₦airaland Forum

Gabrielshow24:
The bolded are lies, in that same thread; I replied all sons of Arri-aaan!

You don't even have a problem statement 😂 and you make errors that shouldn't be found from a supposed English Major! —Errors in understanding by the way👀; I'm not that petty to count grammatical errors 👀!

You aim to disprove that Jesus isn't God yet you haven't given us an ontological and epistemological definition of God. How then can you show us that Jesus isn't God? When you don't know what makes God God? 😂

So far all what you have done is show, identity-wise, that Jesus is not the Father which is redundant as trinity already exemplifies!

Even if we indulge you as regards Jesus, what shall you say of the Spirit? Is there something that God can do that his Spirit can't 🤔? Perhaps in your inveighed world this is possible!

All that I said is true.

You needed proof and I gave it to you.

You don't know what else to do but to type long out of point essay.

You made Jesus Christ a liar.

Screenshot and proof conquers long twisted essay.

Gabrielshow24:
God apparently gave him heads up about the circumstances planned for him by the other side👀. It doesn't negate his free will...my bad, It didn't negate his free will. It just showed he didn't handle the situation well! If the situation was from God then that's the way God intended for him to go but the context impugns this!

Thus, he had months to seek the Lord's face and change his fate—obviously planned for him by the people of darknesse👀! Such pronouncement against institutional terrestrial powers needs God's backing. You can't be a banal person and in Elijah-esque style go and challenge Jezebel 🤧—Wisdom doesn't dictate such!

Still, we rejoice that he was found in the Lord, all things being equal👀!

What's wrong with people??! The man was returning from a crusade where they prayed all night against those exact evil forces. What else do you want him to do??! Theoretically he could have avoided it if he had gone to a party or simply stayed home!

Only block theory perfectly explains this. just as our eyes see automatically, and our hearts beat automatically, it seems to me all of life could be just as automaric - but has a built-in illusion that has us thinking we're the ones causing things to happen!

As for freewill, think of all the freewills that have to perfectly align for a single prophesied occurrence to happen! Just a single freewill doing from any of the characters could derail the whole prophecy!

FreeIgboho:
What's wrong with people??! The man was returning from a crusade where they prayed all night against those exact evil forces. What else do you want him to do??! Theoretically he could have avoided it if he had gone to a party or simply stayed home!

Only block theory perfectly explains this. just as our eyes see automatically, and our hearts beat automatically, it seems to me all of life could be just as automaric - but has a built-in illusion that has us thinking we're the ones causing things to happen!

As for freewill, think of all the freewills that have to perfectly align for a single prophesied occurrence to happen! Just a single freewill doing from any of the characters could derail the whole prophecy!

I do know some medical problems that are not solved by one dose of a drug! There goes your analogy!

Whether he was just coming back from crusade or not doesn't mean the problem was tackled. it's God that should be the judge of the that! You assuming that is rather faulty👀. I am a living testimony of evil words that God averted! In my case, I was so lackadaisical but God's mercy saved me!

Now, I don't want to talk about whether or not he sufficiently prayed inorder to have averted it but one thing I do know, if it comes from the other side👀, it's only God that can change it. Since it wasn't changed, it showed efforts were less or his mind was made up either way!👀

Brother, it's not an objective evidence to disprove the existence of free will.

Boomark:
Matthew 7:22-23 HCSB
[22] On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name? ’ [23] Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’

From my experience and things done to me personally, I have seen law breakers. Those who preach, conduct services but still pervert justice. Still deceive people and more. But whenever you see them preaching you will feel they are too great in the spirit.

Here on nairaland, I see liars who twist the word of God to suit their man-made doctrine but are still preaching. At times I wonder if they really know that those who lie to defend a church or doctrine are not doing it for God.

The will of God is greater than all these things. I don't know what happened to him but I know some of them still practice wickedness even as preachers.


You can take the challenge, let's see if the bible actually connect the Father, Son, and Holy spirit in a unity way. Don't be afraid or you can nominate someone.

