₦airaland Forum

I am writing about this topic not only because of my interaction with the Nairalander @MrPresident1, but because of my observations on Nairaland and the lived experiences of my contacts with people who profess to be Christians, especially the Pentecostal varieties.
I have attached a screenshot of our conversation, and you will notice how he immediately resorted to insults and abuses. This is someone who goes by the title of “born again,” has more than 200 topics on the Rapture, and is quick to quote Bible verses.

Now to the crux of the matter: does going to church, being born again, or religion in general lead to any change in life in a positive direction? Are the spiritual encounters we experience in our churches mere emotional manipulations with no tangible positive life changes?

This is not only related to this individual alone; I see lots of Bible-touting pastors resort to insults and curses when challenged or countered. I am proud to say I have never been to any church, read the Bible for more than two years now, and will never do so in the future.
Believe me when I tell you these people will speak in tongues in the morning and physically fight and curse you in the evening. I am unchurched, and I am well-behaved and more in control of my emotions than over 99% of these people.
Are the change of life experiences or being born again a big scam?

That is a response of a supposed christian who is waiting for the most idiotic concept in the world " the Rapture"

Nnamdipapa:
↪Now to the crux of the matter: does going to church, being born again, or religion in general lead to any change in life in a positive direction?
↪Are the spiritual encounters we experience in our churches mere emotional manipulations with no tangible positive life changes?
↪This is not only related to this individual alone; I see lots of Bible-touting pastors resort to insults and curses when challenged or countered. I am proud to say I have never been to any church, read the Bible for more than two years now, and will never do so in the future.
Believe me when I tell you these people will speak in tongues in the morning and physically fight and curse you in the evening. I am unchurched, and I am well-behaved and more in control of my emotions than over 99% of these people. Are the change of life experiences or being born again a big scam?

brb

Nnamdipapa:
I am writing about this topic not only because of my interaction with the Nairalander @MrPresident1, but because of my observations on Nairaland and the lived experiences of my contacts with people who profess to be Christians, especially the Pentecostal varieties.
I have attached a screenshot of our conversation, and you will notice how he immediately resorted to insults and abuses. This is someone who goes by the title of “born again,” has more than 200 topics on the Rapture, and is quick to quote Bible verses.

Now to the crux of the matter: does going to church, being born again, or religion in general lead to any change in life in a positive direction? Are the spiritual encounters we experience in our churches mere emotional manipulations with no tangible positive life changes?

This is not only related to this individual alone; I see lots of Bible-touting pastors resort to insults and curses when challenged or countered. I am proud to say I have never been to any church, read the Bible for more than two years now, and will never do so in the future.
Believe me when I tell you these people will speak in tongues in the morning and physically fight and curse you in the evening. I am unchurched, and I am well-behaved and more in control of my emotions than over 99% of these people.
Are the change of life experiences or being born again a big scam?

people claim what they are not and it's by their character you know them, but instead of looking at others let us look at your own claim

"I am unchurched, and I am well-behaved and more in control of my emotions than over 99% of these people."

Does that mean telling someone to "get a life" and you speaking confidently like you are absolutely sure, "my dog feeds better than you"

Why not reevaluate your own evaluation of yourself first. Are you not justifying yourself claiming to be in control of your emotions with a baseless claim of doing than over 8billion or more people on the planet, I don't know how you calculated your 99%. Don't you see that hypocrisy, to condemn others while justifying and elevating yourself.

That's why you need to submit to God and bear the fruit of humility. Forget others first, and focus on your own soul.

Because in truth there are those who claim to come in the name of Jesus and say they are anointed, they do all kinds of miracles and wonders and yet they also do all manner wickedness and pride, these ones are false men of God, false anointed ones but if there are fakes and false ones it means there are real ones.

But forget them all, even me as well, let's focus on the real Jesus, the son of God, giving your life to God won't make you perfect overnight, you are still in your flesh but it will give you the spirit of God and the strength to fight and overcome the pressure to be proud, selfish, look down on others, easily hate and be angry, true joy and peace that doesn't come from things nor this word, a joy that gives you strength to continue to love.

