₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse:
You haven't shown me a verse that says "Jesus is not an angel"

Haha

Emusan:
You agreed it was the WORD God sent and not ANGEL.

Case closed



You used ANGEL here but up it was THE WORD

Clear difference and reason why Jesus can't be angel.

Another angle, it means Jesus was never the FIRST ANGEL TO BECOME MAN

More trouble for JaNosense



No verse to support this.

Jesus Christ Is the Creator, He created both Michael and you.



I'm not the writer of your NWT who pervert their translation just to support those inaccurate doctrines that were forced into your empty skull.

So, tell that to your gods in Warwick

Achorladey 😹😹

cornelboy:
Achorladey 😹😹

ecc_7:6  For as the crackling of thorns under a pot, So is the laughter of the fool

lost false jw cornyboy, you people are paranoid as hell, of course:
rev 21:8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

GothamCities:
Then let it start from you.
Give me a direct word for word quotation from the Bible that says "Jesus is angel Michael "

You are the one who first demanded a word for word quotation so it should start from you.
To me everything you people are claiming regarding Jesus being God or Trinity all came from comparing what is found written in the scriptures no verse explicitly says Jesus is God neither can we find the word TRINITY so instead of asking for doctrines in a word for word quotation we must all agree to see reasons with whatever quotation anyone presents for his doctrine.
From my own point of view Jesus is the Archangel Michael before coming to planet earth!

Emusan:
Jesus Christ Is the Creator, He created both Michael and you.

Can you quote a verse that says Jesus created Michael?

cornelboy:
That why i always ask them what was Jesus identity before coming to earth.
It was when he came to earth he got the name "Jesus". So what was his name before then?

According to the Bible there is one angel who always represent God in the presence of all other angels, this is the angel who spoke with Abraham among the big trees of Mamre {Genesis 18:1} some may like argue saying Abraham spoke to Jehovah but John made it clear to us that no man has seen God at any given time so who have they been seeing and talking to face to face {Deuteronomy 34:10} surely it the only angel who always represent God {Exodus 13:21; 14:19} that's what apostle John was telling us! John 1:18

So Jesus is the angel of the Lord or the Archangel whose duty has always been to speak for God before other angels and humans as spokesman you will notice that Michael has never been said to speak with any human directly throughout the Bible whenever that name (Michael) is mentioned he speaks with an angel or angels {Daniel 10:13; Jude 9} and whenever he speaks with a human the Bible will say the angel of God or Jehovah! Exodus 13:21; 14:19

Daniel later revealed that this angel who always stand up as defender or protector of God's people is Archangel Michael! Daniel 12:1 compare to Daniel 3:25

So the name Jesus who is the WORD of God bears in heaven is Michael!

Janosky:

Your Trinitarian mentors said the incarnate Jesus is
Archangel Michael, the Commander of Yahweh's Army ,he and other angels dwelt on the earth for the period of their interaction with men, Joshua 5:13-14, Luke 24:4,23. John 20:12.

These divine messengers dwelt on earth until their mission and purpose were fulfilled.

Oga, stop deceiving yourself.

See more Lies.

None of these verses show an Angel dwelling on earth.

See how devil has Lied by turning a quick visitation into a staying (dwelling) even when the facts show that the angel all came in suddenly, dropped their message and disappeared again.

No where did they have a house on earth and dwelt in it

They all came in suddenly, dropped their message and disappeared again.

No where do you see it stated that they left their house somewhere on earth and travelled to do their work and when they finished they returned back to their house that was on earth.

Now, I see, knowing that all you say are Lies, you are just here to abuse and make any kind of argument of lies that you can create as long as you can base it on some Truth.

So this is just you proving that half truth is even more evil than a Lie, and you are the devil using it.

In all these, it is clear that you know you are Lying but you are here to ensure that your Lies and arguments go on in perpetuity, so that people must join you and your father Satan in the lake of Fire.

Clear proof that Jw is Satanism

And now I know that you shall find another Lie to Lie and place that Lie on a Truth as Satan did to Eve and Jesus

That is how you plan to ensure that your Lies are planted for forever as long as the argument goes on. Thereby proving that you are a true child of Satan.

So it is you the bible was referring to when it said we should not argue

2 Timothy 2:23
"But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife (and Lies)

I don catch wetin you dey do now.

MaxInDHouse:
You are the one who first demanded a word for word quotation so it should start from you.

Why are you lying? Quote where I first made this demand you lied about.

