₦airaland Forum

flyinnizam:
this one na really mumu..
u open acc not long ago, u don spend 4days
..me open account since 4years na just 1month 26days. u be really ipob terrorist

Mugu!!! Na title for u b Dat... U can't grow

Tormentor001:
Mugu!!! Na title for u b Dat... U can't grow

ur brain na really beans...only u say I spend more time, I give u start, u continue ur mumu talk. Ipob man I am not the cause of ur hunger go to aso rock

flyinnizam:
ur brain na really beans...only u say I spend more time, I give u start, u continue ur mumu talk. Ipob man I am not the cause of ur hunger go to aso rock

Mugu! Talk make I help ur life make suffer no kill u

Dead on arrival...

Ipob would always fall

Tormentor001:
Mugu! Talk make I help ur life make suffer no kill u

suffer no wan finish u, nai u complain about my comment? ekpa

flyinnizam:
suffer no wan finish u, nai u complain about my comment? ekpa

Complain keh say u b who... Mugu go find ur size out there oloshi

Lookmun:
The assertion “no black man/Nigerian is free from corruption” sounds like what a lady whose heart has been broken again and again might say that “all men are scum.” Neither of these hasty generalizations are correct. The fact that society has been getting worse and worse because the administration of justice and the system of law and order has been consistently broken down doesn’t mean that all Nigerians are terrible.

Back to your point, nobody is advocating absolute powers to anyone. We are simply saying let there be true separation of powers such that when A’s powers end, B’s powers begin etc etc. What we have today is a situation where the people that are supposed to check the powers of the executive are under his apron. Even if you have that system in the USA for decades, there will be a societal decadence in the USA. If you want to address fundamental issues, these are the issues to look at.

If the administration of justice and the system of law and order is non-existent in any place - Canada, Uganda or Mongolia - the effects are the same, it’s just a matter of time. So if someone is recommending that the electoral umpire is truly free from the aprons of the executive BUT STILL SUBJECT TO THE LAWS OF THE LAND, it’s only a fraudulent person that would kick against it.

All these things that you mention that government should start doing - free education, care for children and the aged, employment, etc. Why will the government do these things when they know that they have the power to elect themselves even though they failed during their tenure? If it was possible for a people to govern themselves without leadership, then there would be no need for leaders. If leadership is faulty in a society you cannot expect the society to function orderly. It’s just like parents that spend that have young kids but spend time in different ogogoro joints. If the children turn out irresponsible, it’s not going to be a surprise. If you are wondering why those children turn out as riff-rafts without addressing the root cause, it’s similar to expecting a good society from bad leadership.

Anywhere in the world, once the MSMEs are given support and an enabling environment, they grow and begin to employ more and more and contribute to the growth of the economy.

People steal because of all the following:

1. There is uncertainty about tomorrow
2. The opportunity arises
3. They know that if they are caught, so long as they have the money or connection to cover it up, they will likely get away with it.
4.
The first and second points speak to failure of government to provide a economic security to the populace in the midst of abundant God-given wealth and that’s why people try to get wealth at all cost and once the slightest opportunity opens up to be fraudulent, they grab it. The third point speaks to consequence management. People know that it’s who you know or what you have that determines the consequence for your punishment. In a society where enforcement of the law is based on what you have and how connected you are to the powers that be, how will people be motivated to do what is right? In fact some people that do the right thing get punished by the system and there is no reprieve for them. When you obey the law (as a female for example) and you are diligent in civil service but you are stagnant and yet your colleagues who warm the bed of permanent secretary are getting promoted, how do you want to advise such a person to do the right thing. If the leadership system is faulty, the society cannot be good.

In summary any attempt for change in society without leadership is a waste of time. Individuals don’t have state powers or instruments of coercion to enforce right behaviors but when the people that have these powers use it to acquire unusual wealth, amass more and more power, then you cannot have a good society.

I am quite understand your points as a fundamentalist, this is where our failure begins. We always thought we can do it withiout addressing the problem we all have as black race, especially the ones imbedded in our traditions. Greed and tendency to dominate or being worship are the major characteristics of African cultures. It is so unfortunate that we all forgot the same leaders emanated from the same society with the same cultures and traditions..

