₦airaland Forum

Kukutente23:
Well.... that's another angle to the debate that might just be the death knell for the VAT debate

Oga, RMAFC doesn't make bill. It is a committee and at best constituted by the executive federal government of Nigeria.

A bill is a law once passed. A number of bills (laws) are in existence and sometimes they contradict each other but the ultimate law in Nigeria is the Constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria hence in such cases, the position of the Constitution takes pre-eminence.

The committee can join in the public debate on the bill on the floor of the National Assembly to make input on the bill but that committee can't effectively stand down the bill. RMAFC contributions can be considered in enacting the bill but RMAFC can't stop the bill.

Honestly, the only issue I have with the bill is the plan to increase VAT to 10% and ultimately 15% by 2030. If that is removed and the VAT is kept at the current 7.5% into the forseable future, I strongly think that the bill is equitable, just and fair enough and it will bring out the best in the states.

That is a fact.

HarunaWest:
The same democracy empowered them..stop talking gibberish....Its like usurping CBN or FIRS heads roles and you ask them not to speak out. Instead of us to build strong institutions, we keep building strong men. Nawa to una.

Can CBN or FIRS threaten the executive and legislator??

Maybe you should read the post again.

MadamExcellency:
An Agency of the government (unelected bureaucrats) is issuing a warning to the Executive and Legislative arms of the government against changing policies they were elected to do.

What I understand from the audacity of this writeup is that Mallam wants to force this tax legislation to a constitutional review to enable the Northeast and Northwest to defeat the proposal with their 13 States thereby denying the proposal the required 2/3rd requirements for changes in the constitution.

He's not forcing anything. He's simply doing his job. What if after the bill is passed, a states approach the supreme Court to nullify the bill based on the points he raised?
He should be commended for calling attention to that part of the constitution and if his observations is wrong, he should be better guided

Wallade:
Oga, RMAFC doesn't make bill. It is a committee and at best constituted by the executive federal government of Nigeria.

A bill is a law once passed. A number of bills (laws) are in existence and sometimes they contradict each other but the ultimate law in Nigeria is the Constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria hence in such xases, the position of the Constitution takes pre-eminence.

The committee can join in the public debate on the bill on the floor of the National Assembly to make input on the bill but that committee can't effectively stand down the bill. RMAFC contributions can be considered in enacting the bill but RMAFC can't stop the bill.

Honestly, the only issue I have with the bill is the plan to increase VAT to 10% and ultimately 15% by 2030. If that is removed and the VAT is kept at the current 7.5% into the forseable future, I strongly think that the bill is equitable, just and fair enough and it will bring out the best in the states.

That is a fact.

And what happens if a bill conflicts with the constitution? Is it not as dead as a dodo?
Just as you have issues, so do others. There's no analysis or simulation you've done to establish that the bill so bring out the best in states other than the parasite argument which is one-sided at best

Frigga13:
They must hear word…

You can’t just wake and believe you can manipulate the system to suit you.



Nigerians are not all yoruba


Nigeria is not Lagos state or yorubaland … that sing … o’ yes to Tinubu and cartel

God bless Nigerians

. Nigeria is not north too

People should read and comprehend before committing. What the RMAFC are saying is :1-they are created and assigned task by the constitution. 2-,And the act of Parliament cannot surpass the constitution. 3- For the Vat reform to be legal, the constitution needed to be amended. Simple.
We should stop looking at things through our sentiment be it region, tribe or religion. We talk of building systems that works not people. Thats the only way the county will be great.

Atuero:
Aren't they empowered by the constitution to oversee that function? The man is speaking for his office not as a person.... at least, as they are empowered by the Government to do so, they should at least be consulted and carried along in the formation of the Bill.

That the executive arm of government appoints the judges doesn't make them above the ruling of the Judiciary if found guilty

The man probably doesn't understand certain functions of his office so he is attributing some powers to RMAFC that does not exist.

RMAFC does not determine the sharing percentages or review of the sharing ratio. RMAFC is simply a committee that can recommend reviews and suggestions on Revenue Mobilization to the executive Federal Government based on verifiable and empirical study and research.

The powers to review or change or enact bill or laws is with the National Assembly. The executive federal government can sponsor or push such or any bill to the National Assembly without recourse to the RMAFC.

