₦airaland Forum

Michael547:
So from acts chapter 19, If I call myself a Christian, Can I become born again without water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ?

Can we also say that the isrealites whom Paul said were baptized into Moses were Christians and born again without being baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ?

So you are moving to fast. The discussion here is about who qualifies to be a Christian. From that we can talk about who qualifies to be a born again or even progress to discuss who is born of God
1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
As I told you, Christianity is a journey that ends in perfect and in the kingdom of God .
Please note, I said, we can say they are christians. I didn't say definitely they are christians because it's in the heart and motive. I don't see the heart

tctrills:
So you are moving to fast. The discussion here is about who qualifies to be a Christian. From that we can talk about who qualifies to be a born again or even progress to discuss who is born of God
1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
As I told you, Christianity is a journey that ends in perfect and in the kingdom of God

Oga don't change topic.
So from acts chapter 19, If I call myself a Christian, Can I become born again without water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ?

Can we also say that the isrealites whom Paul said were baptized into Moses were Christians and born again without being baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ?

Oga don't change topic.
So from acts chapter 19, If I call myself a Christian, Can I become born again without water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ?
You don't even remember the topic.
Every Christian must be baptized and receive the Holy Ghost in order to become born again.

Can we also say that the isrealites whom Paul said were baptized into Moses were Christians and born again without being baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ?[/quote]
Yes we can say that they were Christians but we don't have enough evidence to know if they became born again or not.

tctrills:
Yes we can say that they were Christians but we don't have enough evidence to know if they became born again or not.

So why do you conclude that the isrealites were Christians, Since the Apostle paul said that they were baptized into Moses and you also don't have evidence that they were Baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus and born again?

Michael547:
So why do you conclude that the isrealites were Christians, Since the Apostle paul said that they were baptized into Moses and you also don't have evidence that they were Baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus?

I did not conclude that they were Christian my words were we could say they were. I don't see their heart and motive to know if they were and the bible makes us to know that most of them were very disobedient.
But I am saying that they don't even need to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ to qualify as disciples (Christians) Just like the men in Acts 19

Michael547:
So why do you conclude that the isrealites were Christians, Since the Apostle paul said that they were baptized into Moses and you also don't have evidence that they were Baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus and born again?

I have answered you question above. Please leave all other questions on the thread I will answer in the morning. Good night bro.

tctrills:
I did not conclude that they were Christian my words were we could say they were. I don't see their heart and motive to know if they were and the bible makes us to know that most of them were very disobedient.
But I am saying that they don't even need to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ to qualify as disciples (Christians) Just like the men in Acts 19

Do you have any evidence to show that the Isrealites whom the apostle Paul said were baptized into moses were disciples of Christ and therefore Christians like the men in Acts 19?

tctrills:
what do you disagree with in my response.

Anyone who lived and died before Jesus started his ministry can't be a Christian because in Christianity we must practice what Jesus taught {Matthew 7:24-27} and according to God's word what Jesus taught has never been heard before! Luke 4:32 compare to John 7:46

tctrills:
I am saying that they don't even need to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ to qualify as disciples (Christians) Just like the men in Acts 19

Who taught you that someone can become a Christian without being baptized first? Matthew 28:19

MaxInDHouse:
Who taught you that someone can become a Christian without being baptized first? Matthew 28:19

First, Matthew 28.19 did not say you should be baptized before you can be called a Christian.
Secondly you need to quote me correctly.
So if as a Christian family we have Young kids who are yet to be baptized, are those kids Christian or not?

MaxInDHouse:
Anyone who lived and died before Jesus started his ministry can't be a Christian because in Christianity we must practice what Jesus taught {Matthew 7:24-27} and according to God's word what Jesus taught has never been heard before! Luke 4:32 compare to John 7:46

Please which bible translation are you using? My translation is definitely not giving the same information as yours.
Luke 4.32
And they were astonished at his doctrine: for his word was with power.

Michael547:
Do you have any evidence to show that the Isrealites whom the apostle Paul said were baptized into moses were disciples of Christ and therefore Christians like the men in Acts 19?

Again, we need to look at individual lives to know who is a Christian or not but definitely some of them where christians.
At least that we can tell.
Numbers 11 gives you a number of baptized christians who received the spirit.
And in verse 29, we learn that God wanted the more people to be prophets and to have his spirit. So it's safe to believe that God made it possible for all those who had faith to receive his spirit just like the people in Acts.

In fact, let me paste the verse for your learning.
Numbers 11.19
And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the Lord'S people were prophets, and that the Lord would put his spirit upon them!

Note, Moses spoke about the Lord's people. So even in those days, we had the Lord's people.