To me everything you people are claiming regarding Jesus being God or Trinity all came from comparing what is found written in the scriptures no verse explicitly says Jesus is God

This is another lie. There are verses that claim Jesus is God. The verses made the claims. Most of what we hold as truth today are claims made by the scriptures. Claims and Assertions are both strong components of faith. We have the claims of scripture that Jesus is God but there is not a single claim of scripture that Jesus is Michael. You can never find such claims. You must be deluded to be looking for assertions when there are claims already ignored by you.

neither can we find the word TRINITY so instead of asking for doctrines in a word for word quotation we must all agree to see reasons with whatever quotation anyone presents for his doctrine.
From my own point of view Jesus is the Archangel Michael before coming to planet earth!

The problem with your point of view is that there is no single claim of Scripture to support your point of view. They're all fabrications made in your head. Here are several Scriptures that claim Jesus is God.

Here are some scriptures that affirm Jesus' divinity:

1. *John 1:1*: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

This verse clearly states that Jesus, referred to as the Word, is God.

2. *John 1:14*: "The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth."

The Word which the Scriptures claimed to.be God became flesh and dwelt among men as Jesus.

This verse also emphasizes Jesus' divinity, calling Him the "one and only Son" who came from the Father.

You cannot see any verse that claims Jesus is angel Michael.

3. *Isaiah 9:6*: "For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."

This Old Testament prophecy refers to Jesus as "Mighty God."

4. *Hebrews 1:8*: "But about the Son he says, 'Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever...'"

This verse quotes Psalm 45:6-7, which refers to the Son as God.

5. *Colossians 2:9*: "For in Christ [/b]all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily" form[/b]

Does that look like angel Michael to you?.

Jesus is called our God and Savior:

6. *Titus 2:13*: "while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ."

7. *2 Peter 1:1*: "Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours."

In Revelation 1:17-18

Jesus personally introduced Himself: as the First and the Last:

"When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades".

These are direct Biblical statements. There are many more. The Bible claims Jesus is God.

The most prominent Scripture which guys you to deluded yourself is the Letter of Paul to the Thessalonians where Paul said Jesus would come with the voice of an archangel. How can coming with the voice of an archangel make you an archangel? To be an archangel, you must come as an archangel and not just with his voice. That single isolated scripture with all your distortions of it cannot make Jesus Michael. There are many archangels. Michael is not the only one. Jesus was not even said to be coming with the voice of archangel Michael.

Jesus said he is the First and the Last as quoted for you above.

Who is the First and the Last? Can you answer that question or would you feign blindness? Is an angel the first and the last?

GothamCities:
There are verses that claim Jesus is God.

Please provide one verse in the Bible that say this word for word.

GothamCities:
There are many archangels.

Please quote a verse where another archangel is mentioned in the Bible
Thanks!

MaxInDHouse:
Please provide one verse in the Bible that say this word for word.

You saw the verses I quoted with it. Why cut them off? You're very dubious.

Please quote a verse where another archangel is mentioned in the Bible
Thanks!

Michael is not the only chief prince. He's obe of the chief princes.

Iwillbeback:
Why is Christ the angel of the Lord ?

Therefore in light of the three points above, the Angel of the Lord has to be Christ.

Thank you all for reading

Despite all the back and forth arguments here nobody addressed this!

GothamCities:
You saw the verses I quoted with it. Why cut them off? You're very dubious.

Right below is my own submission.
Why do you choose to avoid it?

MaxInDHouse:
According to the Bible there is one angel who always represent God in the presence of all other angels, this is the angel who spoke with Abraham among the big trees of Mamre {Genesis 18:1} some may like argue saying Abraham spoke to Jehovah but John made it clear to us that no man has seen God at any given time so who have they been seeing and talking to face to face {Deuteronomy 34:10} surely it the only angel who always represent God {Exodus 13:21; 14:19} that's what apostle John was telling us! John 1:18

So Jesus is the angel of the Lord or the Archangel whose duty has always been to speak for God before other angels and humans as spokesman you will notice that Michael has never been said to speak with any human directly throughout the Bible whenever that name (Michael) is mentioned he speaks with an angel or angels {Daniel 10:13; Jude 9} and whenever he speaks with a human the Bible will say the angel of God or Jehovah! Exodus 13:21; 14:19

Daniel later revealed that this angel who always stand up as defender or protector of God's people is Archangel Michael! Daniel 12:1 compare to Daniel 3:25

So the name Jesus who is the WORD of God bears in heaven is Michael!

GothamCities:
Michael is not the only chief prince. He's obe of the chief princes.

Bible addressed only Michael as the Archangel but if you have another please quote the verse!

MaxInDHouse:
Right below is my own submission.
Why do you choose to avoid it?

