₦airaland Forum

Gabrielshow24:
'cause according to Jano, he is an Angel 😂, part of the foremost angels. They even have this theory, Primus conventus, that explains the ludicrous details🧐—you should read it, it's a "good" read👀. Also, Max is the custodian of such a book!

To contribute to this thread: I believe when God is ready he will change their minds👀 but for now, he doesn't have their time. By the time they see things that their intellect cannot explain, that their standards(empiricism) falls short on. They will know there is more!!!

By the way, kudos for engaging them. Keep up the good work!

Thank you very much.
No mind MaxIndhouse and Janosky. They have wisely disappeared. The truth eventually triumphs. You can talk non sequitur for only so long!😆

tctrills:
There is war in the middle east because Samson killed the Philistines??

Is that what I said?

It's clear you are looking for every means to change this topic. You blame Samson for the problems in the middle east.

LoLz. Not even close to what I said or meant. I said the Samson killing Philistines story does not bring anybody peace. Can you sincerely claim that people read the story of Samson decide that peace with their neighbours is the best course of action?

I followed up by saying that it is part of the reason there is problem in the Middle East. Are you going to claim that the fighting in that story and the fighting in real life are not intertwined? That there is not a tradition the has insisted that the Levant was a gift of the god Yahweh to his so called chosen people Israel? A tradition that purportedly drove Samson to be a champion for his people? Come on now don't feign modesty now. You people believe they were commanded to slaughter all the people that were there before, why are you now clutching your pearls like an old white woman.

Again, you completely miss the point. Even if Islam overtakes Christianity, it doesn't remove the fact that the bible despite the imperfections of the writers, despite the extreme persecution of the early Christian remains the most influential book on earth. This is proof that it's writers were inspired. The bible was not even supposed to be this powerful. It couldn't be stopped by Roman oppression. Very few books have had such impact.

It is the most influential because some of the most powerful empires of our history pushed this book on the point of a sword.

Yes you final point is very correct, popularity is not indication of truth. So let me ask you, how do you know eternal truths?

I dunno what you mean by eternal truth. Tell me what you mean with an example or two and maybe I an tell you.

Since you can't even recognize eternal truths, I was not even making that argument.

Eh, Well I dunno what you so yeah can't recognise what I dunno.

My point here was that despite the flaws of it's writers, the bible remains an inspired work. We can argue if it was inspired by God or not but the wise words of Jesus Christ shines forth here. By their fruits ye shall know them.
The fruits of the bible are beyond anything human. It is clearly inspired.

There are other inspirational books, what the Bible has going for it that it was pushed by the largest world power the world has seen so far and before that some other powerful empires also pushed it. Do you think if the Indians had been the ones in the place of say the British Empire you would see the same widespread nature of the Bible? No you won't. For example you can see it in all the places where the British Empire made scant or no ininroads, the Bible doesn't have a strong presence there eg China, Japan, Mongolia, most of Northern Africa, the Middle East, etc.

I can argue that the Quran was inspired but by who?

All religious text have the same sort of inspiration: the need to preserve culture and tradition. None of them are divinely inspired , they are all the works of men.

FreeIgboho:
I don't, neither do you. But the one person in all of human history who was foretold hundreds of years before his coming. And when he came had attributes we associate with God, said he knew and told us. Who is nonsensical, the person who believes him or the person who doesn't believe him based on nebulous "incoherent" determined by his unknowing self?

The person who believes while telling me his brain cannot comprehend reality is the nonsensical one.

tctrills:
So Harry Potter is the book you feel meets the standard of the bible. Please explain how Harry Potter even comes close. I don't even see your point here please throw more light

Dude I just used Harry Potter to illustrate a point. Writing about a particular theme has been done from the time we as humans started writing. I am not seeing why you think it is a reason the Bible is divinely inspired. People from all over the world write books on particular themes without meeting themselves why do you think geographical spread makes the authourship of the Bible remarkable? Are you saying subsequent authors never read the works the authors who came before them? Which can't be the case since they do make references to the past books so I at loss to why you find this compelling.

DeepSight:
In addittion to what Reed has said, the truth is that because the Roman Curia carefully editted the contents of the Bible, it was possible to maintain certain themes while excluding much that was contrary.

Ask him if he believes in the books of the Apocrypha or any of the other gospels and Christian writings that didn't make it into the 66 book compendium assembled by committee.

