₦airaland Forum

LordReed:
He sure requires something. Urgently.

If I needed such I'd be an igtheist!😅

FreeIgboho:
And what determines who'd live by conscience abd who'd not - all thise things I listed, none of which you chose!

Conscience is natural we all have it but then it could be trained like a tree that we water only God's word can do that yet even with the little you are given nobody can compel you to do certain things if you are normal!

Mr FreeIgboho you can try your luck in politics but in God's word you don't know anything even your profile name says it.

Good night!

Maximus692:
At least God will never ever lie! Titus 1:2

So when God said:

“This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved. Listen to him.” Matthew 17:5

He meant we should listen to His son whom he sent {John 3:16-18} not himself!

How does this relate to the fact that your brain is waaaay too limited to reason God? You don't determine God by reasoning but by evidence. We know Jesus is God incarnate from all that happened with him and NOT because we sat down and used our extremely limited brain to do calculations!

Maximus692:
Conscience is natural we all have it but then it could be trained like a tree that we water only God's word can do that yet even with the little you are given nobody can compel you to do certain things if you are normal!

I want you to use your own reasoning to see why salvation cannot be through works mainly. It has to be mainly a gift because...

(Let me see if you're smart enough to complete the statement)

LordReed:
LoLz. Gosh you are terrible at this. So you don't know that each version is a fresh translation of whatever manuscripts (especially if they just found previously undiscovered manuscripts) that are available for the books? Dude, I beg you go read up on this and stop embarrassing yourself with this display of ignorance.

Did you write "previously undiscovered manuscript"? I thought you said a committee sat and compiled the Bible - ala king James?

MaxInDHouse:
Father and Son simply means one is higher as in superior to the other! John 14:28

HOW does this preclude Jesus from being God incarnate??

Maximus692:
The highlighted dismantle your lies!

It means what we are taught growing up that formed our foundation view of things NOT teaching JW to an Iman in Suadi Arabia steeped in Islam all his life!

Meanwhile what do you think of this:
Romans 8:29-30 (ESV):
> "For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified."

FreeIgboho:
Those of you who fervently believe in FREE WILL, please educate me, was there ever the slightest chance that Judas would not betray Jesus?

Yes, God has given us free will. It is the freedom to choose between good and evil. Now, was there ever the slightest chance that Judas would not betray Jesus?
This is a much more technical question. I do not have a straightforward answer, but I see a clue in something Jesus Christ said.
John 6:70
“Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

So even before choosing Judas, Christ knew he was evil and had evil intentions.

Again, we read,

John 17:12:
Jesus, in his prayer to the Father, mentions Judas, saying, "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

The phrase son of perdition, also appears in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, referring to the Antichrist:

“…that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

So we can tell that Judas was chosen for the task because he was evil. He had given his soul to the devil, and what the devil does is that he robs us of our freedom. He takes away our power to choose the right.

Judas was lost beyond recovery, marked by his betrayal, and fulfilling prophecy as one doomed to eternal judgment.

FreeIgboho:
It means what we are taught growing up that formed our foundation view of things NOT teaching JW to an Iman in Suadi Arabia steeped in Islam all his life!

Meanwhile what do you think of this:
Romans 8:29-30 (ESV):
> "For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified."

See the wrie-up on free will below

Remember Jeremiah 1:5

Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Life did not begin at birth. God knew us before our mothers gave birth to us, even before the world began. So prophets and men of God are not chosen randomly.

One more verse.
Ephesians 1:4, "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love".

God's knowledge and relationship with us is even older than Genesis 1.1
So don't be surprised that he also knew Judas.
He knew that the assignment to betray Jesus could only be given to one who is completely evil, A devil, as Jesus called him in John 6.

tctrills:
Yes, God has given us free will. It is the freedom to choose between good and evil. Now, was there ever the slightest chance that Judas would not betray Jesus?
This is a much more technical question. I do not have a straightforward answer, but I see a clue in something Jesus Christ said.
John 6:70
“Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

So even before choosing Judas, Christ knew he was evil and had evil intentions.

Again, we read,

John 17:12:
Jesus, in his prayer to the Father, mentions Judas, saying, "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

The phrase son of perdition, also appears in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, referring to the Antichrist:

“…that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

So we can tell that Judas was chosen for the task because he was evil. He had given his soul to the devil, and what the devil does is that he robs us of our freedom. He takes away our power to choose the right.

Judas was lost beyond recovery, marked by his betrayal, and fulfilling prophecy as one doomed to eternal judgment.

Quite erudite, except for WHY. Why was Judas evil? And could he have been redeemed by someone preaching to him?

tctrills:
Remember Jeremiah 1:5

Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Life did not begin at birth. God knew us before our mothers gave birth to us, even before the world began. So prophets and men of God are not chosen randomly.

One more verse.
Ephesians 1:4, "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love".