You can either accept God's help in humility or belief you are good enough yourself, accuse others and feel you are better than them or receive God's grace and be a light that men will glorify your Father in heaven

gohf:
people claim what they are not and it's by their character you know them, but instead of looking at others let us look at your own claim

"I am unchurched, and I am well-behaved and more in control of my emotions than over 99% of these people."

Does that mean telling someone to "get a life" and you speaking confidently like you are absolutely sure, "my dog feeds better than you"

Why not reevaluate your own evaluation of yourself first. Are you not justifying yourself claiming to be in control of your emotions with a baseless claim of doing than over 8billion or more people on the planet, I don't know how you calculated your 99%. Don't you see that hypocrisy, to condemn others while justifying and elevating yourself.

That's why you need to submit to God and bear the fruit of humility. Forget others first, and focus on your own soul.

Because in truth there are those who claim to come in the name of Jesus and say they are anointed, they do all kinds of miracles and wonders and yet they also do all manner wickedness and pride, these ones are false men of God, false anointed ones but if there are fakes and false ones it means there are real ones.

But forget them all, even me as well, let's focus on the real Jesus, the son of God, giving your life to God won't make you perfect overnight, you are still in your flesh but it will give you the spirit of God and the strength to fight and overcome the pressure to be proud, selfish, look down on others, easily hate and be angry, true joy and peace that doesn't come from things nor this word, a joy that gives you strength to continue to love.

You can either accept God's help in humility or belief you are good enough yourself, accuse others and feel you are better than them or receive God's grace and be a light that men will glorify your Father in heaven

"Get a life" means to get something meaningful to do with your life as opposed to wasting it. I did not claim to have changed or been born again so, I am not under scrutiny here. He is the one preaching about going to heaven in a blaze of rapture and wanting to convert people like me.

Nnamdipapa:
"Get a life" means to get something meaningful to do with your life as opposed to wasting it. I did not claim to have changed or been born again so, I am not under scrutiny here. He is the one preaching about going to heaven in a blaze of rapture and wanting to convert people like me.

a woman was said to have been caught in adultery, Jesus didn't focus on the woman but on those who brought her. So I ask you as well do you believe that bringing a guilty person under scrutiny while portraying your self as right or better actually means you are good and don't need God's help?

You told someone "Get a life" believing he is wasting his life and needs to do something meaningful with it. I do not know how you came about that, and you may as well be right, but then do you believe you "have a life" and "your life has meaning"

You know, please let me share this with you, hopefully you can consider what I am saying. When I was young I was told, what has value and true meaning is what lasts for long, so what is more valuable is what lasts longer

I thought to my self it made self, the more great a thing, the longer it lasts, no one would invest a lot into something that just dies off.

But by thoughts, I asked myself a question, what is the value of life, if death lasts longer than it? Do you know the answer to that?

gohf:
a woman was said to have been caught in adultery, Jesus didn't focus on the woman but on those who brought her. So I ask you as well do you believe that bringing a guilty person under scrutiny while portraying your self as right or better actually means you are good and don't need God's help?

You told someone "Get a life" believing he is wasting his life and needs to do something meaningful with it. I do not know how you came about that, and you may as well be right, but then do you believe you "have a life" and "your life has meaning"

You know, please let me share this with you, hopefully you can consider what I am saying. When I was young I was told, what has value and true meaning is what lasts for long, so what is more valuable is what lasts longer

I thought to my self it made self, the more great a thing, the longer it lasts, no one would invest a lot into something that just dies off.

But by thoughts, I asked myself a question, what is the value of life, if death lasts longer than it? Do you know the answer to that?

I do not believe in Jesus, the Bible or the morality of the Bible. I am holding him accountable to what he claims to believe in and preach not my own standard. I am sure you are getting my point.

Nnamdipapa:
I am writing about this topic not only because of my interaction with the Nairalander @MrPresident1, but because of my observations on Nairaland and the lived experiences of my contacts with people who profess to be Christians, especially the Pentecostal varieties.
I have attached a screenshot of our conversation, and you will notice how he immediately resorted to insults and abuses. This is someone who goes by the title of “born again,” has more than 200 topics on the Rapture, and is quick to quote Bible verses.