If you say a black man can liberate himself, why was he unable to do so many decades into civilization era? Why was he remain at the bottom of the ladder and unable to bring himself out?

I won't type much because African issue has only one solution, which is to remove reasons to steal by removing power to accumulate private properties from individuals. No politicans/leaders, both dead or alive can give you that because it is not in their nature to do so. We can only start by providing basic necessity of life for people in which I highlighted in my previous post.

For instance, if my income is 100k, and I tell a government properties agent that I wanted to buy a house worth 20 millions with cash, they will definitely ask me where I get the money from. Since it has became illegal to do it myself, I may not have choice but to stop looking for 20m cash that I cannot afford in the first place. Also, if I know that government will take care of my children needs, and also myself off active years, there is no point accumulating unnecessary wealth for my old age or children to inherit.

People steal because of uncertainty of future, and once that is removed, people will no longer see the need to be corrupt.

I was once an apostles of good leaders, strong institutions, etc, but looking back at African culture/tradition, every single soul born into that bloodline has a tendency to be corrupt or abuse power when given opportunity. Have you ever wonder why we Africans performed excellently well in Western countries but come back home to become our real version? It was once like that in western countries and other developed nations until they took those factors into consideration, which eventually free their societies from greed and unpatriotism.

It is after this that good and patriotic leaders can emerge from nearly corruption free society.

Tormentor001:
Complain keh say u b who... Mugu go find ur size out there oloshi

mumu go find food chop or go aso rock go fight ppl wey wan kill.u wit hunger

yemmit90:
I am quite understand your points as a fundamentalist, this is where our failure begins. We always thought we can do it withiout addressing the problem we all have as black race, especially the ones imbedded in our traditions. Greed and tendency to dominate or being worship are the major characteristics of African cultures. It is so unfortunate that we all forgot the same leaders emanated from the same society with the same cultures and traditions..

If you say a black man can liberate himself, why was he unable to do so many decades into civilization era? Why was he remain at the bottom of the ladder and unable to bring himself out?

I won't type much because African issue has only one solution, which is to remove reasons to steal by removing power to accumulate private properties from individuals. No politicans/leaders, both dead or alive can give you that because it is not in their nature to do so. We can only start by providing basic necessity of life for people in which I highlighted in my previous post.

For instance, if my income is 100k, and I tell a government properties agent that I wanted to buy a house worth 20 millions with cash, they will definitely ask me where I get the money from. Since it has became illegal to do it myself, I may not have choice but to stop looking for 20m cash that I cannot afford in the first place. Also, if I know that government will take care of my children needs, and also myself off active years, there is no point accumulating unnecessary wealth for my old age or children to inherit.

People steal because of uncertainty of future, and once that is removed, people will no longer see the need to be corrupt.

I was once an apostles of good leaders, strong institutions, etc, but looking back at African culture/tradition, every single soul born into that bloodline has a tendency to be corrupt or abuse power when given opportunity. Have you ever wonder why we Africans performed excellently well in Western countries but come back home to become our real version? It was once like that in western countries and other developed nations until they took those factors into consideration, which eventually free their societies from greed and unpatriotism.

It is after this that good and patriotic leaders can emerge from nearly corruption free society.

To be fair to Africa, industrialization was built on the backs of the black race. Not only were they enslaved for centuries, structures were put by colonizers that make it very difficult to break away from the shackles. It’s called neo-imperialism (a modern form of slavery). However, the right leadership will solve any of these problems. Humans generally have an innate tendency for greed, selfishness and tendency to dominate others. The white man is included if not they will not have enslaved the black race. In Nigeria we have leaders and the people. We have not really had leaders of integrity not because there are no great leaders with integrity in the society but because the SYSTEM that brings in leaders make it difficult for the good ones to come in. If American citizens should live in a society where the executive appoints and pays the electoral umpire and the justices, law and order will break down. They can’t escape it. Chinese people do all manner of things here that they can’t do in their home BECAUSE OUR SYSTEM ALLOWS IT.