LordReed:
Dude I just used Harry Potter to illustrate a point. Writing about a particular theme has been done from the time we as humans started writing. I am not seeing why you think it is a reason the Bible is divinely inspired. People from all over the world write books on particular themes without meeting themselves why do you think geographical spread makes the authourship of the Bible remarkable? Are you saying subsequent authors never read the works the authors who came before them? Which can't be the case since they do make references to the past books so I at loss to why you find this compelling.

I asked you to give me a book that was written over a span 2000 years by over 60 writers and still keeps it's theme and the best you could come up with is Harry Potter. You just made my point, you have nothing to compare with the bible. Nothing comes close.
Please take some time, do some research and come up with something better than Harry Potter.

[quote author=LordReed post=136004293]Is that what I said?



LoLz. Not even close to what I said or meant. I said the Samson killing Philistines story does not bring anybody peace. Can you sincerely claim that people read the story of Samson decide that peace with their neighbours is the best course of action?

I followed up by saying that it is part of the reason there is problem in the Middle East. Are you going to claim that the fighting in that story and the fighting in real life are not intertwined? That there is not a tradition the has insisted that the Levant was a gift of the god Yahweh to his so called chosen people Israel? A tradition that purportedly drove Samson to be a champion for his people? Come on now don't feign modesty now. You people believe they were commanded to slaughter all the people that were there before, why are you now clutching your pearls like an old white woman.

Again, you are so wrong. And the fact that Samson was given strength to fight his enemy is somehow a reason for war 3000 years ago shows the lengths you are prepared to go in an argument, even when it makes no sense. I honestly don't know how to respond to your twisted logic. According to you, if Samson had not killed the Philistines, the Middle East would be the most peaceful place on earth.


It is the most influential because some of the most powerful empires of our history pushed this book to the point of a sword.

Wrong again, Christianity suffered decades of being the most persecuted religion. It survived and even thrived. For 300 years, Christians were persecuted, yet the religion grew. So the influence began even before Constantine.


I dunno what you mean by eternal truth. Tell me what you mean with an example or two and maybe I an tell you.



Eh, Well I dunno what you so yeah can't recognise what I dunno.
My point exactly so lets keep the debate to what you know



There are other inspirational books, what the Bible has going for it that it was pushed by the largest world power the world has seen so far and before that some other powerful empires also pushed it. Do you think if the Indians had been the ones in the place of say the British Empire you would see the same widespread nature of the Bible? No you won't. For example you can see it in all the places where the British Empire made scant or no ininroads, the Bible doesn't have a strong presence there eg China, Japan, Mongolia, most of Northern Africa, the Middle East, etc.
I already told you, even before the first emperor became a Christian. Even when being a Christian put a target on your back, from day one, the religion was spreading and gaining influence. This explains why Christianity is the fastest-growing religion in Iran, a country where being a Christian is Haram. Geographically, Iran is closer to Buddhist and Hindu populations. It doesn't need kings and empires.



All religious text have the same sort of inspiration: the need to preserve culture and tradition. None of them are divinely inspired, they are all the works of men.
Your opinion
Then again, you are wrong. The writings of the Apostles and prophets are inspired by God, and millions of lives have been lifted, healed, and saved by their words.

LordReed:
The person who believes while telling me his brain cannot comprehend reality is the nonsensical one.

That's just an attribute of humans. But it doesn't matter. What matters is that I believe based on evidence NOT based on the very limited and unknowing reasoning of humans, which is what your unbelief is based on!

FreeIgboho:
That's just an attribute of humans. But it doesn't matter. What matters is that I believe based on evidence NOT based on the very limited and unknowing reasoning of humans, which is what your unbelief is based on!

LoLz. What evidence? A story? Bwahahahahahaha!

FreeIgboho:
Yes I did. The flaw is that they don't claim Paul was also not a real person. The problem with claiming Jesus never existed is the existence of people like Paul!
Maxindhouse and Janosky will like it. Lordreed will love it. tctrills, Dtruthspeaker, what you think of it?..

This is where people have to remember it is he who alleges is the one with the duty of proving.

The bible clearly states that at least 12 principal people were with Him at all times in addition to public sightings.

Then, the most material evidence is the fact that when this report first came up no one at the material time came up to oppose and say that it is not true. So no one today who was not there at the material time can validly stand up to deny this fact.

And that is because there are many thing which lock and secure all Truths. And one of them is called estoppel.

So all those trying to attack this settled fact are already looking stu... as they can never discharge the burden of proof. It's all noise making generated to make shallow people fall

FreeIgboho:
That's just an attribute of humans. But it doesn't matter. What matters is that I believe based on evidence NOT based on the very limited and unknowing reasoning of humans, which is what your unbelief is based on!

