₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse:
If it's not a competition you supposed to face your God while i face mine after all my God differ from yours and there is freedom of speech, expression and worship so instead of quoting each other we can easily go our separate ways but if you continue quoting me then don't tell me not to quote you o!

yes I know but there are people that your words from the pit of hell can deceive. After all, that is how master work to deceive people. So I have to tell people the truth

delkuf:
yes I know but there are people that your words from the pit of hell can deceive. After all, that is how master work to deceive people. So I have to tell people the truth

Perhaps you don't know that you're a worshiper of Satan from my perspective too but i believe in the word of God which says:

You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free. John 8:32

So unlike Pharisees and Sadducees back in the first century who were going about disturbing true Christians from talking to people why not present your message and let them choose which is true?
Because to me you're a Satanist but i kept calm as a true believer! 1Peter 3:15

if your elder brother gift you a clothes, the fact that the cloth was gifted you does not mean you should not wash and iron it. if you dont wash and iron it, the cloth will become dirty and will not be presentable before men, the germs from the cloth will also contaminated your body and put your health in danger.

MaxInDHouse:
People gets paid for a job well done so if you do a good job and your employer is happy he rewards you handsomely so let's say we served God throughout our life for 100 years if He is to reward us regarding the service rendered it should be 100-500 years reward but God doesn't reward people who served Him that is for those who showed love or care for His servants (worshipers) He can make such ones super rich or live longer than expected as a pay back for the favour they showed to his servants! Matthew 10:40-42
For His worshipers God GIVES them an award which nobody can get from Him except His loyal worshipers that's why Paul said:

For the WAGES sin PAYS is death, but the GIFT God gives is EVERLASTING LIFE by Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

This means all evildoers will be paid what they deserves which is DEATH but as for God's own worshipers He doesn't pay them but awards them.

Many unbelievers and evildoers have done good to God's people one way or another in the past so they will surely be rewarded for any good they do to God's people no matter how small it is but for being unbelievers or evildoers they will get what they deserves which is death!

Evildoers receive no reward, for they cannot produce good. Just as light and darkness cannot come from the same source, neither can good and evil.

However, I am certain that God rewards those who serve Him wholeheartedly, as the Bible affirms. Salvation is not among these rewards, for it is a free gift from God.

According to Scripture, God promises various rewards for faithfulness, obedience, and service. Among these are different crowns given to believers:

The Crown of Life (James 1:12, Revelation 2:10) – for those who endure trials and remain faithful.

The Incorruptible Crown (1 Corinthians 9:25) – for those who practice self-discipline in their Christian walk.

The Crown of Righteousness (2 Timothy 4: – for those who long for Christ’s return and live righteously.

The Crown of Glory (1 Peter 5:4) – for those who shepherd and care for God’s people.

The Crown of Rejoicing (1 Thessalonians 2:19) – often called the "soul winner’s crown," given to those who lead others to Christ.


These rewards reflect God’s justice and His desire to honor those who faithfully serve Him.

Thankgod89:
If the Holy Spirit has revealed to you that salvation is a reward, who am I to question your claim? However, the Scriptures are clear, and I believe there is no hidden interpretation. One principle I always uphold in biblical discussions is to never say what the Bible does not say.

Your explanation is incorrect, yet you continue to insist that you are right.

Here are my points from Mark 10:17-27: The man walked away sorrowful, revealing that his attachment to wealth was greater than his desire for eternal life. This emphasizes that salvation is not merely about external obedience but about full surrender to Christ.

Now, consider the disciples’ reaction and Jesus’ response in verses 26-27:

"[26] And they were astonished beyond measure, saying among themselves, ‘Who then can be saved?’ [27] But Jesus, looking at them, said, ‘With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.’"

If salvation were simply a reward for good works or obedience, why didn’t Jesus say so? Instead, He declared that salvation is impossible for man to attain on his own. This proves that salvation is not something we earn—it is only possible with God’s help because it is a free gift.

"If the Holy Spirit has revealed to you that salvation is a reward, who am I to question your claim?"

Who made the claim 🙄

You believe there is no hidden interpretation.

Did I tell you I was giving you a hidden interpretation?

One principle you always uphold in biblical discussions is to never say what the Bible does not say.

If you want to justify yourself continue but instead of praising yourself you should have just shown what the bible says.

Do you think my words are about me insisting I am right, are the words about me? Is this a discuss to prove who is right? If so then it's okay I am wrong believe whatever you want.

You claimed my explanation is incorrect without showing how or why it is incorrect. Look my response is not because of whatever opinion you want to have about me. 😆

Did I tell you that salvation is devoid of God's help. Let me use your own words, that salvation is impossible for man to attain on his own. Why didn't you write that Jesus said Salvation is given completely by God and not that man needs God's help to obey Him.