Ok, let's unpack this the way it actually is. God knew or has this as part of his plan before the foundation of the world. Same God gave him his personality, circumstances, and brain. You really think if this were canceled it's NOT because God intended it to be canceled from the beginning of time?
It's amazing how simplistic we are!

DeepSight:
Oga, if someone knows exactly what you will do in 10, 000 years time, you had no choice.

For crysake! The amazing thing is that they think if it were to be changed it is NOT because God intended it to be changed from the beginning, but because of some innocuous thing the did yesterday (which, BTW, God already knew they were going to do!)

Gabrielshow24:
I do know some medical problems that are not solved by one dose of a drug! There goes your analogy!

Whether he was just coming back from crusade or not doesn't mean the problem was tackled. it's God that should be the judge of the that! You assuming that is rather faulty👀. I am a living testimony of evil words that God averted! In my case, I was so lackadaisical but God's mercy saved me!

Now, I don't want to talk about whether or not he sufficiently prayed inorder to have averted it but one thing I do know, if it comes from the other side👀, it's only God that can change it. Since it wasn't changed, it showed efforts were less or his mind was made up either way!👀

Brother, it's not an objective evidence to disprove the existence of free will.

If you REALLY THINK about all this It is amazing how simplistic we are!
Soo God knew before the foundation of the world he'd have this accident, it's part of his plan. Same God gave him his personality, circumstances, and brain. So because of some innocuous thing he did yesterday (which, BTW, God already knew he was going to do) all that will be thrown out. We are really soo DUMB!!

Gabrielshow24:
Now, I don't want to talk about whether or not he sufficiently prayed inorder to have averted it but one thing I do know, if it comes from the other side👀, it's only God that can change it. Since it wasn't changed, it showed efforts were less or his mind was made up either way!👀

Do you think Jesus insufficiently prayed to avert the cross? Do you think any amount of prayers could have averted it? How can something come from "the other side" and yet almighty God allows it on his own. Are you saying God was not aware of it until prayers? What exactly are prayers meant to do?

FreeIgboho:
If you REALLY THINK about all this It is amazing how simplistic we are!
Soo God knew before the foundation of the world he'd have this accident, it's part of his plan. Same God gave him his personality, circumstances, and brain. So because of some innocuous thing he did yesterday (which, BTW, God already knew he was going to do) all that will be thrown out. We are really soo DUMB!!

It's part of what plan👀, why the misinformation 🤧? How does whatsoever you wrote up there tally with my submissions?

God knowing all the possible outcomes doesn't necessarily mean that those outcomes are his will! —This is something a Christian like you should have understood 👀 not this censure you call a remark!

Let me give you this final analogy, see the world as a two sided cone with one side open! The open side serves for God's will, while the other side encapsulates us all. Decision can come from both sides, but God won't infringe on your free will, this makes our actions our own, only when God decides to do something that he influences whatsoever he needs to! How then did you know that God did this?😂 the fact he was warned is evidence to the contrary!

It's insufficient evidence to disprove free will! I don't need deepsight's approbation of your perspective! My previous remonstrations are sufficient to prove otherwise. Or shall we say because Alan Turing knew the direction the world was inclining to negated free will? That's absurd! An intelligent mind can know these things talk less of an omniscient God, He is aware of all choices and outcomes but you will choose them by yourself!

Be it in a year's time, or millions of years into the future! You will decide your outcome! 👀

Boomark:
You can take the challenge, let's see if the bible actually connect the Father, Son, and Holy spirit in a unity way. Don't be afraid or you can nominate someone.

I'm NOT sure you read the OP of this thread. Though a great book, the Bible is still just words in a book. Words handled and mishandled by many, many men for a long time. Jesus is alive and active in people's lives. Just as Rome couldn't stamp out Christianity, just as Arianism died out, if God were not behind Trinity it would not have survived and thrived this long, as it is something that's affects God PERSONALLY!



Here's part of the OP:

Before you dispute any of these remember:

1) You don't have the foggiest idea what God is like, nor can you imagine what he is like.

2) You don't have the foggiest idea what God's attributes are. So forget all the attributes you have in your head - they were assigned by man. You simply don't have the foggiest idea what God's attributes are or are not. So forget all attributes you assign to God!

