₦airaland Forum

Baldwretch:
The Jews entered the Promised Land through warfare and would almost certainly expand by the same act. It seems logical then to infer that God's tool of propagating the Torah and himself (by implication) is a very effective strategy at the time - warfare. Conversion happens by force, not by some flowery words. Preaching to conquered territories would come naturally. They wouldn't have to be instructed to do it. After all, the nation that propagates the ideas of its God and its religion is not the one that is commanded by its holy books to do so, but the one that succeeds quite well in the act of warfare. That should be quite obvious.

Fighting wars in ancient times is almost inevitable. There would always be reasons to fight. And the more successful you are in the battlefield, the more likely you are to proselytize people and get nations to your God. God already promised and guaranteed victory to the Jewish nations if they obeyed his laws, so it is not true at all that Moses was sent to only Israel and not to the world at large. If God was going to give them a Land through wars, he would almost certainly keep them and expand their territories through the same act. It seems it's only a matter of time before subjugated nations and people worship the one true God even though they would not willingly worship initially.

God does not have to spell out an obvious truth (in the Torah) on how he was going to use the Jews to draw mankind to himself after giving the Law. If the Jews expanded and conquered territories, wouldn't people be forced to accept their religion?

The point I am making is that Muhammad's claim that he Torah was sent through Moses for the benefit of the Jews is gross error. The Torah is supposed to benefit all of mankind for all ages.

Mohammed and his prophethood were errors in each and all the categories.

Baldwretch:
If God had to come down in his persona and in his form, which, by the way, never happened again, to instruct and to give his laws, then you should know that this is not child's play. If God had to tarry with Moses on the mountain for 40 days and for another 40 days instructing him, you should be aware at this point that God means business. In fact, if God had to yank a nation from another nation, one of the most powerful of its time through warfare, and then take this nation into another territory by warfare, and then expand the said nation by fighting wars, it should be clear at this point that these killings are not done for sports. He really wants mankind to know him through the channel he has instituted - which is physical power. There is no overthinking this with God.

Physical power has its limit but there is so much it can accomplish too. You can ask Esther who chronicled an event in which she and other Jewish exiles were in real danger of extermination. You can ask her how vast the empire in question spans - how big of a territory provinces stretching from India to Ethiopia is, Est. 1: 1. Or, you could ask Daniel what his eyes saw in Babylon when all nations and people under the different Babylonian monarchs worshiped and bow down to the Babylonian gods on the threat of death. Or, you could ask the northern Kingdom (Israel, who got displaced by Assyria) what it feels like to have foreigners of mixed nationalities settle in your own territory. There is just so much physical power can accomplish in the propagation of the Torah.

God did everything He did just to have a specimen in His lab. He had a well defined territory in mind when He was doing that, and He never allowed Israel to go beyond that predefined territory. He never wanted to propagate the Torah through wars. The covenant that the Torah represents wasn't perfect. God had something perfect in mind for the whole world. Israel remained under the schoolmaster of the Torah until the perfect came, and then God brought in all other nations to participate. There's no single verse of scripture where God ever instructed Israel to take over the whole world, but Christ gave us a command to preach the Gospel to all nations.

I

magine what God said of Nebuchadnezzar through the prophet Jeremiah and Daniel were true of the Jewish state that he has put everything, even the wild animals, under Nebuchadnessar's control. Jeremiah 27:6-7, Daniel 4 (NLT). Lol! If that was the case and Christ never came, then you and I would have been Judaic professors by fire or by force. Lol.

How would that have happened even when Babylonia itself was never Judahic?

Certainly, the Torah would have snowballed into something else, something mighty, something powerful, something unhinged, but that is not the case.

It cannot be the case because that wasn't God's plan. Jesus Christ is called "The lamb slain from the foundation of the world" for a reason.

Now, you are confusing two distinct commands. The Jews were given two commands as it pertains to war in Deuteronomy 20. One was supposed to be time-bound because it applied to the territory they would displace and occupy, i.e Canaan. The other command applies to distant nation far off from Canaan they would have to wage war against over time. These are separate commands.

Those commands were just rules of war. There was no command for them to proselyte any nation.