So when you ask me if they all were Christians, I obviously don't know but at least we have some evidence that a number 9f them were Christians.
For the rest, we may not have evidence that they were or were not so it's ok if you and I say that we don't know.

tctrills:
Where is it stated that Matthew 28.19,20 is the commandment of being a Christian? Please show it to me in your translation my never said that was the commandment of being a Christian.
When Jesus Christ said follow me, all those who believe and follow him are Christians. Their journey begins there. It doesn't end when they are baptized or receive the Holy Ghost. It continues untill perfection

Above is your definition of who a Christian is. Did Jesus tell any of the Isrealite prophets in numbers 11:29 to follow him?

tctrills:
Again, we need to look at individual lives to know who is a Christian or not but definitely some of them where christians.
At least that we can tell.
Numbers 11 gives you a number of baptized christians who received the spirit.
And in verse 29, we learn that God wanted the more people to be prophets and to have his spirit. So it's safe to believe that God made it possible for all those who had faith to receive his spirit just like the people in Acts.

In fact, let me paste the verse for your learning.
Numbers 11.19
And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the Lord'S people were prophets, and that the Lord would put his spirit upon them!

Note, Moses spoke about the Lord's people. So even in those days, we had the Lord's people.

So when you ask me if they all were Christians, I obviously don't know but at least we have some evidence that a number 9f them were Christians.
For the rest, we may not have evidence that they were or were not so it's ok if you and I say that we don't know.

I specifically asked you if the ones that were baptized into Moses were Christians just like the ones who were baptized in John's baptism according to Acts chapter 19? Yes or no?

tctrills:
First, Matthew 28.19 did not say you should be baptized before you can be called a Christian.
Secondly you need to quote me correctly.
So if as a Christian family we have Young kids who are yet to be baptized, are those kids Christian or not?

They are not according to Jesus.

Note that Jesus is the Lord and baptism means dedication to Jehovah, at birth baby Jesus was taken to the temple for dedication to Jehovah {Luke 2:27} yet before he began his ministry as the head of Christianity {1Corinthians 11:3} Jesus insisted that John baptize him! Matthew 3:13

So a person who is not baptized can't serve as a Christian in the ministry that's what Jesus laid down as RIGHTEOUSNESS a must to be fulfilled! Matthew 3:15

tctrills:
Please which bible translation are you using? My translation is definitely not giving the same information as yours. Luke 4.32
And they were astonished at his doctrine: for his word was with power.

That verse simply means salvation has never been preached with authority before Jesus so it's after Jesus that people can be certain that they are qualified for everlasting life if they put everything Jesus commanded to practice. No prophet or law has declared salvation what the people knew is that they were serving God and when death comes God will reward them by remembering them during the resurrection but a Christian has been given what he needs to live forever that's why Christians were counted as being saved!

That's the import of the verse.

tctrills:
Please which bible translation are you using? My translation is definitely not giving the same information as yours.
Luke 4.32
And they were astonished at his doctrine: for his word was with power.

You better tell him to quote these scriptures sometimes. They don't align with his words sometimes too

MaxInDHouse:
That verse simply means salvation has never been preached with authority before Jesus so it's after Jesus that people can be certain that they are qualified for everlasting life if they put everything Jesus commanded to practice. No prophet or law has declared salvation what the people knew is that they were serving God and when death comes God will reward them by remembering them during the resurrection but a Christian has been given what he needs to live forever that's why Christians were counted as being saved!

That's the import of the verse.

No it doesn't mean stop making up things. Stick to what your Bible told you.

MaxInDHouse:
They are not according to Jesus.

Note that Jesus is the Lord and baptism means dedication to Jehovah, at birth baby Jesus was taken to the temple for dedication to Jehovah {Luke 2:27} yet before he began his ministry as the head of Christianity {1Corinthians 11:3} Jesus insisted that John baptize him! Matthew 3:13

So a person who is not baptized can't serve as a Christian in the ministry that's what Jesus laid down as RIGHTEOUSNESS a must to be fulfilled! Matthew 3:15

None of the verses you mentioned are saying what you wrote, why is that?

achorladey:
You better tell him to quote these scriptures sometimes. They don't align with his words sometimes too

He is not ashamed to tell his lies in public

MaxInDHouse:
That verse simply means salvation has never been preached with authority before Jesus so it's after Jesus that people can be certain that they are qualified for everlasting life if they put everything Jesus commanded to practice. No prophet or law has declared salvation what the people knew is that they were serving God and when death comes God will reward them by remembering them during the resurrection but a Christian has been given what he needs to live forever that's why Christians were counted as being saved!

That's the import of the verse.

Don't give your own meanings to the message. Stick to the word of God and not the word of your pastor.

tctrills:
None of the verses you mentioned are saying what you wrote, why is that?

Christians are followers of Christ no child who has not grown enough to make such a decision can be counted as a follower.

For instance according to the law if a 20 year old man sleeps with a 16 year old girl it is child abuse but if the girl is 18 they are both seen as adults.
In the same manner your faith doesn't save your child that's why God instructed His people to TEACH their children His laws {Deuteronomy 6:6-7} because the child must be given the freewill to decide for himself or herself if Christianity appeals to him or her.
It's when the child is old enough to make such a decision and actually took the step that he or she could be counted as one of Jesus' disciples!

tctrills:
Don't give your own meanings to the message. Stick to the word of God and not the word of your pastor.

