said that christ was wrong in John 14:6. In the Old testament, Christ was not the mediator. Moses was the mediator between God and the people of isrealites. Faithful servants of old were not required to put faith in Jesus to have a Relationship with the Almighty God Jehovah. After Jesus came to the earth, no man could come to the father without Jesus in the New covenant which Jesus is the mediator of.

tctrills:
I thought MaxInDHouse would have changed by now. I was wrong.
I understand that our beliefs don't align but is that reason to take it personal?

tctrills:
Personal attacks, I thought you have changed or learnt.
But then, wash a pig, clean a pig and a pig is still a pig.
Why don't you focus on the topic instead of personal attacks?
If you don't want me contributing to this thread, just tell me and I promise I will live it alone for you and your members.
These days, I have lost interest in fighting personal battles. I only took the opportunity of your thread to put out the truth.
And as I as I am able to put out the truth and one or two people can read it, my work is done.

tctrills:
I thought MaxInDHouse would have changed by now. I was wrong. I understand that our beliefs don't align but is that reason to take it personal?

MaxInDHouse:
The point is you don't believe in the Bible that's the problem you have so instead of trying to argue blindly just as for knowledge.

From Abel till today we are JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES but each generation of Jehovah's Witnesses bear different group names due to circumstances.
This are the group names Jehovah's Witnesses have been called in times past:

Israelites
Jews
The Way
Christians

From Abel to Job aren't Israelites but they are Jehovah's Witnesses yet the covenant that God made with the Israelites is what makes them dedicated to our God. Abraham is not an Israelite because the name Israel came from his grandson Jacob.
Elijah is not a Jew because he wasn't born into the tribe of Judah or Benjamin yet he is one of Jehovah's Witnesses.
John is a Jew but not a member of the Way or Christian because he never followed Jesus of Nazareth in doing the assignment Jesus gave his disciples but John is one of Jehovah's Witnesses like all others before him! Hebrews 12:1

So get it straight now.
It's the group name JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES that carried all these people together but in each generation they served Jehovah under a different group name!

MaxInDHouse:
Maximus can never change as long as you're not one of Jehovah's Witnesses don't come any close to me thinking you and i can ever be on the same page.

The difference between Christians and Jehovah's Witnesses is the topic of discussion.

God's Servants throughout all generations are all Jehovah's Witnesses but each generation has a group name that makes them part of our family and there is a reason why we are all related.

But claiming Abraham or David is a Christian simply because he worshiped Jehovah makes no practical sense!

tctrills:
You keep boasting about your funny group but each time we discuss I keep pointing you to Christ and showing you the errors in your doctrine.
The last time a member of JW called you an imposter. He was really ashamed of the way you represent them.
I was hoping you will reflect upon his words and grow up but I was wrong.
All through my discussions with you I have depended on the words of the bible in teaching you and not my personal opinion. Your organization is based on the personal opinion of your leaders not the word of God

tctrills:
As usual your personal opinion, I respect it but it's not based on the word of God. It's based on the opinions of your white leaders with no scripture to back it up.

MaxInDHouse:
Guy leave story.

Have you now seen that David is not a Christian?

tctrills:
You mean Jesus Christ was his Lord but he is not a follower of Jesus Christ right?
Please forget your leaders and start reading the bible on your own. I promise you will get a lot wiser.

MaxInDHouse:
Abraham and David aren't Christians!

MaxInDHouse:
Wisdom doesn't come from reading rather it's from listening to the chosen brothers of Christ.

"Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will" Matthew 7:21

Many like David called the Christ Lord! Lord!! but never practiced what Jesus taught so they are not his followers or Christians!

tctrills:
As I said, it's your opinion which happens to be against the word of God.
Let's go to your Bible and read about Abraham
Galatians 3
Passage
Resources
Hebrew/Greek
Your Content
Galatians 3
King James Version
3 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.


16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

Read verse 17 again God's promises to Abraham was confirmed in Christ. Same as the covenant of the new testament. So what is your problem.