In fact, the chapter starts off by saying: When you go out to fight your enemies and you face....

and then it instructs the people and priest on what is reuired of them in the process. One verse I'd like to draw your attention to is chpater 15 and onwards. it reads

15 But these instructions apply only to
distant towns, not to the towns of
nations nearby.

16"As for the towns of the nations the
LORD your God is giving you as a
special possession, destroy every living
thing in them.

17You must completely destroy the
Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites,
Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites, just
as the LORD your God has commanded
you.

Yeah, those were the territories already predefined. The Israelites knew their boundaries. God already told Abraham the dimensions of the territory He was giving his descendants.

This is clear enough.

Completely negates your position. Why would God give instructions only for nations nearby which are within the predefined territory God already showed to Abraham, and not include far away nations if He had any mind of the Torah travelling all over the world?

The outpouring of the Spirit, I would like to think, is a medium of last resort. Although I would have you ponder the fact that God had this all figured out back in eternity, but then, yes, we cannot compartmentalize God, so I partially agree with your take. It's just like arguing on what would happen and the sequence of events that would follow if Adam had not sinned.

The outpouring of the Spirit isn't a last resort. It was part of the program originally.

1. There's a lamb slain from the foundation of the world - Revelation 13:8

2. There was a promise of one Seed, not seeds to Abraham, through whom the whole world will be blessed.

3.. David was constantly reminded that a descendant of his will be a forever King.

4. God continued to tell the Israelites that the Gentiles would come to 'His Light' while He makes them jealous.

The outpouring of the Spirit was not a last resort at all.

This is what really happened:

1. God already knew that man would fail, so He prepared a remedy before man failed. Right from the foundation of the world, Christ was already in the picture.

2. To actualise the reconciliation of all things, God had to take the world through a process:

a. Take a role model nation to Himself.

b. Through the nation, He would reveal Himself and give man the opportunity to.know about God's personality.

C. Teach man about the consequences of sin and that man cannot save himself.

d. Make man see that blood is necessary for the propitiation of sin.

e. Make man see that the blood of animals is not sufficient to propitiate sins.

f. Prepare the hearts of men to see the need for a Saviour.

3. Introduce the Saviour into the world at a time the world has learnt one language for international communication. This provides for easy communication to propagate the Good News of God's merciful intervention in a sinful world.

4. Start the global reconciliation movement with the news of an eternal sacrifice for sin.

5. Gather all who subscribe to cleansing, all through the ages.

6. Create a new earth for them.

7. Eliminate sin and Satan forever.

8. Enjoy everlasting fellowship with man forever as it was in the beginning.

The Torah was introduced because of sins. To teach man how sinful sin really is. It was just a schoolmaster to teach Israel until the Lord came. Now, the Lord has come, and He is now the Covenant of the nations. In Him (not in the Torah) shall the Gentiles trust.

FxMasterz:
God did everything He did just to have a specimen in His lab. He had a well defined territory in mind when He was doing that, and He never allowed Israel to go beyond that predefined territory. He never wanted to propagate the Torah through wars. The covenant that the Torah represents wasn't perfect. God had something perfect in mind for the whole world. Israel remained under the schoolmaster of the Torah until the perfect came, and then God brought in all other nations to participate. There's no single verse of scripture where God ever instructed Israel to take over the whole world, but Christ gave us a command to preach the Gospel to all nations.

I
How would that have happened even when Babylonia itself was never Judahic?


It cannot be the case because that wasn't God's plan. Jesus Christ is called "The lamb slain from the foundation of the world" for a reason.


Those commands were just rules of war. There was no command for them to proselyte any nation.


Yeah, those were the territories already predefined. The Israelites knew their boundaries. God already told Abraham the dimensions of the territory He was giving his descendants.


Completely negates your position. Why would God give instructions only for nations nearby which are within the predefined territory God already showed to Abraham, and not include far away nations if He had any mind of the Torah travelling all over the world?



The outpouring of the Spirit isn't a last resort. It was part of the program originally.

1. There's a lamb slain from the foundation of the world - Revelation 13:8

2. There was a promise of one Seed, not seeds to Abraham, through whom the whole world will be blessed.

3.. David was constantly reminded that a descendant of his will be a forever King.

4. God continued to tell the Israelites that the Gentiles would come to 'His Light' while He makes them jealous.

The outpouring of the Spirit was not a last resort at all.

This is what really happened:

1. God already knew that man would fail, so He prepared a remedy before man failed. Right from the foundation of the world, Christ was already in the picture.

