₦airaland Forum

FreeIgboho:
It's written right there. Your choices are NOT truly your own though you'd swear they are - as in a hypnotized person

What's your basis that makes you conclude a person is hypnotized? You use this word vaguely!

Humans are subject to change, I can change my behavior in a moment which could be due to hawthorne effect, pygmalion effect or situational bias! Does this mean I am hypnotized? Your very specific example has hypnosis as an accidental feature but irrespective of this the actor is solely responsible for his actions!

Now to my bone of contention, what you defined as mind control is somewhat related to human conditioning! Conditioning an human to express an action requires the reward centers in the brain to freely choose what to portray because of an incentive! —This doesn't negate free will it buttresses it!

Experiments have been done to manipulate rewards centers in the brain to exhibit desired behavior with some incentives: pain and pleasure-oriented inducements! In all these experiments free will was not negated!

Some use this to condition the masses, husbands, wives, children and pets! It doesn't negate the agency of choice of the actor! When an organization posts ads on various platforms to the extent that it has permeated your sub-conscious, the prerogative still falls on you!—Temu comes to mind🤔. Even though you have been conditioned or over exposed to such an ad!

Kindly prove to us that hypnosis negates free will!

Gabrielshow24:
What's your basis that makes you conclude a person is hypnotized? You use this word vaguely!

Humans are subject to change, I can change my behavior in a moment which could be due to hawthorne effect, pygmalion effect or situational bias! Does this mean I am hypnotized? Your very specific example has hypnosis as an accidental feature but irrespective of this the actor is solely responsible for his actions!

Now to my bone of contention, what you defined as mind control is somewhat related to human conditioning! Conditioning an human to express an action requires the reward centers in the brain to freely choose what to portray because of an incentive! —This doesn't negate free will it buttresses it!

Experiments have been done to manipulate rewards centers in the brain to exhibit desired behavior with some incentives: pain and pleasure-oriented inducements! In all these experiments free will was not negated!

Some use this to condition the masses, husbands, wives, children and pets! It doesn't negate the agency of choice of the actor! When an organization posts ads on various platforms to the extent that it has permeated your sub-conscious, the prerogative still falls on you!—Temu comes to mind🤔. Even though you have been conditioned or over exposed to such an ad!

Kindly prove to us that hypnosis negates free will!

Hypnosis is just an example, as is brainwashing.
I told you before, the fault lies in your definition of freewill. To you any action that is not automatic, like sweating, is free will. Infact freewill is a choice that is truly and entitrly your own.
But what we're discussing here goes beyond that. How do you condition a person to have 6 children and know 100% they will have exactly 6 children - hundreds of years before his birth? Yet still insist he could have had 10 children if he wanted!

FreeIgboho:
Hypnosis is just an example, as is brainwashing.
I told you before the fault lies in your definition of freewill. To you any action that is not automatic, like sweating, is free will. Infact freewill is a choice that is truly and entitrly your own.
But what we're discussing here goes beyond that. How do you condition a person to have 6 children and know 100% they will have exactly 6 children - hundreds of years before his birth? Yet still insist he could have had 10 children if he wanted!

Your premise is in two folds! The place of God and the place of man!
From the place of man we have thrashed out that men indeed have free will even those brainwashed and possibly hypnotized!

You don't have sufficient information to likewise dismiss God's omniscience 👀, you can only affirm it. His omniscience allows Him to know everything that is, was and is to come! —He sees all possible variations that can ever exist thus His omniscience is not the issue! The issue lies in you using this as a basis to negate the freewill of men! God has a will and if he wants to fulfill his will, he configures others' will to align with His!

This way if God says you will buy a car in two years time, you will indeed buy this car as long as you are in him and do not deviate from him to avoid delays! Dismissing possibilities of delays and allowing solely the optimal outcome, your circumstances will be configured that will allow you fulfill this prophecy! Do you grab? The circumstances are beyond you. It's similar to force majeure, still in these circumstances presented before you, you decide your outcome!

