₦airaland Forum

chimex38:
Hmmm..quite plausible.

So what i picked is that the First and the Last used in Isaiah and Revelation are context based and not literally same meaning. Cuz I know revelation talks more about spirits, the dead, judgement and the likes.

Ok. Thank you.

You didn't see how he purposely ignored the @red-color part because he has to twist the scripture to suit his own agenda.

Only those who don't know the scripture can be swept under a false doctrine.

Can you imagine him saying "So Jesus is here talking about a spirit son of God who once lived for uncountable years in the spirit realms but once died and was raised back to live forever."

Jesus being The FIRST and The Last as Yahweh claimed in Isaiah proved that Jesus is God Almighty but they must twist the scripture because they are never a friend of God's Word.

Else where in Revelation Jesus also called Himself "The Alpha and The Omega" something no CREATURE can ever claim.

If you even do a little online check, you won't be surprised that Watchtower the body that is in charge of doctrine of Jws never gives that verse such explanation the way he's trying to explain that verse. Which makes it obvious that he's contracting the so called body he believes Jesus his directing.

@MaxInDHouse.
Good day.
Still on the matter,
But Thomas a direct apostle of Jesus Worshiped Jesus after he doubted his ressurection in John 20:28
...In answer Thomas said to him: “My Lord and my God!”

Also various biblical versions have that the blind man Jesus healed worshiped Jesus, in NWT it says obeisance
John 9:38(NWT):
He said: “I do put faith in him, Lord.” And he did obeisance to him.
(Obeisance meaning a kind of "respect" from Dictionary.)
I believe this is more of semantics and linguistics difference that only scholars of translations can proof.

My questions are:
1) Why didn't Jesus rebuke Thomas for showing act of worship just as the Angel did to John in Rev 22:9 & Rev 19:10

2) Based on the context of what happened, is the blind man putting his entire Faith in Jesus not synonymous to worship?
Is our salvation not also hinged on Faith and believe in Jesus as well? John 3:16.

3)How do one go about his daily life having faith and believe in Jesus and yet reserve worship to God alone?

chimex38:
My questions are:
1) Why didn't Jesus rebuke Thomas for showing act of worship just as the Angel did to John in Rev 22:9 & Rev 19:10

When reading the Bible we need to open our mind and heart in order to get the clear picture of what happened.
Thomas was amazed and when people are amazed what comes out of their mouth is an exclamation like:

"O my God!" (English man)
"Olodumare!" (Yorùbá)
"Ayélála ò!" (Ìlàjẹ Òndó State)
"Osanobua!" (Edo State) and so on.
This exclamation doesn't mean they are seeing deities but a sign of amazement.
That's exactly what happened to Thomas so Jesus who knew that his friend was amazed has no reason to rebuke him.

chimex38:
2) Based on the context of what happened, is the blind man putting his entire Faith in Jesus not synonymous to worship?
Is our salvation not also hinged on Faith and believe in Jesus as well? John 3:16.

Jesus is our Master, Lord and King.
This means no human can please God with any kind of righteous deeds {Isaiah 64:6} unless we follow Jesus' footsteps closely {1Peter 2:21} because he is God's Son who has come to replace Adam {Luke 3:38} through whom we are supposed to relate with God. 1Corinthans 15:45
Adam transmitted sin and death to all his descendants {Romans 5:12} so we are all as good as walking corpses {Romans 3:23} but by the faith and obedience of Jesus {1Corinthans 15:22} whoever imitate this man in thoughts words and actions has qualified to relate with God {Matthew 17:5} as a child of God {John 1:11-12} so believing in Jesus differs from worshiping Jesus {Matthew 15:8-9} it means accepting that no act of righteousness can earn God's approval unless you make Jesus your role model! John 3:16

chimex38:
3)How do one go about his daily life having faith and believe in Jesus and yet reserve worship to God alone?

