Why Is Christ The Angel Of The Lord ? - Christianity Etc (8)

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Re: Why Is Christ The Angel Of The Lord ? by MaxInDHouse(m): 6:48pm On Mar 08, 2025

Why is Christ the angel of the Lord?

1 Like

Re: Why Is Christ The Angel Of The Lord ? by achorladey: 6:55pm On Mar 08, 2025

MaxInDHouse:
Do you agree that without Michael nothing was created?

Opportunity to recycle your madness and insanities peddling brains. When Emusan even bold his answer to the question asked grin

2 Likes

Re: Why Is Christ The Angel Of The Lord ? by achorladey: 6:57pm On Mar 08, 2025

Emusan:
Now going in circles...

Were you blind?

I said NO! I DON'T AGREE.

Or this didn't answer your question

Do you agree that without Jesus NOTHING was CREATED?

Person wey you don hang his madness and insanities peddling brains tey tey. He can only recycle his question to make it look like you didn't answer it.

2 Likes

Re: Why Is Christ The Angel Of The Lord ? by MaxInDHouse(m): 7:03pm On Mar 08, 2025

Michael is the only archangel meaning the only begotten son of God among all other heavenly beings referred to as sons of God so he is the same as Jesus or the word of God! wink

Re: Why Is Christ The Angel Of The Lord ? by achorladey: 7:33pm On Mar 08, 2025

MaxInDHouse:
Do you agree that without Michael who is God's only begotten son nothing was created?

Digging himself into more problems, where in the Bible do you ever see Michael called God's only begotten Son? grin

Lies and manipulations must be spread at all cost.

3 Likes

Re: Why Is Christ The Angel Of The Lord ? by achorladey: 7:34pm On Mar 08, 2025

MaxInDHouse:
Michael is the only archangel meaning the only begotten son of God among all other heavenly beings referred to as sons of God so he is the same as Jesus or the word of God!

Now forcing his interpretation into bible by all means grin

Is the only Archangel meaning the only begotten son of God grin

1 Like

Re: Why Is Christ The Angel Of The Lord ? by johnw47: 11:15pm On Mar 08, 2025*

MaxInDHouse: Do you agree that without Michael nothing was created?

Emusan:
No!

correct, and very easy to answer

Emusan: Do you agree that without Jesus NOTHING was CREATED?

and to this plain and clear Jehovah's Truth, fearful mad max cannot answer

MaxinDHouse:
rev 21:8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

Jehovah says; without The Word/Jesus Christ nothing was created
false jw maxindhouse says; without michael nothing was created

but then, mad max also says; Jehovah doesn't know it all

no one is more puffed up than false jw mad max
Pro 16:5 Everyone who is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD;

mad max you are a abomination to Jehovah < fact

2 Likes

Re: Why Is Christ The Angel Of The Lord ? by johnw47: 6:04am On Mar 09, 2025

from Carm dot org

this not long, easy to read article is 5 posts

post 1.
Does 1 Thessalonians 4:16 prove that Jesus is Michael the Archangel?

Jehovah’s Witnesses teach that Jesus is Michael the Archangel, whom they claim was God’s first creation and the highest of all the “spirit creatures,” or angelic beings. To argue for this teaching, they point to 1 Thessalonians 4:16, which says:

“For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.”

While it is not immediately apparent to most readers how this verse could mean that Jesus is Michael the Archangel, their argument from this passage goes something like this:

1. Jesus’ voice is the voice of an archangel
2. Jesus, therefore, is an archangel
3. Michael is the only archangel
4. Therefore, Jesus is Michael
Each of these points has inherent flaws worth addressing.

Re: Why Is Christ The Angel Of The Lord ? by johnw47: 6:05am On Mar 09, 2025

post 2.
The voice of an archangel?

First, the most obvious reading is not necessarily that the “voice of an archangel” is Jesus’ own voice. It is merely one of several sounds said to accompany Jesus’ second coming. That a trumpet blowing and a voice crying out mark Jesus’ decent sounds more like the approach of a king who is being announced by a herald. The fact that Jesus is King is not in dispute. Even Jehovah’s Witnesses accept this. For a King to be coming with an archangel serving Him as His herald and for that King to be further announced by the blast of the “trumpet of God,” however, would seem to make Jesus someone much greater than Michael.

