₦airaland Forum

TenQ:
Then you should be able to answer the question:
Was the Qur'an of Abubakar (by recitation) IDENTICAL with the Qur'an (by recitation) COLLECTED by Mohammed?

Both were without marks nor dots nor diacritical marks!

You sure didn't read. I imagine you got lost in the responses to your usual charade of questions. Never seeing one question through before adding multiple others.

honesttalk21:
Yes though I question your collected by Muhammad pbuh to understand it's full scope and meaning.

TenQ:
This statement is much closer to the TRUTH than what is peddled by your Islamic Scholars.

Every ancient text before the age of printing MUST havevariants, spelling errors, missing words, additional words etc because the writers are human and unintentional mistakes.


BUT, there is ANOTHER problem!
This is NOT expected for the Qur'an because Allah himself promised to protect the Qur'an by himself!

Did Allah's Promise of protecting the Qur'an fail?

What I highlighted is not within my answer but atypical of your characteristic mischief.

Allah never fails in fulfilling what he says.

The Qur’an has been preserved exactly as revealed—within the limits of the aḥruf and qiraat taught by the Prophet.

All authentic differences are part of the revealed Qur’an,any non-authorized or fabricated variants are not part of the Qur’an.
Hence, preservation is perfect and this concept is multifaceted.

TenQ:
Can you as a muslim differentiate between qiraat and ahruf?

No, probably not, can you kindly teach me and other Muslims too. Rable rouser who depends on misconceptions if not outright false presentation.

TenQ:
If seun is not careful, people will lose interest in his site.

After spending time to make a response, someone who calls himself a Moderator will now unilaterally delete this post with no warning nor reason other than they dont like the post post is evil at its core!

What is a Muslim Moderator doing at the core of the Christian Section of Nairaland?

Not only that, you won't know they later deleted your post because it will first appear for some time - unless you go back and check after some time. What an INSIDIOUS and dishonest way of doing things!

honesttalk21:
You sure didn't read. I imagine you got lost in the responses to your usual charade of questions. Never seeing one question through before adding multiple others.

Don't forget what you said earlier:

honesttalk21:
....
The term identical refers to a binary condition—something is either identical or it isn't. On the other hand, closely reflecting suggests a range of similarity, showing a strong resemblance without requiring complete sameness.

The Qur’an as preserved across through generations is not identical in form (due to ahruf/qiraat), but it is identical in divine message, structure, meaning, and recited wording within the authorized scope.

What you have said here is that the Qur'an is NOT identical by words but is Identical in Message, Structure, meaning and recited wording (which itself is self contradictory)

Not identical by words but is Identical by wordings.

Let me assume you mean YES that the Qur'an of Abubakar is identical in words with the Qur'an of Mohammed.


1. Is it true that Ubbay was the best Reciter of the Four acclaimed by Mohammed? How come some of what he recited was not included in the Qur'an of Abubakar?
Sahih al-Bukhari 5005
Narrated Ibn `Abbas:
`Umar said, Ubai was the best of us in the recitation (of the Qur'an) yet we leave some of what he recites.' Ubai says, 'I have taken it from the mouth of Allah's Messenger and will not leave for anything whatever." But Allah said "None of Our Revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten but We substitute something better or similar." Quran 2.106

Again: How come some of what Ubayy the best Reciter recited was not included in the Qur'an of Abubakar?


If my understanding is correct:
The Qira'at is the Style of recitation AND it should not change either the meaning or the texts of the Qur'an: do you disagree with this?

The problem is that
2. Mohammed received the Qur'an in SEVEN Ahruf as Muslims has not strength to receive the Qur'an in one Ahruf. Each Ahruf may have several Qira'at of recitation.
Which of the seven Ahruf of the Qur'an of Mohammed did Abubakar record?

3. Let's assume Abubakar chose on Ahruf of Mohammed, what happened to the other SIX Ahruf of the Qur'an of Mohammed: are they lost?