Jesus is the person who taught us how to worship God acceptably so we must do everything manly possible to do what he says {Matthew 17:5} and when we are gathered together as children of God what should come to our minds is that Jesus is our chairman in such a gathering {Matthew 18:20} so whatever we want to do in that gathering should be centered on how to do the work Jesus assigned us {Matthew 28:18-20} but when we are in need of anything then each person must enter into his inner room to pray to God {Matthew 6:6} so just as Jesus prayed to God we can also approach God in prayer because He Jesus' father and our father Jesus' God and also our God! John 20:17

MaxInDHouse:
When reading the Bible we need to open our mind and heart in order to get the clear picture of what happened.
Thomas was amazed and when people are amazed what comes out of their mouth is an exclamation like:

"O my God!" (English man)
"Olodumare!" (Yorùbá)
"Ayélála ò!" (Ìlàjẹ Òndó State)
"Osanobua!" (Edo State) and so on.
This exclamation doesn't mean they are seeing deities but a sign of amazement.
That's exactly what happened to Thomas so Jesus who knew that his friend was amazed has no reason to rebuke him

Ok.. A sudden exclamation.
But it's debatable..
For me, the appearance of the "my" word twice, sends a stronger signal towards the "deity" to whom Thomas saw rather than just an exclamation.

Jesus is our Master, Lord and King.
This means no human can please God with any kind of righteous deeds {Isaiah 64:6} unless we follow Jesus' footsteps closely {1Peter 2:21} because he is God's Son who has come to replace Adam {Luke 3:38} through whom we are supposed to relate with God. 1Corinthans 15:45
Adam transmitted sin and death to all his descendants {Romans 5:12} so we are all as good as walking corpses {Romans 3:23} but by the faith and obedience of Jesus {1Corinthans 15:22} whoever imitate this man in thoughts words and actions has qualified to relate with God {Matthew 17:5} as a child of God {John 1:11-12} so believing in Jesus differs from worshiping Jesus {Matthew 15:8-9} it means accepting that no act of righteousness can earn God's approval unless you make Jesus your role model! John 3:16

Ok.. Understandable.. I agree

Jesus is the person who taught us how to worship God acceptably so we must do everything manly possible to do what he says {Matthew 17:5} and when we are gathered together as children of God what should come to our minds is that Jesus is our chairman in such a gathering {Matthew 18:20} so whatever we want to do in that gathering should be centered on how to do the work Jesus assigned us {Matthew 28:18-20} but when we are in need of anything then each person must enter into his inner room to pray to God {Matthew 6:6} so just as Jesus prayed to God we can also approach God in prayer because He Jesus' father and our father Jesus' God and also our God! John 20:17

Ok. demarcation noted.
Thanks for sharing.

chimex38:
Ok.. A sudden exclamation.
But it's debatable..
For me, the appearance of the "my" word twice, sends a stronger signal towards the "deity" to whom Thomas saw rather than just an exclamation.
Ok.. Understandable.. I agree
Ok. demarcation noted.
Thanks for sharing.

The word "my" also applies when a Yorùbá man or woman sees something amazing they will say.
"Olúwa Ọlọ́run mi ò"
Exactly the same way Thomas said it:
"my Lord and my God"
So there's nothing special!

MaxInDHouse:
The word "my" also applies when a Yorùbá man or woman sees something amazing they will say.
"Olúwa Ọlọ́run mi ò"
Exactly the same way Thomas said it:
"my Lord and my God"
So there's nothing special!

For broader context
{from John 24-27}
Jesus first appeared to his disciples in Thomas absentia..
Thomas refused to believe that whom they saw was Jesus until he physically pierced Jesus marks on his hands and sides.

On Jesus' second appearance in the same place at probably the same hour of prayer, I think it seems quite natural to admit that Thomas would have accepted and become convinced that this person he had earlier doubted that his fellow disciples saw( probably a ghost or a different spirit) is actually "my Lord" and for a second time with the word "my"-->my God.
(....whom he had actually walked with while alive).

Note: This happened about just 1week apart...not much time frame.
The discussions and arguments and doubts must have been ongoing within the days leading to Jesus' second appearance. Hence I tend to think the expression is more personal and admittance than just exclamation.
#Justmythought

MaxInDHouse:
What was the purpose why Jesus commissioned the preaching and teaching work?

If you don't know then whatever you're preaching is heresy!

I am shocked that you are still defending this evil cult. The early church preached Christ. What are you preaching?