You never made that submission to me.

God has millions of angels. How many of them are mentioned in the Bible? Answer me.

Tell me where the Bible says the angels that visited Abraham had Michael among them.

Tell me where the Bible says Michael is an angel of the Lord whose duty is to speak for the Lord.

Michael does not run messages for God. He is a warrior angel as depicted in Scripture. Gabriel is the one who delivers messages. Gabriel is also an archangel according to Bible traditions. Gabriel does not fight. He wasn't made for that. Michael fights because he's a warrior.

Bible addressed only Michael as the Archangel but if you have another please quote the verse!

Lucifer was also an archangel. Michael is not the only archangel.

An archangel is simply the angel in command of a certain number of angels. They're also called chief princes. God has millions if not billions of angels with several Divisions. Each division has an angellic leader. That angelic leader is called an archangel. Why are you so ignorant?

You would do well to counter my submission as I have countered yours instead of ignoring to go pick scriptures you don't even understand.

GothamCities:
Gabriel is also an archangel
Lucifer was also an archangel.

Please quote verses where these things are mentioned in the Bible.
Thanks!

MaxInDHouse:
Please quote verses where these things are mentioned in the Bible.
Thanks!

Did you read where I said Biblical traditions? The fact that Michael is referred to as one of the chief princes and not the only chief prince should be enough for you.

Or tell us that Michael is the only chief prince.

GothamCities:
Did you read where I said Biblical traditions? The fact that Michael is referred to as one of the chief princes and not the only chief prince should be enough for you.
Or tell us that Michael is the only chief prince.

The title chief prince totally differ from Archangel just as the word prince differ from the word heir.
There are many princes but only one is designated to inherit the throne.
So while the title Archangel is used for only one angel (Michael) the title chief prince is used for many angels who are closer to God than others that's why Paul could say:

For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 1Corinthans 8:5

There are gods and lords in heaven but only one Archangel has the highest position among them all!

MaxInDHouse:
The title chief prince totally differ from Archangel just as the word prince differ from the word heir.
There are many princes but only one is designated to inherit the throne.
So while the title Archangel is used for only one angel (Michael) the title chief prince is used for many angels who are closer to God than others that's why Paul could say:

Just name another angel that the title 'chief prince 'was used for. Name one.

The Bible is not a book of angels. Michael is the angel over Israel, and that is why his name was specifically mentioned as an archangel, since the Bible is a book of God's dealings with Israel. The Angel specially told Daniel "There's no one that helps me in these things except Michael your prince..."

The Bible is not the only source for these things. Peter and Jude quoted from other sources not canonized in Nicea . These other sources mentioned some other archangels and their names.

For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 1Corinthans 8:5

There are gods and lords in heaven but only one Archangel has the highest position among them all!

The Bible never said there's only one archangel. That's your own interpolation. There is only one God and one Lord in heaven. Open your ears. On earth there are many gods and many lords. That's what that Scripture is telling you.

Lucifer was an archangel. He was a commander over a host. An archangel is simply a commander in God's host. Ignorance is not bliss.

Now, I'm discussing your points directly, puncturing the loopholes in you're submissions. Why are you shying away from discussing my points? Because there are no loopholes of course!

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus is not written in the verse!

So who was written there?

You haven't quote a verse that says Jesus is the word of God!

I've don't that.

Are you saying Jesus is not THE WORD?

I'm boldly saying Jesus is not MICHAEL

MaxInDHouse:
Can you quote a verse that says Jesus created Michael?

Plenty
John 1:3
Heb 1:2, 17-18

Smile...Your Michael is a creature and without Jesus NOTHING was CREATED.

You can't deny any of those statements above!

GothamCities:
The most prominent Scripture which guys you to deluded yourself is the Letter of Paul to the Thessalonians where Paul said Jesus would come with the voice of an archangel. How can coming with the voice of an archangel make you an archangel? To be an archangel, you must come as an archangel and not just with his voice. That single isolated scripture with all your distortions of it cannot make Jesus Michael. There are many archangels. Michael is not the only one. Jesus was not even said to be coming with the voice of archangel Michael.

Jesus said he is the First and the Last as quoted for you above.

Who is the First and the Last? Can you answer that question or would you feign blindness? Is an angel the first and the last?

The point you raised above is spot on!
I have indeed asked them a similar question myself🤔 whether or not Jesus was a fan? 🤨After all, one in a certain place records of him coming with a fan.

A question to this day, they have not provided an answer to!!!

Simple semantics will make you see that "coming with" doesn't equate you with that thing🤨.