Now to the crux of the matter: does going to church, being born again, or religion in general lead to any change in life in a positive direction? Are the spiritual encounters we experience in our churches mere emotional manipulations with no tangible positive life changes?

This is not only related to this individual alone; I see lots of Bible-touting pastors resort to insults and curses when challenged or countered. I am proud to say I have never been to any church, read the Bible for more than two years now, and will never do so in the future.
Believe me when I tell you these people will speak in tongues in the morning and physically fight and curse you in the evening. I am unchurched, and I am well-behaved and more in control of my emotions than over 99% of these people.
Are the change of life experiences or being born again a big scam?

I understand you, and I’d like to explain something about being "born again" that many people may not fully realize. Many Christians have accepted Jesus as their Savior, but they are not truly born again. While these two concepts are closely related, they are not the same.

According to Scripture, being born again refers to the spiritual transformation that happens when someone accepts Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. It is a rebirth or regeneration of the spirit, symbolizing a new beginning in one's relationship with God. On the other hand, accepting Christ involves the act of recognizing your sinfulness, acknowledging your need for a Savior, and receiving Jesus as your Lord and Savior.

To put it another way, accepting Christ is like opening the door to your heart, while being born again is the work of the Holy Spirit entering and transforming your life from within.

Unfortunately, many Christians stop at accepting Christ without experiencing the transformation that being born again brings. After receiving Christ, there must be a renewal of the mind. Without this renewal, old habits and sinful behaviors—such as lying, insults, fighting, immorality, and other wrongdoings—may persist in a person's life.

In summary, many have accepted Jesus into their lives but have not truly been born again, as they lack the spiritual transformation that follows.

gohf:
a woman was said to have been caught in adultery, Jesus didn't focus on the woman but on those who brought her. So I ask you as well do you believe that bringing a guilty person under scrutiny while portraying your self as right or better actually means you are good and don't need God's help?

You told someone "Get a life" believing he is wasting his life and needs to do something meaningful with it. I do not know how you came about that, and you may as well be right, but then do you believe you "have a life" and "your life has meaning"

You know, please let me share this with you, hopefully you can consider what I am saying. When I was young I was told, what has value and true meaning is what lasts for long, so what is more valuable is what lasts longer

I thought to my self it made self, the more great a thing, the longer it lasts, no one would invest a lot into something that just dies off.

But by thoughts, I asked myself a question, what is the value of life, if death lasts longer than it? Do you know the answer to that?

The value of life has been a question subject to philosophical arguments for decades, subject like ; Origin, morality, life after death or destination, and life meanings are topics that have been exhaustively departed in the past.

The meaning of life is subjective depending on who you ask. It is to enjoy my life to the fullest, travel round the world, date and have good sex, and raise smart children.

I will never accept the answer of the Bible as correct if David is allowed to have wives and concubines and I am thrown into hell for having one girlfriend.

I will never accept the Bible's morality if it claims kids are born in sin that does not concern them.

I will never accept the Bible's meaning if the God of the Bible commanded for the Babies of the Amalekites to be Genocied..

Nnamdipapa:
The value of life has been a question subject to philosophical arguments for decades, subject like ; Origin, morality, life after death or destination, and life meanings are topics that have been exhaustively departed in the past.

The meaning of life is subjective depending on who you ask. It is to enjoy my life to the fullest, travel round the world, date and have good sex, and raise smart children.

I will never accept the answer of the Bible as correct if David is allowed to have wives and concubines and I am thrown into hell for having one girlfriend.

I will never accept the Bible's morality if it claims kids are born in sin that does not concern them.

I will never accept the Bible's meaning if the God of the Bible commanded for the Babies of the Amalekites to be Genocied..

The value of life has you have written has been a question without a definite answer from the lists of those you wrote. Because no matter what value you give to it, death nullifies it.

So while you say, "The meaning of life is subjective depending on who you ask." Why then do you feel that your subjective definition should be used to evaluate others and should be accepted of them. So according to you, if someone does all those things, travel, sex, have children, then he has life and his life has meaning?

And yet you will never accept the bible has correct even when you are wrong?

You will never accept the Bible has correct even when obviously you don't or haven't read it, obvious from your misbelieving that having a girlfriend will lead you to hell? Where did you read that? Or were you thought and you gullibly believed that it was inside the bible.