2. To actualise the reconciliation of all things, God had to take the world through a process:

a. Take a role model nation to Himself.

b. Through the nation, He would reveal Himself and give man the opportunity to.know about God's personality.

C. Teach man about the consequences of sin and that man cannot save himself.

d. Make man see that blood is necessary for the propitiation of sin.

e. Make man see that the blood of animals is not sufficient to propitiate sins.

f. Prepare the hearts of men to see the need for a Saviour.

3. Introduce the Saviour into the world at a time the world has learnt one language for international communication. This provides for easy communication to propagate the Good News of God's merciful intervention in a sinful world.

4. Start the global reconciliation movement with the news of an eternal sacrifice for sin.

5. Gather all who subscribe to cleansing, all through the ages.

6. Create a new earth for them.

7. Eliminate sin and Satan forever.

8. Enjoy everlasting fellowship with man forever as it was in the beginning.

The Torah was introduced because of sins. To teach man how sinful sin really is. It was just a schoolmaster to teach Israel until the Lord came. Now, the Lord has come, and He is now the Covenant of the nations. In Him (not in the Torah) shall the Gentiles trust.

FxMasterz, we are now in a sacred intersection. The first road leading east takes you to a small village called Divine Predestination and/or Divine fore-ordination; the other road leading westwards leads to a tiny village called Human responsibility. It would seem like if you go eastwards then the road leading to the west eludes you. The same can be said of the other road. Now, this is a subject that has puzzled the saints and philisophers and I would not attempt to reconcile them because like they, you and I simply do not know much about the subject.
It seems to me like a great paradox to reconcile them both, but I would like to think that they are both true. God has predestined at least some things - like the lamb slain from the foundation of the world - and yet, and yet, man is totally responsible especially for what has been made clear unto him.

One thunders God's secret will while the other talks of his revealed will. You have to understand that the Torah is not a ceremonial symbol of do's and don't s; it is a symbol of our accountability and responsibility to God for all time - which God has, time and time again, made clear that obedience to these laws is a part of our obligation to him. As Christians, we still obey the Torah, though in a very limited sense. Can we then say that because God has made provisions for our sins back in eternity, we are not supposed to follow the path he has made plain for all time? Are we supposed to peep and peer into God's hidden counsel?

God's revealed will should be the guiding principle of the believer, not his secret will. God revealed a path as the path we should follow, it would be unwise then to assume that God IS NOT SUPPOSED TO continue with the path he has chosen and instituted because of our nasty
proclivity to stray, or that because Christ has already been made a propitiation for our sins from the foundation of the world - that he is then supposed to discard what he started with, if in time, he thinks otherwise.

That is what your rebuttals amount to. Is God supposed to do anything at all? If you answer no, then you just agreed with me that the Torah is supposed to be a guide for all mankind for all ages. Is God supposed (special emphasis on "suppose" to do away with the Torah
because men are unable to obey all its requirements for all time? Is God supposed to do away with the Torah because Christ has been slain from the foundation of the world? Is he supposed to create man, help man, deliver man or do anything at all for his creatures? No, of course not. God is under no obligations to his creatures. He owes no one. God is not supposed to do anything he has not already done. He is absolutely free. Look at the title of my post again, please.

My post is looking at the subject with a magnifying glass called God's revealed will in time, not God's secret will with the benefit of hindsight. Just as he did not have to forgive Adam, God did not have to slay or even send the slain lamb (who was slain from the foundation of the world) - to propitiate for man's sins. If you say the Torah is not supposed to be the guide for all of mankind for all ages because of
man's dire inability to keep it, then I would respectfully disagree because the fault is man's, not the Torah. The blame is on you, not on the Torah or on God who gave it. The law, as the apostle puts it, is just and good and fair.

It is supposed to be a guide, but turns out, it is not - because of God's great mercy. Is God supposed to show mercy?

The only grounds one can have to claim that the Torah is not supposed to be a guide is if there is a problem with the Torah itself. There is none, however.

If the Jews had obeyed God's law to a certain satisfactory or manageable degree, maybe, just maybe, God might give free rein for the system he's put in place to continue. In that sense, it was supposed to continue as a guide not just for the Jews, but for all of mankind. We simply don't know how much the axle of God's will would turn and should not exactly assume because it turned out differently in time - that God must necessarily do away with the Torah because of men's inabilities.