4. Was the verse of breastfeeding an adult man ten times or five times by a woman in the Qur'an of Abubakar?

5. So, knowing that Qira'at should not change the words of the Ahruf of the Qur'an, what was the "not fundamental" differences between the Qur'an of Mohammed and the Qur'an of Abubakar?

Note:
I am examining the claim of a letter for letter, dot for dot, diacritical mark for diacritical mark identical nature of the Qur'an of Mohammed and the Qur'an of today's Muslims!

honesttalk21:
What I highlighted is not within my answer but atypical of your characteristic mischief.

Allah never fails in fulfilling what he says.

The Qur’an has been preserved exactly as revealed—within the limits of the aḥruf and qiraat taught by the Prophet.

All authentic differences are part of the revealed Qur’an,any non-authorized or fabricated variants are not part of the Qur’an.
Hence, preservation is perfect and this concept is multifaceted.

I hope I heard you correctly that
All authentic differences are part of the revealed Qur’an,any non-authorized or fabricated variants are not part of the Qur’an

Please answer my questions directly:
1. How many [i]kalam Allah exist in paradise
2. Of the about 36 Arabic Qur'an in existence of which Hafs Qur'an and Warsh Qur'an are the most popular, which version is the exact copy of Kalam Allah in paradise.
3. Do you concur that authentic differences are first differences: and differences are deviations from the original?[/i]
4. Can you give me a list of three to five fabricated verses of the Qur'an with solid evidences?


Differences in the Qur'an mean that Allah couldn't protect his book as he promised!

honesttalk21:
No, probably not, can you kindly teach me and other Muslims too. Rable rouser who depends on misconceptions if not outright false presentation.

You are the Muslim; after all, you will still say that my definition is not the meaning

Can you as a muslim differentiate between qiraat and ahruf?

TenQ:
Don't forget what you said earlier:


What you have said here is that the Qur'an is NOT identical by words but is Identical in Message, Structure, meaning and recited wording (which itself is self contradictory)

Not identical by words but is Identical by wordings.

Let me assume you mean YES that the Qur'an of Abubakar is identical in words with the Qur'an of Mohammed.


1. Is it true that Ubbay was the best Reciter of the Four acclaimed by Mohammed? How come some of what he recited was not included in the Qur'an of Abubakar?
Sahih al-Bukhari 5005
Narrated Ibn `Abbas:
`Umar said, Ubai was the best of us in the recitation (of the Qur'an) yet we leave some of what he recites.' Ubai says, 'I have taken it from the mouth of Allah's Messenger and will not leave for anything whatever." But Allah said "None of Our Revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten but We substitute something better or similar." Quran 2.106

Again: How come some of what Ubayy the best Reciter recited was not included in the Qur'an of Abubakar?


If my understanding is correct:
The Qira'at is the Style of recitation AND it should not change either the meaning or the texts of the Qur'an: do you disagree with this?

The problem is that
2. Mohammed received the Qur'an in SEVEN Ahruf as Muslims has not strength to receive the Qur'an in one Ahruf. Each Ahruf may have several Qira'at of recitation.
Which of the seven Ahruf of the Qur'an of Mohammed did Abubakar record?

3. Let's assume Abubakar chose on Ahruf of Mohammed, what happened to the other SIX Ahruf of the Qur'an of Mohammed: are they lost?

4. Was the verse of breastfeeding an adult man ten times or five times by a woman in the Qur'an of Abubakar?

5. So, knowing that Qira'at should not change the words of the Ahruf of the Qur'an, what was the "not fundamental" differences between the Qur'an of Mohammed and the Qur'an of Abubakar?

Note:
I am examining the claim of a letter for letter, dot for dot, diacritical mark for diacritical mark identical nature of the Qur'an of Mohammed and the Qur'an of today's Muslims!

You are no longer certain of your understanding of the Qiraat, though you left the ahruf? Was really banking on you teaching me LOL

QuinQQ:
Not only that, you won't know they later deleted your post because it will first appear for some time - unless you go back and check after some time. What an INSIDIOUS and dishonest way of doing things!