You will go to hell for being a fornicator, and not for marrying many wives. Do you understand what it means to be a fornicator, have you ever had someone to actually teach you the bible and you read it as well.

You will never accept the Bible's morality if it claims kids are born in sin that does not concern them.

Now do you even know what sin is, where did you get your knowledge from? Don't you realize that you're prancing around like you know what you clearly do not know nor understand fully. You call it bible morality, do you know what bible morality it.

Have you even read where God said, the soul that sins that soul shall die, not for the sins of their father nor for the sins of their children.

But here you are claiming to know what you don't know, what does that tell you of yourself.

judgement based on assumptions and ignorance, is that true judgement? Be honest with yourself

You will never accept the Bible's meaning if the God of the Bible commanded for the Babies of the Amalekites to be Genocied.

You said if, are you not sure He did. Now before you judge God's command, have you ever taken care of abandoned children before? Have you adopted children from war zones and raised up to be virtuous, good and smart children. Have you taken care of other people's children, the orphans and the widows?


Let me repeat it again, before you judge others, why don't you reevaluate yourself are you actually right?

Nnamdipapa:
I do not believe in Jesus, the Bible or the morality of the Bible. I am holding him accountable to what he claims to believe in and preach not my own standard. I am sure you are getting my point.

I don't speak about people behind their backs when he Mrpresident1 appears let him defend himself and be subject to defense, isn't that the proper way. Should we condemn him based only on your own statement?

But for you, why do you feel you are right to hold someone else accountable to something you do not truly know, why not know it properly so that your evaluation can be considered. But this also is not my focus

I am showing you your own need for God's help, you can either accept it or reject it, and believe you are already good enough and your life which will end in sufficient for you. And for that God in his mercy will let you enjoy it to the fullness, but this is all the you would ever have because God cannot force eternal life on one who doesn't want it, should He?

Hold him accountable all you want but know that God will hold us all, even I myself accountable, for every word I am typing a record exists for it, for my sins and secrets a record exists for it, my mistakes, my faults, and even worst crimes you can think of that no man knows, God knows them all.

The phrase "BORN AGAIN" has deeper meaning that most churchgoers can't grasp but i will explain.

There are two persons dragging an issue one is an accuser while the other is the most powerful in the universe.

Almighty God said humans can't rule themselves successfully but an enemy who wanted to rule slandered God so as to gain the support of humans.

The first human couple joined this enemy and sold all their descendants to slavery under the rulership of Satan (Slanderer)

From that time onwards mankind had to face the fact that whoever wants to rule in either side must be anointed/initiated, in the circle belonging to Satan humans have to become members of his coven by serving him as their Lord after all he is the head of rebels but on the other hand Jehovah made someone His anointed King (Messiah or Christ) who will conquer the enemy (Satan) by gathering 144,000 from those under the human government and God will anoint them to rule with Jesus but they have a huge task ahead of them if they must win the crown as Christ's corulers.

This is what Nicodemus wanted as a ruler among the Jews he wanted to cross from being a member of Satan's coven to God's side that's why Jesus told him that he must be BORN AGAIN! John 3:3-5

The truth is whether God's side of Satan's whoever wants a seat as coruler must be anointed or initiated but while Satan's agents are given their rewards right here on planet earth {Luke 4:5-7} Jesus' corulers must give all what they have now to secure the seat with Jesus in heaven! Luke 18:22

So either side both have a lot to do with the spirit realms!

Thankgod89:
I understand you, and I’d like to explain something about being "born again" that many people may not fully realize. Many Christians have accepted Jesus as their Savior, but they are not truly born again. While these two concepts are closely related, they are not the same.

According to Scripture, being born again refers to the spiritual transformation that happens when someone accepts Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. It is a rebirth or regeneration of the spirit, symbolizing a new beginning in one's relationship with God. On the other hand, accepting Christ involves the act of recognizing your sinfulness, acknowledging your need for a Savior, and receiving Jesus as your Lord and Savior.

To put it another way, accepting Christ is like opening the door to your heart, while being born again is the work of the Holy Spirit entering and transforming your life from within.