So Jesus reveals we need God's help but here you are claiming that it is completely free from God. Then why didn't Jesus tell that to the rich man, why did he comment the apostles who left all and followed him?

Go back and read my responses again, because it feels like I am responding to a child that feels they want to be right rather than understand the truth.

You are asking like I haven't told you that Jesus repeated taught salvation and eternal life as a reward.

You can still go ahead and call these verses my claiming to be right

Matt.10.22 And everyone will hate you because of your allegiance to me. But those who endure to the end will be saved.

Matt.24.12-13 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Matt.25.34 - 36
Then the King will say to those on the right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home.
I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me.'

Luke.10.25-28
On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?" "What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?" He answered: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" "You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live."

John.5.24 "I assure you, those who listen to my message and believe in God who sent me have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.

John.12.50 And I know his instructions lead to eternal life; so I say whatever the Father tells me to say!"

MaxInDHouse:
Perhaps you don't know that you're a worshiper of Satan from my perspective too but i believe in the word of God which says:

You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free. John 8:32

So unlike Pharisees and Sadducees back in the first century who were going about disturbing true Christians from talking to people why not present your message and let them choose which is true?
Because to me you're a Satanist but i kept calm as a true believer! 1Peter 3:15

I can see demonic spirit are panicking because am doing the right thing. Thank you Father

delkuf:
I can see demonic spirit are panicking because am doing the right thing. Thank you Father.

OK nah!
Jesus commands you ignore so your real father is the Devil if you don't know.

True Christians are to go about doing the work Jesus assigned to them calmly and peacefully not going after other religions calling them names:

“Look! I am sending you out as sheep among wolves; so prove yourselves cautious as serpents and yet innocent as doves." Matthew 10:16

That's what his disciples are doing:

Sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always ready to make a defense before everyone who demands of you a reason for the hope you have, but doing so with a mild temper and deep respect. 1Peter 3:15

But what about Satanists?
They are the ones following believers up and down saying they should not talk:

With that they called them and ordered them not to say anything at all or to teach on the basis of the name of Jesus. Act 4:18

“We strictly ordered you not to keep teaching on the basis of this name, and yet look! you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching, and you are determined to bring the blood of this man upon us" Act 5:28

But the Jews incited the prominent women who were God-fearing and the principal men of the city, and they stirred up persecution against Paul and Barʹna·bas and threw them outside their boundaries. Act 13:50


But the Jews who did not believe stirred up and wrongly influenced the people of the nations against the brothers. Act 14:2

But Jews arrived from Antioch and I·coʹni·um and persuaded the crowds, and they stoned Paul and dragged him outside the city, imagining that he was dead. Act 14:19

True believers go about their assigned duties peacefully without disturbing any group:

If possible, as far as it depends on you, be peaceable with all men. Romans 2:18

That's what these people noticed in me:

Nnamdipapa:
Max, do not descend to the levels of these people, and never let them get to you. I have noticed your interactions on NL for years and I see emotional maturity and the way you carry yourself, I have yet to see in the average Pentecostal Christian.

Kingsempires:
I know you and I don't agree on the same christain doctrine but I grab point in some of your preaching
I learned something on this your comment

SeniorMan715:
The way you explain and answer questions, sometimes i wonder if truly you are a human or an angel. You know everything.

Questionnaires:
MAXINDHOUSE is The Only Reasonable Christian That I've Come Across On This Forum That Creates Discourse And Debates Without Trying To Hurt The Emotions of Others No Matter How They Don't Agree With His Philosophy.

No be by mouth na FRUIT Jesus talk sey right thinking individuals go see! Matthew 7:16-18

gohf:
"If the Holy Spirit has revealed to you that salvation is a reward, who am I to question your claim?"

Who made the claim 🙄

You believe there is no hidden interpretation.

Did I tell you I was giving you a hidden interpretation?

One principle you always uphold in biblical discussions is to never say what the Bible does not say.

If you want to justify yourself continue but instead of praising yourself you should have just shown what the bible says.

Do you think my words are about me insisting I am right, are the words about me? Is this a discuss to prove who is right? If so then it's okay I am wrong believe whatever you want.

You claimed my explanation is incorrect without showing how or why it is incorrect. Look my response is not because of whatever opinion you want to have about me. 😆

Did I tell you that salvation is devoid of God's help. Let me use your own words, that salvation is impossible for man to attain on his own. Why didn't you write that Jesus said Salvation is given completely by God and not that man needs God's help to obey Him.

So Jesus reveals we need God's help but here you are claiming that it is completely free from God. Then why didn't Jesus tell that to the rich man, why did he comment the apostles who left all and followed him?