It's OK everyone is entitled to his own personal opinion after reading the Bible!

chimex38:
For broader context
{from John 24-27}
Jesus first appeared to his disciples in Thomas absentia..
Thomas refused to believe that whom they saw was Jesus until he physically pierced Jesus marks on his hands and sides.
On Jesus' second appearance in the same place at probably the same hour of prayer, I think it seems quite natural to admit that Thomas would have accepted and become convinced that this person he had earlier doubted that his fellow disciples saw( probably a ghost or a different spirit) is actually "my Lord" and for a second time with the word "my"-->my God.
(....whom he had actually walked with while alive).
Note: This happened about just 1week apart...not much time frame.
The discussions and arguments and doubts must have been ongoing within the days leading to Jesus' second appearance. Hence I tend to think the expression is more personal and admittance than just exclamation.
#Justmythought

Ken4Christ:
I am shocked that you are still defending this evil cult. The early church preached Christ. What are you preaching?

Failure!
They preached what Jesus taught them:

The Kingdom of God! Matthew 10:7

MaxInDHouse:
Failure!
They preached what Jesus taught them:

The Kingdom of God! Matthew 10:7

What did Jesus teach them?

MaxInDHouse:
The guy who quoted me said Abel Damina doesn't believe there is a place called heaven yet he came to accuse JWs for not agreeing with Abel Damina who believes in heaven that's why i told him to go and convince Damina first before coming to Jehovah's Witnesses!

The guy is a bad listener, Dr Abel Damina will never make a claim that He doesn't believe in Heaven. The guy was hearing Something else.

Nonetheless, that is not the focus here, you just brought that in to create a distraction.

Ken4Christ:
What did Jesus teach them?

LOVE for God and for neighbors {Mark 12:29-31} as they continue preaching and teaching people in their neighborhood they are expanding the LOVE zone so that everywhere they go brothers and sisters in the faith awaits them like one global family {Mark 10:29-30} that's what God promised faithful people in the Old Testament {Isaiah 2:2-4} and Jesus came to fulfill it! Act 1:8

So if you can't boast of fellow worshipers in all the nations around you then your religion is false not of Christ Jesus who promised us that the first sign of our salvation is a global brotherhood then God will bless us with everlasting life! Matthew 19:28-29

All these you don't know only Hellfire you carry on your head as if there is no good thing Christianity ought to achieve other than threatening people with Hellfire!

Jamestaiwo:
The guy is a bad listener, Dr Abel Damina will never make a claim that He doesn't believe in Heaven. The guy was hearing Something else. Nonetheless, that is not the focus here, you just brought that in to create a distraction.

Well i don't know Abel Damina but one thing i can assure you is that there is no single verse in the Bible where Jesus said "i am God" or "worship me"

MaxInDHouse:
Well i don't know Abel Damina but one thing i can assure you is that there is no single verse in the Bible where Jesus said "i am God" or "worship me"

The problem you have is You read the Bible just the way English version put it to you.
You need to sit where they sat to understand what they understood. When Jesus said I and God are One in John 10 vs 30, why did the Jews want to stone?

Your answer to this matter a lot

Jamestaiwo:
The problem you have is You read the Bible just the way English version put it to you.
You need to sit where they sat to understand what they understood. When Jesus said I and God are One in John 10 vs 30, why did the Jews want to stone?
Your answer to this matter a lot

That's not why they wanted to stone him he claimed he existed before Abraham and only spirit beings can say that.

As for being one with God Jesus also said his true disciples will be one with God too.
Does that makes all his disciples Gods?

MaxInDHouse:
That's not why they wanted to stone him he claimed he existed before Abraham and only spirit beings can say that.

As for being one with God Jesus also said his true disciples will be one with God too.
Does that makes all his disciples Gods?

Read the post text very well, it is clearly written there

Jamestaiwo:
Read the post text very well, it is clearly written there

You are chatting with a Witness of Jehovah, wẹ study the Bible word by word not just swallowing what someone say.
So if you can't quote where Jesus said:
"I am God" or "Worship me" then forget it Jesus is one of God's spirit Sons in the heavens, that's what he claimed throughout his life and ministry.
Thanks for your time!

paxonel:
Let's get this straight, are you saying that Jesus was referring to physical mansions?

You know, that's what jw believe too, that it is physical mansion.
And conventional religion share this belief too

No, the context explains itself but you seem to insist, beforehand, that both heaven and hell are in the mind🤔 along with the mansions😅.

Do you care to explain, how you arrived at such a conclusion?