They have done that for me. The text was deleted the next day after I made the post.

Unfortunately, I didn't keep a copy. This was when I began to suspect that those deletions were not by Bots but by Muslim Moderators

TenQ:
They have done that for me. The text was deleted the next day after I made the post.

Unfortunately, I didn't keep a copy. This was when I began to suspect that those deletions were not by Bots but by Muslim Moderators

They’ve been doing same to me, that’s why I left their religion exposé alone, one day truth will catch up with their lies

honesttalk21:
You are no longer certain of your understanding of the Qiraat, though you left the ahruf? Was really banking on you teaching me LOL

I wasn't teaching you the difference between the Ahruf and the Qira'at,

So, please answer my Questions (Five of them)


Don't forget what you said earlier:

....
The term identical refers to a binary condition—something is either identical or it isn't. On the other hand, closely reflecting suggests a range of similarity, showing a strong resemblance without requiring complete sameness.

The Qur’an as preserved across through generations is not identical in form (due to ahruf/qiraat), but it is identical in divine message, structure, meaning, and recited wording within the authorized scope.

What you have said here is that the Qur'an is NOT identical by words but is Identical in Message, Structure, meaning and recited wording (which itself is self contradictory)

Not identical by words but is Identical by wordings.

Let me assume you mean YES that the Qur'an of Abubakar is identical in words with the Qur'an of Mohammed.


1. Is it true that Ubbay was the best Reciter of the Four acclaimed by Mohammed? How come some of what he recited was not included in the Qur'an of Abubakar?
Sahih al-Bukhari 5005
Narrated Ibn `Abbas:
`Umar said, Ubai was the best of us in the recitation (of the Qur'an) yet we leave some of what he recites.' Ubai says, 'I have taken it from the mouth of Allah's Messenger and will not leave for anything whatever." But Allah said "None of Our Revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten but We substitute something better or similar." Quran 2.106

Again: How come some of what Ubayy the best Reciter recited was not included in the Qur'an of Abubakar?


If my understanding is correct:
The Qira'at is the Style of recitation AND it should not change either the meaning or the texts of the Qur'an: do you disagree with this?

The problem is that
2. Mohammed received the Qur'an in SEVEN Ahruf as Muslims has not strength to receive the Qur'an in one Ahruf. Each Ahruf may have several Qira'at of recitation.
Which of the seven Ahruf of the Qur'an of Mohammed did Abubakar record?

3. Let's assume Abubakar chose on Ahruf of Mohammed, what happened to the other SIX Ahruf of the Qur'an of Mohammed: are they lost?

4. Was the verse of breastfeeding an adult man ten times or five times by a woman in the Qur'an of Abubakar?

5. So, knowing that Qira'at should not change the words of the Ahruf of the Qur'an, what was the "not fundamental" differences between the Qur'an of Mohammed and the Qur'an of Abubakar?

Note:
I am examining the claim of a letter for letter, dot for dot, diacritical mark for diacritical mark identical nature of the Qur'an of Mohammed and the Qur'an of today's Muslims!

TenQ:
If seun is not careful, people will lose interest in his site.

After spending time to make a response, someone who calls himself a Moderator will now unilaterally delete this post with no warning nor reason other than they dont like the post post is evil at its core!

What is a Muslim Moderator doing at the core of the Christian Section of Nairaland?

Valid question

Na so dem slam me 10 years ban from commenting on Islam section, till date they didn’t tell me the offence that warranted 10 years ban

Seun is a former Christian who has decided to allow his Muslims moderators to mistreat Christians.

They should all continue

advocatejare:
Valid question

Na so dem slam me 10 years ban from commenting on Islam section, till date they didn’t tell me the offence that warranted 10 years ban

Seun is a former Christian who has decided hto allow his Muslims moderators to mistreat Christians.

They should all continue

He is afraid of Muslims is an understatement!
I think it is fair to tell anyone his offence if and when their post received a ban!

