₦airaland Forum

Borrow222:
No need for that sef.

Look at the fuel prices in oil-producing countries on the list and compare them to Nigeria's prices. You'll realize that Nigerians are being exploited, making it a living hell for its citizens.

Exploited Indeed, country with over 220 million people for 1.6 million barrels of crude oil per day, people wey just dey born pikin any how like rabbits.

How dey no go suffer for that zoo.

nairalanda1:
Libya also has 8 million people. We have 260 million people

Therefore Libya has more money per Capita than we do

That's why they can afford subsidies. We can't

Intelligent man.

nairalanda1:
UK, US, Germany also

1. Have very high tax rates, in Germany it can reach half your income for the year.

2. Have diversifed industrial economies that export industrial products. Does Nigeria have that.?

3.Subsidise fuel for the very very needy...who are means tested before they get the subsidy...and yes, that includes food for example.

4. Note, they don't do subsidy for everybody, for a select few of people

5. Fuel prices in the US and UK and Germany can be much higher than Nigeria thanks to massive fuel tax...especially in many parts of the USA for example.

6. Even then, subsidised sectors are heavily in debt...eg Germany train system is subsidsed and is also heavily in debt.


Try again?

Plus saying the above does not mean I support tinubu, dumbass.

if you had given it a proper thought you no suppose even talk p, while we agree UK, US ,Germany have high taxes it is also imperative to known those countries measures in place to compensate and reimburse the citizens

In those countries high taxes are paid, they infrastructures and social services the commensurate and justify the "high tax" in Nigeria one god forsaken politician will loot the fund and nothing will happen

if Nigeria dont have industrial economy whose fault, with the cbn incessant interest rate hike or the ill thought fiscal policies of the useless Tinubu govt which one facilitate enabling environment for industrial operations.
Aside Tinubu sharing what are measure the old fool as come up with to support industrialization

Bro you are not talking to a bush, in develop countries incentives, palliative and subsidy are structure to address "ALL " citizens who need it.

Higher fuel price in Uk, Us and Germany bear no adverse effect on economic operation of those countries besides most household or business may never need fuel to run, the high taxes is justified

Debt is inevitable .. but you must agree those subsidized sectors are effective and they operate at optimal service as a citizen thats my concern, i dont know where you belong

in the last two decades, the money spent on our refineries repair is enough to build new dangote kind of refinery but nothing to show ... thats the system you are trying so fvcking hard to defend, you fail bro

chidiokay:
if you had given it a proper thought you no suppose even talk p, while we agree UK, US ,Germany have high taxes it is also imperative to known those countries measures in place to compensate and reimburse the citizens

Which they can afford because of very high revenues, which is due to...you guessed it...high taxes and diversifed economies

In those countries high taxes are paid, they infrastructures and social services the commensurate and justify the "high tax" in Nigeria one god forsaken politician will loot the fund and nothing will happen

So, we are at the chicken and egg question

They have good infrastructure because they charge high enough taxes which yield the kind of revenue to not only build those nice infrastructre, but also to maintain it very well, and modernize it if need be.

Not Nigeria where the average allawee from the federal government to a state is not up to what one hospital in the USA spent to expand its facilites. Before looting o.
ANd Nigeria charges shit taxes. Take away corruption..the revenue is too low to get to where US and UK and so on are

THAT IS WHY STEALING IN NIGERIA IS EVIL, AND WHY WE HAVE TO STOP IT.

if Nigeria dont have industrial economy whose fault, with the cbn incessant interest rate hike or the ill thought fiscal policies of the useless Tinubu govt which one facilitate enabling environment for industrial operations.
Aside Tinubu sharing what are measure the old fool as come up with to support industrialization

And also the useless policies of most governments, from independence

Nigeria's economy since independence has been run on the priniciple of sell raw materials, share the money, import stuff. That is why we are as broke as anything

Not just Nigeria...pick any African nation, even the South Africans, and it is the same story, and no one has been run by a NIgerian (Well, the DR Congo's LIngala people did emigrate from what is now NIgeria over a thousand years ago, but that's not important).

Bro you are not talking to a bush, in develop countries incentives, palliative and subsidy are structure to address "ALL " citizens who need it.

No, subsides in developed countries are not explixit subsides...as we do here, where we force the business to sell below production prices and pay them a subsidy to compensate them for the resultant loss. Which works, until inflation and rising costs of production set in

(A little secret...NIgeria used to subsidise food items. It worked until 1982 when oil prices crashed, by 1984/5 there was mass food scarcity especially of ESSENCO items. WHen IBB took over, he removed food subsides. Since then, you have not have to be queueing for milk and sugar for example.)