The onus is on everyone, including RMAFC, who feels the need to impact the bill or make input on the bill to come to the national assembly on the date of the public discourse on the bill and make constructive contributions to ultimately arrive at the best bill to solve the challenge that must have informed the bill.

Simple.

Our Igbo leaders should support the north on this.

Wallade:
In your words:"this bill will not fly"; *modifications must be made... "

So when modifications are made, the bill can be passed. Does that mean the bill flew?

Nigeria is not Yoruba nation or Lagos. Where is your regional government bill you all were singing to high evens about?

Kukutente23:
And what happens if a bill conflicts with the constitution? Is it not as dead as a dodo?
Just as you have issues, so do others. There's no analysis or simulation you've done to establish that the bill so bring out the best in states other than the parasite argument which is one-sided at best

Did you read what I wrote? You have the same problem that most people have with those Tax Reform Bills - you don't read and study documents.

Go back to read it so you can see my position and the position of the law on cases where any bill is in contradiction with the Constitution of Nigeria. Moreover, it does not nullify the bill as far as it has become law.

Your arguments against the bills are not constructive, unfounded and just pessimistic.

Let me hear you present an empirical and substantial argument against the bill and then we can have a good discuss on it.

So they want to push for their position through their person in RMAFC?

How does anyone tell where the user of a phone sold in computer village lives?? We are all trying to pretend we can track consumption.

Most users of a product don't even collect receipts. People can buy a product inOshodi Lagos and use it in Sango Ogun state and no one can track or detect it

Bobloco:
“The Constitution designates RMAFC as the final authority on matters of revenue allocation,” the memorandum stated.

The Commission noted that “As such, no Act of Parliament, including the VAT Act, can infringe upon this constitutional responsibility. Any such attempt would constitute a violation of the Constitution.”

The RMAFC guy was drawing the attention of those working on the new tax bill to the fact that the RMAFC is the only body constitutionally empowered on matters of revenue sharing.

RMAFC guy need to get sacked and replaced immediately. He doesn't know what he's saying

Sheuns:
Nigeria is not Yoruba nation or Lagos. Where is your regional government bill you all were singing to high evens about?

You are simply a tribal biggot!

There is no point having a reasonable conversation with you because your deep hate for the Yoruba people has beclouded and eroded your sense of judgement so much that you are not sane anymore.

You are lost already, kindly find yourself first before discussing the challenges of Nigeria.

CodeTemplar:
The RMAFC man is obviously an ignoramus or tribal legend at best, parading as in intellectual. That it is called a consumption tax doesn't mean it is meant to serve the consumer or go to the consumer directly in anyway. It can still be collected at value addition location and reshared in Abuja, which is what Tinubu has done here. Let the ignoramus tell us who collects the VAT for good consumed outside Nigeria but within ECOWAS if the tax is for the consumer as they assume here.

It is a tax that should compensate whoever shoulders the burden of production or value-addition. It will be harsh to allow Lagos poach investors, create enabling environment, lost their land, culture, values to foreigners, suffer environmental degradation, provide supporting infrastructure like road, power, security and more, then you treat them equal with where the good are consumed because the textbook says VAT is a consumption (based) tax. It is collected from the consumer for consuming the value added unto the raw input but never meant for the consumer or her location.

It is like saying tolls collected in Kano for a road should go to Lagos or Rivers because the final destination of some of the passengers include Lagos and Rivers. The road is a service and is provided by Kano so why reward the destination of the passenger? What about passengers who end up in Ghana or Cameroon?

If we use this logic of the foolish and greedy RMAFC boss, states may be forced to collect it forcefully like that of a tolled road that serves interstate traffic and there will be chaos and rip offs because they will charge far higher than the flat rate FG is enforcing.

VAT is best managed centrally and redistributed to whoever is absorbing the impact of the value-addition within the value-addition chain accordingly. If nigeria must grow to become a hub where thing are manufactured and sold all over west Africa, this bill is good for rewarding value-adding states.

Good analogy. But the man did mention something cogent. An act of the national assembly can not override the constitution. The NAss needs to alter the constitution first to remove the powers of RMAFC.