Go back and read my responses again, because it feels like I am responding to a child that feels they want to be right rather than understand the truth.

You are asking like I haven't told you that Jesus repeated taught salvation and eternal life as a reward.

You can still go ahead and call these verses my claiming to be right

Matt.10.22 And everyone will hate you because of your allegiance to me. But those who endure to the end will be saved.

Matt.24.12-13 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Matt.25.34 - 36
Then the King will say to those on the right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home.
I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me.'

Luke.10.25-28
On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?" "What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?" He answered: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" "You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live."

John.5.24 "I assure you, those who listen to my message and believe in God who sent me have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.

John.12.50 And I know his instructions lead to eternal life; so I say whatever the Father tells me to say!"

you quoted Mark 10:17-27 and say that Jesus was exposing his heart by telling him the truth, it is either you didn't read the text and study it with the Holy Spirit and you are writing out what men have taught you.
So according to your response, if I haven’t studied with the Holy Spirit, then you have? That would mean you're claiming that the Spirit has revealed to you that salvation is a reward.

I’m not here to prove that I know more than anyone else. This isn’t about who is right or wrong but about what the Scripture truly says.

Also, you made an unnecessary jab, as if we were debating political issues. What was the reason for saying, "because it feels like I am responding to a child that feels they want to be right rather than understand the truth"? That statement was completely out of line.

The verses you quoted do not indicate that salvation is a reward. While there are rewards in heaven, salvation itself is not one of them.

For example, in Matthew 24:13, when Jesus says, "he who stands firm to the end will be saved," He is not contradicting salvation by grace. Rather, He is emphasizing that genuine believers will remain steadfast in their faith despite trials and temptations.

Jesus' statement encourages faithful perseverance—not as a way to earn salvation, but as a reflection of true, living faith. Those who truly belong to Christ will remain firm, not by their own strength, but because God sustains them.

As a matter of fact, Jesus was speaking about the end times, warning His disciples that as wickedness increases, many people's love for God will "grow cold."

This does not mean that true believers will lose their salvation. Rather, it means that many will fall away, revealing that their faith was never genuine.

Take note of this, 1 John 2:19 1 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

The fact that we're currently doing a series "saved by grace" in church...this thread is interesting

Thankgod89:
you quoted Mark 10:17-27 and say that Jesus was exposing his heart by telling him the truth, it is either you didn't read the text and study it with the Holy Spirit and you are writing out what men have taught you.
So according to your response, if I haven’t studied with the Holy Spirit, then you have? That would mean you're claiming that the Spirit has revealed to you that salvation is a reward.

I’m not here to prove that I know more than anyone else. This isn’t about who is right or wrong but about what the Scripture truly says.

Also, you made an unnecessary jab, as if we were debating political issues. What was the reason for saying, "because it feels like I am responding to a child that feels they want to be right rather than understand the truth"? That statement was completely out of line.

The verses you quoted do not indicate that salvation is a reward. While there are rewards in heaven, salvation itself is not one of them.

For example, in Matthew 24:13, when Jesus says, "he who stands firm to the end will be saved," He is not contradicting salvation by grace. Rather, He is emphasizing that genuine believers will remain steadfast in their faith despite trials and temptations.

Jesus' statement encourages faithful perseverance—not as a way to earn salvation, but as a reflection of true, living faith. Those who truly belong to Christ will remain firm, not by their own strength, but because God sustains them.

As a matter of fact, Jesus was speaking about the end times, warning His disciples that as wickedness increases, many people's love for God will "grow cold."

This does not mean that true believers will lose their salvation. Rather, it means that many will fall away, revealing that their faith was never genuine.

Take note of this, 1 John 2:19 1 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

lol, say whatever you want. This response is not for your sake

Luke.9.62 But Jesus said to him, "No one, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God."

1John.2.17 And this world is fading away, along with everything it craves. But if you do the will of God, you will live forever.
1John.2.20 - 25
But you are not like that, for the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and all of you know the truth. So I am writing to you not because you don't know the truth but because you know the difference between truth and falsehood... So you must remain faithful to what you have been taught from the beginning. If you do, you will continue to live in fellowship with the Son and with the Father. And this is the promise that He has promised us--eternal life.

delkuf:
@gohf salvation is not a reward oooooo. Did you worked for it. It is a gift. Something we did not work for. We are not rewarded with salvation.

don't obey God and work for him na, since he has dashed you salvation already. Don't worry you don't even need to be fruitful ba... continue.

steveodo:
if your elder brother gift you a clothes, the fact that the cloth was gifted you does not mean you should not wash and iron it. if you dont wash and iron it, the cloth will become dirty and will not be presentable before men, the germs from the cloth will also contaminated your body and put your health in danger.

so you think salvation are like clothes that can get dirty and grow old 🙄

gohf:
don't obey God and work for him na, since he has dashed you salvation already. Don't worry you don't even need to be fruitful ba... continue.

the man that was crucified with Jesus did he obeyed God in any way. Did he lived a righteous life but Jesus said today you will be with me in paradise. So my brother Salvation is a gift. If you are talking of faith. Faith need to be worked out. But not salvation

delkuf:
the man that was crucified with Jesus did he obeyed God in any way.

