₦airaland Forum

chris81964:
The same thing that happened to the Europeans. Do they ask themselves this question? They had Celtics, Viking and other Gods. And they are very happy people. You go to the movies and watch their Gods do battle with imaginary villains.

I am asking about all ancestors, not just African.

immaculatesense:
They will be judged according to their works and the way they lived at the end of the world.
Romans 2:11-15.
Thanks.

If they will be judged according to their works and the way they lived, then what is the need for the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

tctrills:
Throw more light please

There are laws operating and guiding how people live their lives from season to season.

Romans 2:12-21 NIV.

All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.

femi4:
There are laws operating and guiding how people live their lives from season to season.

Romans 2:12-21 NIV.

All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.

In short, you are saying that a good and just man who died without Christ can be saved by the law?

greatness77:
nothing like reincarnation bro, Let me clear you, during the time Jesus died bible said he resurrected the righteous one, there are those who avoided wickedness even without hearing the gospel and the same thing is going to happen again in the future according to revelation, revelation said devil will be imprisoned for 1000years and these period those who did not hear the word of God will hear it so after the 1000years is over then the devil will be released again to deceive the nation one more time, so those who will follow devil again will be permanently condemned together with the devil ok

So you answer that everyone will have a chance to hear the word of God?

musicwriter:
Be informed that I was once a Christian like you, believing everything you believe when I was a fool until I did my research.

When you're ready to seek knowledge, you'll step outside Nairaland to get further information. That's how it's done, indeed, that's how I came to realize that Jesus is a fraud.

The topic of Jesus's existence has already been over-discussed here on Nairaland so many times in many other threads even on some of my threads. When you're ready begin from there.

The Jesus fraud is intertwined with history, it's just like someone writing that in 1998 when Abacha was head of state, spider man came to Lagos and was jumping from one tall building to another in Lagos Island.

Someone who doesn't know the history, can easily conclude that the above must be true because Abacha was head of state in 1998, Lagos is a real place, Lagos Island is a real place and there are many tall buildings there. This is why many people like you, uninterested in research still believe in Jesus.

You're participating in an ancient fraud! Jesus is a deepfake fraud! Again, that's why many people are unaware of the fraud.

No amount of post on Nairaland will convince you. It requires your independent research starting with the information you've been given, in fact, it could take you about 5-8 years of research to uncover the fraud called Jesus.

I really don't care what you were. Are you ready to give us the history you boasted about, or are you here to tell us about your own history and about Abacha.
Please educate us here and uncover the fraud.

tctrills:
Ok
So they can be saved even without knowing Christ?

Yes. But not anymore, every soul will hear of Christ before His second coming.

tctrills:
In short, you are saying that a good and just man who died without Christ can be saved by the law?

Yes

The old prophets all died without Christ. Remember Jesus told his disciples about Abraham being in heaven

Also remember lazarus and the rich man story

tctrills:
Christ preached to the ancestors 2000 years ago. Since then till now, hundreds of millions have died without hearing about Christ, how do they hear the gospel?

The gospel in one way or another would reach every creature both the living and the dead (Matt 24:14) before the end of this age. Like I said before you concern should be about the living who are rejecting the Gospel. If your questions are genuinely from a heart seeking to know like Nicodemus who asked Jesus questions then this few explanations are enough to built faith in you but if your questions are from the heart like the pharisee whose questions were with ulterior motives then no explanation would be good enough for you to believe.
Shalom Shalom

sekeyso:
The gospel in one way or another would reach every creature both the living and the dead (Matt 24:14) before the end of this age. Like I said before you concern should be about the living who are rejecting the Gospel. If your questions are genuinely from a heart seeking to know like Nicodemus who asked Jesus questions then this few explanations are enough to built faith in you but if your questions are from the heart like the pharisee whose questions were with ulterior motives then no explanation would be good enough for you to believe.
Shalom Shalom

If your interest is to find out what part of my body produced the question, then be my guest. I am only interested in your answers. I actually like your answer, but Matt 24:14 says nothing about preaching to the dead.
In fact, let me quote it.
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

femi4:
Yes

The old prophets all died without Christ. Remember Jesus told his disciples about Abraham being in heaven

Also remember lazarus and the rich man story

So your answer is, Jesus Christ is not necessary for salvation. Then why did He ask His disciples to preach the gospel? All those who died for the gospel, did they die in vain?