Its amazing that everything is focused on VAT. What about personal income tax? This bill is removing the 20percent relief in the old law while also increasing the tax percentages. Thats col meaning people will pay more or those already paying will find ingenious ways to evade. They should make laws to increase tax compliance. Not overburden those already paying.

tollyboy5:
RMAFC guy need to get sacked and replaced immediately. He doesn't know what he's saying

Guy chill

This matter is beyond your intellectual capacity and capability

Why do supporters of apc and bat feel it is either thier way or the highway?

Events have shown that apc and bat are terrible administrators at the national level and 90% of thier major actions have served to further impoverish the masses. So there is nothing wrong if thier major proposals are subjected to proper scrutiny and debate given thier disastrous performances since 2015.

A tax reform that seeks to increase VAT to 15% overtime needs to be well debated.

A tax reform that deprives some states from collecting revenue from areas where they have comparative economic advantage needs to be properly analysed.

A tax reform that does not tackle corruption at the highest levels by linking income-assets and tax payment needs to be reworked.

RMAFC is a constitutionally empowered body that has a significant role to play in revenue allocation and distribution. Thier reaction shows that they were not fully carried along in the proposed tax reform bill or what was recommended at the committee is significantly different from what was submitted to NASS.

Ahmading:
People should read and comprehend before committing. What the RMAFC are saying is :1-they are created and assigned task by the constitution. 2-,And the act of Parliament cannot surpass the constitution. 3- For the Vat reform to be legal, the constitution needed to be amended. Simple.
We should stop looking at things through our sentiment be it region, tribe or religion. We talk of building systems that works not people. Thats the only way the county will be great.

Oga, RMAFC was created by the Constitution of Nigeria - Yes. What are the functions and mandate of RMAFC? Maybe you should read about that, the Constitution of Nigeria is a public document so avail yourself one to read.

The proposed bill, if passed into law, does not supersede the Constitution - Yes.

In case of contradictions, the Constitution's position on the item of contradictions takes pre-eminence - Yes.

So RMAFC is just trying to create a confussion that does not exist. RMAFC reports to the Federal Executive Government of Nigeria and should stick to it's responsibilities and stop trying to order or control or command its boss especially because it's duty and mandate is ultimately advisory based on empirical and verifiable recommendations and justifications as a result of research and studies. RMAFC is not an executing body or law.

CodeTemplar:
I support his sack for not knowing how consumption tax is managed or its purpose. If it is for the consumer, who collects the tax for goods consumed beyond the shores of Nigeria?
How is the value-addition location rewarded for their efforts to poach investors, lost their land, culture, and values to foreigners? How do they get rewarded for production related expenses like order maintaining task forces(LAWMA and the likes), power, security, and infrastructure?

Everything is not about tribe and ethnicity bro. Logic should prevail atimes and here is one of such case. Even the money the Kano people are using to buy the final goods comes largely from the south so giving them a cut of what they spend is just rewarding them for buying local goods and not a sensible move. If they decide to ditch local goods not produced by their states, can they transport it through lagos by road and lagos will not toll them or can they provide the Forex?

Na lie .

The North contribute over 40% to the economy via Agriculture alone. How will you say the money that is spent in the North all came from the South?

This your thinking and propaganda is the reason why the North will never support this Yoruba tax bill.

I quite agree with you, that vat as a consumption tax is meant to reward areas engaged in production or value addition. But that is not it's singular purpose. If so, then why is the Bill proposing the abolish vat on food, medicine and eduction etc; where will those states engaged in such activities get revenues to match states like Lagos that are services driven? You will agree that contribution of agriculture to gdp is higher than oil our major revenue earner.

You will also agree, that states like Lagos get vat accruals from places like airports, ports and headquarter-invoiced services by companies like mtn. These accruals were due to Federal collective decision/investment to site those facilities in Lagos. It's not Abia state's fault for example that they don't have an International airport like MMIA, neither is Mtn providing all it's services in Lagos.
So the proposed bill is not completely bad, but gray areas that appear to confer undue advantage to states like Lagos should be streamlined. So the submission by RMAFC is quite timely and inorder. After all nothing is made final yet.

CodeTemplar:
The RMAFC man is obviously an ignoramus or tribal legend at best, parading as in intellectual. That it is called a consumption tax doesn't mean it is meant to serve the consumer or go to the consumer directly in anyway. It can still be collected at value addition location and reshared in Abuja, which is what Tinubu has done here. Let the ignoramus tell us who collects the VAT for good consumed outside Nigeria but within ECOWAS if the tax is for the consumer as they assume here.