MaxInDHouse:
LOVE for God and for neighbors {Mark 12:29-31} as they continue preaching and teaching people in their neighborhood they are expanding the LOVE zone so that everywhere they go brothers and sisters in the faith awaits them like one global family {Mark 10:29-30} that's what God promised faithful people in the Old Testament {Isaiah 2:2-4} and Jesus came to fulfill it! Act 1:8

So if you can't boast of fellow worshipers in all the nations around you then your religion is false not of Christ Jesus who promised us that the first sign of our salvation is a global brotherhood then God will bless us with everlasting life! Matthew 19:28-29

All these you don't know only Hellfire you carry on your head as if there is no good thing Christianity ought to achieve other than threatening people with Hellfire!

But Jesus also taught that you must be born again. Are you teaching this also? And how can one be born again?

Ken4Christ:
But Jesus also taught that you must be born again. Are you teaching this also? And how can one be born again?

I have told you this thing several times but for the benefit of other followers of this thread i will repeat it again.

Only corulers with Christ are born again and Nicodemus wish to be a coruler with the Christ, that's the wish of all members of the Pharisee and Nicodemus is a prominent member of that group that's why Jesus told him that he can't join that class unless he is born again but as for millions who will live as subjects of God's Kingdom they only need to practice what Jesus taught them that's why Jesus told the first group of disciples that he has other sheep who are not of the first fold {John 10:16} only members of the first fold will rule with Christ. For your information faithful servants of God from Abel to John the baptist aren't qualified to be counted among the born again {Matthew 11:11-12} only God selects these ones among those who had been taught by the Christ. Matthew 20:20-23
Jesus referred to this group as the little flock {Luke 12:32} nobody can decide to become a born again Christian it's not by wish God alone chose them from among faithful disciples of Christ.
That's why Jesus said many are called but few are chosen {Matthew 22:14} they will practice the thing Jesus taught all his disciples but God choose whoever He wants. Matthew 20:23
So there's no criteria for teaching anyone to become born again Christian that's where you people are getting yourselves confused!

MaxInDHouse:
I have told you this thing several times but for the benefit of other followers of this thread i will repeat it again.

Only corulers with Christ are born again and Nicodemus wish to be a coruler with the Christ, that's the wish of all members of the Pharisee and Nicodemus is a prominent member of that group that's why Jesus told him that he can't join that class unless he is born again but as for millions who will live as subjects of God's Kingdom they only need to practice what Jesus taught them that's why Jesus told the first group of disciples that he has other sheep who are not of the first fold {John 10:16} only members of the first fold will rule with Christ. For your information faithful servants of God from Abel to John the baptist aren't qualified to be counted among the born again {Matthew 11:11-12} only God selects these ones among those who had been taught by the Christ. Matthew 20:20-23
Jesus referred to this group as the little flock {Luke 12:32} nobody can decide to become a born again Christian it's not by wish God alone chose them from among faithful disciples of Christ.
That's why Jesus said many are called but few are chosen {Matthew 22:14} they will practice the thing Jesus taught all his disciples but God choose whoever He wants. Matthew 20:23
So there's no criteria for teaching anyone to become born again Christian that's where you people are getting yourselves confused!

Only corulers are born again? Where is it stated in the Bible? Give at least 2 scripture references.

Ken4Christ:
Only corulers are born again? Where is it stated in the Bible? Give at least 2 scripture references.

Jesus only said this once and to only one person who is a member of the Jewish high court a ruler among the Jews, he never repeated it as teaching throughout his ministry.
But you can point to another case where Jesus said the same thing to any of his disciples.

Gabrielshow24:
No, the context explains itself but you seem to insist, beforehand, that both heaven and hell are in the mind🤔 along with the mansions😅.

Do you care to explain, how you arrived at such a conclusion?

OK, let's look at the context how it explained itself.

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: YE BELIEVE IN GOD, BELIEVE ALSO IN ME

The embolded indicates that we believe with our heart which is our mind

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions...

Even though it's possible that what the disciples thought and expected from Jesus were physical mansions, but today we have come to understand that Jesus wasn't referring to physical mansions. Rather he was referring to a state of our minds were we believe in him to have eternal life. (John 3:16)
Not physical mansions!

Another scripture confirm that we don't die in the real sense.
We continue to live on after our death. (1 Corinthians 15:54-55)

So the plan is for us to have eternal life, not to have mansions.