3) If God is explained to you as straight forward and quite uncomplicated, you can be sure they are giving u man's version of God, NOT God as he is.

4) God exists in a dimension you can neither visualize, explain, nor comprehend.

5) So how do you know God? The ONLY way is the way it happened with Jesus. ANYONE that all those things happened with is God the Son of God. You can't know him any other way. You can't know him by logic, reasoning, or attributes. THAT IS THE ONLY WAY!!

FreeIgboho:
Do you think Jesus insufficiently prayed to avert the cross? Do you think any amount of prayers could have averted it? How can something come from "the other side" and yet almighty God allows it on his own. Are you saying God was not aware of it until prayers? What exactly are prayers meant to do?

It seems you are putting your entire thesis on a gnat. It's vapid and doesn't avail you much!
The subject matter wasn't about prayer, even though we have tackled such before👀, it's about free will!

I used the illustration that perhaps he didn't take the necessary steps to avoid it or he embraced it, I accounted for both instances be it from God or from the other side. Still, I believe given the context of the image that his life was taken from him by the other side!—I stand to be corrected as I am speaking from insufficient divine information likewise yourself.

From this sentiment of mine, you decided to make it your pokrovsk👀. it's a specific probabilistic solution aimed to exemplify a problem, it's not an absolute solution. There are lots of variables, I gave hints suggesting the lack of information present! How do we know if he was in Christ at that moment? How do we know whether he prayed as regards it after this vigil? Or was his prayer tenable to avail him? I don't have time for what ifs! If you hoped to base your new submissions on this, then it's flawed.

As regards Jesus, we saw he aligned himself to God's divine will. Also, it seems rather appalling that when I brought Jesus as an evidence you didn't give a definite answer.The remaining questions should have been answered in your Sunday school—why God allows the existence of evil?

Gabrielshow24:
It's part of what plan👀, why the misinformation 🤧? How does whatsoever you wrote up there tally with my submissions?

God knowing all the possible outcomes doesn't necessarily mean that those outcomes are his will! —This is something a Christian like you should have understood 👀 not this censure you call a remark!

Let me give you this final analogy, see the world as a two sided cone with one side open! The open side serves for God's will, while the other side encapsulates us all. Decision can come from both sides, but God won't infringe on your free will, this makes our actions our own, only when God decides to do something that he influences whatsoever he needs to! How then did you know that God did this?😂 the fact he was warned is evidence to the contrary!

It's insufficient evidence to disprove free will! I don't need deepsight's approbation of your perspective! My previous remonstrations are sufficient to prove otherwise. Or shall we say because Alan Turing knew the direction the world was inclining to negated free will? That's absurd! An intelligent mind can know these things talk less of an omniscient God, He is aware of all choices and outcomes but you will choose them by yourself!

Be it in a year's time, or millions of years into the future! You will decide your outcome! 👀

Do you have the freewill to become a lizard?
Do you have the freewill to spend the next day in the Andromeda Galaxy?

Do you have the freewill to change the sequences of cause and effect?

Do you have the freewill to change the nature of your genes and the immutable consequences of same?

Do you have the freewill to change the design of the universe?

You have not even started. You have not thought through the issues. You simply want to retain the position that omniscience co-exists side by side with freewill. Anything which is known you will do by an entity that cannot be wrong, and who set in motion all creation, you are condemned to doing. A character in a book cannot change what is known by the writer of the book.

You are a mere shadow of a thought in the mind of a being you cannot comprehend.

Do you have the freewill to become God?

Gabrielshow24:
It's part of what plan👀, why the misinformation 🤧? How does whatsoever you wrote up there tally with my submissions?

God knowing all the possible outcomes doesn't necessarily mean that those outcomes are his will! —This is something a Christian like you should have understood 👀 not this censure you call a remark!

Let me give you this final analogy, see the world as a two sided cone with one side open! The open side serves for God's will, while the other side encapsulates us all. Decision can come from both sides, but God won't infringe on your free will, this makes our actions our own, only when God decides to do something that he influences whatsoever he needs to! How then did you know that God did this?😂 the fact he was warned is evidence to the contrary!

