₦airaland Forum

IbeOkehie:
I've explained and over explained. My comment record is open. For example, why should the FG set any minimum or maximum wage? Where will the money come from? How many government workers are PRODUCING anything?

Or try to look up reputable journals and sites focused on economics.

There's no mystery. Nigerians were warned in January 2012 when they insisted that fuel subsidy MUST remain. This is the PREDICTED outcome, nothing else could ever happen than exactly this situation.

Good Luck to Nigeria

You don't understand what you're writing. I am a fully qualified economist (graduated top of my class in one of Nigeria's most prestigious universities) no bragging...

If you're saying they shouldn't pay the new minimum wage (while earning in USD) and also not pay subsidy, then what template are you proposing to keep Nigerians alive? You do understand that the essence of the minimum wage is to prevent worker's exploitation and that Nigeria's (new) minimum wage still remains one of the lowest in Africa right?

Tinubu took two economically-important decisions simultaneously, without fully understanding the macroeconomic by-effects. If he had removed subsidy and kept the Naira value (controlled) or devalue the Naira and keep paying subsidy (which could be gradually removed, coupled with strong economic reforms), it would have been a good idea...

Now even the subsidy is being paid which is testament to the fact that he took a woeful economic decision!

Nonexisting1:
Hey everybody, we now have a time traveler in nairaland. He is telling us what would have happened if another person had won 2023 elections. Peter has been condemning this government on many policies which he himself would have done differently but you are here telling us what he would and would not do. Biko, are you a mind reader to know his mind?

Unlike you I am intelligent enough to know that to pay subsidies you must have the money. You cannot pay subsidies if you do not float the Naira because we were effectively bankrupt as at May 29th 2023. If you do not float the Naira all the gains will be eaten by subsidies.

It’s not rocket science elections are over use your brains!

Emvicprints1:
this your economics I don't understand. What stops them from fixing the refinaries?

Even if they fix the refineries we will have the same problem. Whether it is imported petrol or locally refined petrol once you are selling at below the market price you are subsidizing. You cannot sell petrol at half the price of Cameroun, Benin, chad and Niger and not expect smuggling. Once there is smuggling all the intended gains are lost.

IbeOkehie:
I've explained and over explained. My comment record is open. For example, why should the FG set any minimum or maximum wage? How many government workers are PRODUCING anything?

Where will the money come from? All the money was used to subsidize petrol, which is EXACTLY what the Nigerian people asked for. Helllloooooo!!!

Or try to look up reputable journals and sites focused on economics.

There's no mystery. Nigerians were warned in January 2012 when they insisted that fuel subsidy MUST remain. This is the PREDICTED outcome, nothing else could ever happen than exactly this situation.

Good Luck to Nigeria

the problem wasn't the subsidy but the skyrocketing population making it hard for the subsidy to be feasible. Even if somehow we found a creditor and subsidy remains for like 20 years more, with this current birth rate each Nigerian would be asked to either donate or be forced to pay n a worse case scenario

Nonexisting1:
With the way things are going now, the ronu miscreant that said in this forum that he would rather die than vote Peter Obi in 2027, I wonder if he is even still alive by now. If hunger hasn't finished him off already. No matter how much fuel sells for in this country now, God knows that I will never enter local bus with my well starched senator, never. Otito diri Jesu.

Na ndụ ebighị ebi

Selfmade007:
Nigeria really hard this days,Pray ALMIGHTY ALLAH help us all

Allah is not helping you or any other Nigerian. You use your hand to put the calamity ontop yourself.

obonujoker:
Tinubu is the worse president.

To cut hair now is 1,500... Because of this fuel wahala...

₦2k

helinues:
Toh

Toh ko, ya igbe dudu ni

Championhala:
the problem wasn't the subsidy but the skyrocketing population making it hard for the subsidy to be feasible. Even if somehow we found a creditor and subsidy remains for like 20 years more, with this current birth rate each Nigerian would be asked to either donate or be forced to pay n a worse case scenario

There is some truth to this, thanks a lot.

Even if the population is small, there would still be a lot of scarcity due to smuggling.

Evidence- Venezuela has the world's LARGEST crude oil reserves and a much smaller population than Nigeria. Yet Venezuela's refineries have all shut down and there's perennial scarcity of petrol there because a lot of it is smuggled to Colombia. Google is available, anyone can look this up.

Before this Venezuela was a normal country and one of the more developed 3rd World nations. Venezuela in 1999 elected a socialist party dedicated to providing cheap goods and services to the people. They got the inevitable result of socialism just like Nigeria is getting now. Nothing mysterious in all this.