Re: Why Is Christ The Angel Of The Lord ? by johnw47: 6:06am On Mar 09, 2025

post 3.
Meaning and metaphor

Secondly, even if we accept that the “voice of an archangel” is meant to describe Jesus’ own voice, that would be a weird way of saying that Jesus is an archangel. If I were describing a man coming to greet me, I would not say that he “called out to me with the voice of a human being.” That would be awkward and entirely unhelpful. I might say that “his voice was that of a lion,” and you would get that he was speaking loudly, powerfully, boldly, perhaps even angrily. I might say that “he spoke with the voice of a nightingale,” and you would grasp that his voice was pleasant and his greeting was sweet to the ear. In neither of these examples, however, would you think that I was saying that the man literally was a lion or a nightingale. Such statements are clearly metaphors. I would not bother saying that a lion has the voice of a lion because that is obvious and useless. I would not say that a nightingale has the voice of a nightingale because that doesn’t say anything. Even if Paul was saying that Jesus will personally shout “with the voice of an archangel,” such a statement could only be a metaphor. Plus, think about what happens if you apply the Jehovah’s Witness logic consistently in this verse. If Jesus must be an archangel because His voice is the voice of an archangel, then He also must be God because His trumpet blast is the trumpet blast of God. Obviously, no Jehovah’s Witness would accept this logic as applied to the latter point, so why should they think it valid in the former? There is simply no logical way to read this passage as actually calling Jesus an archangel.

Re: Why Is Christ The Angel Of The Lord ? by johnw47: 6:06am On Mar 09, 2025

post 4.
Is Micheal the only archangel?

Thirdly, it is a big leap to get from “an archangel” to “Michael the Archangel.” Jehovah’s Witnesses try to bridge this gap by claiming that Michael is the only archangel. The case for this is rather weak, however. Many major English translations indeed render 1 Thessalonians 4:16 as reading “the voice of THE archangel” rather than “the voice of AN archangel.” In Greek, however, there is no article here, which is why even the Jehovah’s Witness’s “New World Translation” goes with “an archangel” here. Trustworthy translations like the ESV and NKJV also use “an archangel,” and others like the NASB put “the” in italics so that it is clear to the reader that the word is not in Greek. 1 Thessalonians itself gives us no reason to think that there is only one archangel. Jehovah’s Witnesses, therefore, turn elsewhere to try and prove this point, claiming:

“God’s word refers to Michael ‘the archangel.’ (Jude 9) This term means ‘chief angel.’ Notice that Michael is called the archangel. This suggests that there is only one such angel. In fact, the term ‘archangel’ occurs in the Bible only in the singular, never in the plural” (What Does the Bible Really Teach, pg. 218).

This is rather horrific logic, and I honestly can’t believe they even published it. Let’s try applying this same argument to another biblical figure:

“God’s word refers to Alexander “the coppersmith.” (2 Timothy 4:14) Notice that Alexander is called the coppersmith. This suggests that there is only one such tradesman. In fact, the term ‘coppersmith’ occurs in the Bible only in the singular, never in the plural.”

You could write the same paragraph about “Simon the Zealot” (Luke 6:15, Acts 1:13) and a host of others, and the conclusion is just as laughable. So, too, with “Michael the Archangel.” The argument is absurd. Simon being designated “the zealot” obviously was not meant to deny the existence of other zealots. Calling Alexander “the coppersmith” does not negate the obvious fact that there were many other coppersmiths. Labeling Michael “the archangel” has nothing to do with the number of archangels that exist. Daniel 10:13 calls Michael “one of the chief princes,” clearly indicating that there are other angels of his rank. In the ancient world, people often had descriptors attached to their names. Thus, in addition to “Simon the Zealot,” we also see names like “Simon the Leper” (Matthew 26:6), “Simon the Tanner” (Acts 10:32), and “Simon, who was called Peter” (Matthew 4:18). This was a normal convention for referring to people by name, and Michael was no exception. There is no reason to think that Michael is the only archangel.

Re: Why Is Christ The Angel Of The Lord ? by johnw47: 6:07am On Mar 09, 2025

post 5.
Is Jesus Michael the Archangel?