The Muslims whom the post is addressed to do not believe these. I addressed them, not the Christians who believe in man's fallen nature.

And again, I am talking as a human who has been made responsible by the Law and with a very deep belief in the sovereignty of God. Our God, as the Psalmist said, is in the Heavens and he does as he pleases. If God made a two part movie. Is he supposed to release one or both parts?

We can only say as puny creatures with some level of confidence that what is first in line is supposed to continue, not what came after it. The post is meant to take a jab at Muhammad who claimed that he is the end of the Torah, not to glorify the Torah above Christ's glorious sacrifice.

That being said, Israel were not forbidden from trespassing a predefined territory; they were supposed to conquer anything conquerable and dominate the world. The Bible makes it clear - I think in the book of Deuteronomy - that if the Israelite obey his commands and do what is pleasing before him, that, NLT, wherever they step their foot on becomes a land for them. Do you know the implication of this promise?

The territory becomes theirs!

The land given to Abraham was as far as his eyes could see. It wasn't meant to be taken literally. God was making it clear to Abraham that his kingdom would be established (on earth) through his progeny. And as you know, the kingdom of God is a kingdom without borders! Sometimes the Jewish people trespassed and occupied territories beyond Dan in the north.

If they were forbidden from crossing a predefined limits, then the Torah should never have permitted wars in the first place. It should only have been for self-defense. David, Solomon, Saul and all the other kings who fought offensive wars, not defensive wars, should never have gotten a response from Yahweh when they inquired of him before they went ahead, and they should never have succeeded with their tiny army did fight. God Almighty who is mighty, lol, gave men who obeyed him and whom he loved victory, great victory when they fought offensive wars in the past.

In fact, God often used wars and the victory (he gives to the victors) to stir up people, events, and things as was the case of Saul and David who got similar praises from Jewish women - Saul has killed his thousands and David his ten thousands. It would be silly, very silly, very, very silly to say that ancient wars do not further or serve to further the great and noble purposes of the divine will. They absolutely do!

Reason dictates that when limits for a thing, an event, or whatever is intended by those higher up, then prohibitive commands should be made. If God wanted to contain the Israelite, he would have said it.

God confirmed his promises (made hundreds of years earlier) to give a bunch of people landed property through warfare and you think he never wanted distant nations to feel their way to him through those he has chosen to give victory. WOW! You should observe that before
things deteriorated badly in the book of Kings, that godly kings were, on average, successful when they encroached into other nation's lands and soundly defeated them.

My post is supposed to be an attack on the Islamic faith especially Muhammad who falsely claimed that the Torah is an Israelite thing, and not worldwide.

Ciao! Bye!

Baldwretch:
FxMasterz, we are now in a sacred intersection. The first road leading east takes you to a small village called Divine Predestination and/or Divine fore-ordination; the other road leading westwards leads to a tiny village called Human responsibility. It would seem like if you go eastwards then the road leading to the west eludes you. The same can be said of the other road. Now, this is a subject that has puzzled the saints and philisophers and I would not attempt to reconcile them because like they, you and I simply do not know much about the subject.
It seems to me like a great paradox to reconcile them both, but I would like to think that they are both true. God has predestined at least some things - like the lamb slain from the foundation of the world - and yet, and yet, man is totally responsible especially for what has been made clear unto him.

One thunders God's secret will while the other talks of his revealed will. You have to understand that the Torah is not a ceremonial symbol of do's and don't s; it is a symbol of our accountability and responsibility to God for all time - which God has, time and time again, made clear that obedience to these laws is a part of our obligation to him. As Christians, we still obey the Torah, though in a very limited sense. Can we then say that because God has made provisions for our sins back in eternity, we are not supposed to follow the path he has made plain for all time? Are we supposed to peep and peer into God's hidden counsel?

God's revealed will should be the guiding principle of the believer, not his secret will. God revealed a path as the path we should follow, it would be unwise then to assume that God IS NOT SUPPOSED TO continue with the path he has chosen and instituted because of our nasty
proclivity to stray, or that because Christ has already been made a propitiation for our sins from the foundation of the world - that he is then supposed to discard what he started with, if in time, he thinks otherwise.