Another angle - population growth is good if the population is productive. How to make people productive? As much as possible, leave them alone to do what they want. Unfortunately the Nigerian economy is basically and wholly socialist and dedicated to PREVENTING people from pursuing productivity or their natural right to be greedy and enjoy the profits that accrue.

omooba969:
Our growing population has nothing to do with anything, in fact, our number is an advantage if we had visionary leaders. Take a look at China, India, Brazil and US, do you think those guys would be complaining about their numbers?

Think about it.

Well, thanks. On point 👉

Good Luck to Nigeria

Championhala:
the problem wasn't the subsidy but the skyrocketing population making it hard for the subsidy to be feasible. Even if somehow we found a creditor and subsidy remains for like 20 years more, with this current birth rate each Nigerian would be asked to either donate or be forced to pay n a worse case scenario

Our growing population has nothing to do with anything, in fact, our number is an advantage if we had visionary leaders. Take a look at China, India, Brazil and US, do you think those guys would be complaining about their numbers?

Think about it.

OgbeniOja1:
when your time comes, rule Nigeria the way you want. for now. it's the turn of the south west and we love what he is doing period

You and who is we. Better speak for yourself

Amalekki:
It is well. The people of Benin Republic, Cameroon, Togo, Ghana, Niger Republic, Burkina Faso and several others have been buying fuel at the rate that Nigerians are just getting used to. They are not dead, they are not in hell. We are going to be fine. We should be tired of 64 years with no clear direction, we had several decades of subsidized fuel with nothing to show. Something has to give.

And there's widespread poverty and unending insecurity to show for it now. Some people will do anything to deceive themselves until it is too late 🤣🤣🤣🤣

By the way what is minimum wage in those countries you mentioned...go school Una no go gree

OgbeniOja1:
when your time comes, rule Nigeria the way you want. for now. it's the turn of the south west and we love what he is doing period

Thanks for being frank. Nothing do you

ClearFlair:
You and who is we. Better speak for yourself

He's speaking for the vast majority of Nigerians of every tribe, North and South.

This is why Nigerians are socialist. Socialism empowers government to steal from producers. The President controlling the government then can favor his own people with the government money. It's natural.

This is why the VAST MAJORITY of Nigerians of every tribe PREFER the current socialist Unitary Structure.

Good Luck to Nigeria

Amalekki:
Totally different issue.

I'm talking about the "heaven about to fall" shout. The people in those countries are not dead, they are doing fine. It is not death sentence.

Then let it be the sentence of people who like incompetence. They will not die

This one is more than hell

casualobserver:
Unlike you I am intelligent enough to know that to pay subsidies you must have the money. You cannot pay subsidies if you do not float the Naira because we were effectively bankrupt as at May 29th 2023. If you do not float the Naira all the gains will be eaten by subsidies.

It’s not rocket science elections are over use your brains!

No true intelligent man will vote in a failure and then turn around to say his opponent would also have turned out as failure. Mr. Intelligent indeed. For the records, Peter Obi would not have spent millions of dollars buying a new plane when there are many other presidential planes in his hanger. Ghana president uses a small plane but our own president wanted a whole A330. Peter Obi may embark on coastal road construction but not now that we don't have money. He will not continue with the purchase of presidential yatch even if it was preapproved. Peter Obi will not spend 21 billion to renovate VP house. Even if the contract was signed, Peter will halt it and divert the money to something more useful. Don't ask me how because he did it before and he can do it again. With this alone, Peter would saved some money that would have gone back to our economy. Do you want me to continue counting?

Even the blind followers don open the book of lamentations

Nonexisting1:
No true intelligent man will vote in a failure and then turn around to say his opponent would also have turned out as failure. Mr. Intelligent indeed. For the records, Peter Obi would not have spent millions of dollars buying a new plane when there are many other presidential planes in his hanger. Ghana president uses a small plane but our own president wanted a whole A330. Peter Obi may embark on coastal road construction but not now that we don't have money. He will not continue with the purchase of presidential yatch even if it was preapproved. Peter Obi will not spend 21 billion to renovate VP house. Even if the contract was signed, Peter will halt it and divert the money to something more useful. Don't ask me how because he did it before and he can do it again. With this alone, Peter would saved some money that would have gone back to our economy. Do you want me to continue counting?

Your obsession with Obi is preventing you from reasoning like someone with a brain. Therefore I cannot continue a conversation with you.

This is a simple matter, if you want petrol prices to remain low, explain how to achieve that given the circumstances of the country. I am not interested is emotional or political debates with people whose only motive is to vent their frustrations over losing an election.

Since I know you cannot answer, good night!

IbeOkehie:
Thanks for being frank. Nothing do you



He's speaking for the vast majority of Nigerians of every tribe, North and South.

This is why Nigerians are socialist. Socialism empowers government to steal from producers. The President controlling the government then can favor his own people.

This is why the VAST MAJORITY of Nigerians of every tribe PREFER the current socialist Unitary Structure.