YES he did!
If you don't know something ask!

ShawttySoFyne:
The fact that we're currently doing a series "saved by grace" in church...this thread is interesting

😊 hope you learn, ask, contribute and bless us

delkuf:
the man that was crucified with Jesus did he obeyed God in any way. Did he lived a righteous life but Jesus said today you will be with me in paradise. So my brother Salvation is a gift. If you are talking of faith. Faith need to be worked out. But not salvation

the gospel: repent for the kingdom of God is at hand

Did he repent or not?

You work out faith 🙄 so you get faith by working for it 🤦

gohf:
the gospel: repent for the kingdom of God is at hand

Did he repent or not?

You work out faith 🙄 so you get faith by working for it 🤦

faith is worked out no doubts but salvation is a gift.

He didn't repent that was why it is gift.

MaxInDHouse:
YES he did!
If you don't know something ask!

how did he obey you that know. Tell us how

delkuf:
faith is worked out no doubts but salvation is a gift.
He didn't repent that was why it is gift.

delkuf:
how did he obey you that know. Tell us how

The more i read your comments the more your folly is exposed.
So if he didn't repent then on what ground was he given the gift God promised only those that repents?

Ọmọ you don't know anything yet you want to argue.

That guy was a criminal who doesn't feel the Christ is coming to save Israel again after so much waiting but at the point of death the words of his partner in crime revived him:

“You are the Christ, are you not? Save yourself and us too!” Luke 23:39

That quickly ran through the mind of the other guy. If Jesus is called the Christ by most people but he's now dying beside them who are criminals surely Jesus is truly the Christ:

Because he poured out his life even to death And was counted among the transgressors; He carried the sin of many people, And he interceded for the transgressors. Isaiah 53:12

So Jesus has the power to break free but he didn't, surely he is ready to sacrifice his life for many people according to the scriptures!

That's why he said to his cohort in crime:

“Do you not fear God at all, now that you have received the same judgment? And we rightly so, for we are getting back what we deserve for the things we did; but this man did nothing wrong.” Luke 23:40-41

Turning to Jesus:

 Then he said: “Jesus, remember me when you get into your Kingdom.” Luke 23:42

This statement means he as accepted Jesus as the Messiah and king of God's promised Kingdom. That's what all sinners need to do!

So Jesus can't deny this guy what all repentant sinners deserve!


“Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise" Luke 23:43

Now answer the question:

Has this thief REPENTED of his sins or not?

MaxInDHouse:
The more i read your comments the more your folly is exposed.
So if he didn't repent then on what ground was he given the gift God promised only those that repents?

Ọmọ you don't know anything yet you want to argue.

That guy was a criminal who doesn't feel the Christ is coming to save Israel again after so much waiting but at the point of death the words of his partner in crime revived him:

“You are the Christ, are you not? Save yourself and us too!” Luke 23:39

That quickly ran through the mind of the other guy. If Jesus is called the Christ by most people but he's now dying beside them who are criminals surely Jesus is truly the Christ:

Because he poured out his life even to death And was counted among the transgressors; He carried the sin of many people, And he interceded for the transgressors. Isaiah 53:12

So Jesus has the power to break free but he didn't, surely he is ready to sacrifice his life for many people according to the scriptures!

That's why he said to his cohort in crime:

“Do you not fear God at all, now that you have received the same judgment? And we rightly so, for we are getting back what we deserve for the things we did; but this man did nothing wrong.” Luke 23:40-41

Turning to Jesus:

 Then he said: “Jesus, remember me when you get into your Kingdom.” Luke 23:42

This statement means he as accepted Jesus as the Messiah and king of God's promised Kingdom. That's what all sinners need to do!

So Jesus can't deny this guy what all repentant sinners deserve!


“Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise" Luke 23:43

Now answer the question:

Has this thief REPENTED of his sins or not?

that quickly ran through his mind. See as you talking as if you were in his mind.
Because he said remember me when you get to your kingdom means he has accepted Christ.
Well I don't want to argue with you. Ok ooooooo

delkuf:
that quickly ran through his mind. See as you talking as if you were in his mind.
Because he said remember me when you get to your kingdom means he has accepted Christ.
Well I don't want to argue with you. Ok ooooooo

Guy argue!
If you love God this is the time to argue not just following faithless miscreants to criticize Jehovah's Witnesses.