And come to think of it.
From the beginning, God did not breath in msnsions into Adam to live when he created him.
He breathed in eternal life in him.

If we can have life we can always build mansions for ourselves.
So life is more important than mansions

paxonel:
OK, let's look at the context how it explained itself.

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: YE BELIEVE IN GOD, BELIEVE ALSO IN ME

The embolded indicates that we believe with our heart which is our mind

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions...

Even though it's possible that what the disciples thought and expected from Jesus were physical mansions, but today we have come to understand that Jesus wasn't referring to physical mansions. Rather he was referring to a state of our minds were we believe in him to have eternal life. (John 3:16)
Not physical mansions!

Another scripture confirm that we don't die in the real sense.
We continue to live on after our death. (1 Corinthians 15:54-55)

So the plan is for us to have eternal life, not to have mansions.

And come to think of it.
From the beginning, God did not breath in msnsions into Adam to live when he created him.
He breathed in eternal life in him.

If we can have life we can always build mansions for ourselves.
So life is more important than mansions

In what way, did I hint at a physical mansion? Your previous sentiment negated the spiritual existence of heaven and hell. You posit that these are solely in the mind, along with the mansions.

Or are you equating the mind to spiritual conformities? 🤔The bible is very clear on this. There is a place called heaven!

MaxInDHouse:
I have told you this thing several times but for the benefit of other followers of this thread i will repeat it again.

Only corulers with Christ are born again and Nicodemus wish to be a coruler with the Christ, that's the wish of all members of the Pharisee and Nicodemus is a prominent member of that group that's why Jesus told him that he can't join that class unless he is born again but as for millions who will live as subjects of God's Kingdom they only need to practice what Jesus taught them that's why Jesus told the first group of disciples that he has other sheep who are not of the first fold {John 10:16} only members of the first fold will rule with Christ. For your information faithful servants of God from Abel to John the baptist aren't qualified to be counted among the born again {Matthew 11:11-12} only God selects these ones among those who had been taught by the Christ. Matthew 20:20-23
Jesus referred to this group as the little flock {Luke 12:32} nobody can decide to become a born again Christian it's not by wish God alone chose them from among faithful disciples of Christ.
That's why Jesus said many are called but few are chosen {Matthew 22:14} they will practice the thing Jesus taught all his disciples but God choose whoever He wants. Matthew 20:23
So there's no criteria for teaching anyone to become born again Christian that's where you people are getting yourselves confused!

Does this special co-rulers by any chance also refer to the 144000 people in Rev 7 who are different from the greater multitude.? Or are they the 4creatures & 7 spirits constantly mentioned throughout revelation?

Gabrielshow24:
In what way, did I hint at a physical mansion?

In other words, you have agreed that the mansion is spiritual?

Your previous sentiment negated the spiritual existence of heaven and hell.

No!

It only shows that what is spiritual only exist in the mind.

Put it this way, we don't see God because God is a spirit, right?
This tells you that you will never see God walking on the street or flying in the air or somewhere outer space. But God only exist in us.
In our spirit.

An atheist who doesn't believe in the existence of God does not have God in his mind or spirit. So to him God truly do not exist because he will never see God flying in the air

You posit that these are solely in the mind, along with the mansions.

Even if mansions truly exist in the mind or spirit rhelm, it is insignificant to the real world

Or are you equating the mind to spiritual conformities? 🤔

that is exactly the point I'm making

The bible is very clear on this. There is a place called heaven!

Whatever the place is, by virture of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ who has established the new covenant and our Christian faith, it does not have any significance to this earth anymore other than the mind of faith in Christ.

Or do you have any scriptures in the bible to disprove this?
Because i have loads scriptures plus real life experiences and situations to prove my point

It also follows that if you die today as a Christian, you are not going anywhere order than this earth.
This earth is your heaven!

chimex38:
Does this special co-rulers by any chance also refer to the 144000 people in Rev 7 who are different from the greater multitude.? Or are they the 4creatures & 7 spirits constantly mentioned throughout revelation?