Sorry Mr JimRohn,
Try and be more gentle in speech. The Nairaland bots probably flagged your post

You asked a question '
The Question was answered very well sparing no details

QuinQQ:
TenQ don't mind him. He's always asking this hypocritical question. Ok, he's a Hindu. Now what?
Next, he'll bring up ancient history. Comparing apples and cars. Comparing peace-focused Christianity to a religion that has always been bloody, that has been very bloody from it's inception till today!

Before I answer the question, which religion are you practicing?

I will not respond unless I know which side you belong.

QuinQQ:
TenQ don't mind him. He's always asking this hypocritical question. Ok, he's a Hindu. Now what?
Next, he'll bring up ancient history. Comparing apples and cars. Comparing peace-focused Christianity to a religion that has always been bloody, that has been very bloody from it's inception till today!

QuinQQ,

To better understand your question and provide a relevant response, could you please clarify the context or perspective you're approaching from? This will enable me to offer a more accurate and helpful answer.

JimRohn:
QuinQQ,

To better understand your question and provide a relevant response, could you please clarify the context or perspective you're approaching from? This will enable me to offer a more accurate and helpful answer.

Is this an excuse not to engage him.

At least you know that he's not an atheist and he's not a Muslim.

So, what's your problem!

Me that answered you, you have evaded engagement with!

JimRohn:
Quin

To better understand your question and provide a relevant response, could you please clarify the context or perspective you're approaching from? This will enable me to offer a more accurate and helpful answer.

😅 I told u I'm sure you'd just be having yourself a good laugh while typing some of this stuff!🤣
Ok, I'm a Shintoist. Now answer my own question:
What is a smart guy like you doing defending a pedophilic, extremely misogynistic, fatwa-ish religion soaked in blood since it's inception??
A very devout Muslim wrote the book "Satanic Verses" because he KNEW that's exactly what they are!

JimRohn:
QuinQQ,

To better understand your question and provide a relevant response, could you please clarify the context or perspective you're approaching from? This will enable me to offer a more accurate and helpful answer.

My post was deleted and I was banned as usual. This is it for me guys. I'm out. Goodluck to you and TenQ.
Seun goodluck with your forum

QuinQ:
My post was deleted and I was banned as usual. This is it for me guys. I'm out. Goodluck to you and TenQ.
Seun goodluck with your forum

QuinQQ,

Share your religious background or perspective so I can better understand your question!

TenQ:
Is this an excuse not to engage him.

At least you know that he's not an atheist and he's not a Muslim.

So, what's your problem!

Me that answered you, you have evaded engagement with!

TenQ,

You are a descendant of fabricators—falsehood runs in your blood. I never expected sincerity or intellect from someone whose lineage is soaked in deceit.

I stopped responding because Islam teaches us not to waste words on the ignorant. As Allah says: 'And when the ignorant address them, they say words of peace' (Qur'an 25:63).

But make no mistake—any person of reason who reads our exchange will see who is truly misguided and mentally bankrupt. And it’s not me.

Truth stands clear from error (Qur’an 2:256), and you are the embodiment of that error.

Mr JimRohn,
Can you tone down your response a little. The Nairaland SpamBots seem to be flagging you

Don't repost exactly your last post. It should go through

TenQ:
I wasn't teaching you the difference between the Ahruf and the Qira'at,

So, please answer my Questions (Five of them)


Don't forget what you said earlier:


What you have said here is that the Qur'an is NOT identical by words but is Identical in Message, Structure, meaning and recited wording (which itself is self contradictory)

Not identical by words but is Identical by wordings.

Let me assume you mean YES that the Qur'an of Abubakar is identical in words with the Qur'an of Mohammed.