Now, using your own example if God wills for a man to have 6 children of course it will happen , circumstances will be "generated" that will ensure this happens. He could be given a wife that loves children thereby demanding more🤤; the man in question, under the window of lust, can play one or two outside shots and it might results in twins, there are so many variables that can be tweaked to ensure this outcome occurs! The man in question could be born in polygamy accepted religions, the man could also have baby mamas to share the "work load" 😁.

My friend, in the hands of an omniscient God, all these are very simple! Circumstances will be tweaked here and there that won't negate the person's free will but will result in the desired outcome. This is greatly exemplified in the bible, God says a thing and circumstances "occur" that make the actor fulfill such a thing!

You seem to have an issue with God knowing all things and yet we still have free will! The knowing encapsulates all that can be done and not done! "Done" here is emphasized to show what men choose for themselves as a reality! The "not done" is pretty much self-explanatory 🤨.

Free will is agency of choice and fulfilling destiny requires a symbiotic relationship with God!

FreeIgboho:
Hypnosis is just an example, as is brainwashing.
I told you before, the fault lies in your definition of freewill. To you any action that is not automatic, like sweating, is free will. Infact freewill is a choice that is truly and entitrly your own.
But what we're discussing here goes beyond that. How do you condition a person to have 6 children and know 100% they will have exactly 6 children - hundreds of years before his birth? Yet still insist he could have had 10 children if he wanted!

Imagine life as a maze, with an 'external observer' who is aware of all the possible paths. Every decision you make leads to a specific outcome, and the observer can trace your choices—'He takes path A, B, E, G and reaches a dead end. He takes path A, B and finds path F.' However, in some cases, when the observer wants the individual to successfully navigate the maze, they subtly influence the choices, guiding the person toward the intended goal.

Gabrielshow24:
Your premise is in two folds! The place of God and the place of man!
From the place of man we have thrashed out that men indeed have free will even those brainwashed and possibly hypnotized!

You don't have sufficient information to likewise dismiss God's omniscience 👀, you can only affirm it. His omniscience allows Him to know everything that is, was and is to come! —He sees all possible variations that can ever exist thus His omniscience is not the issue! The issue lies in you using this as a basis to negate the freewill of men! God has a will and if he wants to fulfill his will, he configures others' will to align with His!

This way if God says you will buy a car in two years time, you will indeed buy this car as long as you are in him and do not deviate from him to avoid delays! Dismissing possibilities of delays and allowing solely the optimal outcome, your circumstances will be configured that will allow you fulfill this prophecy! Do you grab? The circumstances are beyond you. It's similar to force majeure, still in these circumstances presented before you, you decide your outcome!

Now, using your own example if God wills for a man to have 6 children of course it will happen , circumstances will be "generated" that will ensure this happens. He could be given a wife that loves children thereby demanding more🤤; the man in question, under the window of lust, can play one or two outside shots and it might results in twins, there are so many variables that can be tweaked to ensure this outcome occurs! The man in question could be born in polygamy accepted religions, the man could also have baby mamas to share the "work load" 😁.

My friend, in the hands of an omniscient God, all these are very simple! Circumstances will be tweaked here and there that won't negate the person's free will but will result in the desired outcome. This is greatly exemplified in the bible, God says a thing and circumstances "occur" that make the actor fulfill such a thing!

You seem to have an issue with God knowing all things and yet we still have free will! The knowing encapsulates all that can be done and not done! "Done" here is emphasized to show what men choose for themselves as a reality! The "not done" is pretty much self-explanatory 🤨.

Free will is agency of choice and fulfilling destiny requires a symbiotic relationship with God!

Exactly as I said - it boils down to definitions!
If you want 10 children but God configures things so you only have 6, having six children is NOT your choice, it is NOT by your freewill.
But in your definition it is by your choice and by your freewill because... because of what again?

Gabrielshow24:
Imagine life as a maze, with an 'external observer' who is aware of all the possible paths. Every decision you make leads to a specific outcome, and the observer can trace your choices—'He takes path A, B, E, G and reaches a dead end. He takes path A, B and finds path F.' However, in some cases, when the observer wants the individual to successfully navigate the maze, they subtly influence the choices, guiding the person toward the intended goal.

This is far different from seeing with hundred percent certainty that a child will be born in a manger hundreds of years before even the captivity existed!