God's knowledge and relationship with us is even older than Genesis 1.1
So don't be surprised that he also knew Judas.
He knew that the assignment to betray Jesus could only be given to one who is completely evil, A devil, as Jesus called him in John 6.

Very well-said. But then, what is Judgement judging? Also, if Judas had repented at the last minute, where would we be today?

FreeIgboho:
Very well-said. But then, what is Judgement judging? Also, if Judas had repented at the last minute, where would we be today?

I don't understand your first question.
But to the second, what really is repentance? It's more than saying I am sorry. Paul spoke about Godly sorrow. I believe, just like the devil, it is possible to go beyond that there is no coming back.
Remember, there are some that will not receive forgiveness in this world or in the world to come.

FreeIgboho:
Quite erudite, except for WHY. Why was Judas evil? And could he have been redeemed by someone preaching to him?

So the bible never explains what made Judas evil. He listened to the preachings of Jesus Christ everyday. Remember Christ called he a devil. Satan hears the preaching everyday yet he remains in his evil way. Judas was a devil so we don't expect more from him.

Everyday247:
Well if you put it that way, it doesn't make sense.

MaxInDHouse:
That's exactly what he is insinuating!

Insinuating ke. Why don't you ask yourself how you can have free will if God knows everything?

tctrills:
I don't understand your first question.
But to the second, what really is repentance? It's more than saying I am sorry. Paul spoke about Godly sorrow. I believe, just like the devil, it is possible to go beyond that there is no coming back.
Remember, there are some that will not receive forgiveness in this world or in the world to come.

Well, God knows everything. - knows us before we were born, knows us at the end of our yet-to-be-lived life, and knows everything in-between.
I mean repentance like the robber at crucifixion.

tctrills:
So the bible never explains what made Judas evil. He listened to the preachings of Jesus Christ everyday. Remember Christ called he a devil. Satan hears the preaching everyday yet he remains in his evil way. Judas was a devil so we don't expect more from him.

I mean, why was he marked as evil even before he was born, and how was it his fault?

See below, scientific proof you don't have free will!

MaxInDHouse, Janosky, LordReed, DeepSight,
tctrills, Dtruthspeaker, Everyday247, Ruke1990, sonmvayina

FreeIgboho:
So what is your own take? Do we have free will?
Let's also hear the take of our other discussants:
Maxindhouse, Janosky, Lordreed, DeepSight,
tctrills, Dtruthspeaker, Everyday247, Ruke1990, sonmvayina

We all know what freewill is The problem is people think that freewill means that they must be free to exercise their will all the time and in all things.

Also they confuse free will with doability. A person can freely will to fly like a bird but he finds he cannot do it. Nevertheless, he has exercised his freewill.

FreeIgboho:
Those of you who fervently believe in FREE WILL, please educate me, was there ever the slightest chance that Judas would not betray Jesus?

Of course.

We all predict that Korra Obidi, Tacha, Tuface must cheat on their spouses but it is still upto him to confirm whether we shall be right.

FreeIgboho:
How does this relate to the fact that your brain is waaaay too limited to reason God? You don't determine God by reasoning but by evidence. We know Jesus is God incarnate from all that happened with him and NOT because we sat down and used our extremely limited brain to do calculations!

Ọmọ you are just deceiving yourself!

Nobody knows anything about Jesus and his disciples until we listen to the message brought {Romans 10:13-15} and it's by listening and REASONING we accepted whatever we believe today! Act 19:8

We CALCULATED what we heard and put the fragments together before coming to a conclusion.

The two thieves killed beside Jesus were opportuned to use their brains, one thought of escaping the torture and death while the other focused on what the scriptures said about the Christ {Isaiah 53:12} that's why he concluded that Jesus is truly the Christ and started begging him for mercy even though both of them are dying on the torture stake! Luke 23:40-42

Jesus expected people who heard about him to use their heads to calculate and come to the right conclusion! Matthew 16:20

FreeIgboho:
I want you to use your own reasoning to see why salvation cannot be through works mainly. It has to be mainly a gift because...
(Let me see if you're smart enough to complete the statement)

If there's no works attached Jesus won't say:

“Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the ONE DOING the will of my Father who is in the heavens will" Matthew 7:21 compare to James 2:18-26

The highlighted in blue shows you don't understand what you are saying!

FreeIgboho:
HOW does this preclude Jesus from being God incarnate??