Unfortunately, many Christians stop at accepting Christ without experiencing the transformation that being born again brings. After receiving Christ, there must be a renewal of the mind. Without this renewal, old habits and sinful behaviors—such as lying, insults, fighting, immorality, and other wrongdoings—may persist in a person's life.

In summary, many have accepted Jesus into their lives but have not truly been born again, as they lack the spiritual transformation that follows.

it's nice that you trying to explain this but you wrote
"being born again refers to the spiritual transformation that happens when someone accepts Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior."
Then wrote
"Unfortunately, many Christians stop at accepting Christ without experiencing the transformation that being born again brings."

A transformation that occurs when they are Jesus is stopped by them, why, how? Or are you saying they do get transformed and are born again but don't experience what it is supposed to bring?

Then your conclusion
"In summary, many have accepted Jesus into their lives but have not truly been born again, as they lack the spiritual transformation that follows."

You are saying it is possible to accept Jesus and not be transformed? Who taught you that?

MaxInDHouse:
The phrase "BORN AGAIN" has deeper meaning that most churchgoers can't grasp but i will explain.

There are two persons dragging an issue one is an accuser while the other is the most powerful in the universe.

Almighty God said humans can't rule themselves successfully but an enemy who wanted to rule slandered God so as to gain the support of humans.

The first human couple joined this enemy and sold all their descendants to slavery under the rulership of Satan (Slanderer)

From that time onwards mankind had to face the fact that whoever wants to rule in either side must be anointed/initiated, in the circle belonging to Satan humans have to become members of his coven by serving him as their Lord after all he is the head of rebels but on the other hand Jehovah made someone His anointed King (Messiah or Christ) who will conquer the enemy (Satan) by gathering 144,000 from those under the human government and God will anoint them to rule with Jesus but they have a huge task ahead of them if they must win the crown as Christ's corulers.

This is what Nicodemus wanted as a ruler among the Jews he wanted to cross from being a member of Satan's coven to God's side that's why Jesus told him that he must be BORN AGAIN! John 3:3-5

The truth is whether God's side of Satan's whoever wants a seat as coruler must be anointed or initiated but while Satan's agents are given their rewards right here on planet earth {Luke 4:5-7} Jesus' corulers must give all what they have now to secure the seat with Jesus in heaven! Luke 18:22

So either side both have a lot to do with the spirit realms!

how do you even understand your own explanation? From what you have written what then does it mean to be born again?

Nnamdipapa:
I do not believe in Jesus, the Bible or the morality of the Bible

You are on the right path

gohf:
how do you even understand your own explanation? From what you have written what then does it mean to be born again?

I suppose to ignore you because i expected this question from other readers, however for the sake of other interested followers of this thread i will oblige but please next time don't engage me!

BORN AGAIN simply means having a as spiritual body with which the bearer will associate with the angels or demons.

This spiritual body is in two forms:

On God's side it's only from the midst of Christ's faithful followers a person could be CHOSEN and this spiritual body awaits the born again during the resurrection because he will no longer be a part of humans but like angels in heaven he will rule with the Christ.

On Satan's side whoever accepts the mark of the beast (666) will be given his own spiritual body to dine and wine with Satan and other agents who are corulers of planet earth now. They have a special seat reserved for them in Satan's government.

So both are BORN AGAIN in the real sense but the difference between the two is that those on God's side will have to wait until the Kingdom is given to their King (Christ) when he will come to take them to heaven where they will forever be alive with him but as for those on Satan's side they are the world rulers today who will all perish along with Satan when Christ begins his rule!

gohf:
it's nice that you trying to explain this but you wrote
"being born again refers to the spiritual transformation that happens when someone accepts Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior."
Then wrote
"Unfortunately, many Christians stop at accepting Christ without experiencing the transformation that being born again brings."

A transformation that occurs when they are Jesus is stopped by them, why, how? Or are you saying they do get transformed and are born again but don't experience what it is supposed to bring?

Then your conclusion
"In summary, many have accepted Jesus into their lives but have not truly been born again, as they lack the spiritual transformation that follows."

You are saying it is possible to accept Jesus and not be transformed? Who taught you that?