That is what your rebuttals amount to. Is God supposed to do anything at all? If you answer no, then you just agreed with me that the Torah is supposed to be a guide for all mankind for all ages. Is God supposed (special emphasis on "suppose" to do away with the Torah
because men are unable to obey all its requirements for all time? Is God supposed to do away with the Torah because Christ has been slain from the foundation of the world? Is he supposed to create man, help man, deliver man or do anything at all for his creatures? No, of course not. God is under no obligations to his creatures. He owes no one. God is not supposed to do anything he has not already done. He is absolutely free. Look at the title of my post again, please.

My post is looking at the subject with a magnifying glass called God's revealed will in time, not God's secret will with the benefit of hindsight. Just as he did not have to forgive Adam, God did not have to slay or even send the slain lamb (who was slain from the foundation of the world) - to propitiate for man's sins. If you say the Torah is not supposed to be the guide for all of mankind for all ages because of
man's dire inability to keep it, then I would respectfully disagree because the fault is man's, not the Torah. The blame is on you, not on the Torah or on God who gave it. The law, as the apostle puts it, is just and good and fair.

It is supposed to be a guide, but turns out, it is not - because of God's great mercy. Is God supposed to show mercy?

The only grounds one can have to claim that the Torah is not supposed to be a guide is if there is a problem with the Torah itself. There is none, however.

If the Jews had obeyed God's law to a certain satisfactory or manageable degree, maybe, just maybe, God might give free rein for the system he's put in place to continue. In that sense, it was supposed to continue as a guide not just for the Jews, but for all of mankind. We simply don't know how much the axle of God's will would turn and should not exactly assume because it turned out differently in time - that God must necessarily do away with the Torah because of men's inabilities.

The Muslims whom the post is addressed to do not believe these. I addressed them, not the Christians who believe in man's fallen nature.

And again, I am talking as a human who has been made responsible by the Law and with a very deep belief in the sovereignty of God. Our God, as the Psalmist said, is in the Heavens and he does as he pleases. If God made a two part movie. Is he supposed to release one or both parts?

We can only say as puny creatures with some level of confidence that what is first in line is supposed to continue, not what came after it. The post is meant to take a jab at Muhammad who claimed that he is the end of the Torah, not to glorify the Torah above Christ's glorious sacrifice.

That being said, Israel were not forbidden from trespassing a predefined territory; they were supposed to conquer anything conquerable and dominate the world. The Bible makes it clear - I think in the book of Deuteronomy - that if the Israelite obey his commands and do what is pleasing before him, that, NLT, wherever they step their foot on becomes a land for them. Do you know the implication of this promise?

The territory becomes theirs!

The land given to Abraham was as far as his eyes could see. It wasn't meant to be taken literally. God was making it clear to Abraham that his kingdom would be established (on earth) through his progeny. And as you know, the kingdom of God is a kingdom without borders! Sometimes the Jewish people trespassed and occupied territories beyond Dan in the north.

If they were forbidden from crossing a predefined limits, then the Torah should never have permitted wars in the first place. It should only have been for self-defense. David, Solomon, Saul and all the other kings who fought offensive wars, not defensive wars, should never have gotten a response from Yahweh when they inquired of him before they went ahead, and they should never have succeeded with their tiny army did fight. God Almighty who is mighty, lol, gave men who obeyed him and whom he loved victory, great victory when they fought offensive wars in the past.

In fact, God often used wars and the victory (he gives to the victors) to stir up people, events, and things as was the case of Saul and David who got similar praises from Jewish women - Saul has killed his thousands and David his ten thousands. It would be silly, very silly, very, very silly to say that ancient wars do not further or serve to further the great and noble purposes of the divine will. They absolutely do!

Reason dictates that when limits for a thing, an event, or whatever is intended by those higher up, then prohibitive commands should be made. If God wanted to contain the Israelite, he would have said it.

God confirmed his promises (made hundreds of years earlier) to give a bunch of people landed property through warfare and you think he never wanted distant nations to feel their way to him through those he has chosen to give victory. WOW! You should observe that before
things deteriorated badly in the book of Kings, that godly kings were, on average, successful when they encroached into other nation's lands and soundly defeated them.

My post is supposed to be an attack on the Islamic faith especially Muhammad who falsely claimed that the Torah is an Israelite thing, and not worldwide.

Ciao! Bye!

