₦airaland Forum

satmaniac:
Nice question!!! Your intelligence shone through this post and I am not saying this to flatter you. Let me start answering this question by putting everything in its proper context. I will assume you have no ulterior motive behind the post but an honest question that needs clarification.

So on this, Quran 6:8
وَقَالُوا۟ لَوْلَآ أُنزِلَ عَلَيْهِ مَلَكٌۭ ۖ وَلَوْ أَنزَلْنَا مَلَكًۭا لَّقُضِىَ ٱلْأَمْرُ ثُمَّ لَا يُنظَرُونَ
They say, “Why has no angel come with him?” Had We sent down an angel, the matter would have certainly been settled , and they would have never been given more time ˹to repent˺.

The first things we need to know is that the polytheists and the disbelievers of Makkah made so many statement, as their rejected the idea of Muhammad messengerhood, one of which the above verses responds to. In Quran 25:7 this statement is attributed to the disbelievers And they said, "How come this messenger eats the food and walks in the markets? If only an angel could come down with him, to serve with him as a preacher!"

The disbeliever wanted to see the angel physically assisting Muhammad in delivering the message to them, before they believed him. So, it is a mistake for you to think that Allah claims not to send an angel with the revelation to Muhammad.

1. Is there any other verse(s) in the Quran that says clearly that an Angel was sent to Mohammed?

Yes there is. Your answer is in Quran 2:97 and other places in the Quran Say, "anyone who opposes Gabriel should know that he has brought down this(Quran) into your heart(not a physical book), in accordance with God's will, confirming previous scriptures, and providing guidance and good news for the believers."

I hope I have answered your question?

LegalWolf:
Lol by a potential thief?? .:.. Hehehe 🤣🤣🤣🤣

TenQ:
I must render my heart of appreciation to you for your knowledge and insight into one of the two questions posed. You have done extremely well in answering the question of if there is another verse in the Qur'an that says Jubril was sent to Mohammed. I wish other Muslims do well enough to take such questions seriously and study rather than play gymnastics.

I will agree with you on this:
Qur'an 2:97 seem to say that Jubril was sent to convey the Qur'an into the heart of Mohammed. This is in line with the Tafsirs on Qur'an 2:97 by Al-Abbas, Al-Jalalayn and Ibn Kathir (with a detailed background).

Thank you once again on this.


So, my dear friend,
1. How do we reconcile the apparent difference in the statement of Allah in Qur'an 6:7-10 AND Qur'an 2:97.

Because,Qur'an 6:7-10 emphatically says no Angel was sent either in human for nor angel form to Mohammed while Qur'an 2:97 seem to say that Jubril was sent to convey the Qur'an into the heart of Mohammed.

2. If Jubril was not sent physically to Mohammed, where did we get the story of Mohammed's first encounter with Jubril in the cave and the encounter of IQRA and the account that Jubril resemble Dihya bin Kalbi , visitations of Jubril to the house of Mohammed, Umar even testified of Jubril came before them as a man with extremely white clothing and extremely black hair.

Are all these stories manufactured by enemies of Islam?


Let me stop here as I await your response.
Thank you!

satmaniac:
Thank you for your kind words.
What I deduced from your post from the presentation and your reasoning is you are intelligent as well as sensible. However, I am beginning to sense something from your reply to my comment. There is this vibe you are giving out now. Something like, you are here to argue and not have a discussion. Let me make myself categorically clear by saying I am not here to argue with you. I am here to have a civil discussion.

Why I am feeling this way is that, I pointed out in my earlier comment that, the verse you quoted was a response to one of the statement of the disbelievers - that the angels have to had accompanied Muhammad, physically appearing before they believe. Now what is so irreconcilable here? Please state clearly what need to be reconciled as regards to 6:7-10 and 2:97.

You will notice in my reply to your post, I did not bother talking about the incident at the cave of HIRA. I have a strong reason for doing that. So, as someone who hold on to what Muhammad came with only(Quran), I will leave them to come and answer the question.

TenQ:
Your apparent lack of knowledge of Islam has been betrayed by sat.maniac. Please learn from him.

LegalWolf:
Lol, a potential thief is telling me to learn 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

TenQ:
Yes, learn your religion properly. Anyone who read this thread will conclude that you are EMPTY

LegalWolf:
LOL! A future thief has the nerves to say someone is empty...Idi.At

TenQ:
Have you answered a single question in this thread?

Obviously NO!

Meaning that you simply don't know enough to answer intelligently

LegalWolf:
I should answer a future thief? It is the nerve for me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TenQ:
But it seems you are not aware of your senseless childish ramblings you've been making. It doesn't show you know ANYTHING of value in your religion, take it or leave it.
Truth be said: you are the loser for it.