The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent,
(Acts 17:30).

God is a just Judge. He will use the law of conscience to judge anyone who was genuinely ignorant. Even in islamic or traditional societies, there are always those who refrain from wickedness, and those who are always found where there is something obnoxious going on: they will be judged according their deeds.

Bananapill:
Yes. But not anymore, every soul will hear of Christ before His second coming.

If we could be saved without Christ, then why bring Christ in the first place? It means He was not really needed. Why did He need to suffer so much pain, the pains of all men, if they could easily be saved without Him or His gospel?

Sadly, God does not exist.

When you die, you stay dead and gone for good.

tctrills:
If they will be judged according to their works and the way they lived, then what is the need for the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

Would you prefer to stand before a Judge to prove your innocence and be open to his fair judgement. Or would you prefer for the president to grant you a presidential pardon?
Jesus justifies believe who trust in him alone for salvation and help even in their weaknesses.
Good works saves people who lived pious lives with good conscience irrespective of what faith or creed they belong.

Just Imagine how many Cornelius we would have in the world then. What if Cornelius has died before his encounter with Peter? Would you think I will be fair for a just God to send him to the lake of fire with the wicked people?
Would that be fair?

Thanks.

immaculatesense:
Would you prefer to stand before a Judge to prove your innocence and be open to his fair judgement. Or would you prefer for the president to grant you a presidential pardon?
Jesus justifies believe who trust in him alone for salvation and help even in their weaknesses.
Good works saves people who lived pious lives with good conscience irrespective of what faith or creed they belong.

Just Imagine how many Cornelius we would have in the world then. What if Cornelius has died before his encounter with Peter? Would you think I will be fair for a just God to send him to the lake of fire with the wicked people?
Would that be fair?

Thanks.

I understand what you say but you are not tackling a very serious question. If the many Cornelius who died before Christ could easily be saved without knowing him, then what is the purpose or need for his sacrifice and his gospel. Many have suffered and died preaching this gospel. If salvation is possible without hearing the gospel, then their suffering is unnecessary.
If there was salvation before Christ then what did He come to do? To bring a second salvation?

Gabrielshow24:
I believe you are a Christian hence I speak from a Christian standpoint! Yes, the one True God is the God I reference there; not Mohammed's god not Krishna not Zeus not Enki not Odin but Yahweh!

So the main question is what happens to the people who didn't even hear of the one true Almighty God in their lifetime?
At least u need to know or hear of him first before u can have a relationship with him.

tctrills:
So your answer is, Jesus Christ is not necessary for salvation. Then why did He ask His disciples to preach the gospel? All those who died for the gospel, did they die in vain?

You missed the point

Those that died before christ came were judge based on the law

Those under grace will be judged for rejecting Jesus.

Nigeria law under military government is different from today's constitution

ogascomax:
It's clear that some of you don't read your Bible. The word of God says those that were giving laws will be judged by the law, those that came before the law shall be judged without the law. For us we shall be judged based on righteousness. We will not be judged by the law it's the Jews that will be judged by the law which expired when Jesus died and resurrected. What I just explain is in the scripture.
Whether you heard or you did not heard you will be judged based on the judgement of that dispensation.
God knows all things so he also knows that they may not even believe if they heard him because history has proven severally how the gospel were rejected. Jesus himself was rejected and killed plus all the miracles. The children of Israel with all the miracles in Egypt and afterwards rejected God. The Bible says and God was angry and they all died in the wilderness.

Pls quote the scriptures. To back up all these claims

ediko5:
Jesus Christ came into the world almost about 1800 years before Christianity was introduced to the western part of Africa.