According to God's word they supposed to be Jews as in all of them, they are the few to be chosen as Christ's corulers and millions of faithful people earthwide must recognize them to be saved {Zechariah 8:23} Jesus referred to them as his brothers {Matthew 25:40, 45} they are Christ's brothers because they are partakers of the same nature with him just as God declared Jesus as His Son this ones are also declared as God's Sons.
But the Jews failed woefully to meet up with the requirements as majority among the Jews refused to put faith in the Christ so God rejected that nation after picking just a few among them and began choosing from faithful people of the nations who accepted Christ! Matthew 22:2-14
If you carefully cross-check the original names of the twelve tribes of Israel as listed in Exodus 1:2-5 and compare to the names listed in Revelations 7:5-8 you will see clearly that Revelations was using a figurative name for the born again brothers of Christ.
This means the first 500 Jews makes the beginning of the list when the remaining were chosen from other nations.
So their total number according to God's word is 144,000 corulers who will be taken away to heaven as Christ's corulers!

paxonel:
In other words, you have agreed that the mansion is spiritual?
No!

It only shows that what is spiritual only exist in the mind.

Put it this way, we don't see God because God is a spirit, right?
This tells you that you will never see God walking on the street or flying in the air or somewhere outer space. But God only exist in us.
In our spirit.

An atheist who doesn't believe in the existence of God does not have God in his mind or spirit. So to him God truly do not exist because he will never see God flying in the air
Even if mansions truly exist in the mind or spirit rhelm, it is insignificant to the real world
that is exactly the point I'm making

Whatever the place is, by virture of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ who has established the new covenant and our Christian faith, it does not have any significance to this earth anymore other than the mind of faith in Christ.

Or do you have any scriptures in the bible to disprove this?
Because i have loads scriptures plus real life experiences and situations to prove my point

It also follows that if you die today as a Christian, you are not going anywhere order than this earth.
This earth is your heaven!

This earth isn't your heaven. You can make it be like heaven but you will still be gathered unto God in heaven!

Likewise when you die, you are taken elsewhere and not back to the earth🤨.

God also doesn't exist only in our spirits. We use our spirits to interact with him. There's a difference! What is spiritual doesn't exist solely in the mind. It's an hyperspace that only spirits can interact with, with the mind being the seat of consciousness!

Finally, the mind is not the same as the spirit. There are two different things. Your zeal to equate the spirit with the mind is unfounded and borderline reaching! Also, we shall all see God coming from the clouds of heaven this negates your analogies!

Gabrielshow24:
This earth isn't your heaven. You can make it be like heaven but you will still be gathered unto God in heaven!

Likewise when you die, you are taken elsewhere and not back to the earth🤨.

good!
It's easy to say it with the mouth right?
But where are the scriptures to support it?

God also doesn't exist only in our spirits. We use our spirits to interact with him. There's a difference! What is spiritual doesn't exist solely in the mind. It's an hyperspace that only spirits can interact with, with the mind being the seat of consciousness!

The word HYPERSPACE is fictional and not real.

Finally, the mind is not the same as the spirit. There are two different things.

Definitely you are right that they are not the same. But that notwithstanding, your spirit is in your mind and this is how it applies.

You have heard the word FAITH?
What is Faith? Faith is simply your religion.

Your religion is a function of your mind.
So when the bible talks about God's kingdom which is heaven,it simply referred to your Christian religion which is your Faith in Christ that exist in your mind.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Show me anywhere else in the bible that was referred to as God's kingdom or heaven order than your Faith in Christ, you will never see

Your zeal to equate the spirit with the mind is unfounded and borderline reaching!

When you say someone is your spiritual father, for example pastor Enoch Adeboye of rccg, it doesn't mean that Adeboye is a spirit.
It means you share the same mind with Adeboye in religion.

I always discredit this idea among Africans that things do happen mysteriously.
The mentality originated from the fear of traditional juju and fictions.

There is nothing that happens mysteriously or in fiction.
Everything, every events you see around can be well explained.

Also, we shall all see God coming from the clouds of heaven this negates your analogies!

no! Totally wrong

This is fiction now!
If you see human being dey fly for clouds one day you no go run?

You see, that's why i carefully use the word LITERALLY

https://www.nairaland.com/8468151/literally-heaven-only-exist-minds

Please have the literal understanding of the scripture you quoted

paxonel:
good!
It's easy to say it with the mouth right?
But where are the scriptures to support it?
The word HYPERSPACE is fictional and not real.