LegalWolf:
Lol, so a future thief like you is a winner ? Huh 🤔 ? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

TenQ:
Thanks for keeping me company on this thread. It would have been me alone. LOL!

Another time, I'll still holla you.


But I noticed something with you.
You are learning fast and will soon graduate.
Do you know that like your prophet, you can't be trusted on a truce or covenant.!?

Let me remind you:
While your prophet was weak, small and scared of the Meccans, it was the Christian king of Abyssinia that protected him. However, when Mohammed became strong and big, he declared that Christians be forced to pay the Jizya or die. It's the same fruit, and you are doing well.

Thank you. I hope you'll graduate soon!

TenQ:
Who Do We Believe In This Case: The Almighty Allah Or The Islamic Traditions

A few days ago , I came across these verses in the Quran and maybe it is my understanding that is incomplete: hence I wish all muslims and the scholars will help me comprehend the CLEAR Words of Allah without Addition or Subtraction.

Quran 6:7
وَلَوْ نَزَّلْنَا عَلَيْكَ كِتَـٰبًۭا فِى قِرْطَاسٍۢ فَلَمَسُوهُ بِأَيْدِيهِمْ لَقَالَ ٱلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوٓا۟ إِنْ هَـٰذَآ إِلَّا سِحْرٌۭ مُّبِينٌۭ
Had We sent down to you (O Prophet) a revelation in writing and they were to touch it with their own hands, the disbelievers would still have said, “This is nothing but pure magic!”
Quran 6:8
وَقَالُوا۟ لَوْلَآ أُنزِلَ عَلَيْهِ مَلَكٌۭ ۖ وَلَوْ أَنزَلْنَا مَلَكًۭا لَّقُضِىَ ٱلْأَمْرُ ثُمَّ لَا يُنظَرُونَ
They say, “Why has no angel come with him?” Had We sent down an angel, the matter would have certainly been settled , and they would have never been given more time ˹to repent˺.
Quran 6:9
وَلَوْ جَعَلْنَـٰهُ مَلَكًۭا لَّجَعَلْنَـٰهُ رَجُلًۭا وَلَلَبَسْنَا عَلَيْهِم مَّا يَلْبِسُونَ
And if We had sent an angel, We would have certainly made it ˹assume the form of˺ a man—leaving them more confused than they already are.
Quran 6:10
وَلَقَدِ ٱسْتُهْزِئَ بِرُسُلٍۢ مِّن قَبْلِكَ فَحَاقَ بِٱلَّذِينَ سَخِرُوا۟ مِنْهُم مَّا كَانُوا۟ بِهِۦ يَسْتَهْزِءُونَ١
Other˺ messengers had already been ridiculed before you ˹O Prophet˺, but those who mocked them were overtaken by what they used to ridicule.


So, Lets begin:
1. In verse 10: Allah seem to accept the fact that Mohammed is ALSO a Messenger (as other messengers have been sent before Mohammed who also have been ridiculed)
2. In verse 7: Allah said that he DID NOT send the revelations to Mohammed as a printed book from heaven, as the disbelievers would regard it as just magic (they wouldn't still believe anyways)
3. In verse 8: Allah says that he DID NOT send an Angel to Mohammed (even though these disbelievers ask why no angel has been sent to him) because IF he did, their judgement would have been concluded and thus cannot repent again
4. In verse 9: Allah says that IF HE DID SEND an Angel, the Angel would have come in the form of an ordinary Man which would even leave the disbelievers more confused. i.e. Allah DID NOT send any Angel even in form of a Man (not to even think as an Angel)


My Questions:
In Quran 6:7-10 it seems Allah is saying in no ambiguous terms that he DID NOT send any Angel to Mohammed either as an Angel (spirit being) or as a Man (physical being).
However, Islamic TRADITIONS say that the Angel Jibril was the one who always brought the Quran to Mohammed. There is even the elaborate story of Jibril's first encounter with Mohammed where he was squeezed and commanded to Recite!

1. Is there any other verse(s) in the Quran that says clearly that an Angel was sent to Mohammed?
2. Who do you think we should believe in this case, the almighty Allah OR Islamic Traditions ?

Thank you.



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GothamCities:
Is there no Muslim to answer these questions? Satmaniac did not answer these questions in my opinion because the issue here was not whether an angel followed Mohammed to the market or not. The issue is that Allah is saying if he had sent an angel 'to', not WITH Mohammed, then the people would have had instant judgement. If he had sent a book, they would say it's magic and would have been more confused. This is not a matter of sending an angel with Mohammed while he went to the market.