FreeIgboho:
This is far different from seeing with hundred percent certainty that a child will be born in a manger hundreds of years before even the captivity existed!

The observer influenced such and told the actors in advance as a form of confirmation! Do you understand?

FreeIgboho:
Exactly as I said - it boils down to definitions!
If you want 10 children but God configures things so you only have 6, having six children is NOT your choice, it is NOT by your freewill.
But in your definition it is by your choice and by your freewill because... because of what again?

Yes, it is. The circumstances warrant such! Imagine having six kids during Jagaban's administration, would you still want to birth more? Likewise even physical constraints can hook you! At least there are many that want to birth more but physical constraints are against them! That's also one of the major reasons people seek God's face because they are aware He is the only one that subvert physical constraints!

Gabrielshow24:
Yes, it is. The circumstances warrant such! Imagine having six kids during Jagaban's administration, would you still want to birth more? Likewise even physical constraints can hook you! At least there are many that want to birth more but physical constraints are against them! That's also one of the major reasons people seek God's face because they are aware He is the only one that subvert physical constraints!

That's why the whole thing DOES NOT ADD UP!!!
God has his perfect plan and everything must happen as and when they should to fulfill his plan - including you losing your keys. How does it make sense that he'd overturn everything, all his perfect plan since the beginning of the world just so you'd have your keys??

As for the 6 kids, your choice using your freewill is to have 10 kids. Anything outside yourself that pushes to have more or less has thwarted your will

FreeIgboho:
That's why the whole thing DOES NOT ADD UP!!!
God has his perfect plan and everything must happen as and when they should to fulfill his plan - including you losing your keys. How does it make sense that he'd overturn everything, all his perfect plan since the beginning of the world just so you'd have your keys??

As for the 6 kids, your choice using your freewill is to have 10 kids. Anything outside yourself that pushes to have more or less has thwarted your will

It's not necessary that fulfillment of His plan is dependent on you losing your keys. There are major nodes and minor nodes. From scripture, it's expedient that Abraham knew God because on him is the prophecy hinged upon yet Abraham of his free will birthed our cousins👀, from these emanated enmity due to sibling rivalry later on that the whole world is still reaping from! This is enunciated in scripture in simple terms, "child of the free woman" and "child of the ... woman".

Thus, you can have/lose your key and in no wise affects God's plan! Some actions are mutually independent while others are not, you are only assuming that God's fulfillment of his plan is hinged on that. I gave a verse earlier as regards Jesus comment on offense, I will just summarize the take home, as it relates to this discussion, offences are inevitable but the judgement is on whom that commits them!

God's plan will be fulfilled but blessed are those that are used to fulfill it. If you don't make yourself available, others will be used and they will fulfill it! Your freewill made you lose out. Do you understand this?This analogy should also help you, imagine a game Dev has created a script that will spawn an antagonist. All what the script is concerned about is that an antagonist is spawned, it cares less what the object Id should be! The spawned antagonist could have an objectid of 00xf and it may not🤔. Invariably, I am buttressing what I have said earlier, some prophecies catch solely those that are available 🤔 to fulfill it, this is even confirmed in the bible when God asked who shall I send?

All in all, the specific outcome depends on the instructions and they are solely based on what God wants to achieve! You need to know the mind of God before you can ascertain further! As a generality without going to far into specifics, God influences man to achieve His will and man has free will to decide his outcome!

FreeIgboho:
That's why the whole thing DOES NOT ADD UP!!!
God has his perfect plan and everything must happen as and when they should to fulfill his plan - including you losing your keys. How does it make sense that he'd overturn everything, all his perfect plan since the beginning of the world just so you'd have your keys??

As for the 6 kids, your choice using your freewill is to have 10 kids. Anything outside yourself that pushes to have more or less has thwarted your will

Even you can thwart your own will! You can likewise choose not to have six again and it will be in line with Divine providence!🤔 I knew a dude that was told he was going to drop out, he rebutted, "Never" but as fate would have it. He got a great foreign job where he was paid $120k per year—He dropped out two years later, in his penultimate year, when he don chop better mula😂!

He decided and it went along with prophecy!
There are others like this, with prophecies fulfilled upon their heads in different ways! —Good and Bad👀!