Thank you for pointing out these important questions. Let me clarify what I meant and address your concerns thoughtfully.

When I said, "being born again refers to the spiritual transformation that happens when someone accepts Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior," I was describing the ideal process—what should happen when someone genuinely embraces Christ. This transformation involves a deep, inner renewal by the Holy Spirit, changing one's heart, mind, and actions in alignment with God’s will (John 3:5-6; 2 Corinthians 5:17).

However, my follow-up statement reflects the reality that not everyone who professes faith in Christ experiences or fully embraces this transformation. Here’s why:

1. Faith Without Depth: Some accept Jesus intellectually or emotionally but do not allow the Holy Spirit to truly work in their lives (Matthew 13:20-22). This can result in a lack of genuine transformation.

2. Resistance to Growth: While salvation is a gift, spiritual growth requires cooperation with God. Some resist surrendering fully, holding on to old ways, which stunts their transformation (Ephesians 4:22-24).

3. Misunderstanding of Salvation: There is sometimes a misunderstanding that accepting Christ is just a one-time declaration, rather than the start of a lifelong journey of faith and renewal (Philippians 2:12-13).

So, when I concluded, "many have accepted Jesus into their lives but have not truly been born again," I wasn’t saying that true transformation is optional or incomplete. Instead, I was highlighting that outward acceptance doesn’t always equate to genuine, inward rebirth if there’s no evidence of spiritual growth and change.

Ultimately, Jesus taught that true discipleship involves both hearing His words and putting them into practice (Matthew 7:21-23). Accepting Jesus is the starting point, but the journey of being born again involves yielding to the Holy Spirit, leading to a life transformed by grace.

What are your thoughts on this? I’d love to hear your perspective!

Thankgod89:
Thank you for pointing out these important questions. Let me clarify what I meant and address your concerns thoughtfully.

When I said, "being born again refers to the spiritual transformation that happens when someone accepts Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior," I was describing the ideal process—what should happen when someone genuinely embraces Christ. This transformation involves a deep, inner renewal by the Holy Spirit, changing one's heart, mind, and actions in alignment with God’s will (John 3:5-6; 2 Corinthians 5:17).

However, my follow-up statement reflects the reality that not everyone who professes faith in Christ experiences or fully embraces this transformation. Here’s why:

1. Faith Without Depth: Some accept Jesus intellectually or emotionally but do not allow the Holy Spirit to truly work in their lives (Matthew 13:20-22). This can result in a lack of genuine transformation.

2. Resistance to Growth: While salvation is a gift, spiritual growth requires cooperation with God. Some resist surrendering fully, holding on to old ways, which stunts their transformation (Ephesians 4:22-24).

3. Misunderstanding of Salvation: There is sometimes a misunderstanding that accepting Christ is just a one-time declaration, rather than the start of a lifelong journey of faith and renewal (Philippians 2:12-13).

So, when I concluded, "many have accepted Jesus into their lives but have not truly been born again," I wasn’t saying that true transformation is optional or incomplete. Instead, I was highlighting that outward acceptance doesn’t always equate to genuine, inward rebirth if there’s no evidence of spiritual growth and change.

Ultimately, Jesus taught that true discipleship involves both hearing His words and putting them into practice (Matthew 7:21-23). Accepting Jesus is the starting point, but the journey of being born again involves yielding to the Holy Spirit, leading to a life transformed by grace.

What are your thoughts on this? I’d love to hear your perspective!

I appreciate your response and your biblical texts attached to each point.

Let me share with you what I have learnt from your explanation.

So the transformation of being born again is a process that begins when one accepts Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

Now while some have heard God's word and experienced the joy of conversation they don't bear fruit, they have no evidence of being born again, because they lacked depth in God's word, they were not rooted in it. They did not go through work of transformation by the Holy spirit which gives them that depth.

And while some resist, some cooperate with God's work in their lives. And some due to wrong teaching about salvation believe they are already saved because of their declaration so don't feel a need for more depth and growth.

Dearest friends, you were always so careful to follow my instructions when I was with you. And now that I am away you must be even more careful to put into action God's saving work in your lives, obeying God with deep reverence and fear. For God is working in you, giving you the desire to obey him and the power to do what pleases him. (Philippians 2:12-13)
So the work of salvation in us is continuous.

