₦airaland Forum

Lamasta:
If God used women to deliver nations like Israel and raised them as Judge and prophetess is it church God cannot use them to pastor??

na u sabi dat one o....As 4 me it's wrong...simple

GreatAchiever1:
There’s nothing particularly sensitive about this topic. I’ve previously researched it, examining various perspectives through the lens of Scripture.

The role of elder or pastor, as this topic addresses, is clearly reserved for men according to biblical teaching.

Churches that assign this office to women are in serious error and are acting in disobedience to the authority of God’s Word. The pastoral role is not intended for women, as seen in passages from 1 Corinthians 14 , 1 Timothy 2, and Titus 1, books often referred to as the pastoral epistles.

The introduction of female pastors into the Church is largely a result of modern egalitarian views and secular movements like the push for women's empowerment, which have gradually influenced Christian practice. Historically, up until around the 19th century, the concept of a female pastor was virtually unheard of in the Church.

Oga spare us with your research. The Bible is not written based on research. Your Bible tells you men spoke through the inspiration of the Holy spirit. How the Holy Spirit works is not restricted to research.

MaxInDHouse:
You don't get it.
A woman may have the heart of a lioness which is the spirit of justice but when talking about leadership during worship God never chose a female!

The lion that is a tribe of Judah don't do justice alone

To spin and twist the scriptures alongside your brains na your specialty.

gohf:
Oga equality has less to do with capacity when it isn't about gender and about reproduction.

Can a woman teach yes or no? Yes why should she not teach because her body is different from a man's body. Even God allowed daughters to inherit their father's property but that's not the God you believe in and listen to anyway.

Sell lies from hell!

GE 3:16, CO 11:3-9, EP 5:22-24, CN 3:18, TS 2:5, 1PE 3:1-6
The husband is to rule over his wife. Wives are to be subject to their husbands even when the husband is disobedient to God. Man is the image and glory of God, while woman is the glory of man. Man was not created for woman but woman for man.

GE 3:16 Women should suffer pain during childbirth. (Note: This verse was used by the Church to oppose the use of anesthesia during childbirth.)

EX 21:7-11
A father can sell a daughter into slavery to pay a debt. A daughter sold into slavery is not released at the end of six years as is an ordinary male slave.

EX 22:16-17
An unbetrothed virgin is required to marry her seducer.

LE 12:2
A woman who has a child, especially a female child, is unclean and purification rites are required.

LE 15:19
A woman who is menstruating is unclean. Anyone who touches her is unclean.

LE 15:20
Anything which a woman who is menstruating sits on or lies on is unclean.

LE 15:21
Anyone who touches the bed of a woman who is menstruating must wash his clothes and bathe, and is unclean until evening.

LE 15:22
Anyone who touches anything which was sat upon by a woman who is menstruating must wash his clothes and bathe, and is unclean until evening.

LE 15:28
After her flow stops, a woman who was menstruating must count off seven days before she is considered clean again. On the eighth day, she must present two birds to the priest for an atonement for having had a menstrual discharge.

LE 27:3-7
Males are more valuable than females.

NU 5:12-31
A woman suspected or accused of adultery is to be tested by making her drink the “water of bitterness,” or holy water mixed with dust from the floor. (Note: There is no such test for men.) In Anambra, na dead body wash water...

NU 31:18, 35, JG 21:12
Young virgins are considered a spoil of war and can be taken for the use of the victors.

DT 22:13-21
A bride in whom “the tokens of virginity” are not found is to be put to death. (Note: The bridegroom who falsely accuses his bride gets off with a fine.)

DT 22:23-24
A betrothed virgin who is seduced in the city is to be put to death unless she cries for help.

DT 22:28-29
A virgin who is raped must marry her rapist (if they are “found”).

DT 24:1-4
A man may divorce his wife simply because she displeases him.

DT 25:5-10
A man has an obligation to produce a child for his widowed sister-in-law.

DT 25:11
A wife who grabs her husband’s opponent by his “private parts” must have her hand cut off and is to be shown no pity.

JG 21:21
The Benjamites are commanded to take wives by hiding in the vineyards and then seizing the “daughters of Shiloh” as they come out to dance.