Gabrielshow24:
It's not necessary that fulfillment of His plan is dependent on you losing your keys. There are major nodes and minor nodes. From scripture, it's expedient that Abraham knew God because on him is the prophecy hinged upon yet Abraham of his free will birthed our cousins👀, from these emanated enmity due to sibling rivalry later on that the whole world is still reaping from! This is enunciated in scripture in simple terms, "child of the free woman" and "child of the ... woman".

Thus, you can have/lose your key and in no wise affects God's plan! Some actions are mutually independent while others are not, you are only assuming that God's fulfillment of his plan is hinged on that. I gave a verse earlier as regards Jesus comment on offense, I will just summarize the take home, as it relates to this discussion, offences are inevitable but the judgement is on whom that commits them!

God's plan will be fulfilled but blessed are those that are used to fulfill it. If you don't make yourself available, others will be used and they will fulfill it! Your freewill made you lose out. Do you understand this?This analogy should also help you, imagine a game Dev has created a script that will spawn an antagonist. All what the script is concerned about is that an antagonist is spawned, it cares less what the object Id should be! The spawned antagonist could have an objectid of 00xf and it may not🤔. Invariably, I am buttressing what I have said earlier, some prophecies catch solely those that are available 🤔 to fulfill it, this is even confirmed in the bible when God asked who shall I send?

All in all, the specific outcome depends on the instructions and they are solely based on what God wants to achieve! You need to know the mind of God before you can ascertain further! As a generality without going to far into specifics, God influences man to achieve His will and man has free will to decide his outcome!

The thing though is, God is omniscient, knows every little thing to the minutest detail. Secondly God has a SET plan (not subject to change). When you combine those two elements, there is no space for freewill. Example, manger birth was prophesied hundreds of years in advance. Now let's say Joseph hears the inn could be full and he went into fasting and form a prayer group, all praying that there be space in the inn. If you say God won't answer that prayer, why would he answer any prayer??

Gabrielshow24:
Even you can thwart your own will! You can likewise choose not to have six again and it will be in line with Divine providence!🤔 I knew a dude that was told he was going to drop out, he rebutted, "Never" but as fate would have it. He got a great foreign job where he was paid $120k per year—He dropped out two years later, in his penultimate year, when he don chop better mula😂!

He decided and it went along with prophecy!
There are others like this, with prophecies fulfilled upon their heads in different ways! —Good and Bad👀!

So we're back to definition of freewill again. If you're so constrained that you only have one choice, how can you be said to have done whatever it is by freewill?? How is having no other choice freewill? In that case just about anything is freewill!

FreeIgboho:
The thing though is, God is omniscient, knows every little thing to the minutest detail. Secondly God has a SET plan (not subject to change). When you combine those two elements, there is no space for freewill. Example, manger birth was prophesied hundreds of years in advance. Now let's say Joseph hears the inn could be full and he went into fasting and form a prayer group, all praying that there be space in the inn. If you say God won't answer that prayer, why would he answer any prayer??

My bro, you keep giving these specific examples that I have already tackled generally. All these things you defined are just variables: there could be more inns and Mary's imminent labor could constrain them to the nearest inn, full by the way, along with many more variables! You also failed to acknowledge that they were also on a journey with Mary being heavily pregnant—Scientifically, "labor" could have descended upon her at any moment of the journey!

So far, you haven't disproved free will! God's plan is a generalized solution, the specifics are filled by variables! If you have done ODEs before then you should know they have general solutions and specific solutions. God's plan yields a general solution with each constraint yielding it's own specific solution! Thus if I want to get a specific solution, I just adjust some few variables/constraints and voila!

You are just appealing to probability, using what if? Likewise will someone going into a new town, as at that ancient era, be aware of inns that are full or not! Is it not when he gets there that he will ask?🤔 Unlike now, that I can ascertain when there are no reservations possible at a fancy restaurant or hotel!

The circumstances ensured the prophecy was fulfilled. Joseph's choices along with the coincidental census aligned with Divine will! —It's that simple, bro!