My brother, the Torah is indeed an Israelite thing. This isn't complicated at all. My major stand actually is not to explain the role of the Torah in God's scheme of things but rather to let you know that God didn't propagate the Torah by war.

The Islamist have such a myopic narrative because they can't see the big picture of what God was doing when He instituted the Torah of old. As I said in IT terms, the Torah was a Beta, a shadow. The real Image is Jesus, not Mohammed.

Yeah, God can discard what He started if that thing has fulfilled its purpose. The Torah has fulfilled its purpose. We do not need to obey God's law anymore. As Christians, we live out God's law, not observing to obey it. The Holt Spirit lives out the law in us through our Lord Jesus Christ. Why, because we have it written in our hearts.

Right from the start of the diving restoration program, God wanted to continue relating with man as a spirit bring, not as a physical being. That was his He related with Adam before Adam fell. The law cannot produce that spiritual relationship between God and man, it was a carnal law. The lamb slain from the foundation of the world was the long term project of God Kickstarter by the animal lambs slain in Israel. Jesus came on the scene in John 4 and said "...the hour is coming that neither on this mountain or in Jerusalem will anyone need to give carnal worship to the Father. He that must worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth. For the Father seeks such to worship Him. This was the grand picture of all that Moses started. All roads lead to the lamb that was slain. Slain from the foundation of the world. God didn't forget the slain lamb when He was instituting the Torah. The Torah was part of the process. It was not an end in itself.

It follows the line of the process I outlined in my previous post. It's not a matter of revealed will or hidden will. It's a matter of the progressive unveiling of the Divine plan.

Hey, how are wars serving the Grand will today? If ancient wars serve the purpose of the divine will, why did it stop? Did God finally realize that it doesn't work or what? There are many problems with your position. God does not need man's might or swords to make His will happen!

Can you then tell us how many nations adopted the Torah by such wars? Did the wars fail and God now realized it was not a potent method for propagating His will? You err my brother!

FxMasterz:
My brother, the Torah is indeed an Israelite thing. This isn't complicated at all. My major stand actually is not to explain the role of the Torah in God's scheme of things but rather to let you know that God didn't propagate the Torah by war.

The Islamist have such a myopic narrative because they can't see the big picture of what God was doing when He instituted the Torah of old. As I said in IT terms, the Torah was a Beta, a shadow. The real Image is Jesus, not Mohammed.

Yeah, God can discard what He started if that thing has fulfilled its purpose. The Torah has fulfilled its purpose. We do not need to obey God's law anymore. As Christians, we live out God's law, not observing to obey it. The Holt Spirit lives out the law in us through our Lord Jesus Christ. Why, because we have it written in our hearts.

Right from the start of the diving restoration program, God wanted to continue relating with man as a spirit bring, not as a physical being. That was his He related with Adam before Adam fell. The law cannot produce that spiritual relationship between God and man, it was a carnal law. The lamb slain from the foundation of the world was the long term project of God Kickstarter by the animal lambs slain in Israel. Jesus came on the scene in John 4 and said "...the hour is coming that neither on this mountain or in Jerusalem will anyone need to give carnal worship to the Father. He that must worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth. For the Father seeks such to worship Him. This was the grand picture of all that Moses started. All roads lead to the lamb that was slain. Slain from the foundation of the world. God didn't forget the slain lamb when He was instituting the Torah. The Torah was part of the process. It was not an end in itself.

It follows the line of the process I outlined in my previous post. It's not a matter of revealed will or hidden will. It's a matter of the progressive unveiling of the Divine plan.

Hey, how are wars serving the Grand will today? If ancient wars serve the purpose of the divine will, why did it stop? Did God finally realize that it doesn't work or what? There are many problems with your position. God does not need man's might or swords to make His will happen!

Can you then tell us how many nations adopted the Torah by such wars? Did the wars fail and God now realized it was not a potent method for propagating His will? You err my brother!

If I tell you the truth, you will kill me. And if I give you advice, you wouldn't listen to me anyway. Jer. 38:15.

Baldwretch:
If I tell you the truth, you will kill me. And if I give you advice, you wouldn't listen to me anyway. Jer. 38:15.

Seems you have reached an impasse with Fxmasterz as regards to whether the Torah was spread through war or not! I see he kept mentioning the wars in Islam as if Muslims massacred any of his families!