Reasoning is also evidence.

tctrills:
I asked you to give me a book that was written over a span 2000 years by over 60 writers and still keeps it's theme and the best you could come up with is Harry Potter. You just made my point, you have nothing to compare with the bible. Nothing comes close.
Please take some time, do some research and come up with something better than Harry Potter.

Some how it seems you prefer to fight over inanities than actually progressing a conversation. I already said I was not giving Harry Potter as an example of a book written 2000 years ago. I mean why are things like this hard for you to grasp? The point was writing around a theme is not special.

Nor is the age special. We have been doing this stretching back since the dawn of writing.

But since you are asking for a book from 2000 years ago then let's look at the Hindu scriptures. The oldest was written at about 1800BCE which makes it even older than any book of the Bible and is still in use today (almost 4000 years later) by more than 1 billion Hindu so I dunno why you think the age of the Bible or the number of authors are special.

LordReed:
Some how it seems you prefer to fight over inanities than actually progressing a conversation. I already said I was not giving Harry Potter as an example of a book written 2000 years ago. I mean why are things like this hard for you to grasp? The point was writing around a theme is not special.

Nor is the age special. We have been doing this stretching back since the dawn of writing.

But since you are asking for a book from 2000 years ago then let's look at the Hindu scriptures. The oldest was written at about 1800BCE which makes it even older than any book of the Bible and is still in use today (almost 4000 years later) by more than 1 billion Hindu so I dunno why you think the age of the Bible or the number of authors are special.

GBAM!

Dtruthspeaker:
This is where people have to remember it is he who alleges is the one with the duty of proving.

The bible clearly states that at least 12 principal people were with Him at all times in addition to public sightings.

Then, the most material evidence is the fact that when this report first came up no one at the material time came up to oppose and say that it is not true. So no one today who was not there at the material time can validly stand up to deny this fact.

And that is because there are many thing which lock and secure all Truths. And one of them is called estoppel.

So all those trying to attack this settled fact are already looking stu... as they can never discharge the burden of proof. It's all noise making generated to make shallow people fall

Please don't try to use the legal doctrine of estoppel carelessly and wrongly.

LordReed:
Some how it seems you prefer to fight over inanities than actually progressing a conversation. I already said I was not giving Harry Potter as an example of a book written 2000 years ago. I mean why are things like this hard for you to grasp? The point was writing around a theme is not special.

Nor is the age special. We have been doing this stretching back since the dawn of writing.

But since you are asking for a book from 2000 years ago then let's look at the Hindu scriptures. The oldest was written at about 1800BCE which makes it even older than any book of the Bible and is still in use today (almost 4000 years later) by more than 1 billion Hindu so I dunno why you think the age of the Bible or the number of authors are special.

So we both agree that Harry Potter does not meet my conditions now to your next book the Hindu scripture, again doesn't meet the conditions I gave. I did not ask you to name me a book older than the bible that is still used today. Please read again the conditions and attempt the question the third time.

tctrills:
So we both agree that Harry Potter does not meet my conditions now to your next book the Hindu scripture, again doesn't meet the conditions I gave. I did not ask you to name me a book older than the bible that is still used today. Please read again the conditions and attempt the question the third time.

LoLz. Which condition does the the Hindu scriptures not fulfil? Age or multiple authors over a long span?

LordReed:
LoLz. Which condition does the the Hindu scriptures not fulfil? Age or multiple authors over a long span?

Let's begin with the name of the Hindu scripture.
Tell me the authors.
What was there message.
The theme?
What's the span?
Then we would consider the controversies amongst the various writers.
I honestly know nothing about the Hindu scripture please educate me

tctrills:
Let's begin with the name of the Hindu scripture.
Tell me the authors.
What was there message.
The theme?
What's the span?
Then we would consider the controversies amongst the various writers.
I honestly know nothing about the Hindu scripture please educate me

The Hindu scriptures are composited of multiple book just like the Bible. The foundational text are the Vedas then there is the Principal Upanishads, the Agamas and the Bhagavad Gita as well as Bhagavata Purana and Yajnavalkya Smirti. There is also the Shastras, Sutras, Tantras, Puranas, Itihasas, Stotras, Subhashitas and others.

Hindu scriptures primarily convey messages about dharma (righteous conduct), karma (action and consequence), moksha (liberation from the cycle of rebirth), and the interconnectedness of all beings. They emphasize the importance of self-realization, knowledge, and devotion to God.

Written over the span of about 1800 years.

