₦airaland Forum

FreeIgboho:
➜Thank you but I don't know how this below defines love nor how it never fails:
3 I may give away everything I have to help others, and I may even give my body as an offering to be burned. But I gain nothing by doing all this if I don’t have love.

Well, in the world we live in today, we see that people do giveaways— even politicians would claim to give away all they have out of love for their constituents. And others claim to sacrifice their lives for the sake of others. What Paul, the Jewish Israelite, is saying is that those acts in and of themselves do not embody the sort of love he is referring to. Or I could say, the act he describes as love goes beyond those ideas. And then in the verses that follow — verses 4 through 10 — he goes on to describe the qualities of the kind of love he speaks of.

In beginning in verse 8, he adds that the kind of love he speaks of never ends/fails, unlike the benefits of doing giveaways or dying for a cause or person in this world... implying it is eternal in origins, orientation, and benefits.

Kobojunkie:
Well, in the world we live in today, we see that people do giveaways— even politicians would claim to give away all they have out of love for their constituents. And others claim to sacrifice their lives for the sake of others. What Paul, the Jewish Israelite, is saying is that those acts in and of themselves do not embody the sort of love he is referring to. Or I could say, the act he describes as love goes beyond those ideas. And then in the verses that follow — verses 4 through 10 — he goes on to describe the qualities of the kind of love he speaks of.

In beginning in verse 8, he adds that the kind of love he speaks of never ends/fails, unlike the benefits of doing giveaways or dying for a cause or person in this world... implying it is eternal in origins, orientation, and benefits.

Ok, I see what you're saying but that still does not tell us what love is.
Let's say someone asks, "Who is Kobojunkie?" and someone answers him, "Kobojunkie is kind, patient, does not keep grudges, etc". That still does not tell us who he is

FreeIgboho:
➜Ok, I see what you're saying but that still does not tell us what love is.
➜Let's say someone asks, "Who is Kobojunkie?" and someone answers him, "Kobojunkie is kind, patient, does not keep grudges, etc". That still does not tell us who he is

. If you again, focus your attention on the statements made by Paul, the Jewish Israelite, you will gather that he was not referencing a who, but a what.

In verse 3, he compares various acts of endearment that we may produce and asserts that they are nothing to what would result from his having this love he refers to, implying that this love results in action that does not compare to the typical ideas we are used to.

1. I may speak in different languages, whether human or even of angels. But if I don’t have love, I am only a noisy bell or a ringing cymbal.
2 I may have the gift of prophecy, I may understand all secrets and know everything there is to know, and I may have faith so great that I can move mountains. But even with all this, if I don’t have love, I am nothing.
3 I may give away everything I have to help others, and I may even give my body as an offering to be burned. But I gain nothing by doing all this if I don’t have love.
4 Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous, it does not brag, and it is not proud.
5 Love is not rude, it is not selfish, and it cannot be made angry easily. Love does not remember wrongs done against it.
6 Love is never happy when others do wrong, but it is always happy with the truth.
7 Love never gives up on people. It never stops trusting, never loses hope, and never quits.
8 Love will never end. But all those gifts will come to an end—even the gift of prophecy, the gift of speaking in different kinds of languages, and the gift of knowledge.
9 These will all end because this knowledge and these prophecies we have are not complete.
10 But when perfection comes, the things that are not complete will end. - 1 Corinthians 13 vs 1 - 10

But Kobojunkie cannot cause action in you that is different from that which is your will. Paul is saying that this love, which he is required to have, causes an action that embodies the listed attributes. He compares this love to acts and to things, whats and not whos.

Kobojunkie:
. If you again, focus your attention on the statements made by Paul, the Jewish Israelite, you will gather that he was not referencing a who, but a what.

In verse 3, he compares various acts of endearment that we may produce and asserts that they are nothing to what would result from his having this love he refers to, implying that this love results in action that does not compare to the typical ideas we are used to.

But Kobojunkie cannot cause action in you that is different from that which is your will. Paul is saying that this love, which he is required to have, causes an action that embodies the listed attributes. He compares this love to acts and to things, whats and not whos.