Those thieves were Jews who have been taught by their religious leaders many of the prophecies having to do with the Christ {Matthew 23:2-3} so what i quoted is exactly what any Jew of his time could remember and due to his good heart condition he was able to sum it up and decided wisely!

Ask questions! argue! now is your chance of gaining wisdom not just following faithless people antagonizing God's people:

“You must not spread a report that is not true. Do not cooperate with a wicked one by becoming a malicious witness. You must not follow after the crowd to do evil, and you must not pervert justice by giving testimony to go along with the crowd" Exodus 23:1-2

gohf:
lol, say whatever you want. This response is not for your sake

Luke.9.62 But Jesus said to him, "No one, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God."

1John.2.17 And this world is fading away, along with everything it craves. But if you do the will of God, you will live forever.
1John.2.20 - 25
But you are not like that, for the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and all of you know the truth. So I am writing to you not because you don't know the truth but because you know the difference between truth and falsehood... So you must remain faithful to what you have been taught from the beginning. If you do, you will continue to live in fellowship with the Son and with the Father. And this is the promise that He has promised us--eternal life.

The scripture is clear, and I see no reason to disagree because God is not the author of confusion. The Bible teaches that salvation is a free gift from God (Ephesians 2:8-9), yet it also calls believers to faithfulness and perseverance. The verses you mentioned emphasize the responsibility of the believer after receiving salvation. This is how it goes:

1. Luke 9:62 – Jesus says, “No one, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.”

It highlights the cost of discipleship. Once a person commits to following Jesus, they must not turn back to their old ways.
It does not mean salvation is earned, but it warns against half-hearted commitment. True believers will persevere in faith.

2. 1 John 2:17 – “But if you do the will of God, you will live forever.”

This does not contradict free salvation. Instead, it shows that true faith produces obedience (James 2:17).
Those who are truly saved will desire to do God's will, proving their faith is genuine.

3. 1 John 2:20-25 – “You must remain faithful to what you have been taught.”

This encourages believers to persevere in their faith and not be led astray by false teachings.
The promise of eternal life is for those who continue in the faith—not because they earn salvation, but because perseverance is a mark perseverance is a mark of true believers.


Salvation is God's gift of grace, received through faith in Jesus Christ. It is not earned by good works but brings transformation, leading believers to follow God’s will and remain faithful to Him. True salvation produces a life of obedience and perseverance.

Good night!

MaxInDHouse:
That's why he said to his cohort in crime:

“Do you not fear God at all, now that you have received the same judgment? And we rightly so, for we are getting back what we deserve for the things we did; but this man did nothing wrong.” Luke 23:40-41

Turning to Jesus:

 Then he said: “Jesus, remember me when you get into your Kingdom.” Luke 23:42

This is a powerful example of salvation by grace through faith, not by works. Even in his final moments, the criminal’s sincere repentance and trust in Jesus granted him eternal life.

The thief on the cross was saved because of his faith in Jesus, not just because he felt remorse.

His repentance was necessary—it showed that he recognized his sin and his need for mercy. But what saved him was that he put his trust in Jesus as the King and Savior. Jesus didn’t say, “Because you are remorseful, you will be with me in paradise.” Instead, He responded to the man’s faith: “Today you will be with me in paradise.”

This shows that salvation comes through faith alone, by grace alone, not as a reward for anything we do—even repentance itself. However, true faith always includes repentance, because when we believe in Christ, we turn away from sin.

delkuf:
the man that was crucified with Jesus did he obeyed God in any way. Did he lived a righteous life but Jesus said today you will be with me in paradise. So my brother Salvation is a gift. If you are talking of faith. Faith need to be worked out. But not salvation

I don’t fully understand the man, but based on everything Scripture says, I have never seen salvation described as a reward. Maybe they don’t realize that Jesus is our salvation.

Salvation is not just a concept or a reward—it is found in a person, and that person is Jesus Christ.

Jesus is Our Salvation

1. Luke 2:30 – Simeon, when holding baby Jesus, declared: “For my eyes have seen Your salvation.”

He recognized that salvation is Jesus Himself, not just something Jesus gives.

2. Acts 4:12 – “Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”

Salvation is in Jesus alone—He is the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6).

3. John 3:16 – “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.”

Salvation is not just escaping hell—it is entering into a relationship with Jesus, who is life itself.

delkuf:
faith is worked out no doubts but salvation is a gift.