IN developed countries, subsides are either production subsidies, which are given to companies in the forms of grants or tax breaks (what we do here for Dangote, otherwise cement would be 20000 for a 50kg bag by now)...or subsides to the poor...means tested poor. In other words, if you are earning below a certian amount, you qualify for such subsides. But they are not meant to be permanent...once you are back on your feet, the subsidy goes.

Higher fuel price in Uk, Us and Germany bear no adverse effect on economic operation of those countries besides most household or business may never need fuel to run, the high taxes is justified

I wish it was true...it isn't. LIfe can be difficult there.

Debt is inevitable .. but you must agree those subsidized sectors are effective and they operate at optimal service as a citizen thats my concern, i dont know where you belong

The problem is, we cannot subsidese fuel on a budget of 18 billion dolalrs for 200 million people. You need something like trillion dollars before we can talk.

I am not joking.

Doing that for 4 decades is why we have a large debt burden and several years of deficit budgeting

Or if you are now accepting debt, then better praise Buhari and tinubu for the debt they got us into...because a large chunk of it was due to susbdies. As for me, that's bunkum economics of APC.

in the last two decades, the money spent on our refineries repair is enough to build new dangote kind of refinery but nothing to show ... thats the system you are trying so fvcking hard to defend, you fail bro

Yawn.

If the refinery is not making a profit, it does not matter if you sink Bill Gate's entire fortune into it...so long as you sell fuel at a loss, the loss will eat up the money sunk therein. That and corruption because free money.

Subsidy is not sustainable.

nairalanda1:
Which they can afford because of very high revenues, which is due to...you guessed it...high taxes and diversifed economies



So, we are at the chicken and egg question

They have good infrastructure because they charge high enough taxes which yield the kind of revenue to not only build those nice infrastructre, but also to maintain it very well, and modernize it if need be.

Not Nigeria where the average allawee from the federal government to a state is not up to what one hospital in the USA spent to expand its facilites. Before looting o.
ANd Nigeria charges shit taxes. Take away corruption..the revenue is too low to get to where US and UK and so on are

THAT IS WHY STEALING IN NIGERIA IS EVIL, AND WHY WE HAVE TO STOP IT.




And also the useless policies of most governments, from independence

Nigeria's economy since independence has been run on the priniciple of sell raw materials, share the money, import stuff. That is why we are as broke as anything

Not just Nigeria...pick any African nation, even the South Africans, and it is the same story, and no one has been run by a NIgerian (Well, the DR Congo's LIngala people did emigrate from what is now NIgeria over a thousand years ago, but that's not important).



No, subsides in developed countries are not explixit subsides...as we do here, where we force the business to sell below production prices and pay them a subsidy to compensate them for the resultant loss. Which works, until inflation and rising costs of production set in

(A little secret...NIgeria used to subsidise food items. It worked until 1982 when oil prices crashed, by 1984/5 there was mass food scarcity especially of ESSENCO items. WHen IBB took over, he removed food subsides. Since then, you have not have to be queueing for milk and sugar for example.)

IN developed countries, subsides are either production subsidies, which are given to companies in the forms of grants or tax breaks (what we do here for Dangote, otherwise cement would be 20000 for a 50kg bag by now)...or subsides to the poor...means tested poor. In other words, if you are earning below a certian amount, you qualify for such subsides. But they are not meant to be permanent...once you are back on your feet, the subsidy goes.




I wish it was true...it isn't. LIfe can be difficult there.


The problem is, we cannot subsidese fuel on a budget of 18 billion dolalrs for 200 million people. You need something like trillion dollars before we can talk.

I am not joking.

Doing that for 4 decades is why we have a large debt burden and several years of deficit budgeting

Or if you are now accepting debt, then better praise Buhari and tinubu for the debt they got us into...because a large chunk of it was due to susbdies. As for me, that's bunkum economics of APC.




Yawn.

If the refinery is not making a profit, it does not matter if you sink Bill Gate's entire fortune into it...so long as you sell fuel at a loss, the loss will eat up the money sunk therein. That and corruption because free money.

Subsidy is not sustainable.