Good Luck to Nigeria

Hope you understand the meaning of socialism? You have been conjuring imaginary economic jargons with an intent to support draconian policies of this administration. So only fuel subsidy gives the title of socialism?

shortgun:
Tinubu knows nothing about governance

you can say that again!

loveth360:
Losers Crying

Agbado monkey

stop lamenting,
u reduce to protest against bad governance and u are complaining

casualobserver:
Your obsession with Obi is preventing you from reasoning like someone with a brain. Therefore I cannot continue a conversation with you.

This is a simple matter, if you want petrol prices to remain low, explain how to achieve that given the circumstances of the country. I am not interested is emotional or political debates with people whose only motive is to vent their frustrations over losing an election.

Since I know you cannot answer, good night!

No matter how you people try to paint it, I can smell a ronu miscreant when he wails subtly. You tried to sound intelligent not knowing that a discerning mind could easily smell you people out. Tinubu is now president and all of a sudden, you people are beginning to sound logical. Ndi ara. Getat abeg, you think I too have time for your hypocrisy. Mtchew

Endure till next election so you can vote wisely.

When you vote a d*uggy on tribal grounds what do you expect?

Nonexisting1:
No matter how you people try to paint it, I can smell a ronu miscreant when he wails subtly. You tried to sound intelligent not knowing that a discerning mind could easily smell you people out. Tinubu is now president and all of a sudden, you people are beginning to sound logical. Ndi ara. Getat abeg, you think I too have time for your hypocrisy. Mtchew

You are an eeediot. Explain how you want to pay for subsidy you can’t. People like you is why they say siblings should not have sex and produce offspring.



I have been consistent. Check the dates some as far back as February

casualobserver:
Tinubu needs to sustain the Naira float, it will settle where it settles. He should remove subsidy. All these people panicking because there is difficulty only show why successive governments have led to this point. They don’t have the balls to do the right thing. What kind of person is advocating g a return of subsidies either Forex or petrol?

You cannot change your life without pain. If it costs him his second term so be it but he needs to sustain the reforms.

casualobserver:
clearly you are a product of a failed education system. i said he need to remove subsidy which implies i know subsidy is back.

casualobserver:
I will not forgive Tinubu if he backs down on these reforms, as it is I am unhappy he has reintroduced subsidy, we all need to rest our brains.

casualobserver:
You do not understand economics, this thing is above your pay grade.


We had no money as at May 29. We devalued the Naira which means the government is now getting 4 times more Naira that it did for every barrel of crude it sells. This means that for every dollar it used to get it needs less dollars to convert to Naira to meet its local obligations. Which means it can keep more of the dollars it earns and use for other things like subsidy although I have said subsidy should be removed totally. We are feeling pain because we did. It do what we needed to do at the right time. Petrol should be N1200, we are merely delaying the pain by reintroducing subsidy through the back door. If petrol needs to go to N2000, so be it. We need to change our habits. They don’t drive the cars we drive in Europe because petrol is expensive. It is only in Nigeria you will see a poor man driving a V8 gas guzzling used Lexus.

The title of this thread is exactly why I am against any form of fuel subsidy. We will eventually get back to where we were with inflated consumption numbers and where we end up subsidizing petrol for our neighbours. You cannot have petrol subsidies in a nation that has porous borders when your neighboring countries sell petrol at a rate 2x ours. If Niger, chad, Benin and Cameroun can pay N1200 for petrol then so can we, their citizens are poorer or just as poor as us and they are not rioting because petrol is N1200.

Chukwudi4naija:
Hope you understand the meaning of socialism? You have been conjuring imaginary economic jargons with an intent to support draconian policies of this administration. So only fuel subsidy gives the title of socialism?

I understand very well. Nigeria is NOT a free market economy. It's SOCIALIST.

IbeOkehie:
Classical economics teaches that there are THREE factors of production - LAND, LABOUR & CAPITAL. In a free market all three should trade freely with minimal hinderance. There should be no regulated pricing or government ownership.

LAND - there's no private ownership of land in Nigeria, while USA has private ownership of land.

CAPITAL - Nigeria fixes the price of currency, the USA does not.

LABOUR - both countries regulate labour prices, but in the USA different states can set different minimum rates, so there's some flexibility.

Everyone can judge which country has what kind of market and which has been more successful.

Malaysia and Indonesia are doing better than Nigeria overall. Palm oil is indigenous to Nigeria yet Malaysia and Indonesia produce far more than Nigeria now.

India used to be the Poverty Capital of the World until it reformed in 1998, grew richer and handed the title to Nigeria in 2018.

China in the 1950's had mass poverty and starvation and was only saved by reforms done in 1978.