He didn't repent that was why it is gift.

not surprised it is you writing this, you are stubborn to a fault even when your mistakes are pointed out you don't admit them nor turn away from them. So how would you even understand what repentance is

But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.” Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom. ” Luke 23: 40 - 42

At times we just need to ignore those who want to argue and win, because they would go to the extent of saying and changing the meaning of what is written.

Philippians 2:12 from the Greek text Paul clearly teaches us to obey God always and achieve salvation, "soterian katergazesthe"

In Ephesians 2, Paul writes For grace saves (verb) you, through faith which is not from yourselves, because it is not from our works but is the gift of God.

When John writes 1John.2.17 And this world is fading away, along with everything it craves. But if you do the will of God, you will live forever.

And someone tells you "This does not contradict free salvation. Instead, it shows that true faith produces obedience"

You don't need to ask them how? Because they will only say a bunch of good sounding words with one motive, "I am right listen to me". You will understand nothing and only end up confused.

Take for instance
"The scripture is clear, and I see no reason to disagree because God is not the author of confusion. The Bible teaches that salvation is a free gift from God"


Where are the clear scriptures that clearly say I have to do nothing and say nothing and I will be saved.

Then they make it about themselves, you cares if you disagree or agree. Of course God is not an author of confusion but men are.

An example of confusion, Jesus clearly said those who turn away will perish

But an author of confusion who claims this is clear says

"It highlights the cost of discipleship. Once a person commits to following Jesus, they must not turn back to their old ways.
It does not mean salvation is earned"

If it highlights the cost of discipleship then what is discipleship, what is the value of it, what is the need for it?

Instead of asking a confused human, read your Bible, Jesus said in John.8.31 - 32
Jesus said to the people who believed in him, "You are truly my disciples if you keep obeying my teachings. And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

Those who obey him are his disciples and they will know the truth and they will be set free.

Infact don't listen to my explanations just read and, pray, ask the Holy Spirit to teach you.

1John.2.20 - 25
But you are not like that, for the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and all of you know the truth. So I am writing to you not because you don't know the truth but because you know the difference between truth and falsehood... So you must remain faithful to what you have been taught from the beginning. If you do, you will continue to live in fellowship with the Son and with the Father. And this is the promise that He has promised us--eternal life.

Matt.10.22 And everyone will hate you because of your allegiance to me. But those who endure to the end will be saved.

Matt.24.12-13 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Matt.25.34 - 36
Then the King will say to those on the right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home.
I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me.'

Luke.10.25-28
On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?" "What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?" He answered: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" "You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live."

John.5.24 "I assure you, those who listen to my message and believe in God who sent me have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.

John.12.50 And I know his instructions lead to eternal life; so I say whatever the Father tells me to say!"

After saying salvation leads to eternal life and eternal life wasn't promised as a reward by Jesus

Yet John wrote about it the promise of eternal life, even in Revelations where they deceptively avoiding mentioning that the reward for Ephesus was eating from the tree of life, for smyrna is the reward to escape the second death. These rewards were mentioned before manna, new name, authority over nations. Then Sardis whose reward was to not have their names removed from the book of life. Then the pillars at the temple and the throne of God.

Is your heart not broken at the lies men tell, the pride, and yet even in the face of the truth they won't repent. They will teach lies that destroy both them and those who listen to them. If your heart is not broken, mine is.

I shared this with someone earlier today:

Speaking of context in Ephesians 2
Paul is like, so I want you to know that salvation is by grace through faith which is not from yourself but a gift of God and so not of your works, like circumcision which the Jews are proud of, vs.11, so that you don't boost about such things like them. We are then born again to do the works God had already planned for us to do, vs. 10.

So the purpose of our repenting and obtaining mercy is for us to obey.

Now does Paul want us to know what salvation is or how we are saved?


Paul starts Ephesians 2 saying we were once living in sin like others but because of God's mercy and love we are brought to life with Christ, joined together with Christ. This referring to those who repented and turn to God.

Look at it this way;
A. Salvation is not works
B. Salvation is not by works

Which of the two did Paul write?

It is that salvation is not by works but the result of a gift that God gave, which is Jesus.


Now it is confusing to anyone who believes salvation is a gift when you tell them that they are expected to obey God, or to work their salvation out.


The other Apostles or letters call salvation a result of our faith.

1Pet.1.9 for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls. (NIV)
1Pet.1.9 Your reward for trusting him will be the salvation of your souls. (NLT)


But if we already are saved or have salvation then it no longer becomes a goal.

Now coming to Philippians 2 it is understandable to say that if salvation is a gift then working it out or bringing it to pass would mean maintaining it and keeping hold of it.

But that changes the definition of salvation. Salvation is supposed to mean we are safe or we are separated from eternal death.