PR 31:10-31
The able wife is to bring only profit and no loss, rise before dawn, buy land prudently, plant a vineyard with her earnings, keep her lamp burning all night, gird herself to work, be generous to the poor, lend a hand to the forlorn, talk shrewd sense, offer kindly counsel, and never be idle.

New testament
1CO 11:3-10
A woman is to keep her head covered while praying or prophesying.

1CO 14:34-35
Women are to be silent in church. If they have any questions, they are to ask their husbands at home. It is a shame for women to speak in church.

1TI 2:9, 1PE 3:3
Women should not braid their hair, or wear gold or pearls or costly attire.

1TI 2:11-12
Women are to learn in silence (from men) in all submissiveness.

1TI 2:12
Women are not permitted to teach or have authority over men.

HISSCRIBE1995 and Fxmasterz are all these laws inspired and in your Bible?

achorladey:
Oga spare us with your research. The Bible is not written based on research. Your Bible tells you men spoke through the inspiration of the Holy spirit. How the Holy Spirit works is not restricted to research.

Read to understand. By research, I meant the opinion of those concerning this topic and their argument of why women should be allowed to be pastors.

VicM6:
na u sabi dat one o....As 4 me it's wrong...simple

How is it wrong as for you cos last time I checked their is no gender in heaven and the bible said those that worship God must do so in spirit and in truth

MaxInDHouse:
You don't get it.
A woman may have the heart of a lioness which is the spirit of justice but when talking about leadership during worship God never chose a female!

I sited Deborah as an example of how God used her as an example to lead the nation of Israel as a prophetess you are still typing God can never chose a female, shay you be God ni

Lamasta:
I sited Deborah as an example of how God used her as an example to lead the nation of Israel as a prophetess you are still typing God can never chose a female, shay you be God ni

Do you know why God established the Tabernacle?
Well that's the place where worship was done in Israel and no single female leads there, Deborah leads the Israelites as a prophetess and judge her office of oversight has nothing to do inside the Tabernacle!

MaxInDHouse:
Moses is not the Highpriest but Aaron his brother there is a different between a prophet and a priest, priests are those taking the lead in worship while prophets pass direct messages from God to the people.
So a female could serve as prophet but never as a priest that's why Jesus never chose a female to serve as an apostle in the midst of his disciples!

Have you read Psalms 99:6 that talks about Moses

That Jesus did not chose a female among the 12 does not signify that Jesus rejected them from pastoring a church

Lamasta:
Have you read Psalms 99:6 that talks about Moses

Did any Psalms say Moses could officiate inside the Tabernacle/Temple?
This is the reason why you people needs to STUDY the Bible not just reading it.

Moses was a prophet but when talking about the Tabernacle and the priest who should officiate inside it Moses step aside because that office was given to Aaron his brother.

So don't think it's mixed together a king in Israel like David was a prophet but he has no right inside the Tabernacle to lead during worship!

MaxInDHouse:
Did any Psalms say Moses could officiate inside the Tabernacle/Temple?

Just admit you don't like women leading in the church simple instead of coming here to tell is God did not chose them to do that

MaxInDHouse:
Did any Psalms say Moses could officiate inside the Tabernacle/Temple?
This is the reason why you people needs to STUDY the Bible not just reading it.

Moses was a prophet but when talking about the Tabernacle and the priest who should officiate inside it Moses step aside because that office was given to Aaron his brother.

So don't think it's mixed together a king in Israel like David was a prophet but he has no right inside the Tabernacle to lead during worship!

Moses officiated as a priest also but he has a higher task given to him by God which makes him annoint Aaron to oversee the office

Lamasta:
That Jesus did not chose a female among the 12 does not signify that Jesus rejected them from pastoring a church

Jesus has set the standard so his true disciples follow his footsteps CLOSELY {1Peter 2:21} that's the same thing Paul is emphasizing!

MaxInDHouse:
Jesus has set the standard so his true disciples follow his footsteps CLOSELY {1Peter 2:21} that's the same thing Paul is emphasizing!

Show me where Jesus said a female must not lead in the church?

Lamasta:
Just admit you don't like women leading in the church simple instead of coming here to tell is God did not chose them to do that

Well we are following what God's people PRACTICED in the Bible!