Bro what are even saying, these countries make high revenue cos they maximize there resources and the govt spares no effort to creat an enabling environment for businesses to thrive then the TAX last.
Moveover this taxes turn revenue are used to fund a variety of goods, programs, and services to support the American public and pay interest incurred from borrowing.

it is not about affordability the difference is in priorities. like we see Tinubu govt prioritize Hajj subsidy over education/ health
Tinubu Govt told us we are broke, states are owing, pensioneers are owed But Tinubu govt could afford private jet, cardillac beast & yatcht .. if we no broke nkor !

Bro get the arguement, everywhere in the world it provision before billing, no america we pay high tariff for darkness, no america we pay high taxes if he graded the road to his house himself, no america we pay high taxes if he has to hire viligante and pay monthly.
As a Nigerian after paying high tax, i know i will stil drive my car on bad roads, @ the fed hospital i will still hear no bed space , i know i still have to arrange viligante, i still have to send my children to private schools cos govt will do nothing asides loot
Tinubu promise us money saved from subsidy removal wil be use for infrastructures, today no subsidy savings nowhere to be found and these are the people you believe will use our Taxes right.

No amount of salary you earn, if you are wasteful spender or gambler you wont gather properties. The only thing in politicians head is steal, loot and loot

From my observation so far nairalanda1 is a government agent defending those oppressing the people.


So all the Tand M maintenance done within the past 10 years is enough to get us producing atleast 70% of our needs on petrol but that guy no dey look that side.


The smuggling thing is a farce trust me.
If the smuggling thing was real it is still cheaper to smuggle from libya to Nigeria and make profit

Nigeria will make enough gain if she supplies the whole of West Africa finished petroleum products at the price she sells to Nigerians so lets stop all these crap.

Of asking Nigerians not to demand for better living. By our Constitution Nigeria is a welfarist state and not a capitalist state. So let our Leaders do the needful

guobe:
Check out Egypt too as they also have a large population but still sell cheap fuel.
In Nigeria we have the more you look the less you see.

from my rough calculation/estimate Egypt revenue per capita 2023 was around 282 usd with Nigeria was 12 usd. That is over 20 times Nigeria. The first thing could have been trying to clear the corruption in the subsidy regime afterwards phased removal of the subsidies which could then be reallocated to public transportation/agriculture/health

Pythagoras001:
from my rough calculation/estimate Egypt revenue per capita 2023 was around 282 usd with Nigeria was 12 usd. That is over 20 times Nigeria. The first thing could have been trying to clear the corruption in the subsidy regime afterwards phased removal of the subsidies which could then be reallocated to public transportation/agriculture/health

Yes corruption is also our bane.

okeyley:
From my observation so far nairalanda1 is a government agent defending those oppressing the people.


So all the Tand M maintenance done within the past 10 years is enough to get us producing atleast 70% of our needs on petrol but that guy no dey look that side.


The smuggling thing is a farce trust me.
If the smuggling thing was real it is still cheaper to smuggle from libya to Nigeria and make profit

Nigeria will make enough gain if she supplies the whole of West Africa finished petroleum products at the price she sells to Nigerians so lets stop all these crap.

Of asking Nigerians not to demand for better living. By our Constitution Nigeria is a welfarist state and not a capitalist state. So let our Leaders do the needful

1. If you think that I am defending government by supporting subsidy removal, ye are daft.

2. If you sell something at a loss, like petrol, from a refinery...it does not matter how much kudi you pour into the refinery.....it still won't work well at all.

3. Refineries need to make enough profit to work. Subsidy prevents them from making such profit.

4. Better read up about why subsidy does not work, then you will understand why I oppose it.

5. Stop being a joker. Not everyone who disagrees with you supports useless APC.

chidiokay:
Bro what are even saying, these countries make high revenue cos they maximize there resources and the govt spares no effort to creat an enabling environment for businesses to thrive then the TAX last.
Moveover this taxes turn revenue are used to fund a variety of goods, programs, and services to support the American public and pay interest incurred from borrowing.

Chicken and egg again.

Their government can create the enabling environment because....TAXES...which bring in .....REVENUE

Not like NIgeria. You cannot create enabling environment on a budget of 18 bn dollars, when we need at least 10 billion dollars of annual investment in the power sector to pay for 24 hour power

See the problem? But like most of you daft on this site....you miss the wodds for the trees.

it is not about affordability the difference is in priorities. like we see Tinubu govt prioritize Hajj subsidy over education/ health
Tinubu Govt told us we are broke, states are owing, pensioneers are owed But Tinubu govt could afford private jet, cardillac beast & yatcht .. if we no broke nkor !