Gabrielshow24:
My bro, you keep giving these specific examples that I have already tackled generally. All these things you defined are just variables: there could be more inns and Mary's imminent labor could constrain them to the nearest inn, full by the way, along with many more variables! You also failed to acknowledge that they were also on a journey with Mary being heavily pregnant—Scientifically, "labor" could have descended upon her at any moment of the journey!

So far, you haven't disproved free will! God's plan is a generalized solution, the specifics are filled by variables! If you have done ODEs before then you should know they have general solutions and specific solutions. God's plan yields a general solution with each constraint yielding it's own specific solution! Thus if I want to get a specific solution, I just adjust some few variables/constraints and voila!

You are just appealing to probability, using what if? Likewise will someone going into a new town, as at that ancient era, be aware of inns that are full or not! Is it not when he gets there that he will ask?🤔 Unlike now, that I can ascertain when there are no reservations possible at a fancy restaurant or hotel!

The circumstances ensured the prophecy was fulfilled. Joseph's choices along with the coincidental census aligned with Divine will! —It's that simple, bro!

My dear brother this is not a matter of long talk. A simple question: will God (that knows everything and set his unchanging plan long ago) grant Joseph's prayer? If not, why would he grant ANY prayer??

FreeIgboho:
So we're back to definition of freewill again. If you're so constrained that you only have one choice, how can you be said to have done whatever it is by freewill?? How is having no other choice freewill? In that case just about anything is freewill!

My bro, you are born inherently with two choices, "be or not to be!" but in this context it becomes "Do or don't do"🤨. You can decide not to do anything, at least we have the story of the sluggard to exemplify that!

Even if you have one choice, you inherently have two! Do or don't do! Under the "do", there exists the optimal choice be it one or many! These stuffs are self-explanatory!

FreeIgboho:
My dear brother this is not a matter of long talk. A simple question: will God (that knows everything and set his unchanging plan long ago) grant Joseph's prayer? If not, why would he grant ANY prayer??

In your bid to defend the non-existence of free will, you have steered us to "prayer"👀. In the first place, why would Joseph make such a prayer? Is it not you putting this as a what if?🤨

Gabrielshow24:
My bro, you are born inherently with two choices, "be or not to be!" but in this context it becomes "Do or don't do"🤨. You can decide not to do anything, at least we have the story of the sluggard to exemplify that!

Even if you have one choice, you inherently have two! Do or don't do! Under the "do", there exists the optimal choice be it one or many! These stuffs are self-explanatory!

That's why it is all about definition. A new-born has a choice - to suck breast or not suck breast. Freewill! A pregnant woman has freewill about what day to bear her child! A person given a defective brain has freewill whether to have mental issues or not. A person destined to do something has freewill whether to do it or not! Freewill everywhere you look!😆

Gabrielshow24:
In your bid to defend the non-existence of free will, you have steered us to "prayer"👀. In the first place, why would Joseph make such a prayer? Is it not you putting this as a what if?🤨

What a question! Why do people make any prayer?? Including finding your keys, knowing fully well it is part of God's unchanging plan that you lose your keys?!!

FreeIgboho:
That's why it is all about definition. A new-born has a choice - to suck breast or not suck breast. Freewill! A pregnant woman has freewill about what day to bear her child! A person given a defective brain has freewill whether to have mental issues or not. A person destined to do something has freewill whether to do it or not! Freewill everywhere you look!😆

My bro, you are mixing things up. The child is physically (biologically) constrained to do such and a child that doesn't do such needs special attention but still the free will of the mother can decide against her going natural but artificial, likewise a person that has a defective brain due to situational or biological factor which may or not be caused by an ancient predecessor's exposure to chemical radicals or radioactivity is a physical constraint! A pregnant woman can decide to stress induce delivery all these have in no way negated free will.

To take home my point and in the spirit of Kamala Harris, kindly ask a Llm engine to generate a venn diagram to exemplify that apart from physical constrained-choices others are subject to your agency of choice!

In my mind, I run faster than flash but I am physically constrained that I can't run faster than the speed of light! 😂 In my mind, I am not subject to Gravity but yet I am reminded every now and then! Do you understand?

You are also confused as regards God's will. As I have said, there's the general solution —salvation of mankind 👀 and there's the specific solution depending on circumstances. If God really wants your pen to los it will los👌 but your free will is not diminished.