It's insufficient evidence to disprove free will! I don't need deepsight's approbation of your perspective! My previous remonstrations are sufficient to prove otherwise. Or shall we say because Alan Turing knew the direction the world was inclining to negated free will? That's absurd! An intelligent mind can know these things talk less of an omniscient God, He is aware of all choices and outcomes but you will choose them by yourself!

Be it in a year's time, or millions of years into the future! You will decide your outcome! 👀

I see I have wasted my time. So after all I've explained you're still talking of free will.
Ok, I'll give you the full picture. Please tell me exactly where there is space for freewill.

A child is born, he has no hand in anything he was given including his very brain and personality. His brain starts working immediately, gathering info and programming itself, all independent of his input. Based on these info, thoughts appear in the child's consciousness without his input and based on these thoughts he takes actions. These are his thoughts and he has no power to override them. And even if he did, he'd still override them with thoughts that come from the same brain processes he has no control over. This continues all life long.
Please show us the space for freewill in all this

DeepSight:
Do you have the freewill to become a lizard?
Do you have the freewill to spend the next day in the Andromeda Galaxy?

Do you have the freewill to change the sequences of cause and effect?

Do you have the freewill to change the nature of your genes and the immutable consequences of same?

Do you have the freewill to change the design of the universe?

You have not even started. You have not thought through the issues. You simply want to retain the position that omniscience co-exists side by side with freewill. Anything which is known you will do by an entity that cannot be wrong, and who set in motion all creation, you are condemned to doing. A character in a book cannot change what is known by the writer of the book.

You are a mere shadow of a thought in the mind of a being you cannot comprehend.

Do you have the freewill to become God?

Thanks for your submissions. I have treated all these under physical constraints!

I am not concerned about such physical constraints, they exist and are part of the immanent subjective nature of the physical world but your actions are transeunt!

FreeIgboho:
I see I have wasted my time. So after all I've explained you're still talking of free will.
Ok, I'll give you the full picture. Please tell me exactly where there is space for freewill.

A child is born, he has no hand in anything he was given including his very brain and personality. His brain starts working immediately, gathering info and programming itself, all independent of his input. Based on these info, thoughts appear in the child's consciousness without his input and based on these thoughts he takes actions. These are his thoughts and he has no power to override them. And even if he did, he'd still override them with thoughts that come from the same brain processes he has no control over. This continues all life long.
Please show us the space for freewill in all this

You keep going back in circles. I have discussed these as physical constraints. Probably, you have been gleaning over my posts with less thought.

Irrespective of these so called physical constraints which can't be changed everything else is based on your emanant volition!—I thought I told you to ask an LLM to generate a venn diagram for you👀... Well, it's good.

You keep going back to this formicant heartbeat of your argument! So far... Let me do a recap🤔. We have argued about "freewill" , both from the perspective of man and the divine, "prayer" and other expostulations of yours. Now we are back to man's perspective, once more 🤕.

Let me state this clearly, anything apart from constraints is based on your volition! As simple as that. It's a coexisting system. You don't have much handle on these complex systems—as at now👀! While it can influence yours👀!

Gabrielshow24:
You keep going back in circles. I have discussed these as physical constraints. Probably, you have been gleaning over my posts with less thought.

Irrespective of these so called physical constraints which can't be changed everything else is based on your emanant volition!—I thought I told you to ask an LLM to generate a venn diagram for you👀... Well, it's good.

You keep going back to this formicant heartbeat of your argument! So far... Let me do a recap🤔. We have argued about "freewill" , both from the perspective of man and the divine, "prayer" and other expostulations of yours. Now we are back to man's perspective, once more 🤕.

Let me state this clearly, anything apart from constraints is based on your volition! As simple as that. It's a coexisting system. You don't have much handle on these complex systems—as at now👀! While it can influence yours👀!