Definitely you are right that they are not the same. But that notwithstanding, your spirit is in your mind and this is how it applies.

You have heard the word FAITH?
What is Faith? Faith is simply your religion.

Your religion is a function of your mind.
So when the bible talks about God's kingdom which is heaven,it simply referred to your Christian religion which is your Faith in Christ that exist in your mind.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Show me anywhere else in the bible that was referred to as God's kingdom or heaven order than your Faith in Christ, you will never see

When you say someone is your spiritual father, for example pastor Enoch Adeboye of rccg, it doesn't mean that Adeboye is a spirit.
It means you share the same mind with Adeboye in religion.

I always discredit this idea among Africans that things do happen mysteriously.
The mentality originated from the fear of traditional juju and fictions.

There is nothing that happens mysteriously or in fiction.
Everything, every events you see around can be well explained.
no! Totally wrong

This is fiction now!
If you see human being dey fly for clouds one day you no go run?

You see, that's why i carefully use the word LITERALLY

https://www.nairaland.com/8468151/literally-heaven-only-exist-minds

Please have the literal understanding of the scripture you quoted

Nice write-up but the crux of the matter is that you have admitted that the mind is not the spirit everything else is moot! Mind you, I have stated that the mind is the seat of consciousness every other submission of yours is secondary.

The bible affirms the fact of Jesus coming from the clouds not some fictionalized coming from the mind. Heaven, as much as it is a spiritual place, resides with you because God, Christ, is in you! It doesn't negate the fact or dismiss the idea that Heaven exists in some transcendental plane.

While it's literal, it also fails miserably in other areas? Man is a physical being, a physical being that warrants a physical mind👀. This being also has a spirit that helps interact with God, who is to be worshipped in Spirit and in Truth. It's obvious that while faith resides in the mind(physical), it doesn't negate the fact that spirit and mind are two different concepts! Not one and the same but they overlap in agreement!

Your admission already negates your subsequent exemplifications.

Gabrielshow24:
Nice write-up but the crux of the matter is that you have admitted that the mind is not the spirit everything else is moot! Mind you, I have stated that the mind is the seat of consciousness every other submission of yours is secondary.

consciousness is physical does not mean we should ignore the spiritual function of the mind which is to believe in Christ

The bible affirms the fact of Jesus coming from the clouds not some fictionalized coming from the mind

in case you are shy to quote out the scripture for clarity

1 Corinthians 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? AND WITH WHAT BODY DO THEY COME?

First of all, understand that we will come back to this life with a different body immediately after we die.
That is the resurrection.

If you read down the chapter you will get the answer to that question.

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

That is, our body will be changed.

Now, if you relate this understanding to the other part of the scripture which is still saying the same thing

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The scripture sound fictional because Paul had spoken it figuratively.
But the interpretation thereof implies the Clouds as heaven, which is God's kingdom in us in the real sense. (Meaning, we are the heaven or clouds in the real sense)
And this God's Kingdom in us ensures that we will resurrect with a new body after we die

With this understanding, it does not necessarily mean that Jesus is coming from the clouds.
It means, Jesus is in us already (Emmanuel) because we are the heaven on earth.

Heaven, as much as it is a spiritual place, resides with you because God, Christ, is in you!

Absolutely

It doesn't negate the fact or dismiss the idea that Heaven exists in some transcendental plane.

it totally negate and contradicts purpose.
I mean, what has transcendental plane has to do on earth if it is not tangible like the human body?

God created man to live on Earth for a purpose, and that purpose still stand from the beginning which is to replenish this earth

While it's literal, it also fails miserably in other areas? Man is a physical being, a physical being that warrants a physical mind👀. This being also has a spirit that helps interact with God, who is to be worshipped in Spirit and in Truth. It's obvious that while faith resides in the mind(physical), it doesn't negate the fact that spirit and mind are two different concepts! Not one and the same but they overlap in agreement!

Your admission already negates your subsequent exemplifications.

The point is, spirit and mind are two separate entity from the stand point of the physical, how we view it as humans. But that is not the case with God who is a spirit.

With God, both the spirit and the mind are the same.
The mind is what God sees as the soul because it is the mind that believes in Christ for eternal life which is the spirit of God.
Though the body dies off and decompose (corruption) the mind lives forever and is constantly recycled with a change of body without physical consciousness