1. Is it true that Ubbay was the best Reciter of the Four acclaimed by Mohammed? How come some of what he recited was not included in the Qur'an of Abubakar?
Sahih al-Bukhari 5005
Narrated Ibn `Abbas:
`Umar said, Ubai was the best of us in the recitation (of the Qur'an) yet we leave some of what he recites.' Ubai says, 'I have taken it from the mouth of Allah's Messenger and will not leave for anything whatever." But Allah said "None of Our Revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten but We substitute something better or similar." Quran 2.106

Again: How come some of what Ubayy the best Reciter recited was not included in the Qur'an of Abubakar?


If my understanding is correct:
The Qira'at is the Style of recitation AND it should not change either the meaning or the texts of the Qur'an: do you disagree with this?

The problem is that
2. Mohammed received the Qur'an in SEVEN Ahruf as Muslims has not strength to receive the Qur'an in one Ahruf. Each Ahruf may have several Qira'at of recitation.
Which of the seven Ahruf of the Qur'an of Mohammed did Abubakar record?

3. Let's assume Abubakar chose on Ahruf of Mohammed, what happened to the other SIX Ahruf of the Qur'an of Mohammed: are they lost?

4. Was the verse of breastfeeding an adult man ten times or five times by a woman in the Qur'an of Abubakar?

5. So, knowing that Qira'at should not change the words of the Ahruf of the Qur'an, what was the "not fundamental" differences between the Qur'an of Mohammed and the Qur'an of Abubakar?

Note:
I am examining the claim of a letter for letter, dot for dot, diacritical mark for diacritical mark identical nature of the Qur'an of Mohammed and the Qur'an of today's Muslims!

You seemed to imply you know the Qiraat and Ahruf very well. If this isn't the case I implore you to go learn about these very well then we take it from there.

With respect to what you say was not included from Ubay's collection you must understand that what was left out was not considered Quran by consensus. Just as much what was known to be taught as supplication by the Prophet pbuh,abrogated during the Prophet’s pbuf life.

Do not forget the strict criteria Zaid used that
verses were accepted only if they were written down during the Prophet’s lifetime, and verified by two witnesses (oral and written evidence).

Even Ubayy’s authority didn’t override these criteria. The institutional consensus was prioritized over individual memory, no matter how esteemed.

honesttalk21:
You seemed to imply you know the Qiraat and Ahruf very well. If this isn't the case I implore you to go learn about these very well then we take it from there.

Like I said, I wasn't defining Ahruf nor Qira'at and I am still waiting for you because, you wouldn't accept my definitions anyways!

honesttalk21:
With respect to what you say was not included from Ubay's collection you must understand that what was left out was not considered Quran by consensus. Just as much what was known to be taught as supplication by the Prophet pbuh,abrogated during the Prophet’s pbuf life.

1. Mohammed said take the Qur'an for FOUR and Ubayy was amongst.
2. Another hadith says Ubayy was the BEST Reciter of the Qur'an

But it makes sense that people who are not authorities on the memorisation nor comprehension of the Qur'an formed a consensus to say what should be in the Qur'an and what should not!?

Only in Islam would the knowledge of Wole Soyinka be discarded for the knowledge of the consensus of his learning students about Literature.

honesttalk21:
Do not forget the strict criteria Zaid used that
verses were accepted only if they were written down during the Prophet’s lifetime, and verified by two witnesses (oral and written evidence).

The question remains that the Qur'an was written on pieces of CLOTHES during your prophets Lifetime BUT there was no reference to it thereafter!

Jami` at-Tirmidhi 3954
Narrated Zaid bin Thabit:
"We were with the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) collecting the Qur'an on pieces of cloth, so the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: 'Tuba is for Ash-Sham.' So we said: 'Why is that O Messenger of Allah?' He said: 'Because the angels of Ar-Rahman spread their wings over it.'"

It seems that the method by which these collectors of the Qur'an did their job was by writing the collected Qur'an on pieces of cloth:
Can you tell us why Zaid never mentioned clothes as part of the medium from which they collected the Qur'an from? They mentioned, leafless stalks of the date-palm tree and from the pieces of leather and hides and from the stones, and from the chests of men



There was no criteria during the compilation of the Qur'an by Zaid for Uthman. If there is, let me know. If there was, why would Uthman make a new Qur'an from the scratch?

honesttalk21:
Even Ubayy’s authority didn’t override these criteria. The institutional consensus was prioritized over individual memory, no matter how esteemed.