Why are we considering the controversies amongst the writers are we going to consider the Bible books you don't believe in?

I am not Hindu so anything I can tell you you can equally find for yourself. My primary aim is to show you that the special pedestal you place the Christian Bible on is unfounded. Anything else you can read up on your own.

LordReed:
The Hindu scriptures are composited of multiple book just like the Bible. The foundational text are the Vedas then there is the Principal Upanishads, the Agamas and the Bhagavad Gita as well as Bhagavata Purana and Yajnavalkya Smirti. There is also the Shastras, Sutras, Tantras, Puranas, Itihasas, Stotras, Subhashitas and others.

Hindu scriptures primarily convey messages about dharma (righteous conduct), karma (action and consequence), moksha (liberation from the cycle of rebirth), and the interconnectedness of all beings. They emphasize the importance of self-realization, knowledge, and devotion to God.

Written over the span of about 1800 years.

Why are we considering the controversies amongst the writers are we going to consider the Bible books you don't believe in?

I am not Hindu so anything I can tell you you can equally find for yourself. My primary aim is to show you that the special pedestal you place the Christian Bible on is unfounded. Anything else you can read up on your own.

From your feel you don't even know so much about the Hindu scripture or scriptures so it is funny you use it. I will read about it and reply you.

tctrills:
From your feel you don't even know so much about the Hindu scripture or scriptures so it is funny you use it. I will read about it and reply you.

LoLz. So what if I don't know much about it? You choose the funniest things to argue about.

LordReed:
LoLz. What evidence? A story? Bwahahahahahaha!

So OT and people of it also never existed? OK o

FreeIgboho:
So OT and people of it also never existed? OK o

Dude if your evidence is the stories of the Bible especially the OT then you are more lost than I thought.

DeepSight:
Please don't try to use the legal doctrine of estoppel carelessly and wrongly.

How am I using estoppel wrongly? And I hope you are not thinking that estoppel is only used in courts as your basis of objection

LordReed:
Dude if your evidence is the stories of the Bible especially the OT then you are more lost than I thought.

So Israelites have been fools all this time reading the Torah and Tanakh!
Who woulda thunk it!!

Dtruthspeaker:
Reasoning is also evidence.

Same reasoning that deceives you into thinking anything you can see and touch is real. Yesterday in my dream I was wishing I was dreaming , not knowing I was actually dreaming till I woke up!

FreeIgboho:
So Israelites have been fools all this time reading the Torah and Tanakh!
Who woulda thunk it!!

LoLz. Yes they are begin to wake up. The archaeological evidence they themselves are finding is they are an offshoot of Canaanities so there was no Exodus or Canaanite conquest. Dey there make pant dey wear you.

LordReed:
LoLz. Yes they are begin to wake up. The archaeological evidence they themselves are finding is they are an offshoot of Canaanities so there was no Exodus or Canaanite conquest. Dey there make pant dey wear you.

Worse than this, a great many modern Israelis are in fact simply Eastern Europeans.

FreeIgboho:
Same reasoning that deceives you into thinking anything you can see and touch is real. Yesterday in my dream I was wishing I was dreaming , not knowing I was actually dreaming till I woke up!

It is already settled that based on the experiences people have had in the state called dreams, that dreams are another part of living which people are still exploring and learning about Which is why you said "dream".

And that does not negate the fact things you touched and see are evidence.

Dtruthspeaker:
It is already settled that based on the experiences people have had in the state called dreams, that dreams are another part of living which people are still exploring and learning about Which is why you said "dream".

And that does not negate the fact things you touched and see are evidence.

Ok, from your reasoning how can God be in heaven and as Jesus on earth at same time? How can God be hearing a million prayers at once or be inside you??
No, you CAN touch and see something that's not there

FreeIgboho:
Ok, from your reasoning [b]how can God be [/b]in heaven and as Jesus on earth at same time? How can God be hearing a million prayers at once or be inside you??

Change of Post! The topic is evidence and not "how can God be...

FreeIgboho:
No, you CAN touch and see something that's not there

That is still evidence!, son.

Dtruthspeaker:
Change of Post! The topic is evidence and not "how can God be...



That is still evidence!, son.

No, my son, in your dream you can touch and see everything yet it's all a lie. Same way, this our "reality" could actually be a dream or anything. Point is, your reasoning is extremely limited and very easy to manipulate

DeepSight:
Worse than this, a great many modern Israelis are in fact simply Eastern Europeans.

That's right. I was just focused on the origins and how it differs from the Bible stories. Is there any Jew alive who isn't of mixed heritage?