The solution to this problem is for the people to come together and demand accountability from the leaders but unfortunately when some people say they want to do that, some other people will act as detractors mainly because of tribe, religious leaning and political affiliation. Because the politicians know that people defend them even when they do wrong, it emboldens them to do more wrong with impunity. If a people movement will succeed, it has to have unity, solidarity and cohesion. What you have in Nigeria is that when some people are protesting bad governance, some will say that the government is good so there is no real cohesion. When some people want to push to ensure that the electoral umpire is truly independent, some others will insist that the umpire should remain under the umbrella of the executive. That’s the real problem.

You say the solution is to remove private ownership of property? I guess you are advocating for communism system where the government owns the property and government feeds the people. Even if it was the solution, who will implement it when government officials see politics as the highest business in the land. That leads us to the real problem - leadership. So long as leadership is the way it is, you may have 1000 great ideas but they will intentionally frustrate it because the are gaining very much from the status quo. That’s why the people have to compel the leaders to do the right thing. Any where in the world where leadership has a change of behavior, it was the people that pushed for it. But as I highlighted earlier, we are too divided along fault lines of tribal, religious and political affiliation that it becomes very hard for the citizens to have a common front.

America and the western world did not overcome their problems through socialism or communism so that’s not really the solution. Their leaders in the past institutionalized the right behaviors and it became a culture to them over the years. Whenever their leaders were doing rubbish, they were not defending their leaders. That’s the difference.

flyinnizam:
mumu go find food chop or go aso rock go fight ppl wey wan kill.u wit hunger

Find food keh? U dey whine? Na me go help u werey

Tormentor001:
Find food keh? U dey whine? Na me go help u werey

go help ur hungry family...I am very okay agbaya

flyinnizam:
go help ur hungry family...I am very okay agbaya

Stupid person

Tormentor001:
Stupid person

same as ur father

flyinnizam:
same as ur father

You don't have one sorry for your loss...

Of course we aren't all bad citizens but it seems we have more bad folks going by the stats..


quote author=Lookmun post=132940181]
We are not all bad. Many Nigerians are doing great and commendable things home and abroad. Individuals do not have state powers or instruments of coercion to enforce the right behaviors that will correct societal ills. If a people could govern themselves without leaders, there would be no use for leaders. A wise man said “everything rises and falls on leadership.”[/quote]

Lookmun:
To be fair to Africa, industrialization was built on the backs of the black race. Not only were they enslaved for centuries, structures were put by colonizers that make it very difficult to break away from the shackles. It’s called neo-imperialism (a modern form of slavery). However, the right leadership will solve any of these problems. Humans generally have an innate tendency for greed, selfishness and tendency to dominate others. The white man is included if not they will not have enslaved the black race. In Nigeria we have leaders and the people. We have not really had leaders of integrity not because there are no great leaders with integrity in the society but because the SYSTEM that brings in leaders make it difficult for the good ones to come in. If American citizens should live in a society where the executive appoints and pays the electoral umpire and the justices, law and order will break down. They can’t escape it. Chinese people do all manner of things here that they can’t do in their home BECAUSE OUR SYSTEM ALLOWS IT.

The solution to this problem is for the people to come together and demand accountability from the leaders but unfortunately when some people say they want to do that, some other people will act as detractors mainly because of tribe, religious leaning and political affiliation. Because the politicians know that people defend them even when they do wrong, it emboldens them to do more wrong with impunity. If a people movement will succeed, it has to have unity, solidarity and cohesion. What you have in Nigeria is that when some people are protesting bad governance, some will say that the government is good so there is no real cohesion. When some people want to push to ensure that the electoral umpire is truly independent, some others will insist that the umpire should remain under the umbrella of the executive. That’s the real problem.