Muslims override their prophet for the consensus of ordinary men!? This is the problem of the religion of Islam. Allah, Mohammed and the TRUTH doesn't matter to you more than the CONSENSUS of men who call themselves scholars.







YOU DODGED MY OTHER QUESTIONS

If my understanding is correct:
The Qira'at is the Style of recitation AND it should not change either the meaning or the texts of the Qur'an: do you disagree with this?

The problem is that
2. Mohammed received the Qur'an in SEVEN Ahruf as Muslims has not strength to receive the Qur'an in one Ahruf. Each Ahruf may have several Qira'at of recitation.
Which of the seven Ahruf of the Qur'an of Mohammed did Abubakar record?

3. Let's assume Abubakar chose on Ahruf of Mohammed, what happened to the other SIX Ahruf of the Qur'an of Mohammed: are they lost?

4. Was the verse of breastfeeding an adult man ten times or five times by a woman in the Qur'an of Abubakar?

5. So, knowing that Qira'at should not change the words of the Ahruf of the Qur'an, what was the "not fundamental" differences between the Qur'an of Mohammed and the Qur'an of Abubakar?

Note:
I am examining the claim of a letter for letter, dot for dot, diacritical mark for diacritical mark identical nature of the Qur'an of Mohammed and the Qur'an of today's Muslims!

TenQ:
Like I said, I wasn't defining Ahruf nor Qira'at and I am still waiting for you because, you wouldn't accept my definitions anyways!



1. Mohammed said take the Qur'an for FOUR and Ubayy was amongst.
2. Another hadith says Ubayy was the BEST Reciter of the Qur'an

But it makes sense that people who are not authorities on the memorisation nor comprehension of the Qur'an formed a consensus to say what should be in the Qur'an and what should not!?

Only in Islam would the knowledge of Wole Soyinka be discarded for the knowledge of the consensus of his learning students about Literature.



The question remains that the Qur'an was written on pieces of CLOTHES during your prophets Lifetime BUT there was no reference to it thereafter!

There was no criteria during the compilation of the Qur'an by Zaid for Uthman. If there is, let me know. If there was, why would Uthman make a new Qur'an from the scratch?




Muslims override their prophet for the consensus of ordinary men!? This is the problem of the religion of Islam. Allah, Mohammed and the TRUTH doesn't matter to you more than the CONSENSUS of men who call themselves scholars.







YOU DODGED MY OTHER QUESTIONS

If my understanding is correct:
The Qira'at is the Style of recitation AND it should not change either the meaning or the texts of the Qur'an: do you disagree with this?

The problem is that
2. Mohammed received the Qur'an in SEVEN Ahruf as Muslims has not strength to receive the Qur'an in one Ahruf. Each Ahruf may have several Qira'at of recitation.
Which of the seven Ahruf of the Qur'an of Mohammed did Abubakar record?

3. Let's assume Abubakar chose on Ahruf of Mohammed, what happened to the other SIX Ahruf of the Qur'an of Mohammed: are they lost?

4. Was the verse of breastfeeding an adult man ten times or five times by a woman in the Qur'an of Abubakar?

5. So, knowing that Qira'at should not change the words of the Ahruf of the Qur'an, what was the "not fundamental" differences between the Qur'an of Mohammed and the Qur'an of Abubakar?

Note:
I am examining the claim of a letter for letter, dot for dot, diacritical mark for diacritical mark identical nature of the Qur'an of Mohammed and the Qur'an of today's Muslims!

Well I am not looking for a definition but you need sufficient understanding of it to appropriate its significance in line of the compilation. Do go study, at least a year ago you had discussions about it here on nairaland.

Taking the Quran from four doesn't make them singularly authorities or does it? No checks? Come on be realistic. Isn't it possible for them to forget however temporal?