Or by someone coming with phone, suddenly equates one to a phone🤔?

Another point, I enjoy is when you raised up the known fact that "Michael is one of the archangels🤨" something to this day, Max and his colleagues have failed to reconcile to the rest of scripture!!!

In some cases, you will find Max blabbing about "first set" 🤔.
When probed further, you will find his "first set" theory - primus conventus - rather implausible as its implications are rather unfortunate!!!

All, I can see is that some men had a preconceived notion of Christ being an Angel - A conclusion, from which they worked backwards to find corroborating premises, neglecting others that "do not fit".

There's little to no difference between them and Muslims, Muslims likewise read the bible from the lens of a preconceived conclusion!!!

MaxInDHouse:
Trinity is not common sense but lies told by the third century churches to make pagans accept Christendom.
Trinity has been existing as paganism before Jesus was born.

The discourse that brought about Trinity did not have any pagan input. Non of the discussants were outside the church.

This is the lie JW peddled before I studied the discussants and their contributions. You don't need to tell lies to validate the truth.

MaxInDHouse:
The title chief prince totally differ from Archangel just as the word prince differ from the word heir.
There are many princes but only one is designated to inherit the throne.
So while the title Archangel is used for only one angel (Michael) the title chief prince is used for many angels who are closer to God than others that's why Paul could say:

For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 1Corinthans 8:5

There are gods and lords in heaven but only one Archangel has the highest position among them all!

Chief prince different from Archangel 🤧?

Now this is some high end delusion.
The literal interpretation of both amounts to the same thing🤔.

A prince is a fairly common word used for the term "angel" as a sign of royalty in relation to God🤔.

As a matter of fact even fallen angels🤧, demons, were referred to as princes!!!

Hence simple reasoning suggests chief prince means the same thing as archangel 🤧.

And one of your favorite verses chops off your baseless argument with the simple phrase "one of" 🤔...

Except you conclude your "primus conventus" treatise with some astonishing logical truth and maneuvers - this being unlikely🙄 knowing how illogical you are 🤔- there's no logical reconciliation of the preeminence of " Michael "🤔 as it stands with the rest of scripture 🥲

Gabrielshow24:
The point you raised above is spot on!
I have indeed asked them a similar question myself🤔 whether or not Jesus was a fan? 🤨After all, one in a certain place records of him coming with a fan.

A question to this day, they have not provided an answer to!!!

Simple semantics will make you see that "coming with" doesn't equate you with that thing🤨.

Or by someone coming with phone, suddenly equates one to a phone🤔?

Another point, I enjoy is when you raised up the known fact that "Michael is one of the archangels🤨" something to this day, Max and his colleagues have failed to reconcile to the rest of scripture!!!

In some cases, you will find Max blabbing about "first set" 🤔.
When probed further, you will find his "first set" theory - primus conventus - rather implausible as its implications are rather unfortunate!!!

All, I can see is that some men had a preconceived notion of Christ being an Angel - A conclusion, from which they worked backwards to find corroborating premises, neglecting others that "do not fit".

There's little to no difference between them and Muslims, Muslims likewise read the bible from the lens of a preconceived conclusion!!!

Gbam!

You have summarized them at the bolded. Honestly, you nailed it even further by juxtaposing them with Muslims. I have always noticed these similarities. They will ignore all other Scriptures no matter how solid, and hold on to very few Scripture verses they have misinterpreted.

I have asked them many questions my brother. No single answer. Only a weak allusion to another Scripture somewhere already turned upside down by them. Few of the questions are here below:

1. Jesus is the Resurrection and the Life - Is an angel the resurrection and life of anyone? No answer.

2. Jesus is the Bread of Life, the very source of Life- Is an angel the source of your life? No answer.

3. Jesus is the Light Himself. All angels are called Angels of Light, not the Light- Does this make Jesus look like an angel to you? No answer.

4. In Revelation 1:17-18, Jesus referred to Himself as "I am the First and the Last, the One who lived and was dead, and is alive forevermore." If you say the person speaking here is God the Father, you're wrong because God the Father was never dead or resurrected. If you say the person speaking here is angel Michael,, you're wrong again because Angel Michael cannot be the First and the Last. The only conclusion here is that Jesus is the One who died and rose again, and if He's the First and Last, He's definitely God - Now, counter me. No response. Janosky kept barking Revelation 1:1. Maxindhouse feigned deaf and blind.