Lamasta:
Moses officiated as a priest also but he has a higher task given to him by God which makes him annoint Aaron to oversee the office

NO!
Moses was chosen to lead the Israelites to the promised land and establish the laws as well as pure worship but officiating inside the Tabernacle strictly was given to Aaron!

MaxInDHouse:
Well we are following what God's people PRACTICED in the Bible!

Make I Corinthians 13:9 your watchword when it comes to the things of God....

For we know in part and we prophesy in part

Lamasta:
Show me where Jesus said a female must not lead in the church?

He has spoken through his ACTIONS nah!

How else do you expect someone to say "i don't want a female to lead among you" after he chose twelve apostles not one not two not three but twelve men out of numerous disciples among whom were many females?

Lamasta:
Make It Corinthians 13:9 your watchword when it comes to the things of God....
For we know in part and we prophesy in part

Please don't change the subject we are talking about females leading during worship in Israel!

MaxInDHouse:
He has spoken through his ACTIONS nah!

How else do you expect someone to say "i don't want a female to lead among you" after he chose twelve apostles not one not two not three but twelve men out of numerous disciples among whom were many females?

Show me a verse to establish your claims

Lamasta:
Show me a verse to establish your claims

In fact, to this course you were called, because even Christ suffered for you, leaving a model for you to follow his steps closely! 1Peter 2:21

Did Jesus choose a female among his Apostles?
NO!
So we follow his footsteps CLOSELY!

The problem with most people claiming Christians is they don't see Jesus as Lord and Teacher because if someone you call "Lord" sets a standard you shouldn't think of doing things contrary to what he did! Matthew 15:7-9

How can you people keep shouting
"Jesus is Lord" in your worship centers but disregard the pattern he set among his own disciples? Matthew 7:21-23

The question of whether a woman should pastor a church is indeed one that generates deep theological, cultural, and denominational debate. It is important to approach the issue with both intellectual honesty and respect for differing perspectives.

Those who support female pastors often cite examples of women in leadership roles in Scripture—such as Deborah the judge, Priscilla the teacher, and Phoebe the deaconess—as evidence that God can and does use women for significant ministry roles. They argue that spiritual gifting, not gender, should determine who leads.

On the other hand, those who oppose the idea often reference passages like 1 Timothy 2:12 or 1 Corinthians 14:34–35, which they interpret as setting boundaries for women's leadership within the church. They believe that pastoral leadership is a role ordained specifically for men, based on biblical order and apostolic instruction.

Ultimately, the answer to this question often depends on one’s theological framework, denominational stance, and interpretation of Scripture.

GreatAchiever1:
Read to understand. By research, I meant the opinion of those concerning this topic and their argument of why women should be allowed to be pastors.

Research and opinion of others on the topic is not the criteria the spirit of God used to do his purpose regarding men and women.

Lamasta:
I sited Deborah as an example of how God used her as an example to lead the nation of Israel as a prophetess you are still typing God can never chose a female, shay you be God ni

You go tire for their matter, there are so many letters of the law than the spirit Christians. It is always about the letter. Even Paul whose background started with letters eventually succomb to the spirit.

Is it not under the same headship palaver Paul stated....

Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12 For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God.

MaxInDHouse:
In fact, to this course you were called, because even Christ suffered for you, leaving a model for you to follow his steps closely! 1Peter 2:21

Did Jesus choose a female among his Apostles?
NO!
So we follow his footsteps CLOSELY!

One scripture they run to, to advance their agenda.....

So we follow his footsteps CLOSELY!

Hide behind the scripture above when it fit your dogma.

achorladey:
Research and opinion of others on the topic is not the criteria the spirit of God used to do his purpose regarding men and women.

Of course, this I agree with it. The scripture is all laid out with biblical gender roles and if I should ask you regarding this topic, what is your stance on this because you came in to my mention with an attacking mentality without stating your own stance.

PstBiola:
There is perhaps no more hotly debated issue in the church today than that of women serving as pastors. As a result, it is important to not see this issue as men versus women. There are women who believe women should not serve as pastors and that the Bible places restrictions on the ministry of women, and there are men who believe women can serve as pastors and that there are no restrictions on women in ministry. This is not a matter of chauvinism or discrimination. It is an issue of biblical interpretation.