“I am only a human being, and I forget just as you forget. So when I forget, remind me.”
(Sahih al-Bukhari 401)

Al-Suyuti in al-Itqan fi Ulum al-Qur’an also reports
"Even senior reciters like Ubayy, Ibn Mas‘ūd, and Zayd would sometimes forget a verse, and another companion would remind them."

I left out the question on breastfeeding so we don't jumble up things. Let's fully address your queries about the primary compilation before getting into the extensions.

You are examining the letter for letter, dot for dot etc. on what exact premise though?

advocatejare:
You’re beating a dead horse.

They should keep deleting our posts and banning us for decades, they can’t bury the truth, if they do it will sprout like a buried seed.

At least, the supermoderators should check if it is true that some moderators are doing Jihad with Nairaland.
LOL!

honesttalk21:
Well I am not looking for a definition but you need sufficient understanding of it to appropriate its significance in line of the compilation. Do go study, at least a year ago you had discussions about it here on nairaland.

Tell me you don't know the difference between Ahruf and the Qira'at otherwise, keep quiet as I wasn't defining it for you. I have asked you as a Muslim to provide a solid definition: ten years later, I am still waiting!

honesttalk21:
Taking the Quran from four doesn't make them singularly authorities or does it? No checks? Come on be realistic. Isn't it possible for them to forget however temporal?

Does your prophet say anything pertaining to Islam without being led by Allah?
So, when your prophet gives an instruction about the Qur'an, you must know that he is led by Allah.
You think Allah and his prophet know why you should take your Qur'an from the four rather than from the consensus of a mob?

Only in Islam does it make sense to discard the opinion of Wole Soyinka in literature for the opinion of the consensus of his students.

honesttalk21:
“I am only a human being, and I forget just as you forget. So when I forget, remind me.”
(Sahih al-Bukhari 401)

Which one should we believe now, the Qur'an or the Hadith
Qur'an 87:6-7
"We will make you recite, [O Muhammad], and you will not forget, except what Allah wills. He knows all that is manifest and all that is hidden."

Except there was no Kitab Allah/Umm al-Kitab in the first place and it is another lie that the Qur'an is uncreated and eternal.

Tell me?
Are abrogated verses in the Qur'an in paradise or not?

honesttalk21:
Al-Suyuti in al-Itqan fi Ulum al-Qur’an also reports
"Even senior reciters like Ubayy, Ibn Mas‘ūd, and Zayd would sometimes forget a verse, and another companion would remind them."

But this is contradicting your claim of perfect memorisation of the Qur'an. If the best four Muslims are unreliable with their memories. How faulty the Qur'an would be!

So, was the Qur'an perfectly memorised by many Muslims or the best Muslims forget the Qur'an?

honesttalk21:
I left out the question on breastfeeding so we don't jumble up things. Let's fully address your queries about the primary compilation before getting into the extensions.

You are examining the letter for letter, dot for dot etc. on what exact premise though?

Don't leave it out as it is well connected. Breastfeeding an adult man ten times was initially revealed to Mohammed and it was abrogated to five times in the Qur'an recited by Mohammed.

Does the Qur'an of Abubakar contain the verses of breastfeeding adults?



DON'T AVOID MY QUERIES
The problem is that
2. Mohammed received the Qur'an in SEVEN Ahruf as Muslims has not strength to receive the Qur'an in one Ahruf. Each Ahruf may have several Qira'at of recitation.
Which of the seven Ahruf of the Qur'an of Mohammed did Abubakar record?

3. Let's assume Abubakar chose on Ahruf of Mohammed, what happened to the other SIX Ahruf of the Qur'an of Mohammed: are they lost?

4. Was the verse of breastfeeding an adult man ten times or five times by a woman in the Qur'an of Abubakar?

5. So, knowing that Qira'at should not change the words of the Ahruf of the Qur'an, what was the "not fundamental" differences between the Qur'an of Mohammed and the Qur'an of Abubakar?