I get your point, but what I'm saying though is, if someone were to ask you what is love (Paul's love), how would you respond? Listing the qualities of a thing is not same as saying what the thing is

FreeIgboho:
✓ I get your point, but what I'm saying though is, if someone were to ask you what is love (Paul's love), how would you respond. Listing the qualities of a thing is not same as saying what the thing is

Why can't listing the qualities of a thing be construed as defining the thing?

Kobojunkie:
Why can't listing the qualities of a thing be construed as defining the thing?

Well because a thing is what it is in itself, while qualities are what it is in relation to how people see it. Example, love is a FEELING of total good will towards something, as opposed to listing "love is kind, etc"

FreeIgboho:
✓ Well because a thing is what it is in itself, while qualities are what it is in relation to how people see it. Example, love is a FEELING of total good will towards something, as opposed to listing "love is kind, etc"

Well, He is telling you that this thing is love and he differentiates it from other forms or ideas that go by the same by stating its qualities. So? Is that not a definition of what he means by love?

I am reminded here of the of Plato's Symposium where in defining love, the many individuals who are recorded listed it's many characteristics, something Socrates pointed out was not entirely invalid to do.

Kobojunkie:
Well, He is telling you that this thing is love and he differentiates it from other forms or ideas that go by the same by stating its qualities. So? Is that not a definition of what he means by love?

I am reminded here of the of Plato's Symposium where in defining love, the many individuals who are recorded listed it's many characteristics, something Socrates pointed out was not entirely invalid to do.

I see your point, I'm just saying something like love cannot be defined by such a list because it is inexhaustible - there are elements of love that cannot be so listed.

Anyway, what's your view on this below?

How true is this 30-seconds clip vis-a-vis free will?
Will we ever know?

https://youtube.com/shorts/PLclzmowpHU?si=ft6EVAxkOGczbsqY


MaxInDHouse, Janosky, LordReed, DeepSight,
tctrills, Dtruthspeaker, Everyday247, Ruke1990, sonmvayina, MeetDx
/////////////
jimRohn, Kobojunkie, FxMasterz, maynman, Image123, DrJones109, Jesusjnr2022, Jaephoenix, JessicaRabbit, Knownunknown, BBIA HellVictorinho6, SIXFEETUNDER, OkpaNsukkaisBae, Bacteriologist, FRANCISTOWN, SIRTee15, Aemmyjah, TheSourcerer, Busybrain2233, 1Sharon, TakeNigeriaBack,
Botragelad, isan, Fourthpredator,
seun, hopefullandlord, bobestman, Lorrayne, HardMirror, Hahn, SlawG, albreezy4eva, Muslim, Dominique, Mrbroke, EnemyofGod2, kkins25, Wilgrea7, A001, Maynthemayn

FreeIgboho:
➜How true is this 30-seconds clip vis-a-vis free will?
➜ Will we ever know? https://youtube.com/shorts/PLclzmowpHU?si=ft6EVAxkOGczbsqY

Free will is an idea that was created of religion, with no usefulness to those of us outside of religious circles.

2. I know why I make the choices that I make, and the reason is simple. Because those choices are available to me and aligned with the direction or trajectory in which my life was headed, as well as the need/want I had at the point when they were each made.

Kobojunkie:
Free will is an idea that was created of religion, with no usefulness to those of us outside of religious circles.

2. I know why I make the choices that I make, and the reason is simple. Because those choices are available to me and aligned with the direction or trajectory in which my life was headed, as well as the need/want I had at the point when they were each made.

But how are you sure it is YOU making the choices?

Love NEVER fails
(1 Corinthians 13:8}

This is the ONLY thing that the Bible says NEVER fails.
Amazing and worth contemplating.
Does love really never fails?

MaxInDHouse, Janosky, LordReed, DeepSight,
tctrills, Dtruthspeaker, Everyday247, Ruke1990, sonmvayina, MeetDx
/////////////
jimRohn, Kobojunkie, FxMasterz, maynman, Image123, DrJones109, Jesusjnr2022, Jaephoenix, JessicaRabbit, Knownunknown, BBIA HellVictorinho6, SIXFEETUNDER, OkpaNsukkaisBae, Bacteriologist, FRANCISTOWN, SIRTee15, Aemmyjah, TheSourcerer, Busybrain2233, 1Sharon, TakeNigeriaBack,
Botragelad, isan, Fourthpredator,
seun, hopefullandlord, bobestman, Lorrayne, HardMirror, Hahn, SlawG, albreezy4eva, Muslim, Dominique, Mrbroke, EnemyofGod2, kkins25, Wilgrea7, A001, Maynthemayn

FreeIgboho:
✓ But how are you sure it is YOU making the choices?