It is a tax that should compensate whoever shoulders the burden of production or value-addition. It will be harsh to allow Lagos poach investors, create enabling environment, lost their land, culture, values to foreigners, suffer environmental degradation, provide supporting infrastructure like road, power, security and more, then you treat them equal with where the good are consumed because the textbook says VAT is a consumption (based) tax. It is collected from the consumer for consuming the value added unto the raw input but never meant for the consumer or her location.

It is like saying tolls collected in Kano for a road should go to Lagos or Rivers because the final destination of some of the passengers include Lagos and Rivers. The road is a service and is provided by Kano so why reward the destination of the passenger? What about passengers who end up in Ghana or Cameroon?

If we use this logic of the foolish and greedy RMAFC boss, states may be forced to collect it forcefully like that of a tolled road that serves interstate traffic and there will be chaos and rip offs because they will charge far higher than the flat rate FG is enforcing.

VAT is best managed centrally and redistributed to whoever is absorbing the impact of the value-addition within the value-addition chain accordingly. If nigeria must grow to become a hub where thing are manufactured and sold all over west Africa, this bill is good for rewarding value-adding states.

Wallade:
Did you read what I wrote? You have the same problem that most people have with those Tax Reform Bills - you don't read and study documents.

Go back to read it so you can see my position and the position of the law on cases where any bill is in contradiction with the Constitution of Nigeria. Moreover, it does not nullify the bill as far as it has become law.

Your arguments against the bills are not constructive, unfounded and just pessimistic.

Let me hear you present an empirical and substantial argument against the bill and then we can have a good discuss on it.

You wrote wrong
Any bill that's inconsistent with the constitution is null and void.
Even if it was passed unanimously by birth houses. Don't worry about what I think of the bill
We're discussing RMAFC's observation not mine

Hussein035:
You will realize that the chairman of the RMAFC is an hausa man. They don't want to contribute again to the country they only want bigger FAAC and since their senators and governors are complaining that bill must be passed

Criminals, oshofree people should go and start thinking before contesting for positions especially all our poverty striking states

Which state are you from? Except you are from PH, Lagos, Delta or Akwaibom. None of the other States in the South beat any State in the North. Mention your state make we disgraced you here

Tinubu would realize that he should have sacked this man and replaced him with a yoruba man before adopting this VAT reform. Unexpected hindrance to the plan. But I guess Tinubu will still find a way to maneuver this bill into law.

Wallade:
The man probably doesn't understand certain functions of his office so he is attributing some powers to RMAFC that does not exist.

RMAFC does not determine the sharing percentages or review of the sharing ratio. RMAFC is simply a committee that can recommend reviews and suggestions on Revenue Mobilization to the executive Federal Government based on verifiable and empirical study and research.

The powers to review or change or enact bill or laws is with the National Assembly. The executive federal government can sponsor or push such or any bill to the National Assembly without recourse to the RMAFC.

The onus is on everyone, including RMAFC, who feels the need to impact the bill or make input on the bill to come to the national assembly on the date of the public discourse on the bill and make constructive contributions to ultimately arrive at the best bill to solve the challenge that must have informed the bill.

Simple.

Read section 162 clearly without bias to see what RMAFC does. You're just blowing air out of ignorance

(1) The Federation shall maintain a special accoun...

Section 162 of the Constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria
(1) The Federation shall maintain a special account to be called "the Federation Account" into which shall be paid all revenues collected by the Government of the Federation, except the proceeds from the personal income tax of the personnel of the armed forces of the Federation, the Nigeria Police Force, the Ministry or department of government charged with responsibility for Foreign Affairs and the residents of the Federal Capital Territory, Abuja.

(2) The President, upon the receipt of advice from the Revenue Mobilisation Allocation and Fiscal Commission, shall table before the National Assembly proposals for revenue allocation from the Federation Account, and in determining the formula, the National Assembly shall take into account, the allocation principles especially those of population, equality of States, internal revenue generation, land mass, terrain as well as population density;


Provided that the principle of derivation shall be constantly reflected in any approved formula as being not less than thirteen per cent of the revenue accruing to the Federation Account directly from any natural resources.

Kukutente23:
You wrote wrong
Any bill that's inconsistent with the constitution is null and void.
Even if it was passed unanimously by birth houses. Don't worry about what I think of the bill
We're discussing RMAFC's observation not mine

Seeing your statement in bold letters, I can conclude that you know nothing about laws and how laws are operated.