SO MY SUPPORTING SUBSIDY REMOVAL MEANS I SUPPORT GOVERNMENT WASTE SPENDING?

You are a daft person, old chap. One can support sane economic policies, but also can call what tinubu is doing on yachit and plane and new cars for the senators wrong and rubbish

Seriously, grow up son.

Bro get the arguement, everywhere in the world it provision before billing, no america we pay high tariff for darkness, no america we pay high taxes if he graded the road to his house himself, no america we pay high taxes if he has to hire viligante and pay monthly

Chicken and egg argument. America has good power, because at the end of the day, they pay high tariff, and their power sector makes a profit, which means they can attract investment

NIgeria? We pay too low for power, even now less than 20% of the consumers pay for power at market price, while the rest pay loss making subsides.

And what the power sector earns is not up to the 10 billion dollars annual investment needed, even if government pays all its obligations.

And you expect power under these circumstances?

Seriously, ye are daft.

.

As a Nigerian after paying high tax, i know i will stil drive my car on bad roads, @ the fed hospital i will still hear no bed space , i know i still have to arrange viligante, i still have to send my children to private schools cos govt will do nothing asides loot
Tinubu promise us money saved from subsidy removal wil be use for infrastructures, today no subsidy savings nowhere to be found and these are the people you believe will use our Taxes right.

1. You pay high tax because you are part of the 30% that pays taxes...70% of NIgerians do not pay tax to state or federal government

2, Hospitals are heavily subsidised, which means they cannot make a profit, which means they cannot expand facilites and do all the nice things hospitals do

Plus, budget for health is less than 3 billion dollars. In countries where things work, healthcare budgets start at 50 billion, even 100 billion.

3. Same for education

4. In addition, we have bad roads because over 2 decades ago, we stopped tolling them. BIG EFFING MISTAKE. South Africa has decent roads...because they toll them

No amount of salary you earn, if you are wasteful spender or gambler you wont gather properties. The only thing in politicians head is steal, loot and loot

Agreed, and it gets worse if the money is not enough in the first place.

nairalanda1:
Which they can afford because of very high revenues, which is due to...you guessed it...high taxes and diversifed economies



So, we are at the chicken and egg question

They have good infrastructure because they charge high enough taxes which yield the kind of revenue to not only build those nice infrastructre, but also to maintain it very well, and modernize it if need be.

Not Nigeria where the average allawee from the federal government to a state is not up to what one hospital in the USA spent to expand its facilites. Before looting o.
ANd Nigeria charges shit taxes. Take away corruption..the revenue is too low to get to where US and UK and so on are

THAT IS WHY STEALING IN NIGERIA IS EVIL, AND WHY WE HAVE TO STOP IT.




And also the useless policies of most governments, from independence

Nigeria's economy since independence has been run on the priniciple of sell raw materials, share the money, import stuff. That is why we are as broke as anything

Not just Nigeria...pick any African nation, even the South Africans, and it is the same story, and no one has been run by a NIgerian (Well, the DR Congo's LIngala people did emigrate from what is now NIgeria over a thousand years ago, but that's not important).



No, subsides in developed countries are not explixit subsides...as we do here, where we force the business to sell below production prices and pay them a subsidy to compensate them for the resultant loss. Which works, until inflation and rising costs of production set in

(A little secret...NIgeria used to subsidise food items. It worked until 1982 when oil prices crashed, by 1984/5 there was mass food scarcity especially of ESSENCO items. WHen IBB took over, he removed food subsides. Since then, you have not have to be queueing for milk and sugar for example.)

IN developed countries, subsides are either production subsidies, which are given to companies in the forms of grants or tax breaks (what we do here for Dangote, otherwise cement would be 20000 for a 50kg bag by now)...or subsides to the poor...means tested poor. In other words, if you are earning below a certian amount, you qualify for such subsides. But they are not meant to be permanent...once you are back on your feet, the subsidy goes.




I wish it was true...it isn't. LIfe can be difficult there.


The problem is, we cannot subsidese fuel on a budget of 18 billion dolalrs for 200 million people. You need something like trillion dollars before we can talk.

I am not joking.

Doing that for 4 decades is why we have a large debt burden and several years of deficit budgeting

Or if you are now accepting debt, then better praise Buhari and tinubu for the debt they got us into...because a large chunk of it was due to susbdies. As for me, that's bunkum economics of APC.