Fourthly and finally, since all of the premises of the Jehovah’s Witness’s argument are wrong, there is no basis for their conclusion. The reality is that Jesus is not a created being, not even the most exalted created being. Rather:

“All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being” (John 1:3).

and:

“You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the works of Your hands; They will perish, but You remain, And they all will become old like a garment, And like a mantle You will roll them up; Like a garment they will also be changed. But You are the same, And Your years will not come to an end” (Hebrews 1:10-12).

No, Jesus is not Michael the Archangel. Jesus is Michael’s Lord and Maker. This is why an archangel will be Jesus’ herald and why the trumpet of God announces His coming.

end of this article.

Re: Why Is Christ The Angel Of The Lord ? by MaxInDHouse(m): 8:20am On Mar 09, 2025

Jesus claimed he is the only begotten son of God {John 3:16} but in heaven God has many spirit sons Bible called them "morning stars" {Job 38:7} Jesus also claim he is the "bright morning star" {Revelations 22:16} among all the angels in heaven only one is called "Archangel" {Jude 9} which means he is unique among the angels and from Genesis to Revelation Michael is the only angel who doesn't deal directly with humans rather whenever his name is mentioned it's always in connection with other angels as one giving orders {Revelations 12:7} or coming to rescue another angel {Daniel 10:13} Jesus claimed that all the angels are under his command {Matthew 16:27; 25:31} but in the Bible book of Revelations Satan is also said to have his own angels {Revelations 12:7} Michael has always been the angel standing for the salvation or redemption of God's people {Daniel 12:1} and he will be the one to call all the dead back to life {1Thessalonians 4:16 compare to Daniel 12:2} Jesus referred to himself as if another person {John 5:28-29} because the voice that has power to raise the dead is given only to the archangel {1Thessalonians 4:16} which Jesus displayed when he walked the earth {John 11:41-43} there has always been an angel who often represents God called "angel of the Lord" {Exodus 13:21; 14:19} this means that among the angels in heaven called "morning stars" {Job 38:7} one is single out as the "bright morning star" {Revelations 22:16} the archangel {Jude 9} and angel of the Lord {Exodus 14:19} who is standing for the salvation of God's people. Daniel 12:1

After thorough research Bible scholars can't help it but to conclude that Jesus is the angel of the Lord while some are of the opinion that Jesus must be Michael the archangel some who are of the Trinitarian doctrine found it really hard to agree that one person of their Trinity God (Jesus) is the same as Michael the archangel so they have to hang between the two opinions because there is overwhelming evidence that no other person has represented God as saviour better than Jesus and that an angel was portrayed as one always representing God for the salvation of God's people! Daniel 12:1; Exodus 14:19

So the question OP is asking:
"Why is Christ the angel of the Lord?"

Is simple:
Only Jesus can save like his father and if any other person is mentioned among heavenly beings as a saviour apart from God the Almighty such one must be our Jesus in his prehuman existence!

1 Like

Re: Why Is Christ The Angel Of The Lord ? by achorladey: 9:16am On Mar 09, 2025

johnw47:
correct, and very easy to answer

and to this plain and clear Jehovah's Truth, fearful mad max cannot answer

MaxinDHouse:
rev 21:8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

Jehovah says; without The Word/Jesus Christ nothing was created
false jw maxindhouse says; without michael nothing was created

but then, mad max also says; Jehovah doesn't know it all

no one is more puffed up than false jw mad max
Pro 16:5 Everyone who is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD;

mad max you are a abomination to Jehovah < fact

He will readily say others are dishonest. A look at the conversation below will clearly show how their beliefs when based on assumptions needs to be backed up with dishonesty.

MaxInDHouse: Do you agree that without Michael nothing was created?

Emusan: No!

Johnw47: Correct, and very easy to answer

Emusan: Do you agree that without Jesus NOTHING was CREATED?

Johnw47: and to this plain and clear Jehovah's Truth, fearful mad max cannot answer

Achorladey: For MaxInDHouse to answer he has to bring in the assumption that Michael = Archangel = Jesus. In reality without Jesus NOTHING was CREATED scripturally backed up but MaxInDHouse cannot support what is directly backed up scripturally because he has to introduce assumptions and support it with dishonesty to make others accept it as truth cheesy

That's what cornelboy boy relish as deep reasoning as one of the committee of worst fools on nairaland cheesy

2 Likes

Re: Why Is Christ The Angel Of The Lord ? by johnw47: 10:08am On Mar 09, 2025*

achorladey:
He will readily say others are dishonest. A look at the conversation below will clearly show how their beliefs when based on assumptions needs to be backed up with dishonesty.