Do you even know the role of the judiciary when there are conflicting items in the law? I guess you don't and the most ridiculous assessment of you is that you seem not to care to know.

Anyway, that is your challenge, not mine.

Have a great day layman.

Wallade:
Seeing your statement in bold letters, I can conclude that you know nothing about laws and how laws are operated.

Do you even know the role of the judiciary when there are conflicting items in the law? I guess you don't and the most ridiculous assessment of you is that you seem not to care to know.

Anyway, that is your challenge, not mine.

Have a great day layman.

You're the ignorant one
It is clearly spelt or in the constitution that any bill inconsistent with the constitution is null and void to the extent of the inconsistency. RMAFC's observation is very correct. You guys act like sycophants instead of reading to understand your country and its laws

Kukutente23:
Read section 162 clearly without bias to see what RMAFC does. You're just blowing air out of ignorance

I read the section 162 especially the part you made the letters bold and the primary observation that I can see there is that the role of RMAFC is advisory.

To the best of my knowledge, Advise is not mandatory on the person advised especially when you are advising your boss - in this case,
RMAFC reports to the Executive Federal Government of Nigeria so that is the boss in the relationship between RMAFC and the Federal Government.

Is that contrary to what I have been saying earlier?

Bobloco:
Guy chill

This matter is beyond your intellectual capacity and capability

It not beyond my mental capacity that my state produce the highest vat and get little or nothing for it

Bobloco:
RMAFC, in a comprehensive nine-page memorandum signed by its chairman, Mohammed Bello Shebi, rejected the principle of derivation over the exisitng system of VAT pooling among other legal, constitutional, and technical objections to the proposed legislation.

https://tribuneonlineng.com/tax-reform-bills-rmafc-opposes-proposed-vat-sharing-formula/amp/

Whether or not Northern politicians want it, these Tax Reforms bill must pass. When they eventually get in, they will reverse it, we know that.

Thankfully others are schooling this intellectually lazy quota system beneficiary on what he should already know.

Moving forward, every part of the country must take less from a central pot and work doubly hard to get more by themselves.

Kukutente23:
You're the ignorant one
It is clearly spelt or in the constitution that any bill inconsistent with the constitution is null and void to the extent of the inconsistency. RMAFC's observation is very correct. You guys act like sycophants instead of reading to understand your country and its laws

Yea

If that is true then many existing bills (laws) should not exist or be "null and void" simply because they have one or few items at variance or in conflict with the Constitution.

You are funny. If you are a lawyer, then I wonder what your views will be.

Anyway, na you sabi. Enjoy your day, I have other things to do.

CodeTemplar:
The RMAFC man is obviously an ignoramus or tribal legend at best, parading as in intellectual. That it is called a consumption tax doesn't mean it is meant to serve the consumer or go to the consumer directly in anyway. It can still be collected at value addition location and reshared in Abuja, which is what Tinubu has done here. Let the ignoramus tell us who collects the VAT for good consumed outside Nigeria but within ECOWAS if the tax is for the consumer as they assume here.

It is a tax that should compensate whoever shoulders the burden of production or value-addition. It will be harsh to allow Lagos poach investors, create enabling environment, lost their land, culture, values to foreigners, suffer environmental degradation, provide supporting infrastructure like road, power, security and more, then you treat them equal with where the good are consumed because the textbook says VAT is a consumption (based) tax. It is collected from the consumer for consuming the value added unto the raw input but never meant for the consumer or her location.

It is like saying tolls collected in Kano for a road should go to Lagos or Rivers because the final destination of some of the passengers include Lagos and Rivers. The road is a service and is provided by Kano so why reward the destination of the passenger? What about passengers who end up in Ghana or Cameroon?

If we use this logic of the foolish and greedy RMAFC boss, states may be forced to collect it forcefully like that of a tolled road that serves interstate traffic and there will be chaos and rip offs because they will charge far higher than the flat rate FG is enforcing.

VAT is best managed centrally and redistributed to whoever is absorbing the impact of the value-addition within the value-addition chain accordingly. If nigeria must grow to become a hub where thing are manufactured and sold all over west Africa, this bill is good for rewarding value-adding states.

You go explain tire