FreeIgboho:
What a question! Why do people make any prayer?? Including finding your keys, knowing fully well it is part of God's unchanging plan that you lose your keys?!!

this is skewed as you argue that all actions are predetermined! You only know those that are predetermined if you are told! As long as you are here, you will keep doing whatsoever pleases you and it may or not align with Divine will! Do you understand?

God out of preeminence tells you things that are to come and influences your actions to fulfill it! Simple crux of the matter!

What you are trying to defeat is the extreme form of pre-determinism, which I have in no way hinted at!

Dtruthspeaker, freeIgboho can you guys type Zeta uniform tango tango without getting Beta alpha November! I have used this word in combination with "Alpha Lima -" and every single time I got beta alpha novembered😁. There use to be a time when free speech was encouraged here, now...👀I can't even give my candid opinion because of that tango hotel india november golf!

Probably, such a word was ffffla(g-g)ed as off-ensive but why 😭? No matter the section, whenever I use this word I get some undeserving consequence🤕. I can't even remind our Abrahamic cousins about this word, it's such a shame🥺.

Gabrielshow24:
My bro, you are mixing things up. The child is physically (biologically) constrained to do such and a child that doesn't do such needs special attention but still the free will of the mother can decide against her going natural but artificial, likewise a person that has a defective brain due to situational or biological factor which may or not be caused by an ancient predecessor's exposure to chemical radicals or radioactivity is a physical constraint! A pregnant woman can decide to stress induce delivery all these have in no way negated free will.

To take home my point and in the spirit of Kamala Harris, kindly ask a Llm engine to generate a venn diagram to exemplify that apart from physical constrained-choices others are subject to your agency of choice!

In my mind, I run faster than flash but I am physically constrained that I can't run faster than the speed of light! 😂 In my mind, I am not subject to Gravity but yet I am reminded every now and then! Do you understand?

You are also confused as regards God's will. As I have said, there's the general solution —salvation of mankind 👀 and there's the specific solution depending on circumstances. If God really wants your pen to los it will los👌 but your free will is not diminished.

My good bros what I don't understand about people like you is the inability to say "I DON'T KNOW!". There are things simply beyond human reasoning - example, God is everywhere and at same time localized in heaven, or hearing billions of prayers simultaneously. Or can you also explain those with chess theory?

Just imagine, all this time you've been trying to find a way to make two mutually exclusive things simultaneously true, instead of simply admitting it doesn't make sense from human perspective!

Example:
1. You CAN'T change your destiny. It's simply impossible - that's why it's called destiny!
2. You CAN change your destiny using chess theory because you have freewill, don't you know!

Another:
1. God's plan is set and unfolding exactly the way he wants it down to the most minute level, and can never change.
2. God's unchanging plan can be changed with prayers!

Of course I pray all the time but it doesn't prevent me from admitting that there are things beyond our reasoning as human beings!

Gabrielshow24:
Dtruthspeaker, freeIgboho can you guys type Zeta uniform tango tango without getting Beta alpha November! I have used this word in combination with "Alpha Lima -" and every single time I got beta alpha novembered😁. There use to be a time when free speech was encouraged here, now...👀I can't even give my candid opinion because of that tango hotel india november golf!

Probably, such a word was ffffla(g-g)ed as off-ensive but why 😭? No matter the section, whenever I use this word I get some undeserving consequence🤕. I can't even remind our Abrahamic cousins about this word, it's such a shame🥺.

I honestly don't quite get. What word are you being baned for?

FreeIgboho:
My good bros what I don't understand about people like you is the inability to say "I DON'T KNOW!". There are things simply beyond human reasoning - example, God is everywhere and at same time localized in heaven, or hearing billions of prayers simultaneously. Or can you also explain those with chess theory?

Just imagine, all this time you've been trying to find a way to make two mutually exclusive things simultaneously true, instead of simply admitting it doesn't make sense from human perspective!

Example:
1. You CAN'T change your destiny. It's simply impossible - that's why it's called destiny!
2. You CAN change your destiny using chess theory because you have freewill, don't you know!