According to that verse no prophet has ever spoken with full conviction like Jesus saying it's certain that whoever practices what he teaches will have everlasting life.
That's why the Pharisees and other Jewish Rabbis were antagonizing Jesus because they feel only God has the right to make such declaration whereas Jesus has been chosen to do the judging!

MaxInDHouse:
Christians are followers of Christ no child who has not grown enough to make such a decision can be counted as a follower.

For instance according to the law if a 20 year old man sleeps with a 16 year old girl it is child abuse but if the girl is 18 they are both seen as adults.
In the same manner your faith doesn't save your child that's why God instructed His people to TEACH their children His laws {Deuteronomy 6:6-7} because the child must be given the freewill to decide for himself or herself is Christianity appeals to him or her.
It's when the child is old enough to make such a decision and actually took the step that he or she could be counted as one of Jesus' disciples!

So a 16 years old girl is too young to be a Christian?
And yes, children are allowed to choose yet Jesus Christ tells your that the kingdom of God belongs to them. What you are saying is not adding up.

MaxInDHouse:
According to that verse no prophet has ever spoken with full conviction like Jesus saying it's certain that whoever practices what he teaches will have everlasting life.
That's why the Pharisees and other Jewish Rabbis were antagonizing Jesus because they feel only God has the right to make such declaration whereas Jesus has been chosen to do the judging!

The verse said nothing about prophets. So don't say according to the verse. Instead, say according to your pastor.

MaxInDHouse:
That verse simply means salvation has never been preached with authority before Jesus so it's after Jesus that people can be certain that they are qualified for everlasting life if they put everything Jesus commanded to practice. No prophet or law has declared salvation what the people knew is that they were serving God and when death comes God will reward them by remembering them during the resurrection but a Christian has been given what he needs to live forever that's why Christians were counted as being saved!

That's the import of the verse.

Was preached without authority right? tctrills you see why I say you read their post and don't hasten to respond to it. They will want to make you feel you don't really know anything by going back and forth then manipulate your words.

achorladey:
Was preached without authority right? tctrills you see why I say you read their post and don't hasten to respond to it. They will want to make you feel you don't really know anything by going back and forth then manipulate your words.

What shocks me is the way they say nonsense without fear.

MaxInDHouse:
Christians are followers of Christ no child who has not grown enough to make such a decision can be counted as a follower.

For instance according to the law if a 20 year old man sleeps with a 16 year old girl it is child abuse but if the girl is 18 they are both seen as adults.
In the same manner your faith doesn't save your child that's why God instructed His people to TEACH their children His laws {Deuteronomy 6:6-7} because the child must be given the freewill to decide for himself or herself if Christianity appeals to him or her.
It's when the child is old enough to make such a decision and actually took the step that he or she could be counted as one of Jesus' disciples!

cc: rottennaija

When Jehovah’s witnesses baptised as low as under 10 years old children and before they get baptised you hammer it into their brains that they are Christians and Jehovah's Witnesses. Those ones are indeed old enough to make the decision

tctrills:
What shocks me is the way they say nonsense without fear.

They say to want to prove to you that you are a liar and don't have the knowledge about the scriptures. I have said this repeatedly, the more they want to look different they look same with the very same people they love to condemn.

tctrills:
So a 16 years old girl is too young to be a Christian?
And yes, children are allowed to choose yet Jesus Christ tells your that the kingdom of God belongs to them. What you are saying is not adding up.

The kingdom of God doesn't belong to children o!
What Jesus meant is that anyone who wants to enter the kingdom of God must humble himself and become teachable like children because they are always willing to learn.

"They will dash you and your children within you to the ground, and they will not leave a stone upon a stone in you, because you did not discern the time of your being inspected.” Luke 19:44

Above is what Jesus told Israelites who refused to become Christians so their children will perish with them because they can't teach those children what they refused to learn!

tctrills:
The verse said nothing about prophets. So don't say according to the verse. Instead, say according to your pastor.

Blind argument again.
If David called Jesus his Lord {Psalms 110:1} it simply means no prophet has ever had what Jesus will bring.

But it's obvious you just enjoy arguing for the sake of it so stick to your lane.

MaxInDHouse:
Blind argument again.
If David called Jesus his Lord {Psalms 110:1} it simply means no prophet has ever had what Jesus will bring.

But it's obvious you just enjoy arguing for the sake of it so stick to your lane.

Yes Jesus Christ was above all prophets but the verse you mentioned was not talking about that. You made up that fake interpretation.
Stick to what the verse tells you not what your pastor tells you.
The problem with many of you today is that you make the word of God secondary to your pastor's words

tctrills:
Yes Jesus Christ was above all prophets.

Evidence from the Old Testament please!