₦airaland Forum

Truthseeker10:
So why femi Lazarus have a ministry school where he charges 150 dollars?

Why are you limiting the topic to Femi Lazarus alone...this is a general topic. ...all these new development is alien to Christian culture ....

We rarely see true gospel singers anymore...most of these people are music performers who just come to the church and perform for personal gain...which is why you see Muslims and idol worshipers in their music band....we have more noise but less impact among these acclaimed
Christian singers.

The money that these people received comes from the tithe and offering of faithful Christians in various churches.. this money by all means negate the gospel

"FEMI'. hmnnnn! Na wa o

Truthseeker10:
Are these things that you've listed above in bold based on the bible? If yes, why are they not taught freely and why are they not taught in church services?

Should individuals pay for bible school training or Bible school training should be sponsored by the donations of the church?

Bible schools are for leaders who believe they have been called to serve the people. Beyond the basics of Bible studies, they need to be trained on how to handle disputes in families and church units, how to do proper evangelism, how to conduct weddings, naming ceremonies, CSR, communion services, and public speaking, among other things. They also need to be trained on the nitty-gritty of the Bible because, as leaders, they are expected to know more about the scriptures than most of their congregation.

Those who are capable of sponsoring Bible school training are already doing so, and churches that cannot afford free training can charge a fee. People pay to study Christian Religious Studies in schools up to the Ph.D. level. The same applies to music; people pay for this training. I know Professors of Musicology. So, it is normal to charge a fee for training outside the scope of the church services.

If you, as an artist, want to charge, go and open a music school like others and charge a fee or apply for a lecturing job. Upload your videos on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Music, etc. for money. However, do not send invoices and appearance fees to the church. If they give you honourarium like most churches do, accept if you wish. When they don't give you, take your L in peace like MOGs do.

Magnificenttop:
Pastors also monetize SM platforms, they sell books and earn different ways too. The issue is the "church money", everyone wants its own share out of it.
A singer will not charge a fellow singer for ministration the same mode they do for pastors. There are stories of people paying for prayers or miracles. Selling holy water etc is still charging fee. And who told you pastors don't demand gifts or charge fee for ministration, officiating programs, events inside or outside their church? It's better you stop defending BS. Many people claiming God's work at this age only fighting massively for personal gain and some pastors are far far worse than the singers they're criticizing, so rest.

If pastors are writing books for money, why can't Mr. Singer start a music school or a musical instrument business? The main point is that your Mr. and Mrs. Singers want to live the Davido and Burna lifestyle off the church's purse. I'm not defending anyone against anybody; we are simply addressing one of the bad behaviours in the body of Christ before you people destroy the church Christ died for.

Magnificenttop:
Music school or selling books, whatever works for whoever, that's your concern not mine, you're the one raising that argument and claiming singers make money outside church while I'm simply saying same applies to pastors too. That's the simple point.
If pastors live the politician and celebrity lifestyle off church purse, why is it wrong if singers want the same?
You're defending pastors but castigating the singers while I'm saying they're both the same. You can't blame one and justify the other when both are guilty of same thing. Blame both or justify both. If you're really addressing bad behavior in body of Christ, you would have focused on that and be unbiased, instead of taking sides.

Well, the current trending issue is about musicians charging appearance fees. We have been addressing the excesses of MOGs, and we have been speaking against fake prophets monetising anointed water and charging deliverance fees. And truly, we have seen some level of decline, especially following the rise of the apostolic ministry in the last 5-6 years. On such threads, we don't try to water down these evil acts by comparing their excesses with others'.

Acidosis:
Bible schools are for leaders who believe they have been called to serve the people. Beyond the basics of Bible studies, they need to be trained on how to handle disputes in families and church units, how to do proper evangelism, how to conduct weddings, naming ceremonies, CSR, communion services, and public speaking, among other things. They also need to be trained on the nitty-gritty of the Bible because, as leaders, they are expected to know more about the scriptures than most of their congregation.


Those who are capable of sponsoring Bible school training are already doing so, and churches that cannot afford free training can charge a fee. People pay to study Christian Religious Studies in schools up to the Ph.D. level. The same applies to music; people pay for this training. I know Professors of Musicology. So, it is normal to charge a fee for training outside the scope of the church services.

is it the duty of the church to train people on matters that are pertaining to "outside of the scope of the church services"?