You say the solution is to remove private ownership of property? I guess you are advocating for communism system where the government owns the property and government feeds the people. Even if it was the solution, who will implement it when government officials see politics as the highest business in the land. That leads us to the real problem - leadership. So long as leadership is the way it is, you may have 1000 great ideas but they will intentionally frustrate it because the are gaining very much from the status quo. That’s why the people have to compel the leaders to do the right thing. Any where in the world where leadership has a change of behavior, it was the people that pushed for it. But as I highlighted earlier, we are too divided along fault lines of tribal, religious and political affiliation that it becomes very hard for the citizens to have a common front.

America and the western world did not overcome their problems through socialism or communism so that’s not really the solution. Their leaders in the past institutionalized the right behaviors and it became a culture to them over the years. Whenever their leaders were doing rubbish, they were not defending their leaders. That’s the difference.

I don't think you took your time very well to comprehend my posts.

There is total different between communism( public ownership, including the means of production), and removing the reason to steal or accumulate properties. I didn't say people should not own properties, I was literally saying government should remove power to accumulate properties from private individuals. You were actually confused between the uses of terms " OWNING AND ACCUMULATION" .That was why I highlighted what government can do to discourage people from accumulating properties, which cumulated to a vital reason people are embezzled public fund in Africa. Check my posts very well, I didn't say government should stopped people from owning properties, i was only saying that, the power to accumulate or build ones should be remove and vested in the hands of government or government backed private properties companies. I even suggested that individuals can built businesses but must comes in form of Limited liability companies that shares can be obtain.

It is the same system western countries are using, because it promote accountability and transparency to check mate corrupt citizens.

I also sum up your other points, and still see you don't really understand what I was trying to opines( Impact of African cultures/traditions on its social-economic development).

Let me explain this in a simple term, a society are first formed from individuals, follow by families, groups of families, villages, towns, and upto a larger society. Since these set of people sees the need to have a constituted authority to promote common goals and aspirations, they picked one or few of them, to whom they surrendered their individual power for protection or to collectively move their society forward. My exact point here is that, societies are the real reflection of its leaders. You can't give what you don't have.

While I will agree with you that tribalism, religions and political affiliation will hinder people from coming together to demand accountability, the greatest of them all is greed. The reality is that, a selected few that should lead the movement due to the same problem (greed) could be easily bought out in this part of the world.

Americans were able to institutionized their behaviors because they took both capital and humans resource seriously by taking care of physiological needs of their people. Nigeria and Africa will remain the same, until one leader accidentally embark on what I highlighted in my previous post.as long as people sees basic necessity of life as luxury, corrupt will continue to consume us the black race.

If you want to know the basic tenet of European and American system, try to read all the theories and postulations from Socrates, upto the recent Karl max. That will give you an insight of how a good society are built.

Apel147:
Of course we aren't all bad citizens but it seems we have more bad folks going by the stats..


quote author=Lookmun post=132940181]
We are not all bad. Many Nigerians are doing great and commendable things home and abroad. Individuals do not have state powers or instruments of coercion to enforce the right behaviors that will correct societal ills. If a people could govern themselves without leaders, there would be no use for leaders. A wise man said “everything rises and falls on leadership.”

We were not always like this. As the system of justice and law and order continued to break down, societial values began to diminish. If you hear children today say that they will steal money when they get to power, it was a strange thing to say many years back. When the head is faulty, the body takes the shape of the head.

Even if you carry Americans and put them in a place where there is opportunity to do wrong and get away with it, it’s just a matter of time, they will be grossly corrupt.

yemmit90:
I don't think you took your time very well to comprehend my posts.

There is total different between communism( public ownership, including the means of production), and removing the reason to steal or accumulate properties. I didn't say people should not own properties, I was literally saying government should remove power to accumulate properties from private individuals. You were actually confused between the uses of terms " OWNING AND ACCUMULATION" .That was why I highlighted what government can do to discourage people from accumulating properties, which cumulated to a vital reason people are embezzled public fund in Africa. Check my posts very well, I didn't say government should stopped people from owning properties, i was only saying that, the power to accumulate or build ones should be remove and vested in the hands of government or government backed private properties companies. I even suggested that individuals can built businesses but must comes in form of Limited liability companies that shares can be obtain.