So what happened to our ancestors after Jesus came into the world when Christianity was yet to be introduced to them?

Reason why I said God will give them a second and third chance until they hear the gospel then either accept or reject Jesus. Then judgement will follow.

femi4:
You missed the point

Those that died before christ came were judge based on the law

Those under grace will be judged for rejecting Jesus.

I fully understand your point. My question is, if the law was sufficient for salvation before the coming of Christ then, was there any need for Him to come?
And even after his coming, hundreds of millions died without hearing about him. For example, Christianity only came to west Africa in the sixteen century.

tctrills:
I fully understand your point. My question is, if the law was sufficient for salvation before the coming of Christ then, was there any need for Him?
And even after his coming, hundreds of millions died without hearing about him. For example, Christianity only came to west Africa in the sixteen century.

The law wasn't sufficient, that's why Christ came.

Not everything that's acceptable is sufficient

Gabrielshow24:
if that were to be the case, probably the world would have ceased since all should have heard the Lord's word either in this life or in previous lives🤨. Also, what shall we say of twins bearing the same body but are independently different 🤔? Are they concurrent reincarnation of the same person or different people? When your theory comes under intense scrutiny it falls flat. God doesn't need to keep sending others over and over again with most of them making the same mistakes over and over again since they don't carry over experiences🤨. If your theory were true by now this present iteration should be free of sins or perfect since most will have learnt from their mistakes but the inverse is seen🤔. In fact from scriptures, immorality will increase does that mean that those who have God now will renounce him in the future 🤔?

Hence, Jesus deciding who to save from those who didn't hear about him doesn't diminish the fact that he is the way, the truth and the life! It only buttresses the point that he and only he decides/judges who is to make it!

The only uncertainty in this, is the standard/model of judgement he will employ! No man knows, we can only speculate through Logic that "standing with God" is the notable criteria as God will not forsake his own!

I agree only with your last paragraph.
It is God's prerogative how he chooses to do His thing. We can't argue with him.

HolinesstodLord:
You don’t understand the human spirit. Why did Adam & Eve hide themselves from God when they sinned? Because God put knowledge inside man’s spirit to know right from wrong. People call it conscience but it is more than conscience.

Everyone knows what is evil.. and people who do evil will get a check from their human spirit that this is wrong. But as they continue hardening their heart, they are left to continue in their own deception and will be judged for their love for evil.

Even the idol worshipper knows it is wrong to bow down to what can’t talk or see like him but if he continue and ignore his conscience, he will be left to his deception.

You are saying this because u are in an environment where morals and civilization has shaped ur thinking. Trust me, in crude societies it's not seen as a bad thing to kill or steal or covet. They just see it as survival of the fittest. It was like animal kingdom. That's why it was paramount to make it a law: thou shall not kill, thou shall not steal, thou shall not covet. If humans could determine if it was right or wrong then it wouldn't have been a big deal.
Today some people feel alcohol or smoking is a taboo, but in some societies it is needed to sustain life.

So saying everyone knows what is evil and good is just a function of the society u find yourself and what is attainable.
In the nearest future, in the western world generations coming up will think it is completely normal to be gay or homosexual. U will be the crazy one if u tell them what they are doing is wrong because their society teaches it, approves it and encourages it.
So it is imperative for God to give us a law to follow, so that whatever part of the world u come from, the word of God will serve as a standard for everyone to follow and also a reference for judgement.
Hope u get my point.

Dtruthspeaker:
Now you are Lying. The church was already in Udi

The first church in Udi is St. John's Church in Obinagu, established in 1920. Additionally, Peter's Anglican Church Agbalaenyi was established in 1954.

1954 is not 20years back, so you Lie!

Sorry my bad, it is Koma hills in Adamawa I am referring to.

femi4:
The law wasn't sufficient, that's why Christ came.