Why can't the church teach people for free on matters pertaining to the "services of the church"?

If you, as an artist, want to charge, go and open a music school like others and charge a fee or apply for a lecturing job. Upload your videos on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Music, etc. for money. However, do not send invoices and appearance fees to the church. If they give you honourarium like most churches do, accept if you wish. When they don't give you, take your L in peace like MOGs do.

Why should the church invite an artist to the church in the first place?

bmaster2000:
Why are you limiting the topic to Femi Lazarus alone...this is a general topic. ...all these new development is alien to Christian culture ....

We rarely see true gospel singers anymore...most of these people are music performers who just come to the church and perform for personal gain...which is why you see Muslims and idol worshipers in their music band....we have more noise but less impact among these acclaimed
Christian singers.

The money that these people received comes from the tithe and offering of faithful Christians in various churches.. this money by all means negate the gospel

So why should a church invite a gospel artist to come and perform in the first place?

And are you saying that femi Lazarus having a ministry school where he teaches people about the bible and charging them is justified?

bmaster2000:
Are you born again? Let us begin there, because if we don't, you will not understand what the pastor is saying. Go meet Davido and WizKid as a starting point for discussion.

These are God's funds collected through tithes and offerings, and they should be used wisely. Not to give any worldly singers who claimed to be a gospel minister.

Oga drink water and go to bed.

Truthseeker10:
is it the duty of the church to train people on matters that are pertaining to "outside of the scope of the church services"?

Scope of church services in that you don't expect the pastor to start teaching people how to conduct weddings or church management in a bible study service or prayer meeting.

People who have been called need to be trained to manage their gifts properly. As powerful as the prophetic gift is, for example, it can be used to destroy a family if not handled correctly. Jesus taught and mentored 12 disciples. The training the 12 received was not the same as the training given to the crowd at the temple. Consider Apostle Paul and his mentee, Timothy. Same principle. Paul taught multitude like you would do in Bible studies, but he had people he taught the basics of church management and dispute resolution.

Why should the church invite an artist to the church in the first place?

We know it is mainly to minister to the people. But we also know that, many times, churches invite them to draw crowd. However, we can’t use that as a reason to charge appearance fees. After all, many men of God also receive the same invitations for the purpose of drawing the attention of the multitude in hopes of winning them over, without charging any appearance fees.

See, nothing justifies appearance fees. Let’s just leave it at that sha.

RealNiggaDee:
Craziness...They should sing and jump around in your concert but go home with empty stomach ?

Agreed, but the conditions are outrageous.

Acidosis:
Scope of church services in that you don't expect the pastor to start teaching people how to conduct weddings or church management in a bible study service or prayer meeting.

People who have been called need to be trained to manage their gifts properly. As powerful as the prophetic gift is, for example, it can be used to destroy a family if not handled correctly. Jesus taught and mentored 12 disciples. The training the 12 received was not the same as the training given to the crowd at the temple. Consider Apostle Paul and his mentee, Timothy. Same principle. Paul taught multitude like you would do in Bible studies, but he had people he taught the basics of church management and dispute resolution.

So how much did Jesus and the Apostle Paul charge for their training?

Why can't the pastor organize a program for free using church funds to train people on how to handle weddings and church management pertaining to the church?

We know it is mainly to minister to the people. But we also know that, many times, churches invite them to draw crowd. However, we can’t use that as a reason to charge appearance fees. After all, many men of God also receive the same invitations for the purpose of drawing the attention of the multitude in hopes of winning them over, without charging any appearance fees.

See, nothing justifies appearance fees. Let’s just leave it at that sha.

So why can't the pastors use church members of the church to minister to people through music?

Magnificenttop:
It's like sex-for-mark lecturer calling out a money-for-mark lecturer, after raising the dust, it will eventually settle on both or even more on whoever made the callout because you can't castigate others for what you're guilty of or perhaps more guilty of. That's why the discussion is trending and getting back at pastors. Assuming a neutral third party did the callout, it'd all be different scenario.
And your own argument has been two ways, defending/justifying one side while blaming/castigating the other side which portrayed your biased perspective from start. When you were not successful with your bias, you started pretending like you had sincere intention.