The Word of God proclaims, “A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent” (1 Timothy 2:11–12). In the church, God assigns different roles to men and women. This is a result of the way mankind was created and the way in which sin entered the world (1 Timothy 2:13–14). God, through the apostle Paul, restricts women from serving in roles of teaching and/or having spiritual authority over men. This precludes women from serving as pastors over men, since pastoring definitely includes preaching, teaching publicly, and exercising spiritual authority.

There are many objections to this view of women in pastoral ministry. A common one is that Paul restricts women from teaching because in the first century, women were typically uneducated. However, 1 Timothy 2:11–14 nowhere mentions educational status. If education were a qualification for ministry, then the majority of Jesus’ disciples would not have been qualified. A second common objection is that Paul only restricted the women of Ephesus from teaching men (1 Timothy was written to Timothy, the pastor of the church in Ephesus). Ephesus was known for its temple to Artemis, and women were the authorities in that branch of paganism—therefore, the theory goes, Paul was only reacting against the female-led customs of the Ephesian idolaters, and the church needed to be different. However, the book of 1 Timothy nowhere mentions Artemis, nor does Paul mention the standard practice of Artemis worshipers as a reason for the restrictions in 1 Timothy 2:11–12.

A third objection is that Paul is only referring to husbands and wives, not men and women in general. The Greek words for “woman” and “man” in 1 Timothy 2 could refer to husbands and wives; however, the basic meaning of the words is broader than that. Further, the same Greek words are used in verses 8–10. Are only husbands to lift up holy hands in prayer without anger and disputing (verse ? Are only wives to dress modestly, have good deeds, and worship God (verses 9–10)? Of course not. Verses 8–10 clearly refer to all men and women, not just husbands and wives. There is nothing in the context that would indicate a narrowing to husbands and wives in verses 11–14.

Yet another objection to this interpretation of women in pastoral ministry references women in positions of leadership in the Bible, specifically Miriam, Deborah, and Huldah in the Old Testament. It is true that these women were chosen by God for special service to Him and that they stand as models of faith, courage, and, yes, leadership. However, the authority of women in the Old Testament is not relevant to the issue of pastors in the church. The New Testament Epistles present a new paradigm for God’s people—the church, the body of Christ—and that paradigm involves an authority structure unique to the church, not for the nation of Israel or any other Old Testament entity.

Similar arguments are made using Priscilla and Phoebe in the New Testament. In Acts 18, Priscilla and Aquila are presented as faithful ministers for Christ. In verse 18, Priscilla’s name is mentioned first, suggesting to some that she was more prominent in ministry than her husband. (The detail of whose name comes first is probably inconsequential, because in verses 2 and 26 the order is reversed from that of verse 18.) Did Priscilla and her husband teach the gospel of Jesus Christ to Apollos? Yes, in their home they “explained to him the way of God more adequately” (Acts 18:26). Does the Bible ever say that Priscilla pastored a church or taught publicly or became the spiritual leader of a congregation of saints? No. As far as we know, Priscilla was not involved in ministry activity in contradiction to 1 Timothy 2:11–14.

In Romans 16:1, Phoebe is called a “deacon” (or “servant”) in the church and is highly commended by Paul. But, as with Priscilla, there is nothing in Scripture to indicate that Phoebe was a pastor or a teacher of men in the church. “Able to teach” is given as a qualification for elders, but not for deacons (1 Timothy 3:1–13; Titus 1:6–9).

The structure of 1 Timothy 2:11–14 makes the reason why women cannot be pastors perfectly clear. Verse 13 begins with “for,” giving the “cause” of Paul’s statement in verses 11–12. Why should women not teach or have authority over men? Because “Adam was created first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived” (verses 13–14). God created Adam first and then created Eve to be a “helper” for Adam. The order of creation has universal application in the family (Ephesians 5:22–33) and in the church.

The fact that Eve was deceived is also given as a reason for women not serving as pastors or having spiritual authority over men (1 Timothy 2:14). This does not mean that women are gullible or that they are all more easily deceived than men. If all women are more easily deceived, why would they be allowed to teach children (who are easily deceived) and other women (who are supposedly more easily deceived)? The text simply says that women are not to teach men or have spiritual authority over men because Eve was deceived. God has chosen to give men the primary teaching authority in the church.