Not everything that's acceptable is sufficient

You said before Christ came, salvation came from obedience to the law, and now you say the law is not sufficient for salvation? Oga Femi, which is it nah? By definition, if they could be saved by obedience to the law, that means it is sufficient. Sufficient means enough.

tctrills:
I understand what you say but you are not tackling a very serious question. If the many Cornelius who died before Christ could easily be saved without knowing him, then what is the purpose or need for his sacrifice and his gospel. Many have suffered and died preaching this gospel. If salvation is possible without hearing the gospel, then their suffering is unnecessary.
If there was salvation before Christ then what did He come to do? To bring a second salvation?

If I speak plainly, you may not understand so I like making comparison to drive my point.
It's like asking "What's the essence of Democracy when we have Monarchical system before democracy comes? What is the essence of Christianity when we had our fathers who serve their gods before the white came? What is the essence of education and innovation when we have our forefathers living in huts without electricity or luxury and they were happy?
My brother, questions are endless.
My submission is "Christianity is believed to have offered a better, easier way through its teaching on living a very good life than to live by conscience without any written law about what could be right or wrong."
Disclaimer: All other written or oral traditional religions could also lay claim to this too.

Thanks

tctrills:
You said before Christ came, salvation came from obedience to the law, and now you say the law is not sufficient for salvation? Oga Femi, which is it nah? By definition, if they could be saved by obedience to the law, that means it is sufficient. Sufficient means enough.

If you study your bible, some question you are asking will not matter.

Rom 8:3

For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh,

Heb 8:7

If the first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no need for a second covenant to replace it.

The law was allowed within its ERA but it wasn't sufficient, hence the new covenant.

When N20 currency was changed to polymer, did you continue to spend the old paper note?

Was the old paper note not acceptable in that ERA?

Can you refuse the polymer (improved version) just because the old was once accepted?

immaculatesense:
If I speak plainly, you may not understand so I like making comparison to drive my point.
It's like asking "What's the essence of Democracy when we have Monarchical system before democracy comes? What is the essence of Christianity when we had our fathers who serve their gods before the white came? What is the essence of education and innovation when we have our forefathers living in huts without electricity or luxury and they were happy?
My brother, questions are endless.
My submission is "Christianity is believed to have offered a better, easier way through its teaching on living a very good life than to live by conscience without any written law about what could be right or wrong."
Disclaimer: All other written or oral traditional religions could also lay claim to this too.

Thanks

You are not making the right inferences. So under democracy, you have Freedom of speech and other freedoms. If a Monarchy offers you the same privileges and advantages of democracy, then it would be right to ask, "What's the essence of Democracy when we have a Monarchical system before democracy comes?"
So if the ways of our Fathers can give the same salvation as Christianity, it is only right to ask what the need is.

femi4:
If you study your bible, some question you are asking will not matter.

Rom 8:3

For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh,

Heb 8:7

If the first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no need for a second covenant to replace it.

The law was allowed within its ERA but it wasn't sufficient, hence the new covenant.

When N20 currency was changed to polymer, did you continue to spend the old paper note?

Was the old paper note not acceptable in that ERA?

Can you refused the polymer (improved version) just because the old was once accepted?

You just said the Law was not sufficient; this means the law could not give salvation. Where really do you stand?
Let's look at your N20 example. Would it be wrong to ask that if the old paper note had the same value as the new one, why the change?
Are you saying that the law had the same value as the gospel of Jesus Christ when it comes to salvation?

tctrills:
You are not making the right inferences. So under democracy, you have Freedom of speech and other freedoms. If a Monarchy offers you the same privileges and advantages of democracy, then it would be right to ask, "What's the essence of Democracy when we have a Monarchical system before democracy comes?"
So if the ways of our Fathers can give the same salvation as Christianity, it is only right to ask what the need is.

Exactly my point. The method of our fore fathers; animal and human sacrifices and other fetish requirements were questionable.
People should be able to serve God willingly with having to offer anything to earn salvation or receive answers to prayers. I believe Christianity (true Christianity) shows to be better than that if our forefathers in that regard.

Thanks.