I agree with your conclusion, would have highlighted it but I also agree with your explanation as well and there are many valid points there to highlight.

My thoughts agree with what you have explained and is valid for the salvation of souls.

My perspective is that when a person believes God's word and repents, returning back to God, they become born again and they experience and see the kingdom of God which is the purpose of repentance and proof one genuinely believes, repented and is born again. The only reason one would not have this experience is either because they rejected God's word or they were not given God's word in the first place, so what they believed was a lie. And it is God's word that is power to save.

Looking at what Peter wrote
1Pet.1.23 For you have been born again. Your new life did not come from your earthly parents because the life they gave you will end in death. But this new life will last forever because it comes from the eternal, living word of God.

And what he wrote previously shows that it is only through God's word we come to trust in God.
1Pet.1.21-22 - Through Christ you have come to trust in God. And because God raised Christ from the dead and gave him great glory, your faith and hope can be placed confidently in God. Now you can have sincere love for each other as brothers and sisters because you were cleansed from your sins when you accepted the truth of the Good News. So see to it that you really do love each other intensely with all your hearts.

The issue is that many are not proclaiming God's word but theirs, or they are teaching and practicing the laws of Moses, instead of the gospel, so many are not even hearing the gospel to begin with and what they are hearing leaves them in the same state they were in, in the beginning as a result of the deception of the devil.

If we say to receive the gospel is the conception of one's faith, where we go from death to life, being cleansed by the blood of Jesus and then being able to obey Jesus and love, we can say such a person is born of God's word and has new life, having a new heart and is born again.

So when one receives a dead word like a dead sperm, there will no conception, no new life and no birth. So they won't experience anything that occurs within those who actually received the living word of God.

Now when we want to go deeper, and consider that seeing the kingdom of God, like Jesus said in John 3:3 which is the privilege of those who are born again, is different from the privilege of those born of the spirit which enter the kingdom of God John 3:5.

First I can say that just as a baby is dependent completely upon it's mother while in the womb, such is the process from believing to receiving of the Holy Spirit, so before the Holy Spirit can work in a person such a person has to have received him. And that's why Jesus is the author of our faith, who through his blood cleanses us and liberates for the reception of the Holy Spirit. For the spirit of God is where liberty is, and who the son sets free is free indeed. But if people are still in bondage and not set free would they receive the Spirit of truth which the world cannot receive? No. But for those who do become born again, receiving the Holy Spirit, it is evident by the change that occurs within them that God has chosen them.

That's why my perspective is that being born again, is like a baby who sincerely desire the milk of God's word but also would have to make effort in their growth as you have mentioned so that the transformation is complete and also seen more outwardly. And it is as natural though a war, they overcome because they are willing and submissive to God's work in their lives. And this work lasts throughout our lives.

Now should we also consider that being born in the spirit and becoming spirit isn't something that can occur while one is still in the flesh, which means the process occurs at one's death.

That is why Paul would say, it is what he looked forward to attain and obtain it. So therefore the work of the Holy Spirit which begins upon reception must continue in a man's life until they leave this world. Wherein Jesus says those who stay till the end is saved.


So being born again we receive that gift of new life and God's spirit, tasting God's power and having the assurance of things to come. But unfortunately many are not genuinely born again so they leave and as John would say, they left because they were never a part of us.

Things like persecution and lust for money would not permit them to bear fruit because the Holy Spirit that makes us fruitful isn't at work within them.

This is my perspective, hearing from you was a blessing we need more messages on the need for discipleship. Thanks

gohf:
I appreciate your response and your biblical texts attached to each point.

Let me share with you what I have learnt from your explanation.

So the transformation of being born again is a process that begins when one accepts Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

Now while some have heard God's word and experienced the joy of conversation they don't bear fruit, they have no evidence of being born again, because they lacked depth in God's word, they were not rooted in it. They did not go through work of transformation by the Holy spirit which gives them that depth.

And while some resist, some cooperate with God's work in their lives. And some due to wrong teaching about salvation believe they are already saved because of their declaration so don't feel a need for more depth and growth.