MaxInDHouse: Do you agree that without Michael nothing was created?

Emusan: No!

Johnw47: Correct, and very easy to answer

Emusan: Do you agree that without Jesus NOTHING was CREATED?

Johnw47: and to this plain and clear Jehovah's Truth, fearful mad max cannot answer

Achorladey: For MaxInDHouse to answer he has to bring in the assumption that Michael = Archangel = Jesus. In reality without Jesus NOTHING was CREATED scripturally backed up but MaxInDHouse cannot support what is directly backed up scripturally because he has to introduce assumptions and support it with dishonesty to make others accept it as truth

That's what cornelboy boy relish as deep reasoning as one of the committee of worst fools on nairaland

yes, they r fools full of confused babbel:
1Co 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints

2 Likes

Re: Why Is Christ The Angel Of The Lord ? by Emusan(m): 4:10pm On Mar 09, 2025

MaxInDHouse:
Do you agree that without Michael nothing was created?

No! I don't.

Do you agree that without Jesus NOTHING was CREATED?

At least, it's settled that Micheal is a creature

Re: Why Is Christ The Angel Of The Lord ? by Emusan(m): 4:11pm On Mar 09, 2025

achorladey:
Person wey you don hang his madness and insanities peddling brains tey tey. He can only recycle his question to make it look like you didn't answer it.

That is why he kept going in circles...

1 Like

Re: Why Is Christ The Angel Of The Lord ? by MaxInDHouse(m): 6:07pm On Mar 09, 2025

Emusan:
No! I don't.
Do you agree that without Jesus NOTHING was CREATED?
At least, it's settled that Micheal is a creature

Do you agree that without Michael there is nothing created?

1 Like 1 Share

Re: Why Is Christ The Angel Of The Lord ? by MaxInDHouse(m): 6:13pm On Mar 09, 2025*

Emusan:
That is why he kept going in circles...

If you want a mature discussion you have to first respect the other person's beliefs no matter what you think but when you feel like insulting and abusing someone for engaging you in scriptural discussions then i will turn a deaf ear to whatever you are saying yet continue quoting you in return without giving you a meaningful response.

Now do you agree that the name "JESUS" was given to the WORD when he became human?
If you agree then what was his prehuman name?

Re: Why Is Christ The Angel Of The Lord ? by Emusan(m): 6:49pm On Mar 09, 2025

MaxInDHouse:
If you want a mature discussion you have to first respect the other person's beliefs no matter what you think

Show me where I disrespected what you believe first on this thread.

but when you feel like insulting and abusing someone for engaging you in scriptural discussions then i will turn a deaf ear to whatever you are saying yet continue quoting you in return without giving you a meaningful response.

First of all, show where I Emusan INSULTED AND ABUSED you during our discussion on this thread.

I can show you how your so called brothers INSULTED AND ABUSED people on this same thread which doesn't bother you.

You don't have meaningful responses in the first place that's why you keep recycling your question as if it was never answered.

Just open up that you are scared to answer my simple question.

Now do you agree that the name "JESUS" was given to the WORD when he became human?

YES! The Name Jesus was given to the "The Word"

If you agree the what was his prehuman name?

His prehuman name is THE WORD, THE LIFE

Now, do you agree without Jesus NOTHING was CREATED?

1 Like

Re: Why Is Christ The Angel Of The Lord ? by MaxInDHouse(m): 7:01pm On Mar 09, 2025

Emusan:
You don't have meaningful responses in the first place.

So why bother yourself then?

Re: Why Is Christ The Angel Of The Lord ? by Emusan(m): 7:17pm On Mar 09, 2025

MaxInDHouse:
So why bother yourself then?

You're the one bothering yourself by going round in cycle.

He can't provide where I disrespected his beliefs

He can't provide where I INSULTED & ABUSED

He wants to chicken out, I understand!