A neutral party like Timi Dakolo or Davido?

You’re practically saying that a pastor of a church has no authority whatsoever to correct anomalies in the body of Christ. Do you see how much authority you’ve assumed for guest artists?

Let’s just thank God for giving men like Pastor Chris the grace to quickly correct the anomalies and monsters they created. Why would you need a third party to address bad behavior when you have your pastor to do that? Lol…

I sha hope you won’t complain when these appearance-charging guest ministers start complaining about zero gigs. Hehe

Truthseeker10:
So how much did Jesus and the Apostle Paul charge for their training?

I've addressed this issue earlier. Paul got several donations. He was also a tentmaker. Many bible schools offer free training. Some are heavily subsidised. Tell me this justifies charging appearance fees and first class flight ticket, and I'll stop arguing. There are better things to do with my Tuesday.

Why can't the pastor organize a program for free using church funds to train people on how to handle weddings and church management pertaining to the church?

Many are already doing that. I have attended several workers trainings without paying a dime.

So why can't the pastors use church members of the church to minister to people through music?

I have never seen a church without a choir. What's your point?

Acidosis:
I've addressed this issue earlier. Paul got several donations. He was also a tentmaker. Many bible schools offer free training. Some are heavily subsidised. Tell me this justifies charging appearance fees and first class flight ticket, and I'll stop arguing. There are better things to do with my Tuesday.



Many are already doing that. I have attended several workers trainings without paying a dime.

Lol...so if Jesus and Paul never charged a fee for training on things pertaining to the church, what is the justification on charging a fee for a "ministry school" that is supposed to teach people on things pertaining to the church?

I have never seen a church without a choir. What's your point?

So why are the choirs not used instead of an artist. What is more important to God? The "artist" or the "song"?

Truthseeker10:
Lol...so if Jesus and Paul never charged a fee for training on things pertaining to the church, what is the justification on charging a fee for a "ministry school" that is supposed to teach people on things pertaining to the church?

This is like asking, "Why do you use or pay for a Bible? Did Jesus sell or read Bibles?" You’ve taken the argument to a scope that doesn’t deserve my attention. So, at this point, I would rather leave you to believe and do what you believe in.

So why are the choirs not used instead of an artist. What is more important to God? The "artist" or the "song"?

This is like asking why do churches invite other pastors for programs? What's more important to God? The sermon or the pastor? So, again, you’ve taken the argument to a scope that doesn’t deserve my attention. So, at this point, I would rather leave you to believe and do what you believe in.

Acidosis:
This is like asking, "Why do you use or pay for a Bible? Did Jesus sell or read Bibles?" You’ve taken the argument to a scope that doesn’t deserve my attention. So, at this point, I would rather leave you to believe and do what you believe in.

You are funny and cunny. If a church produces a bible with church funds, should it be sold to church members?

You are angry that gospel artist charge money for singing in church but you are not angry that pastors are charging money for "ministry school" pertaining to church? Is that not Hypocrisy?

This is like asking why do churches invite other pastors for programs? What's more important to God? The sermon or the pastor? So, again, you’ve taken the argument to a scope that doesn’t deserve my attention. So, at this point, I would rather leave you to believe and do what you believe in.

Funny man.....If a pastor is known for charging a fee to preach, why should he be invited at all to the church whether his fee is small or big?

Are pastors and gospel artist suppose to commercialise the word of God at all whether in the church or elsewhere?

Truthseeker10:
You are funny and cunny. If a church produces a bible with church funds, should it be sold to church members?

Thankfully, they don't have to force or beg you to buy. Any christian that wants to grow know too well to buy these books/bibles, whether you're buying from the bookshop or wherever. It is not my business to investigate the authors' source of funding.

You are angry that gospel artist charge money for singing in church but you are not angry that pastors are charging money for "ministry school" pertaining to church? Hypocrisy.

You're confusing yourself bro. What's "ministry school" pertaining to church? At least, you're not accusing Apostle Selman or any other MoG for charging $50k and first class ticket to preach in the UK 🤭

BTW, I'm not angry that gospel artist are charging money for singing. I'm happy that MOGs have identified the anomalies and monsters they created and now they are so ready to deal with these monsters.