5. Hebrews 1:1-3 called Jesus the Brightness of God's Glory and the EXPRESS IMAGE OF HIS PERSON. If only they understand that God's Glory is God Himself. When Moses told God "I want to see you." God replied, "This is how you will see me. My Glory will pass before you..." Christ is God's Glory and Express Image. Does that sound like an angel to the JWs? Till today, they've kept mute about Hebrews 1:1-3 .

There are several other questions I have asked them to which they have not provided a single answer. No single answer except to be abusing people and be quoting words from a different verse they don't don't understand.

I hope Maxindhouse and the empty JW miscreant, Janosky will call themselves to order this time around and be men enough to answer the questions posed to them above.

MaxInDHouse:
chief prince is used for many angels

lost false jw mad max
yes "chief princes is used for many angels"
so michael is "one of the chief princes/chief angels",

that's what Christians have been saying:
Dan 10:13  "But the prince of the kingdom of Persia was withstanding me for twenty-one days; then behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left there with the kings of Persia.

false jw, your confused twisting didn't work for you there
1Co 14:33  For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints

GothamCities:
Just name another angel that the title 'chief prince 'was used for. Name one.
The Bible is not a book of angels. Michael is the angel over Israel, and that is why his name was specifically mentioned as an archangel, since the Bible is a book of God's dealings with Israel. The Angel specially told Daniel "There's no one that helps me in these things except Michael your prince..."
The Bible is not the only source for these things. Peter and Jude quoted from other sources not canonized in Nicea . These other sources mentioned some other archangels and their names.
The Bible never said there's only one archangel. That's your own interpolation. There is only one God and one Lord in heaven. Open your ears. On earth there are many gods and many lords. That's what that Scripture is telling you.
Lucifer was an archangel. He was a commander over a host. An archangel is simply a commander in God's host. Ignorance is not bliss.
Now, I'm discussing your points directly, puncturing the loopholes in you're submissions. Why are you shying away from discussing my points? Because there are no loopholes of course!

So there is no verse in support of many Archangels.
Thanks for your time!

Emusan:
So who was written there?
I've don't that.
Are you saying Jesus is not THE WORD?
I'm boldly saying Jesus is not MICHAEL

Have gotten a verse that explicitly says "Jesus is the word of God"?

Emusan:
Plenty
John 1:3
Heb 1:2, 17-18
Smile...Your Michael is a creature and without Jesus NOTHING was CREATED.
You can't deny any of those statements above!

So there's no verse that says Jesus created Michael or the Archangel shey?

Thanks!

MightySparrow:
The discourse that brought about Trinity did not have any pagan input. Non of the discussants were outside the church.
This is the lie JW peddled before I studied the discussants and their contributions. You don't need to tell lies to validate the truth.

The links are here:

https://www.scribd.com/document/477783606/The-pagan-origin-of-trinity

https://www.biblicalunitarian.com/articles/pagan-roots-of-the-trinity-doctrine-ed-torrence-2002

https://www.ucg.org/learn/bible-study-aids/god-trinity/god-trinity/how-ancient-trinitarian-gods-influenced-adoption

https://www.quora.com/Is-Trinity-a-pagan-concept-If-so-where-does-that-leave-Christianity

How about what the OP said about Jesus being the angel of the Lord?

Iwillbeback:
Why is Christ the angel of the Lord ?

Therefore in light of the three points above, the Angel of the Lord has to be Christ.

Thank you all for reading

cornelboy:
Achorladey 😹😹

Still showing evidence of you being a worst fool on nairaland

MaxInDHouse:
So there is no verse in support of many Archangels.
Thanks for your time!

Rather, there's no verse in support of Jesus being Michael. Thanks for your time.

MaxInDHouse:
TRINITY is a false doctrine!

Archangel Michael is the same person who came as Jesus. He is the WORD of God {John 1:1; Revelations 19:13} which means it's through him that all heavenly armies receives instructions from God.

He is the one standing for the salvation of obedient mankind and through his earthly mission many will gain everlasting life {Daniel 12:1} God has given him the authority to raise the dead {1Thessalonians 4:16} so with just a call all those in the memorial tomb will hear his voice and come out {John 5:28; Daniel 12:3 compare to John 11:43-44} all other loyal angels are reporting to him so they are called "his angels" Revelations 12:7 compare to Matthew 25:31

Satan is the head of all rebellious angels {Revelations 12:7} he deceived 1/3 of the angels to abandon their duties in heaven {Revelations 12:4} and they came to have sex with female humans {Genesis 6:1-2} he is one of the first sets of angels in heaven so Michael (Jesus) is waiting for orders from his father before destroying Satan and all other rebellious beings whether human or angels! Luke 19:27

Archangel was Pope in Jehovah's organization at one time