And also, Muslims should try and reconcile these verses with the verse that says a certain Gabriel was sent to Mohammed to bring the Quran to his heart.

I trust antichristian with his vast knowledge of the Quran would be able to bail us out.

This is a post dating as far back as 2023. If there are no answers, let's agree that Muslims have been deceived.

TenQ:
Thank you sir.
The religion based on fabrications don't notice lies when they memorise the arabic they don't understand.

What is so difficult in answering the questions

1. Is there any other verse(s) in the Quran that says clearly that an Angel was sent physically to Mohammed?
2. Who do you think we should believe in this case, the almighty Allah OR Islamic Traditions ?

GothamCities:
I have waited patiently for my friend, antichristian to answer this question to no avail!

TenQ:
Muslims do not have an answer for this problem.

They have fabricated how Jibril squeezed Mohammed and asked him to read, but hear, Allah emphatically said that no angel was sent to Mohammed.

The question is: Who is telling lies?
Is it Allah or the Muslims?


WIthout lies, Islam dies!

GothamCities:
But I thought the incident of the Jubril squeezing mohammed to read what he could not read was also recorded in the Quran. Or what it a hadith that mentioned that?

GothamCities:
Someone has also brought up an interesting topic of why the Injeel (Good News) is in the Quran when Muslims don't believe Jesus brought any Good News; He simply taught what other prophets before Him have taught. I think that's a very interesting thread where I would be glad to see your contribution too.

TenQ:
This is not in the Quran o.
It is only in their traditions.

In the Quran they forgot that Allah says that no single prophet was sent physically to Mohammed,

The Injeel is not in the Quran but it was acknowledged that
1, The Injeel was a Book (scripture) given to Jesus
2. The Injeel is the Word of Allah which thus cannot be changed or corrupted
3. The Injeel as Book was with the Christians (at the time of Mohammed)
4. Mohammed's name is written in the Injeel BUT the Christians refused to believe in him
5. Christians were commanded by Allah to judge by the Injeel (with them)


Numbers 3, 4 and 5 raises some serious problems for modern Muslims.

1. If these are true, then the Quran is False
2. If these are false, the Quran is still False
This is the Islamic unsolvable dilemma

GothamCities:
Oh, I see. The Jubril things are only in the hadith.


Please correct the bolded in your post.


All these are meaningless talks. It shows mohammed didn't even know what the Gospels are all about.




Please explain these. I don't understand why you arrived at both conclusions.

TenQ:
1. If these are true, then the Quran is False

If the Injeel is truly the book of Allah and the book of Allah cannot be corrupted, the content of the Bible contradict the Qur'an of Allah eg. Jesus is the Son of God and Jesus was crucified on the cross






2. If these are false, the Quran is still False
This is the Islamic unsolvable dilemma

If the content of the Bible is false , it means Allah either didn't know the content of the Injeel to claim that the book came from him nor Allah couldn't preserve his word. This makes Allah /Islam wrong again as claimed by Allah.

GothamCities:
Thanks for the clarification.

Quasim6 said their Injeel is the revelation Allah gave Jesus which has now been destroyed. Can't these people reason for themselves?

TenQ:
It is either Quasim6 is telling lies or Allah is telling lies

Are theses verses TRUE or FALSE?

Qur'an 7:157
Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with them. He will enjoin on them that which is right and forbid them that which is wrong. He will make lawful for them all good things and prohibit for them only the foul; and he will relieve them of their burden and the fetters that they used to wear. Then those who believe in him, and honour him, and help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him: they are the successful.

Qur'an 2:41
And believe in what I reveal, confirming the revelation which is with you, and be not the first to reject Faith therein, nor sell My Signs for a small price; and fear Me, and Me alone.

Qur'an 2:89
And when there cometh unto them a scripture from Allah, confirming that in their possession - though before that they were asking for a signal triumph over those who disbelieved - and when there cometh unto them that which they know (to be the truth) they disbelieve therein. The curse of Allah is on disbelievers.

Qur'an 2:101
And when there cometh unto them a messenger from Allah, confirming that which they possess, a party of those who have received the Scripture fling the Scripture of Allah behind their backs as if they knew not,

We have hundreds of complete scriptures in Greek, Latin, Ethiopian languages that predates Islam by at least 300 years. Therefore onus is on them to show us extracts of the original bible.

Secondly,
Allah claims that no one can change his words
Quran 6:115:
"And the word of your Lord has been fulfilled in truth and in justice. None can alter His words, and He is the Hearing, the Knowing."