If you're one of these artists, it's not too late to repent. You can monetize your gift through other means. Start a music school, hire lecturers, and charge a fee. Write music books, hymns, and get a publisher/distributor. Abi you too no want "easy church money"? 😂

Acidosis:
Thankfully, they don't have to force or beg you to buy. Any christian that wants to grow know too well to buy these books/bibles.

Funny man.....so are you justifying that books and bibles that are produced by the church with church funds should be sold?

confusing yourself bro. What's "ministry school" pertaining to church? At least, you're not accusing Apostle Selman or any other MoG for charging $50k and first class ticket to preach in the UK 🤭

BTW, I'm not angry that gospel artist are charging money for singing. I'm happy that MOGs have identified the anomalies and monsters they created and now they are so ready to deal with these monsters.

You are funny oo.....did you not claim that "ministry school" are schools that teach how to handle "church services". Why should there be a charge on that at all when church funds and donations are used to set them up?


You should be angry that so-called "gospel artist" and "pastors" charge money for the "gospel" whether they do it in the church or outside the church. You cannot refer to a work as a "gospel" the moment you start commercializing it. It was never done by Jesus or the apostles to commercialise the "word of God" whether in the church or outside the church.

Truthseeker10:
Funny man.....so are you justifying that books and bibles that are produced by the church with church funds should be sold?

From the way you are so confident that churches use church funds to print books and resell them to their members, one would think you have managed a church or held a treasury position in a megachurch before. Stop discussing issues beyond your scope of knowledge, bro.

To move forward with my view on church funds and management, we both need to provide evidence that we have handled church finances and records of a megachurch for at least a year. Are you ready?

You are funny oo.....did you not claim that "ministry school" are schools that teach how to handle "church services". Why should there be a charge on that at all when church funds and donations are used to set them up?

Refer to my post above

Magnificenttop:
The simple discussion here and as it is all over the internet is, the pastors are also as guilty or perhaps more guilty than the singers they're criticizing. If you're confused, I'm not.

Okay since the pastors are guilty of charging appearance fees (wherever you got that from), should gospel artistes continue to charge appearance fees? I never said you shouldn't criticise pastors, after all you people have been doing that before the birth of Christ. The point is why are you trying to water down the purpose of this thread and trend about appearance fees?

You're acting like the typical Nigerian. Whenever someone calls out a politician for stealing public funds, you quickly remind everybody of how everyone in Nigeria is a thief and how all of us have been stealing meat from our mama's pot of stew, therefore, the politician should be left alone. We all know what we are doing. Lol.

Acidosis:
From the way you are so confident that churches use church funds to print books and resell them to their members, one would think you have managed a church or held a treasury position in a megachurch before. Stop discussing issues beyond your scope of knowledge, bro.

To move forward with my view on church funds and management, we both need to provide evidence that we have handled church finances and records of a megachurch for at least a year. Are you ready?

oga you have failed in your defense. If you agree that bibles and books produced by the church with church funds should not be sold to members, then "ministry schools" set up by church funds should never charge a fee like femi Lazarus who charges 150 dollars for "ministry school".

Any "gospel artist" or "pastor" that charges a fee whether in the church or outside the church cannot be said to do a work of the "gospel". The "gospel" should never be commercialized whether in the church or outside the church. Jesus and his apostles are good examples in this matter.

Magnificenttop:
No one is justifying the singers, people are only saying what applies to them equally applies to the pastors too.
So in essence, while singers are being corrected, the pastors who made the callout are being corrected too. If one's guilty, they're both guilty and should both amend where necessary. It's that simple.
You're the one all the while taking sides, being bias and castigating one while justifying the other.

Don't mind the fellow.....he has no problem with femi Lazarus charging 150 dollars per head for a so-called "ministry school" set up with church funds but has problems with gospel artist.

Truthseeker10:
oga you have failed in your defense. If you agree that bibles and books produced by the church with church funds should not be sold to members, then "ministry schools" set up by church funds should never charge a fee like femi Lazarus who charges 150 dollars for "ministry school".