Yawn.

If the refinery is not making a profit, it does not matter if you sink Bill Gate's entire fortune into it...so long as you sell fuel at a loss, the loss will eat up the money sunk therein. That and corruption because free money.

Subsidy is not sustainable.

Please can you help me with our latest budget deficit figure?

nairalanda1:
Chicken and egg again.

Their government can create the enabling environment because....TAXES...which bring in .....REVENUE

Not like NIgeria. You cannot create enabling environment on a budget of 18 bn dollars, when we need at least 10 billion dollars of annual investment in the power sector to pay for 24 hour power

See the problem? But like most of you daft on this site....you miss the wodds for the trees.



SO MY SUPPORTING SUBSIDY REMOVAL MEANS I SUPPORT GOVERNMENT WASTE SPENDING?

You are a daft person, old chap. One can support sane economic policies, but also can call what tinubu is doing on yachit and plane and new cars for the senators wrong and rubbish

Seriously, grow up son.




Chicken and egg argument. America has good power, because at the end of the day, they pay high tariff, and their power sector makes a profit, which means they can attract investment

NIgeria? We pay too low for power, even now less than 20% of the consumers pay for power at market price, while the rest pay loss making subsides.

And what the power sector earns is not up to the 10 billion dollars annual investment needed, even if government pays all its obligations.

And you expect power under these circumstances?

Seriously, ye are daft.

.


1. You pay high tax because you are part of the 30% that pays taxes...70% of NIgerians do not pay tax to state or federal government

2, Hospitals are heavily subsidised, which means they cannot make a profit, which means they cannot expand facilites and do all the nice things hospitals do

Plus, budget for health is less than 3 billion dollars. In countries where things work, healthcare budgets start at 50 billion, even 100 billion.

3. Same for education

4. In addition, we have bad roads because over 2 decades ago, we stopped tolling them. BIG EFFING MISTAKE. South Africa has decent roads...because they toll them



Agreed, and it gets worse if the money is not enough in the first place.

You sound as though you know but you dont know shit ..

Govt they say is continuity .. govt cant creat an enabling ground under one what happens to continuity approach but are these criminals in govt even ready to do anything asides looting nite & day
Can 18 billion budget build a coastal road , but the govt embarked on it cos development are long term project.

Here you are talking about the power sector, in 2021 govt intervention fund expended # 1.7 trillion, in 2022 alone #1.3 trillion ... despite all these huge amount Nigeria never surpass 5000megawatt,

Thank God dangote built a refinery, govt apologist like you would have told us we dont have the money even when its public knowledge money spent on our refineries repair in the last 20yrs is enough to build two dangote like refinery ..

That you support the govt subsidy removal shows how naive you are, or does your discretion not tell you subsidy is stil on but these in an illicit mode ... is that the govt you support .. shame on you

Mumu subsidizing does negate profit, what subsidy means is govt pay up a % of what the citizens would incured, and these measure is wildly practice in developed countries ... govt hospitals are not well maintained and upgraded cos of corruption..

You are so full of shit, we have so much bad roads in Nigeria cos of corruption, most of these roads are being budgeted for but along the way funds are looted,

in as much as Corruption is deeply rooted in our govt, No amount of Tax or revenue can amount to development .. no matter how the water tap rushes or multiple hoses you direct to a basket .. naa waste

Do you remember excess crude savings, the governors dragged FG to court nd shared that money ... today what do they have to show

where is all the savings from subsidy is gone, any gain .... looking back with the state of the nation, 8yrs of sacrificing under buhari what did we gain .. na Ogun go kill all una children

guobe:
I saw this from my Google search and from what I noticed ,Libya also an oil rich country like Nigeria is the lowest with barely 0.03 dollar per litre .
Currently in Nigeria, we now have a dollar exchanging to 1600 naira and fuel is now sold at 1300 naira and very soon they may become equal
So what is now the benefit to Nigerians of becoming an oil rich producing nation?
We are now making use of the gas prices of the United state of America when we don't have the economy of the USA.

The population of Libya is less than 8m. Compare that to Nigerias over 220m. They are not even up to half of Lagos. 8m people sharing Nigerias type of oil. Imagine if all Nigerias money were to come to Lagos alone. Don't you think Lagos would have been better than Dubai ? Why won't they be comfortable? Don't let Obi keep deceiving you, there is nothing he can do if he gets there. We are not as rich as some people think courtesy of our population.