Are you really asking me if the decision to click and respond, or not,to these questions are truly mine?

FreeIgboho:
✓ Love NEVER fails
(1 Corinthians 13:8}
This is the ONLY thing that the Bible says NEVER fails. Amazing and worth contemplating.
✓ Does love really never fails?

✓ Wrong! This isn't the only thing that never fails in the you pretend to quote from, rather this claim is of your private interpretation. The one whom you pretend to quote instead said that of all the gifts, only love will not fail.

2. Given that Paul's explanation is that since love is eternal in orientation--- neverending ---then one can easily see how it cannot fail/end.

Kobojunkie:
Are you really asking me if the decision to click and respond, or not,to these questions are truly mine?

Well, thing is, just as in the clip, God, or even a seer, already knows if you will click or not. So where does that leave things

Kobojunkie:
✓ Wrong! This isn't the only thing that never fails in the you pretend to quote from, rather this claim is of your private interpretation. The one whom you pretend to quote instead said that of all the gifts, only love will not fail.

2. Given that Paul's explanation is that since love is eternal in orientation--- neverending ---then one can easily see how it cannot fail/end.

1. What else does the Bible say never fails?

2. Where does Paul say love is eternal and never-ending?

FreeIgboho:
[size=8pt]➜1. What else does the Bible say never fails?
2. Where does Paul say love is eternal and never-ending?[/size]

The book has it that other things are equally eternal/never-ending/unfailing/without end.

2. In verses 8 through 10, he explained that the love he describes is eternal—it has no end, i.e, it does not fail. You keep refusing to read the passage right in front of you to comprehend his meaning. why? What is the purpose of quoting an idea only to keep inserting your own interpretation against that which is clearly depicted?

FreeIgboho:
➜Well, thing is, just as in the clip, God, or even a seer, already knows if you will click or not. So where does that leave things

Let's assume that is the case with your deity, so what? What if he already knows what I will do? Does it change the fact that I will be the one choosing to do it? Does it change the fact that the particular choice will be made by me only when it presents itself — not before or afterwards? I don't follow this illogical reasoning you pretend here.

Kobojunkie:
The book has it that other things are equally eternal/never-ending/unfailing/without end.

2. In verses 8 through 10, he explained that the love he describes is eternal—it has no end, i.e, it does not fail. You keep refusing to read the passage right in front of you to comprehend his meaning. why? What is the purpose of quoting an idea only to keep inserting your own interpretation against that which is clearly depicted?

Ok, I see the problem - your particular translation has it as as "Love never ends", but all other translations have it as "Love never fails"

Kobojunkie:
Let's assume that is the case with your deity, so what? What if he already knows what I will do? Does it change the fact that I will be the one choosing to do it? Does it change the fact that the particular choice will be made by me only when it presents itself — not before or afterwards? I don't follow this illogical reasoning you pretend here.

Well, if God or anybody already knows what you'll do that means things are unfolding as they are meant to unfold - they are not dependent on your will

FreeIgboho:
➜Ok, I see the problem - your particular translation has it as as "Love never ends", but all other translations have it as "Love never fails"

Wrong!

The translation isn't the problem since all of them detail the particular meaning to be applied as far as the term used. In the following translations, we see included references to other words(synonyms) explaining the particular meaning to be applied to that describing Love.
1599 Geneva Bible

8 Love doth never fall away, though that prophesyings be abolished, or the tongues cease, or knowledge vanish away.
9 [k]For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect, is come, then that which is in part shall be abolished. - 1 Corinthians 13 vs 8 - 10

...King James Version

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. - 1 Corinthians 13 vs 8-10

So, the question remains, why do you blatantly reject the information presented in the context?