2 Likes

Re: Why Is Christ The Angel Of The Lord ? by MaxInDHouse(m): 7:26pm On Mar 09, 2025

Emusan:
You're the one bothering yourself by going round in cycle. He can't provide where I disrespected his beliefs. He can't provide where I INSULTED & ABUSED
He wants to chicken out, I understand!

It's OK do enjoy the rest of the day!

Re: Why Is Christ The Angel Of The Lord ? by Emusan(m): 7:33pm On Mar 09, 2025

MaxInDHouse:
It's OK do enjoy the rest of the day!

Re: Why Is Christ The Angel Of The Lord ? by MaxInDHouse(m): 7:36pm On Mar 09, 2025

Emusan:

Re: Why Is Christ The Angel Of The Lord ? by johnw47: 10:14pm On Mar 09, 2025*

^^ false jw's often don't have honest replies, just silly picture

Christians can agree that without Jesus nothing was CREATED, but false jw mad max
cannot agree or disagree, such is the fear of false jw's and the falseness of their beliefs

Christians can of course say no to the question: do you agree that without michael nothing was CREATED

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
Pro 14:5 A trustworthy witness will not lie, But a false witness utters lies.
rev 21:8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

1 Like

Re: Why Is Christ The Angel Of The Lord ? by johnw47: 11:05pm On Mar 09, 2025

Christians murdered in Syria
The Christian Patriarchs of Syria have released a joint statement after Christian homes, with men, women and children were violently attacked and murdered

1 Like

Re: Why Is Christ The Angel Of The Lord ? by johnw47: 11:08am On Mar 10, 2025

2Pe_2:1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.

denying the master, sound familiar?: lost false jw mad max cannot agree that; "without Jesus nothing was CREATED"

Jehovah's word makes it very clear that; "without Jesus nothing was CREATED"
but mad max cannot agree with that, denying the Lord Jesus Christ:

Mat_10:33 "But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.
1Jn_2:23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.

he goes even further than that, mad max puts forth; "without michael nothing was CREATED"
which Jehovah never said:

2Pe 3:16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Jas_1:8 being a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.

2Pe 2:1, bringing swift destruction upon themselves:
2Pe 3:16, to their own destruction:
= Rev_20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire

1 Like

Re: Why Is Christ The Angel Of The Lord ? by johnw47: 10:38pm On Mar 10, 2025

Christians are being CRUCIFIED by Muslim terrorists in Syria.

Re: Why Is Christ The Angel Of The Lord ? by johnw47: 10:55pm On Mar 10, 2025

The Syrian Defense Minister has issued an order prohibiting his fighters from taking photos and videos of the murders they commit.

Re: Why Is Christ The Angel Of The Lord ? by johnw47: 1:20am On Mar 12, 2025

MaxInDHouse:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. Revelations 19:13
The name "JESUS" is not mentioned in either of the two verses nah?
What i asked you is a verse that says in plain words "Jesus is the word of God"

cornelboy: Nice nice

lost false jw's cornyboy and mad max
why do you need a specific sentence saying; "Jesus is the word of God"
Jehovah makes it very clear that; the Word became flesh and was named Jesus

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Mat 1:21 "She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins."

blinded false jw's:
2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them

Rev_20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire

1 Like

Re: Why Is Christ The Angel Of The Lord ? by johnw47: 1:28am On Mar 12, 2025

cornelboy:
That why i always ask them what was Jesus identity before coming to earth.
It was when he came to earth he got the name "Jesus".
So what was his name before then?

lost false jw cornyboy

before becoming man Jesus name was; "The Word of God", "The Word" for short
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, ....
Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us,
Mat 1:21 "She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins."

^^ so these are talking of "The Word/Jesus Christ', not michael

and when Jesus returned to heaven, His name is again; "The Word of God"
Rev 19:13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

cornelboy: The word God is more like a common noun and not a particular name for anybody.
Hope you're learning

puffed up lost false jw cornyboy
that's just another lie u false jw made up in your head, oh know nothing

Rev 19:13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

cornyboy you habitual liars are of the devil:
Joh 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. WHENEVER HE SPEAKS A LIE, THAT IS HIS NATURAL WAY OF SPEAKING, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Rev_20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire

1 Like

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