It is the same system western countries are using, because it promote accountability and transparency to check mate corrupt citizens.

I also sum up your other points, and still see you don't really understand what I was trying to opines( Impact of African cultures/traditions on its social-economic development).

Let me explain this in a simple term, a society are first formed from individuals, follow by families, groups of families, villages, towns, and upto a larger society. Since these set of people sees the need to have a constituted authority to promote common goals and aspirations, they picked one or few of them, to whom they surrendered their individual power for protection or to collectively move their society forward. My exact point here is that, societies are the real reflection of its leaders. You can't give what you don't have.

While I will agree with you that tribalism, religions and political affiliation will hinder people from coming together to demand accountability, the greatest of them all is greed. The reality is that, a selected few that should lead the movement due to the same problem (greed) could be easily bought out in this part of the world.

Americans were able to institutionized their behaviors because they took both capital and humans resource seriously by taking care of physiological needs of their people. Nigeria and Africa will remain the same, until one leader accidentally embark on what I highlighted in my previous post.as long as people sees basic necessity of life as luxury, corrupt will continue to consume us the black race.

If you want to know the basic tenet of European and American system, try to read all the theories and postulations from Socrates, upto the recent Karl max. That will give you an insight of how a good society are built.

Are you then saying that in western countries, private individuals are not allowed to accumulate properties? I don’t think so. Maybe you should tell me which countries do this. In western countries, so long as you can afford to stack up and accumulate as many properties as you want, you can do so. In the western world you can accumulate properties as Mr Andrew or Andrew Ltd and it doesn’t have to have any connections with the government. This is capitalism guided by enforceable laws. It drives competition and innovation and ultimately grows the economy. Also there are so many micro, small and medium enterprises in the western world. You don’t have to be a limited liability company before you can operate. In fact you may not even need to be in the stock market to operate.

The egg produces the chicken but the chicken is the initial source of the egg. In the same vein, the society produces the leaders but leadership enforcement of law and order is the initial factor that influences societal behavior. This means that if a country was good but the administration of law and order (which is a leadership function) breaks down, the society will become more and more lawless as time goes on. Also, when an organization or system is bad and the leaders decide to correct the anomalies and begin to punish wrong behavior and ensure that the right behaviors are enforced, sooner than later, that system or organization begins to change for the better. If a system or organization or society is bad today, it can be better tomorrow. If a society can be good without the intervention of leaders, there would be no real need for leaders. If a country can steer its affairs and maintain law and order without leaders, there would be no need for leaders. But it’s impossible.

Even if people are greedy, if laws are effective to punish wrong behavior, whether you are Donald Trump that wanted to be president when he lost the election, they will have to behave rightly by force. Infact most humans are greedy because they think about themselves and their families primarily. The reason why a greedy individual will still behave in an acceptable way in the society is if:

a) regulations are effective meaning that if you do wrong (cheat to gain etc), you will likely be caught
b) the laws are not selective and are applicable no matter who is involved. Meaning that even if you are Donald Trump, if you mess up, you will face the music.

That greedy person will have no choice but to behave in an acceptable manner. But in some other places, because the regulation is not strong, you will likely getaway with wrongdoing and even if you get caught eventually, the laws can be bypassed on your behalf if you have the money or connection.

No matter the good idea being suggested, it is the leaders that still need to implement it. But they will never implement it if it favours them. That’s why the people need to come together and look away from those things that divide us and demand good leadership. That’s how it s done everywhere. Nations overcome bad leadership when they come together any where in the world. In the western world you can’t find people arguing about manual collation of votes vs electronic transmission. They will compel the leaders to embrace electronic transmission but if you come here they will tell you that it doesn’t matter.

Lookmun:
Are you then saying that in western countries, private individuals are not allowed to accumulate properties? I don’t think so. Maybe you should tell me which countries do this. In western countries, so long as you can afford to stack up and accumulate as many properties as you want, you can do so. In the western world you can accumulate properties as Mr Andrew or Andrew Ltd and it doesn’t have to have any connections with the government. This is capitalism guided by enforceable laws. It drives competition and innovation and ultimately grows the economy. Also there are so many micro, small and medium enterprises in the western world. You don’t have to be a limited liability company before you can operate. In fact you may not even need to be in the stock market to operate.