Another:
1. God's plan is set and unfolding exactly the way he wants it down to the most minute level, and can never change.
2. God's unchanging plan can be changed with prayers!

Of course I pray all the time but it doesn't prevent me from admitting that there are things beyond our reasoning as human beings!

Have I in any way passed this across? Your argument is centred on free will and we have looked at it from both God's and Man's perspective. We came to an agreement during our discourse on man's free will that he has free will but we never agreed on the God point, as you intended to use God's omniscient as a dismassal of man's free will which is wrong!

Those things are not related with free will, your problem statement is not centered on "mysteries of God" or "unexplainable things" but rather on "the non-existence of free will due to God's omniscience"!

All these you are doing can be construed as being partizan of the Motte and Bailey fallacy. You think because I can't explain all these things that your argument is True 🤦🏾‍♂️, how are they related? Chess theory is subject to human choice, from start till end!

The maze analogy I gave answers these questions, God's plan that you reach an expected end can be influenced by him to attain such!

You can't know what is predetermined if God doesn't tell you!
You can change your destiny! Destiny is only fulfilled when the person is in God! It's what God intends for the person but when the person is not in God, he makes for himself his outcome! It's like a glove, it's only useful when God wears it, it doesn't matter whether the glove adorns itself with gold and says to itself that "it has fulfilled destiny!" 🤦🏾‍♂️

Thus, circumstances can change/fulfill destiny!
Prayer is just appealing to God to dish out favorable instances to you! Like the maze I talked about earlier, if the path A is swapped for B for the sake of some actor it invariably affects others! We are all linked and because of this, some people's destinies are bundled together because they all have similar end points—Take for instance Israel, whose end goal was the promised land but yet only two entered therein from the generation that left Egypt! Hence a simple shift affects the equilibrium of the system and it will accommodate for it elsewhere!

There's the general plan and the there's the specific plan, God's specific plan takes effect when there is a symbiotic relationship between God and the actor but when there is none the actor does whatsoever he wills with probabilistic chances of it aligning with God's will! The general plan as regards the messiah coming, rising and gathering us all at the last day is in play! With coming and rising already fulfilled! The actions of those during these periods invariably fulfilled divine will!

FreeIgboho:
I honestly don't quite get. What word are you being baned for?

"The word that must not be posted"👀! The words immediately after the first "type" express the root word. The article is expressed by the words after "with". Join both together and you have the word😁. Our Abrahamic cousins are well aware of it👀, I have used it severally in my discourse with them!

Gabrielshow24:
Have I in any way passed this across? Your argument is centred on free will and we have looked at it from both God's and Man's perspective. We came to an agreement during our discourse on man's free will that he has free will but we never agreed on the God point, as you intended to use God's omniscient as a dismassal of man's free will which is wrong!

Those things are not related with free will, your problem statement is not centered on "mysteries of God" or "unexplainable things" but rather on "the non-existence of free will due to God's omniscience"!

All these you are doing can be construed as being partizan of the Motte and Bailey fallacy. You think because I can't explain all these things that your argument is True 🤦🏾‍♂️, how are they related? Chess theory is subject to human choice, from start till end!

The maze analogy I gave answers these questions, God's plan that you reach an expected end can be influenced by him to attain such!

You can't know what is predetermined if God doesn't tell you!
You can change your destiny! Destiny is only fulfilled when the person is in God! It's what God intends for the person but when the person is not in God, he makes for himself his outcome! It's like a glove, it's only useful when God wears it, it doesn't matter whether the glove adorns itself with gold and says to itself that "it has fulfilled destiny!" 🤦🏾‍♂️

Thus, circumstances can change/fulfill destiny!
Prayer is just appealing to God to dish out favorable instances to you! Like the maze I talked about earlier, if the path A is swapped for B for the sake of some actor it invariably affects others! We are all linked and because of this, some people's destinies are bundled together because they all have similar end points—Take for instance Israel, whose end goal was the promised land but yet only two entered therein from the generation that left Egypt! Hence a simple shift affects the equilibrium of the system and it will accommodate for it elsewhere!