Dearest friends, you were always so careful to follow my instructions when I was with you. And now that I am away you must be even more careful to put into action God's saving work in your lives, obeying God with deep reverence and fear. For God is working in you, giving you the desire to obey him and the power to do what pleases him. (Philippians 2:12-13)
So the work of salvation in us is continuous.

I agree with your conclusion, would have highlighted it but I also agree with your explanation as well and there are many valid points there to highlight.

My thoughts agree with what you have explained and is valid for the salvation of souls.

My perspective is that when a person believes God's word and repents, returning back to God, they become born again and they experience and see the kingdom of God which is the purpose of repentance and proof one genuinely believes, repented and is born again. The only reason one would not have this experience is either because they rejected God's word or they were not given God's word in the first place, so what they believed was a lie. And it is God's word that is power to save.

Looking at what Peter wrote
1Pet.1.23 For you have been born again. Your new life did not come from your earthly parents because the life they gave you will end in death. But this new life will last forever because it comes from the eternal, living word of God.

And what he wrote previously shows that it is only through God's word we come to trust in God.
1Pet.1.21-22 - Through Christ you have come to trust in God. And because God raised Christ from the dead and gave him great glory, your faith and hope can be placed confidently in God. Now you can have sincere love for each other as brothers and sisters because you were cleansed from your sins when you accepted the truth of the Good News. So see to it that you really do love each other intensely with all your hearts.

The issue is that many are not proclaiming God's word but theirs, or they are teaching and practicing the laws of Moses, instead of the gospel, so many are not even hearing the gospel to begin with and what they are hearing leaves them in the same state they were in, in the beginning as a result of the deception of the devil.

If we say to receive the gospel is the conception of one's faith, where we go from death to life, being cleansed by the blood of Jesus and then being able to obey Jesus and love, we can say such a person is born of God's word and has new life, having a new heart and is born again.

So when one receives a dead word like a dead sperm, there will no conception, no new life and no birth. So they won't experience anything that occurs within those who actually received the living word of God.

Now when we want to go deeper, and consider that seeing the kingdom of God, like Jesus said in John 3:3 which is the privilege of those who are born again, is different from the privilege of those born of the spirit which enter the kingdom of God John 3:5.

First I can say that just as a baby is dependent completely upon it's mother while in the womb, such is the process from believing to receiving of the Holy Spirit, so before the Holy Spirit can work in a person such a person has to have received him. And that's why Jesus is the author of our faith, who through his blood cleanses us and liberates for the reception of the Holy Spirit. For the spirit of God is where liberty is, and who the son sets free is free indeed. But if people are still in bondage and not set free would they receive the Spirit of truth which the world cannot receive? No. But for those who do become born again, receiving the Holy Spirit, it is evident by the change that occurs within them that God has chosen them.

That's why my perspective is that being born again, is like a baby who sincerely desire the milk of God's word but also would have to make effort in their growth as you have mentioned so that the transformation is complete and also seen more outwardly. And it is as natural though a war, they overcome because they are willing and submissive to God's work in their lives. And this work lasts throughout our lives.

Now should we also consider that being born in the spirit and becoming spirit isn't something that can occur while one is still in the flesh, which means the process occurs at one's death.

That is why Paul would say, it is what he looked forward to attain and obtain it. So therefore the work of the Holy Spirit which begins upon reception must continue in a man's life until they leave this world. Wherein Jesus says those who stay till the end is saved.


So being born again we receive that gift of new life and God's spirit, tasting God's power and having the assurance of things to come. But unfortunately many are not genuinely born again so they leave and as John would say, they left because they were never a part of us.

Things like persecution and lust for money would not permit them to bear fruit because the Holy Spirit that makes us fruitful isn't at work within them.

This is my perspective, hearing from you was a blessing we need more messages on the need for discipleship. Thanks

You’re welcome. My struggle with lust (specifically masturbation) has helped me recognize what is lacking in my spiritual life. After hearing a message from Bishop Mike Okonkwo, i put it into action and with the help of Holy Spirit, i was set free indeed—though I’m not a member of TREM—but of his sermon opened my eyes to what Christians need in order to resist the forces of sin, even after confessing Christ as their personal Savior.