Jesus is not God incarnate rather he was given orders on what to do that's why he said:

“Why do you call me good? Nobody is good except one, God" Luke 18:19

His thoughts, words and actions were like SCRIPTED as given to him by his SUPERIOR whom he doesn't want to displease! John 5:30

I told you Jesus in his prehuman existence wasn't such a gentleman he acted just as his father taught him in his real self none of those rubbish they did to him could have gone without those people paying dearly for their errors but because he was given a role to play that's why he told that man:

"I'm not good o, it's my father's attributes you are seeing in me not my very self" Luke 18:19

FreeIgboho:
It means what we are taught growing up that formed our foundation view of things NOT teaching JW to an Iman in Suadi Arabia steeped in Islam all his life!
Meanwhile what do you think of this:
Romans 8:29-30 (ESV):
> "For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified."

because those whom he gave his first recognition he also foreordained to be patterned after the image of his Son, so that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. Moreover, those whom he foreordained are the ones he also called; and those whom he called are the ones he also declared to be righteous. Finally those whom he declared righteous are the ones he also glorified. Romans 8:29-30

God purposed that salvation will reach all other nations of the earth by means of the Jews! Zechariah 8:23 compare to John 4:22

That's what Paul meant in his letter not that God predestined anyone in person apart from Jesus all those who embraced Christianity did so by freewill {Matthew 19:27} when other Jews turned back after getting annoyed over Jesus' teachings! John 6:66

So it wasn't automatic otherwise that would have mean God is partial! Act 10:34-35

FreeIgboho:
Insinuating ke. Why don't you ask yourself how you can have free will if God knows everything?

Ọmọ God never claimed He knows everything o that's what Satan wants you to think so you can blame God and justify for your disobedience.

What God knows perfectly is His own purpose which nothing can change {Isaiah 55:11} but as for what each person will do regarding His purposes that He leaves to your own freewill.

See what God said about Abraham:


“Do not lay a hand on the boy,” he said. “Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son.”
Genesis 22:12 NIV‬

If God predestined Abraham to do that then what's extraordinary in what the man did?

FreeIgboho:
See below, scientific proof you don't have free will!

You keep jumping from pillar to post just because you don't want to admit you goofed.

Well congrats to you and your fellow worshipers of I AM as you guys can't reach a reasonable conclusion on this at least your I AM god loves such confusion among it's worshipers!

FreeIgboho:
Quite erudite, except for WHY. Why was Judas evil? And could he have been redeemed by someone preaching to him?

Judas miscalculated he wasn't evil!

Throughout his discipleship he wasn't focused on what Jesus promised them collectively {Mark 10:29-30} Judas was determined to be rich seeing that he had such chances as a close confidant of the Christ. 1Timothy 6:8-10
Note what Jews believe about being a close associate of the Christ each of them is nursing the thought to be Christ's coruler {Act 1:6} so Judas was more engulfed in what he could become as one of Christ's corulers than whatever Jesus is teaching them {Matthew 7:24-27} but after three years of following Jesus up and down without achieving anything materially speaking Judah decided to make it big after all the Pharisees wanted to get Jesus at all cost so he could strike a deal with them thinking Jesus will still disappear just as he's been doing before then! Luke 4:30; John 8:59; 10:39
He strongly believe Jesus will forgive him after all that's what he taught them {Luke 17:4} but he was devastated when Jesus refused to escape this time!
And finally realized he has played the role of the one who will betray the Christ! Psalms 49:10
So don't think Judas was evil no evil one will kill himself due to remorse after making such huge money! Matthew 27:3-5

FreeIgboho:
Did you write "previously undiscovered manuscript"? I thought you said a committee sat and compiled the Bible - ala king James?

Dude go and read you are embarrassing yourself.

FreeIgboho:
If I needed such I'd be an igtheist!😅

LoLz. It doesn't matter what you become you just need your marbles properly counted.

FreeIgboho:
And what made him the greediest person? Where he was born, to whom, circumstances he grew up in, plus the kind of brain and personality he was given - none of which was chosen by him!

Your argument makes no sense

Do you believe you had no choice in choosing the university you attended but you were pre-programmed to go to such school before you were born regardless of whether you choose to study hard and prepare for the entrance exam or not.

You believe you could have gotten that University admission regardless of whether you prepared for the exams or not. Or you believe you could have graduated with a 2.2 or 2.1 even if you didn't read for exams and if you didn't attend classes as long as that was your predestination?

You believe you will have still have your biological kids from a woman who has no womb even if you decided to marry a woman whose womb has been removed as long as you were predestined to have kids

You believe your children will still graduate from primary school, secondary school and university even if no one chooses to fund their education as long as it was programmed into them that they will have a university education

No matter what nature has conditioned you into, you can still change your fate by virtue of your life choices and daily decisions. If not people could just wake up one day to discover they are now governors without 'choosing' to contest election, without campaign and without buying party form as long as they were destined to be a state governor in Nigeria

You are predestined to have kids. But if 'you decide' not to f.uck woman and decide not to donate sperm or have IVF, you will never have kids. It's as simple as that

If we come knocking on your door for a free home Bible study you will say you're born again or saved or chosen here are the things you refused to learn in a humble way with Jehovah's Witnesses!

FreeIgboho:
I mean, why was he marked as evil even before he was born, and how was it his fault?

I don't have the answer to that. But as I said, life began before our birth. I don't know what he did that made him evil.