If Nigeria can't or won't copy the USA and Sweden, Norway or Denmark or Switzerland how about those other countries? Maybe there's some other model people like you have in mind. Perhaps a homegrown economic system like Tanzania tried under Julius Nyerere?

https://www.juliusnyerere.org/resources/view/the_nyerere_legacy_and_economic_policy_making_in_tanzania

Because whatever Nigeria has been doing since 2015 or maybe 1999 surely isn't working and it's time to change course. A generation in demographic terms is 25 years, meaning Nigeria has lived a full generation under democracy and a significant portion of the populace is still engaged in mass migration.

If you folks don't like free markets, please elect a government that will try SOMETHING that works, anything.

There's no dignity in being the Poverty Capital of the World.

Good Luck to Nigeria

santaclaws:
You don't understand what you're writing. I am a fully qualified economist (graduated top of my class in one of Nigeria's most prestigious universities) no bragging...

If you're saying they shouldn't pay the new minimum wage (while earning in USD) and also not pay subsidy, then what template are you proposing to keep Nigerians alive? You do understand that the essence of the minimum wage is to prevent worker's exploitation and that Nigeria's (new) minimum wage still remains one of the lowest in Africa right?

Tinubu took two economically-important decisions simultaneously, without fully understanding the macroeconomic by-effects. If he had removed subsidy and kept the Naira value (controlled) or devalue the Naira and keep paying subsidy (which could be gradually removed, coupled with strong economic reforms), it would have been a good idea...

Now even the subsidy is being paid which is testament to the fact that he took a woeful economic decision!

If you're so proud of your education that you use it as a justification for an opinion, you should give us your real name. It's LAUGHABLE for an anonymous poster on Nairaland to pull this kind of argument by credential. Based on your comments, I choose to believe you have zero education in economics.

President Tinubu took the right decision but couldn't sustain it because the wrong decision had been made by Nigerians in January 2012, encouraged by Muhammadu Buhari & Bola Tinubu himself. Karma is a kountry!!!

In 2023 Nigeria was already BANKRUPT from over a decade of paying subsidies on fuel, forex, rice and pilgrimages. When Tinubu was elected President in 2023 he had no choice but to devalue and stop the subsidy. ALL the other candidates would have had to do EXACTLY the same thing.

The real opportunity lost was in January 2012.

Good Luck to Nigeria

santaclaws:
If Tinubu doesn't unfloat the Naira and control it like Buhari did, he might be stoned out of office (metaphorically) cos people are earning too low for them to afford buying commodities pegged at USD rates, especially fuel being the alternative to unstable power and also transportation.

The Naira isn't competitive yet, even Buhari knew this and made sure the CBN held it but Tinubu took an economically unsound decision by removing the subsidy and floating the Naira. This is what the IMF wants for Africa's largest economy and he was just a puppet who knew too little about the macroeconomy.

You get it. I have said it on many occasions that if Tinubu like let him climb the mountain Everest, nothing will change except he unfloat the Naira.
I still wonder why this primary economics situation is too difficult for them to understand.

IbeOkehie:
If you're so proud of your education that you use it as a justification for an opinion, you should give us your real name. It's LAUGHABLE for an anonymous poster on Nairaland to pull this kind of argument by credential. Based on your comments, I choose to believe you have zero education in economics.

President Tinubu took the right decision but couldn't sustain it because the wrong decision had been made by Nigerians in January 2012, encouraged by Muhammadu Buhari & Bola Tinubu himself. Karma is a kountry!!!

In 2023 Nigeria was already BANKRUPT from over a decade of paying subsidies on fuel, forex, rice and pilgrimages. When Tinubu was elected President in 2023 he had no choice but to devalue and stop the subsidy. ALL the other candidates would have had to do EXACTLY the same thing.

The real opportunity lost was in January 2012.

Good Luck to Nigeria

You can choose to believe anything your brain interprets, that's entirely your problem.

We're talking about current economic decision, you're referring to Jonathan's era... Ok now, rewind yourself back to 2012.

I don't have time for wasteful exchanges with people of low cognitive elasticity. Ciao!

9jatriot:
Considering that those countries are not richer than us, I wonder how they really do it.

Most of those countries have a few decent cities with higher standards of living not lots of urban areas where people sell on the road, on their head, inside wheelbarrow. Cheap fuel created imaginary cities full of poor people in Nigeria. Many should be in the villages not doing the same business of selling garri in wheelbarrow in the city.

ceejay80s:
war is coming,
na play una go call am
ur police and army will run.
endsars no tell police say Dem get fear,they begged for their lives?
army no fear from Boko Haram and bandits?
these are civilians fighting back,
I pity what's coming for them,
they should continue to push the citizens

Lol.. oga rest you Nigerians especially the youths are the biggest cowards I have ever seen. Nothing like war. These politicians will keep suffering you people