And when you write about nurturing it and growing it, that is what we say of faith.

But If the devil can steal salvation then those who are saved are not safe, so where should their trust be in, in God who saves or in ourselves who have to keep it or we lose it. But if salvation is a reward as death & destruction is a reward, it means it is not in our hands but in God's hands. So we work for it and walk towards it that at the end we may attain it.

So what is given to us is faith that we may come boldly to obtain mercy and grace. That's why we shouldn't lose our faith.



Philippians 2 Paul first writes on humility and tell us to continually obey God whether anyone is watching us or not, but because of the fear of God in us. As you have obeyed continue to work out your salvation knowing that God gives you the desire and the grace that enables you to obey him.

We then see that without God's grace at work within us we won't be able to obey nor to be saved.

When Paul speaks of grace he writes

Rom.11.6 - And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.
1Cor.15.10 - But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them--yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me.
2Cor.9.8 - And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work.
Eph.3.7 - I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God's grace given me through the working of his power.


So the grace of God made available to us helps us do good works. You know in Romans 11:4 the 7,000 selected by grace was because they didn't commit idolatry. Even grace isn't free to everyone, James 4:6, 1 Peter 5:5 God gives grace to the humble

Rom.12.3 For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you. (NIV)

So grace is given to us for us to serve him and to be saved. And we can't receive it without humility and faith.

So the grace that saves us is through faith in Jesus and not through works of the law. Because the grace is from Jesus and is received by those who believe and obey him. It is very important that we understand the difference between the works required by the laws of Moses and the works of faith that is an evidence of our faith and show that our faith is alive and active.

Ephesians 2:8-9 again
What does grace do, grace saves
How do we get grace? Through faith
Is faith of ourselves? No, it is given by God
Is there a work or task for us to do to have faith? No, if our faith is based on what we do then we can boost but if our faith is based on what God has done then we glorify God.

How does grace save? Well God creates in you a new heart that enables you carry out his will because He saves those who do His will.


Is salvation free for everyone? No it is only for the children of God.

Grace makes us accepted to God in ways that the laws from Moses, circumcision and all, does not. And that's the major difference God already gave his commandments but now we have received grace to do his will.

So while a new born baby can be saved because of the mercy of God even without them living till the 8th day for circumcision nor if they are female. They cannot be guilty of breaking any of God's command.

Meanwhile an adult is expected to continually live in God's mercy and be merciful till the day they die for them to be saved. A baby hasn't hurt anybody and not even their paternal or adamic sin can bring them destruction because of the blood of Jesus. So as we grow and learn the ways of the world and hurt others, God expects us to do what is right with the time given to us...

Thankgod89:
This is a powerful example of salvation by grace through faith, not by works. Even in his final moments, the criminal’s sincere repentance and trust in Jesus granted him eternal life.

NO!
He is not saved yet!
A Visa to Paradise is not salvation, those in Paradise on earth are still under probation that's why God never counted them as part of the living until Satan is no more.
Only the 144,000 who partake in the first resurrection are saved because they are taken to heaven immediately as they are resurrected {1Thessalonians 4;16-17} but those resurrected here on earth can't have everlasting life until they pass the final test! Revelations 20:4-6
So what Jesus promised that thief is Visa to Paradise not heaven only born again Christians who has been baptized of water and spirit are born again {John 3:3-5} that thief never had such experience and the same goes with all the people who lived before John the baptist including John himself! Matthew 11:11-12

The Bible is not a controversial book, and simply quoting excessive Scriptures cannot turn falsehood into truth. After so much effort, the conclusion remains the same: “Salvation is free for the children of God.”

If that is the case, does it not contradict the idea that salvation must be earned? If everything previously argued leads back to salvation being a gift, then all attempts to defend the opposite position become invalid.

Let me be clear—I am not here to "win" a debate but to present what Scripture teaches. I love discussing the Bible, not with an attitude of knowing it all, but with a humble heart, willing to learn. However, I cannot ignore when Scripture is misinterpreted to fit personal ideas—especially when salvation, the most important truth, is distorted.

Salvation Is a Gift from God

Some argue that salvation is a reward, but the Bible says otherwise. Salvation is not something we earn; it is a gift freely given by God's grace.

1. Ephesians 2:8-9 – “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast.”

Salvation is not a prize for obedience or endurance; it is God's gracious gift to those who believe.

2. Romans 6:23 – “For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

If salvation were a reward, it would be based on what we deserve. But because of God’s love, He offers it freely, despite our unworthiness.

3. Titus 3:5 – “He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of His mercy.”

Good works, obedience, or perseverance do not earn salvation—they are the fruit of salvation.