There's the general plan and the there's the specific plan, God's specific plan takes effect when there is a symbiotic relationship between God and the actor but when there is none the actor does whatsoever he wills with probabilistic chances of it aligning with God's will! The general plan as regards the messiah coming, rising and gathering us all at the last day is in play! With coming and rising already fulfilled! The actions of those during these periods invariably fulfilled divine will!

EVERYTHING has to be predetermined because God knows all future actions down to the smallest detail.
See below

Gabrielshow24:
"The word that must not be posted"👀! The words immediately after the first "type" express the root word. The article is expressed by the words after "with". Join both together and you have the word😁. Our Abrahamic cousins are well aware of it👀, I have used it severally in my discourse with them!

Zuttal?

FreeIgboho:
EVERYTHING has to be predetermined because God knows all future actions down to the smallest detail.
See below

"It could be argued", the context of this I have explained severally above! "All possible paths are known"—check my maze analogy again and reflect upon it. it's also similar to the way an architect knows the layout of a building and all possible paths within it but it doesn't negate the path choice any visitor!

That's why I used chess theory to sell my point, I also used chess engines (which are known to calculate deeply, analyzing positions 40+ moves deep! —These engines are aware of the moves you can take but this in no wise negates your free will!) as well as others!

The context of this omniscience is simply put the ability of God to know the outcome of every possible choice!
Thus it doesn't matter whether you choose the blue pill or red pill God is aware of the outcomes of both! It's like him being aware of the state of Schrodinger's cat without the need of peering into the box! —whether the cat is alive or dead when you open it, God is aware of it but you decide the outcome 🤨, is it dead for you or alive?

I can't go any further than this, if you can't understand then there is nothing I can do, you are already pre-determined not to be convinced 👀—when your free will is constantly rearing its head 😅!

FreeIgboho:
Zuttal?

close, put the article before the root word, be careful lest the powers that be beta alpha November you👀!

Gabrielshow24:
"It could be argued", the context of this I have explained severally above! "All possible paths are known"—check my maze analogy again and reflect upon it. it's also similar to the way an architect knows the layout of a building and all possible paths within it but it doesn't negate the path choice any visitor!

That's why I used chess theory to sell my point, I also used chess engines (which are known to calculate deeply, analyzing positions 40+ moves deep! —These engines are aware of the moves you can take but this in no wise negates your free will!) as well as others!

The context of this omniscience is simply put the ability of God to know the outcome of every possible choice!
Thus it doesn't matter whether you choose the blue pill or red pill God is aware of the outcomes of both! It's like him being aware of the state of Schrodinger's cat without the need of peering into the box! —whether the cat is alive or dead when you open it, God is aware of it but you decide the outcome 🤨, is it dead for you or alive?

I can't go any further than this, if you can't understand then there is nothing I can do, you are already pre-determined not to be convinced 👀—when your free will is constantly rearing its head 😅!

It is not a matter of being already determined not to be convinced. It is a matter of KNOWING something 100%.
I know 100% you have NO WAY of knowing if free will exists BECAUSE you have no way of knowing where thoughts come from!
How do you know you have free will? Where do your thoughts come from? How do you know you're not designed to THINK you have free will??

So you shouldn't be discussing freewill with all this authority just because you happen to know chess!


MaxInDHouse, Janosky, LordReed, DeepSight,
tctrills, Dtruthspeaker, Everyday247, Ruke1990, sonmvayina, MeetDx
/////////////
jimRohn, Kobojunkie, FxMasterz, maynman, DrJones109, Jesusjnr2022, Jaephoenix, JessicaRabbit, Knownunknown, BBIA HellVictorinho6, SIXFEETUNDER, OkpaNsukkaisBae, Bacteriologist, FRANCISTOWN, SIRTee15, Aemmyjah, TheSourcerer, Busybrain2233, 1Sharon, TakeNigeriaBack,
Botragelad, isan, Fourthpredator,
seun, hopefullandlord, bobestman, Lorrayne, HardMirror, Hahn, SlawG, albreezy4eva, Muslim, Dominique, Mrbroke, EnemyofGod2, kkins25, Wilgrea7, A001, Maynthemayn, Boomark

Gabrielshow24:
close, put the article before the root word, be careful lest the powers that be beta alpha November you👀!

I think I now get. Unusual word.
Please what does it mean?