FreeIgboho:
➜Well, if God or anybody already knows what you'll do that means things are unfolding as they are meant to unfold - they are not dependent on your will

This statement does not answer any of my questions to you nor does it make any sense. I mean, so what if the things I do are unfolding as they are expected to unfold? In what way does that take away from the fact that the decisions are mine each time? How does the first imply the conclusion in bold?

If I know that the neighbor's dog is going to bite the mailman coming down the street once he reaches the gate, and it happens, how does that all become dependent on my will and not on the dog's own will?

AntiChristian:
You still need to review your definition of God?

Antichristian, are you still there?

Kobojunkie:
Wrong!

The translation isn't the problem since all of them detail the particular meaning to be applied as far as the term used. In the following translations, we see included references to other words(synonyms) explaining the particular meaning to be applied to that describing Love.
1599 Geneva Bible
...King James Version
So, the question remains, why do you blatantly reject the information presented in the context?

Please see NIV version below which is what most people use. Can you show us anywhere else in the Bible it says something never fails like it says it here?

FreeIgboho:
➜Please see NIV version below which is what most people use. Can you show us anywhere else in the Bible it says something never fails like it says it here?

NIV is no different from the others. The same information recorded in the others is also recorded here.

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part,
10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. - 1 Corinthians 13 vs 8 - 10

Fails also in this case implies ceasing, stiling, passing away, disappearing. Basically, not eternal. So, again, why reject what is reported to assert an entirely different message?

Kobojunkie:
This statement does not answer any of my questions to you nor does it make any sense. I mean, so what if the things I do are unfolding as they are expected to unfold? In what way does that take away from the fact that the decisions are mine each time? How does the first imply the conclusion in bold?

If I know that the neighbor's dog is going to bite the mailman coming down the street once he reaches the gate, and it happens, how does that all become dependent on my will and not on the dog's own will?

You know, I can't believe you're arguing this. Say you're writing a book, you have the plot set out from beginning to end. Now, as you are writing the book you come to a place where a character, John, could go left or right, and you make John decide to go right because that's what's appropriate to the end you already ploted. Please, how does John have free will??

FreeIgboho:
➜You know, I can't believe you're arguing this. Say you're writing a book, you have the plot set out from beginning to end. Now, as you are writing the book you come to a place where a character, John, could go left or right, and you make John decide to go right because that's what's appropriate to the end you already ploted. Please, how does John have free will??

So, it is no longer just the case that your deity knows what I will do, but that he is also making me do the things that I do? Just look at how many leaps you have to take to force a logical interpretation on this idea that should otherwise not even be considered a thing. 🙄🙄

It is no longer that I know that the neighbor's dog is going to bite the mailman, but that I am also responsible for the neighbor's dog biting the mailman. Oi vey! 😩😩😩

Kobojunkie:
NIV is no different from the others. The same information recorded in the others is also recorded here.
Fails also in this case implies ceasing, stiling, passing away, disappearing. Basically, not eternal. So, again, why reject what is reported to assert an entirely different message?

The opposite of "fail" is "succeed". Fail is NOT a synonym for cease, still, pass away, disappear, etc. "Love never fails" is NOT same as "Love never ends" or "Love never passes away"

FreeIgboho:
➜The opposite of "fail" is "succeed" NOT cease, still, pass away, disappear, etc. "Love never fails" is NOT same as "Love never ends" or "Love never passes away"

. You have never used a dictionary or a thesaurus in your life, have you? 😏

https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/fail

Kobojunkie:
So, it is no longer just the case that your deity knows what I will do, but that he is also making me do the things that I do? Just look at how many leaps you have to take to force a logical interpretation on this idea that should otherwise not even be considered a thing. 🙄🙄

It is no longer that I know that the neighbor's dog is going to bite the mailman, but that I am also responsible for the neighbor's dog biting the mailman. Oi vey! 😩😩😩

Can't you see that one implies the other? The ONLY way you can be 100% certain what will happen is if the characters don't have free will because if they did, a decision by any random one of them can lead to a totally different outcome than the one you had planned

Kobojunkie:
. You have never used a dictionary or a thesaurus in your life, have you? 😏

https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/fail

Below are the synonyms your link lead to. I don't see any cease, still, pass away, disappear

"LOVE NEVER FAILS" is not same as "LOVE NEVER ENDS"!!!