Many women excel in gifts of hospitality, mercy, teaching, evangelism, and helping/serving. Much of the ministry of the local church depends on women. Women in the church are not restricted from public praying or prophesying (1 Corinthians 11:5), only from having spiritual teaching authority over men. The Bible nowhere restricts women from exercising the gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12). Women, just as much as men, are called to minister to others, to demonstrate the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22–23), and to proclaim the gospel to the lost (Matthew 28:18–20; Acts 1:8; 1 Peter 3:15).

God has ordained that only men are to serve in positions of spiritual teaching authority in the church. This does not imply men are better teachers or that women are inferior or less intelligent. It is simply the way God designed the church to function. Men are to set the example in spiritual leadership—in their lives and through their words. Women are also to set an example in their lives, but in a different way (1 Peter 3:1-6). Women are encouraged to teach other women (Titus 2:3–5). The Bible also does not restrict women from teaching children. The only activity women are restricted from is teaching or having spiritual authority over men. This bars women from serving as pastors to men. This does not make women less important, by any means; rather, it gives them a ministry focus more in agreement with God’s design.

Even though I agree with this but bro take am easy with the complete copy and paste syndrome without quoting the source.

MaxInDHouse:
In fact, to this course you were called, because even Christ suffered for you, leaving a model for you to follow his steps closely! 1Peter 2:21

Did Jesus choose a female among his Apostles?
NO!
So we follow his footsteps CLOSELY!

We are just going back and forth on this issue, my point is that Jesus did not specifically instructed that females should not pastor a church; Him choosing 12 males to disciple does not necessarily mean he relegated women in the work of the ministry that's why I sited to you I Corinthians 13: 9 cos we only know in part.....

brainhgeek:
We do not box God and who He decides to use. If He used a donkey to declare His intentions, aren't women better than donkeys?
A balanced analysis of the verses quoted will help a lot. We may want to ask ourselves 'was Paul speaking to the universal assembly or a local assembly? I am of the opinion that he was addressing the assemblies in Corinth and Ephesus where there were contending issues that needed to be addressed ASAP. Remember, same Paul had women (Priscilla, Phoebe, Junia(mentioned by Paul as an Apostle - Romans 16:7), Chloe, Euodia, Syntyche, Mary, Julia, Tryphaena, Tryphosa ) who worked with him and many of them must have been in leadership positions and even had Churches in their houses (Romans 5) and were admins in other branches.
The verses in the book of Timothy and Corinthians did not address universal Christian women and have been taken contextually without an understanding. There was a mention of women keeping quite but elsewhere in Corinthians and Joel, the gift of prophesy is encouraged and promised. How do you prophesy and pray when you are quite? May the revelation of Christ be full in our hearts. Amen

Exactly the point I was trying to prove.

Paul was directly addressing the Corinthian church and not as a general standard that women shouldn't lead churches.

GreatAchiever1:
Of course, this I agree with it. The scripture is all laid out with biblical gender roles and if I should ask you regarding this topic, what is your stance on this because you came in to my mention with an attacking mentality without stating your own stance.

Remove the all. Things that are not clearly defined is what you will call all laid out.

Lamasta:
We are just going back and forth on this issue, my point is that Jesus did not specifically instructed that females should not pastor a church; Him choosing 12 males to disciple does not necessarily mean he relegated women in the work of the ministry that's why I sited to you I Corinthians 13: 9 cos we only know in part.....

You don't understand the import of that verse! 1Corinthans 13:9

Paul wrote this letter around 60-66 c.e. that's around three decades after Jesus' death so the Bible (Complete Scriptures) has not been completed which means all what they knew as at that time is still INCOMPLETE since the Bible has not been complete the inspiration continues until around 98 c.e. by that time Paul has been killed when John the apostle wrote his letters and gospel.

That's what Paul meant not that we will now abandon the standard Jesus laid down and start practicing what is not in his teachings.

Whether you like it or not a teacher does not need to say everything by words his actions also teaches intelligent students as they watches everything he does not just words! 1Peter 2:21