The egg produces the chicken but the chicken is the initial source of the egg. In the same vein, the society produces the leaders but leadership enforcement of law and order is the initial factor that influences societal behavior. This means that if a country was good but the administration of law and order (which is a leadership function) breaks down, the society will become more and more lawless as time goes on. Also, when an organization or system is bad and the leaders decide to correct the anomalies and begin to punish wrong behavior and ensure that the right behaviors are enforced, sooner than later, that system or organization begins to change for the better. If a system or organization or society is bad today, it can be better tomorrow. If a society can be good without the intervention of leaders, there would be no real need for leaders. If a country can steer its affairs and maintain law and order without leaders, there would be no need for leaders. But it’s impossible.

Even if people are greedy, if laws are effective to punish wrong behavior, whether you are Donald Trump that wanted to be president when he lost the election, they will have to behave rightly by force. Infact most humans are greedy because they think about themselves and their families primarily. The reason why a greedy individual will still behave in an acceptable way in the society is if:

a) regulations are effective meaning that if you do wrong (cheat to gain etc), you will likely be caught
b) the laws are not selective and are applicable no matter who is involved. Meaning that even if you are Donald Trump, if you mess up, you will face the music.

That greedy person will have no choice but to behave in an acceptable manner. But in some other places, because the regulation is not strong, you will likely getaway with wrongdoing and even if you get caught eventually, the laws can be bypassed on your behalf if you have the money or connection.

No matter the good idea being suggested, it is the leaders that still need to implement it. But they will never implement it if it favours them. That’s why the people need to come together and look away from those things that divide us and demand good leadership. That’s how it s done everywhere. Nations overcome bad leadership when they come together any where in the world. In the western world you can’t find people arguing about manual collation of votes vs electronic transmission. They will compel the leaders to embrace electronic transmission but if you come here they will tell you that it doesn’t matter.

Ok.

Tormentor001:
You don't have one sorry for your loss...

mumu...tell ur papa to come be my papa driver and houseboy as una poor and dey suffer so...make we help him.life

Agreed!!!

Lookmun:
We were not always like this. As the system of justice and law and order continued to break down, societial values began to diminish. If you hear children today say that they will steal money when they get to power, it was a strange thing to say many years back. When the head is faulty, the body takes the shape of the head.

Even if you carry Americans and put them in a place where there is opportunity to do wrong and get away with it, it’s just a matter of time, they will be grossly corrupt.

flyinnizam:
mumu...tell ur papa to come be my papa driver and houseboy as una poor and dey suffer so...make we help him.life

Upload ur papa car make i see. Mugu wey dey stay for face me i slap u dey form on here.
By their way of typing we shall know dem.

Tormentor001:
Upload ur papa car make i see. Mugu wey dey stay for face me i slap u dey form on here.
By their way of typing we shall know dem.

houseboy, u don wash ur oga car today?

flyinnizam:
houseboy, u don wash ur oga car today?

Mugu! U just a noise maker and a mofo

Tormentor001:
Mugu! U just a noise maker and a mofo

tomorrow morning wake up early to wash ur madam toilet oo mumu

flyinnizam:
tomorrow morning wake up early to wash ur madam toilet oo mumu

Ur papa get motor enter snap..
Bastard wey no get levels

Tormentor001:
Ur papa get motor enter snap..
Bastard wey no get levels

idiotic nonentity.... Hope u don wash ur madam pants finish? useless boy

flyinnizam:
idiotic nonentity.... Hope u don wash ur madam pants finish? useless boy

Stupid slave

Tormentor001:
Stupid slave

full time simpleton

flyinnizam:
full time simpleton

Stupid u!

Tormentor001:
Stupid u!

mumu u

flyinnizam:
mumu u

Stupidity in ur lineage not surprised. Go get a job