Please, you were asked a simple question my good brother, even discounting the fact God already knows everything you'll ever do, WHERE exactly is the space for freewill?
See how I simply and briefly explained mine? Do same in telling us exactly where freewill fits in, exactly where it'll come from

FreeIgboho:
Please, you were asked a simple question my good brother, even discounting the fact God already knows everything you'll ever do, WHERE exactly is the space for freewill?
See how I simply and briefly explained mine? Do same in telling us exactly where freewill fits in, exactly where it'll come from

what aspect of emanant don't you understand? I have summarized mine also.

Gabrielshow24:
Thanks for your submissions. I have treated all these under physical constraints!

I am not concerned about such physical constraints, they exist and are part of the immanent subjective nature of the physical world but your actions are transeunt!

Those constraints simply prove that you are limited, not free.

DeepSight:
Those constraints simply prove that you are limited, not free.

Probably, you missed the memo on definition of free will. None of it negates your agency of choice!

You can't sull just because of pre-determined systems when you apparently have the agency of choice to engage with them.

Gabrielshow24:
Probably, you missed the memo on definition of free will. None of it negates your agency of choice!

You can't sull just because of pre-determined systems when you apparently have the agency of choice to engage with them.

Oya now, can you choose to be a lizard?
Answer me.

DeepSight:
Oya now, can you choose to be a lizard?
Answer me.

What aspect of physical constraints don't you understand? 👀 Even at this, there are some that go through expensive surgeries to resemble such creatures; that's evidence to agency of choice to try and bend physical constraints! Not, contrary!

You make use of what you have been given and you decide your outcome! As simple as that!

Higher powers of nairaland keep inhibiting me from replying my piaffed brother in the Lord, the one and only disparager of the truth👀—Trinity!

Gabrielshow24:
What aspect of physical constraints don't you understand? 👀 Even at this, there are some that go through expensive surgeries to resemble such creatures; that's evidence to agency of choice to try and bend physical constraints! Not, contrary!

You make use of what you have been given and you decide your outcome! As simple as that!

A constrained thing cannot be called free.

DeepSight:
A constrained thing cannot be called free.

It's free by matter of boundary! You can say it's not free when abluminal characteristics are in view until then it's free!

A.I. agents are placed in fashioned scenarios and their agency of choice is pitted against that scenario. The scenario itself doesn't negate the inherent and intrinsic volition of the agent! Never!

If this is your yardstick for disproving free will then it's flawed!

Gabrielshow24:
It's free by matter of boundary! You can say it's not free when abluminal characteristics are in view until then it's free!

A.I. agents are placed in fashioned scenarios and their agency of choice is pitted against that scenario. The scenario itself doesn't negate the inherent and intrinsic volition of the agent! Never!

If this is your yardstick for disproving free will then it's flawed!

There are several yardsticks.
Deal with this first.

Constraints are the same as a handcuff or a jail.

Gabrielshow24:
what aspect of emanant don't you understand? I have summarized mine also.

😅No response. The truth is the truth no matter how inconvenient!
It's like saying a computer has some mysterious "freewill" that will allow it to NOT do what it's programmed to do!

Gabrielshow24:
It seems you are putting your entire thesis on a gnat. It's vapid and doesn't avail you much!
The subject matter wasn't about prayer, even though we have tackled such before👀, it's about free will!

I used the illustration that perhaps he didn't take the necessary steps to avoid it or he embraced it, I accounted for both instances be it from God or from the other side. Still, I believe given the context of the image that his life was taken from him by the other side!—I stand to be corrected as I am speaking from insufficient divine information likewise yourself.

From this sentiment of mine, you decided to make it your pokrovsk👀. it's a specific probabilistic solution aimed to exemplify a problem, it's not an absolute solution. There are lots of variables, I gave hints suggesting the lack of information present! How do we know if he was in Christ at that moment? How do we know whether he prayed as regards it after this vigil? Or was his prayer tenable to avail him? I don't have time for what ifs! If you hoped to base your new submissions on this, then it's flawed.

As regards Jesus, we saw he aligned himself to God's divine will. Also, it seems rather appalling that when I brought Jesus as an evidence you didn't give a definite answer.The remaining questions should have been answered in your Sunday school—why God allows the existence of evil?