The Bible speaks about obedience and endurance, but these are not the cause of salvation. Instead, they are the evidence of a life transformed by Christ.

John 10:28-29 – Jesus said, “I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.”

Jude 24 – “Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of His glory with great joy.”


Those who are truly saved will obey and endure—not to earn salvation, but because God's grace is at work in them.

MaxInDHouse:
NO!
He is not saved yet!
A Visa to Paradise is not salvation, those in Paradise on earth are still under probation that's why God never counted them as part of the living until Satan is no more.
Only the 144,000 who partake in the first resurrection are saved because they are taken to heaven immediately as they are resurrected {1Thessalonians 4;16-17} but those resurrected here on earth can't have everlasting life until they pass the final test! Revelations 20:4-6
So what Jesus promised that thief is Visa to Paradise not heaven only born again Christians who has been baptized of water and spirit are born again {John 3:3-5} that thief never had such experience and the same goes with all the people who lived before John the baptist including John himself! Matthew 11:11-12

"Come on! Are you for real?"
Your argument suggests that salvation is incomplete until after a probationary period in Paradise, but this view contradicts what Jesus Himself said and the broader teaching of Scripture. Let’s examine this carefully.

1. Jesus’ Promise to the Thief on the Cross

Luke 23:43 – "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in Paradise."

Jesus did not say, “You will enter a probationary state.”

He promised the thief immediate entry into Paradise, signifying salvation.

The thief expressed faith in Jesus as King, and Jesus responded with assurance.

Now look at this;
Revelation 2:7 – “To the one who overcomes, I will grant to eat from the tree of life, which is in the Paradise of God.”

Paradise is not a probationary waiting area—it is where the righteous dwell with God.


2 Corinthians 12:3-4 – Paul describes being caught up to Paradise, equating it with the "third heaven" (God’s dwelling place).

The idea that Paradise is separate from eternal life contradicts this passage.


Revelation 20:4-6 does speak of those who reign with Christ in the first resurrection, but it does not say they are the only ones saved.

The 144,000 are a specific group with a special role, not the only ones who attain salvation.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 describes the resurrection of all believers, not just a limited number.


Lastly, Salvation Is by Grace, Not Rituals

John 3:3-5 teaches the necessity of being born again, but this does not mean water baptism is the only way to be saved.

The thief on the cross was saved without baptism, proving salvation is by faith, not rituals.

Jesus Himself declared, "Whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life." (John 3:16)

Thankgod89:
Luke 23:43 – "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in Paradise."

This is what caused the contradiction for many Bible readers.

"Truly i tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise"

Jesus died and for three days he remained in his grave so it's not that day but the promise was sealed that day.
Secondly salvation is only for those that PRACTICE what Jesus taught and since the thief never had the opportunity to prove faithful to Christ through actions he can't be saved yet.
So the 1,000 years reign of Christ on Paradise Earth is where this thief will be opportuned to prove faithful to Christ when Christians will present what Jesus taught fully to the thief his salvation hings on what he does during that time because Satan will be let loosed to midlead people in Paradise after that 1,000 years that is where the thief will prove his loyalty to Christ. He must first get baptize then practice what Jesus taught so by the time Satan is destroyed he will have eternal life along with other survivors, what he got from Jesus is a Visa for resurrection not salvation.

MaxInDHouse:
This is what caused the contradiction for many Bible readers.

"Truly i tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise"

Jesus died and for three days he remained in his grave so it's not that day but the promised was sealed that day.
Secondly salvation is only for those that PRACTICE what Jesus taught and since the thief never had the opportunity to prove faithful to Christ through actions he can't be saved yet.
So the 1,000 years reign of Christ on Paradise Earth is where this thief will be opportuned to prove faithful to Christ when Christians will present what Jesus taught fully to the thief his salvation hings on what he does during that time because Satan will be let loosed to midlead people in Paradise after that 1,000 years that is where the thief will prove his loyalty to Christ. He must first get baptize then practice what Jesus taught so by the time Satan is destroyed he will have eternal life along with other survivors, what he got from Jesus is a Visa for resurrection not salvation.

What do you mean by contradiction? Are you saying you know more than the translators? You’re adding punctuation to fit your own interpretation, Very good!

If salvation is only for those who practice what Jesus taught, then what exactly is salvation? Someone said it’s a reward, but I'm going that way.

My brother, salvation comes by grace through faith

Salvation is not solely for those who practice what Jesus taught. Salvation is a gift of God's grace, received through faith in Jesus Christ. However, genuine salvation will produce a desire to obey Jesus' teachings: As we grow in our relationship with Jesus, we'll increasingly want to follow His teachings and live according to His will.

Romans 10:9 – “If you confess with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.”