I didn't agree with anything. I paid for my hard copy bible from a bookstore. I bought bibles for my kids, I pay for Sunday school materials, I buy books written by MOGs, I download e-Bibles like YouVersion that are freely available (but heavily paid for by programmers, designers, and other donors, who gave their time for the app). Sometimes, I buy devotionals. I pay Internet subscription to listen to sermons online without trying to investigate the sources of the funds used by these authors. But since you're so sure that pastors take church money to write books, please provide evidence.

Any "gospel artist" or "pastor" that charges a fee whether in the church or outside the church cannot be said to do a work of the "gospel". The "gospel" should never be commercialized whether in the church or outside the church. Jesus and his apostles are good examples in this matter.

Salvation is free. That’s why you’ll see free tracts everywhere. However, if you are indeed a Christian who wants to grow and attain maturity, using your resources to seek more knowledge will be a natural thing for you. You wouldn’t need to be compelled to buy resources or start digging into an author’s source of funding. Some disciples of Jesus sold all their properties just to follow Him. Not everyone qualified, and that’s fine. There were twelve for a reason. Discipleship is not cheap. Nothing comes for nothing.

Acidosis:
I didn't agree with anything. I paid for my hard copy bible from a bookstore. I bought bibles for my kids, I pay for Sunday school materials, I buy books written by MOGs, I download e-Bibles like YouVersion that are freely available (but heavily paid for by programmers, designers, and other donors, who gave their time for the app). Sometimes, I buy devotionals. I pay Internet subscription to listen to sermons online without trying to investigate the sources of the funds used by these authors. But since you're so sure that pastors take church money to write books, please provide evidence.

are all these things that you are paying for produced by a church with church funds? If yes, you are been cheated.

If pastors use their money to write books on the "gospel", should it be sold? Where was the idea of the "gospel" gotten from?

Salvation is free. That’s why you’ll see free tracts everywhere. However, if you are indeed a Christian who wants to grow and attain maturity, using your resources to seek more knowledge will be a natural thing for you. You wouldn’t need to be compelled to buy resources or start digging into an author’s source of funding. Some disciples of Jesus sold all their properties just to follow Him. Not everyone qualified, and that’s fine. There were twelve for a reason. Discipleship is not cheap. Nothing comes for nothing.

So did any of the disciples sell their property to commercialise the "word of God"?

Truthseeker10:
are all these things that you are paying for produced by a church with church funds? If yes, you are been cheated.

If pastors use their money to write books on the "gospel", should it be sold? Where was the idea of the "gospel" gotten from?

No more response on church funds from me.

So did any of the disciples sell their property to commercialise the "word of God"?

This is like asking 'why did Jesus told his disciples to sell off their properties even though salvation is free'

Your line of argument is already a turn off. I am not convinced you even belong to any church to start with. So, I'll simply excuse myself from this discussion. No vex🤞 Many times on this section, I've found myself discussing bible matters with radical atheists, unknown to me, thanks to Seun.

Acidosis:
No more response on church funds from me.

😂😂Do you hate to hear church funds?

is like asking 'why did Jesus told his disciples to sell off their properties even though salvation is free'

Your line of argument is already a turn off. I am not convinced you even belong to any church to start with. So, I'll simply excuse myself from this discussion. No vex🤞 Many times on this section, I've found myself discussing bible matters with radical atheists, unknown to me, thanks to Seun.

Jesus told a man to sell off his properties and give to the poor and follow him. Jesus never told him to start writing books on the "gospel" and start selling or build ministry schools and start charging fees. "Gospel artist" and "pastors" should never commercialise the "gospel" whether in the church or outside the church. Church donations should be used to train people for free on church services. Jesus and his Apostles are an example of this.

RealNiggaDee post=134684528]Craziness...They should sing and jump around in your concert but go home with empty stomach ?

🙄 You big Olodo, he's trying to say you can collect but demand....

Go and listen to the message again



..

Manaty2nice:
RealNiggaDee post=134684528]Craziness...They should sing and jump around in your concert but go home with empty stomach ?

🙄 You big Olodo, he's trying to say you can collect but demand....

Go and listen to the message again



..

It is numb skull like yourself that stifle the gospel music industry from growing...Ask yourself why styl plus switched from gospel to secular music . It is because the secular people would pay their hard earn money to support Afrobeat shows . But daddy GO wants gospel celebrities to do it for free , and still be wearing torn over washed suits .


Learn to support your own ...Mr Eleribu