Note:
I am examining the claim of a letter for letter, dot for dot, diacritical mark for diacritical mark identical nature of the Qur'an of Mohammed and the Qur'an of today's Muslims!

TenQ:
Tell me you don't know the difference between Ahruf and the Qira'at otherwise, keep quiet as I wasn't defining it for you. I have asked you as a Muslim to provide a solid definition: ten years later, I am still waiting!

Oh you are now changing your tone as you are unable to understand it yourself and constituting yourself into a monstrous nuisance? Sorry it won't work. You even clearly lie in black and white as you have been doing (ten years later?) So you are just displaying oral diarrhoea when you refer to it in your responses?
Go and deeply study it yourself first then ask humbly and nicely about what confuses you.

TenQ:
Does your prophet say anything pertaining to Islam without being led by Allah?
So, when your prophet gives an instruction about the Qur'an, you must know that he is led by Allah.
You think Allah and his prophet know why you should take your Qur'an from the four rather than from the consensus of a mob?

What is the problem? You now start to feign why the particular four were recognised and their individual strengths on the Quran? Please go and restudy why or keep shut and stop feigning deep knowledge as you are actually ignorant.

You overstate the truth. Was Ubay discarded or it was agreed and known what was or wasn't actually part of the Quran and what was a separate supplication?

Your analogy with Soyinka is faulty but not unexpected. Kindly tell who the higher and revered authority Soyinka learnt from.

TenQ:
Which one should we believe now, the Qur'an or the Hadith
Qur'an 87:6-7
"We will make you recite, [O Muhammad], and you will not forget, except what Allah wills. He knows all that is manifest and all that is hidden."

Now you are hopelessly getting confused. Firsr go and understand the meaning of the Quran verse you shared then explain why you refer to it but don't accept Quran 15:9 Indeed, it is We who sent down the Qur’an and indeed, We will be its guardian? Seems you are now getting terribly desperate and confused.

TenQ:
Tell me?
Are abrogated verses in the Qur'an in paradise or not?

Clearly showing your poor understanding of what you pride yourself authoritatively in ignorance.

TenQ:
But this is contradicting your claim of perfect memorisation of the Qur'an. If the best four Muslims are unreliable with their memories. How faulty the Qur'an would be!

So, was the Qur'an perfectly memorised by many Muslims or the best Muslims forget the Qur'an?

Sadly you are pathetically now confused.
Ubayy ibn Kaʿb was known for his remarkable ability to memorize the Quran, making him one of the top four reciters during the time of the Prophet. But just like anyone else, he too could experience moments of forgetfulness. The fact that was acknowledged even by the Prophet pbuh himself

TenQ:
Don't leave it out as it is well connected. Breastfeeding an adult man ten times was initially revealed to Mohammed and it was abrogated to five times in the Qur'an recited by Mohammed.

Does the Qur'an of Abubakar contain the verses of breastfeeding adults?

This answer as stated is deferred to a later time. Can you build a house without first building the foundation?

TenQ:
2. Mohammed received the Qur'an in SEVEN Ahruf as Muslims has not strength to receive the Qur'an in one Ahruf. Each Ahruf may have several Qira'at of recitation.
Which of the seven Ahruf of the Qur'an of Mohammed did Abubakar record?

3. Let's assume Abubakar chose on Ahruf of Mohammed, what happened to the other SIX Ahruf of the Qur'an of Mohammed: are they lost?

4. Was the verse of breastfeeding an adult man ten times or five times by a woman in the Qur'an of Abubakar?

5. So, knowing that Qira'at should not change the words of the Ahruf of the Qur'an, what was the "not fundamental" differences between the Qur'an of Mohammed and the Qur'an of Abubakar?

Note:
I am examining the claim of a letter for letter, dot for dot, diacritical mark for diacritical mark identical nature of the Qur'an of Mohammed and the Qur'an of today's Muslims!

Your following repeated questions though now rephrased show you have started restudying the Ahruf and Qiraat. Don't be in a hurry but patiently study and learn.