Why DOES God allow evil, since you know 4 sure!
The question you were asked was: wasn't God aware his servant was in danger, so why must there be all those multitude of prayers?

Gabrielshow24:
It seems you are putting your entire thesis on a gnat. It's vapid and doesn't avail you much!
The subject matter wasn't about prayer, even though we have tackled such before👀, it's about free will!

I used the illustration that perhaps he didn't take the necessary steps to avoid it or he embraced it, I accounted for both instances be it from God or from the other side. Still, I believe given the context of the image that his life was taken from him by the other side!—I stand to be corrected as I am speaking from insufficient divine information likewise yourself.

From this sentiment of mine, you decided to make it your pokrovsk👀. it's a specific probabilistic solution aimed to exemplify a problem, it's not an absolute solution. There are lots of variables, I gave hints suggesting the lack of information present! How do we know if he was in Christ at that moment? How do we know whether he prayed as regards it after this vigil? Or was his prayer tenable to avail him? I don't have time for what ifs! If you hoped to base your new submissions on this, then it's flawed.

As regards Jesus, we saw he aligned himself to God's divine will. Also, it seems rather appalling that when I brought Jesus as an evidence you didn't give a definite answer.The remaining questions should have been answered in your Sunday school—why God allows the existence of evil?

Why DOES God allow evil? (Since you know 4 sure!)
The question you were asked was: wasn't God aware his servant was in danger, so why must there be all those multitude of prayers?

FreeIgboho:
I'm NOT sure you read the OP of this thread. Though a great book, the Bible is still just words in a book. Words handled and mishandled by many, many men for a long time. Jesus is alive and active in people's lives. Just as Rome couldn't stamp out Christianity, just as Arianism died out, if God were not behind Trinity it would not have survived and thrived this long, as it is something that's affects God PERSONALLY!



Here's part of the OP:

Before you dispute any of these remember:

1) You don't have the foggiest idea what God is like, nor can you imagine what he is like.

2) You don't have the foggiest idea what God's attributes are. So forget all the attributes you have in your head - they were assigned by man. You simply don't have the foggiest idea what God's attributes are or are not. So forget all attributes you assign to God!

3) If God is explained to you as straight forward and quite uncomplicated, you can be sure they are giving u man's version of God, NOT God as he is.

4) God exists in a dimension you can neither visualize, explain, nor comprehend.

5) So how do you know God? The ONLY way is the way it happened with Jesus. ANYONE that all those things happened with is God the Son of God. You can't know him any other way. You can't know him by logic, reasoning, or attributes. THAT IS THE ONLY WAY!!

Idol worship has been thriving before Abraham was born till date. Is God also behind it? Never. I don't reason like this. But Idol worshiper will tell you the same thing you are telling me. Their own has been existing long before Christianity started.


Trinity Is thriving on lies and the delusion cast on people. It will make them to avoid the scripture at all cost so they will continue remaining in that lie.

Just like what you people are doing now. So afraid to look into your bible for the truth.

What you posted is the op own personal human opinion. The truth is in the bible. Did you ask him where he learnt about God and his personality? Why is everyone so afraid to go back there and point it out? It is because they are all twisted lies.

Jehovah's witnesses are still standing and thriving despite all the persecutions against them. They don't believe in trinity and they will also tell you that God is behind them.

You see why that kind of reasoning will land anyone into falsehood and they will continue to remain in it.

Christians are now afraid to search their bible. They prefer to listen to men and YouTube videos.

FreeIgboho:
😅No response. The truth is the truth no matter how inconvenient!
It's like saying a computer has some mysterious "freewill" that will allow it to NOT do what it's programmed to do!

My God, why are you this befuddled? Scientists have dropped such mindsets about the brain into ... —can't exactly use the term I want because of the constraints 😅of a fellow, you can substitute any befitting term based on the context!

The new scientific model sees the brain as a pattern matching automated system, it's the basis for A.I.—I need not say much your analogy is insufficient as A.I. agents have intrinsic factors of internalization that produce a response!

Your brain is not a pseudo programmed computer as you claimed it to be. This is very far fetched!