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Good day, fellas. Let's discuss the Phases of the endtime e.g Rapture(a sudden take up to heaven), Great tribulation, heaven, hell, lake of fire, Millenium reign with Christ etc.

Steep, TenQ, Ken4Christ, you are invited to this discussion.

Antichrist Deception coming first, and many Antichrist are already on the earth deceiving humans with entertainment, tribalism, racism, hero and ancestral worship, AI, immorality, etc, all pointing to the advent of the man of Sin.

Then, Persecution of God's Children (Great Tribulations- 3.5 years)

Wrath of God upon Sinners, Antichrist and remnants

2nd Coming and Rapture of all believers worldwide

1000 Year Reign

White throne Judgement and the opening of the Lake of Fire

obonujoker:
Antichrist Deception coming first, and many Antichrist are already on the earth deceiving humans with entertainment, tribalism, racism, hero and ancestral worship, AI, immorality, etc, all pointing to the advent of the man of Sin.

Then, Persecution of God's Children (Great Tribulations- 3.5 years)

Wrath of God upon Sinners, Antichrist and remnants

2nd Coming and Rapture of all believers worldwide

1000 Year Reign

White throne Judgement and the opening of the Lake of Fire

The Great Tribulation would last for how many years?

Truvelisback:
The Great Tribulation would last for how many years?

3.5 years, but the Antichrist will reign for 7 years

Truvelisback:
The Great Tribulation would last for how many years?

The great tribulation is in two phases.

The first phase is for saints of this church age left behind and it will happen immediately after the rapture of the church. This set of tribulation saints are revealed in Revelation 7:9-17

The second phase are for the Jewish Saints that will witness the reign of the antichrist. Thiset is revealed in Revelation 13.15

I know most readers will be confused here as we have always been made to believe in the three and a half years tribulation period out of the 7-year period the antichrist will reign. This has to do with the second phase of the great tribulation which our Lord Jesus spoke about in Matthew 24.

The first phase wasn't revealed during the earthly ministry of our Lord Jesus because the church age was still a mystery at that time. Even our Lord Jesus as a man didn't know about this.

Truvelisback:
Good day, fellas. Let's discuss the Phases of the endtime e.g Rapture(a sudden take up to heaven), Great tribulation, heaven, hell, lake of fire, Millenium reign with Christ etc.

Some things are certain
1. The Rule of the Antichrist for seven years
2. The first 3.5 years would be bliss for Israel and Christians and a lot of people will see the antichrist as a kind of saviour
3. The beginning of the second 3.5 years: the Antichrist will revoke his apparent support for Israel and Christians most likely because of the resistance by them from recieving the mark of the beast
4. This will lead to Israel and the church being divided by the Antichrist.
5a. The persecution of the Church and Israel will intensify to the peak as many will pay with their lives
5b. The martyrdom of the TWO witnesses
6a. It seems that no Christian will survive this seven years and Israel will also be almost annihilated.
b. Sealing of the 144,000 of the children of Israel
7. The second coming of JESUS Christ and Marriage Supper of the Lamb will happen with the descent of His Saints with the New Jerusalem from heaven.
NOTE:
It is difficult to place the exact time of rapture between these 7 items above. Rapture could be Pre-Tribulation, Mid-Tribulation or even at the tail end of the Tribulation.

The exact timing of the Judgment of Babylon the Great harlot is also difficult to place.

8a. The Antichrist (the Beast) and the False Prophet are arrested and Judged with the Lake of fire.
8b. The inhabitants of the Nations of the Earth who actively wage war on Israel are killed at the battle of Armageddon.
9a. Satan is bound for 1000 years
9b. The 1000 year reign of Christ on earth.
10. The temporary release of satan from the bottom-less pit
11. Satan goes to deceive the whole world again.
12. Resurrection of the Dead and Final Judgment of the people of Earth with anyone whose name is not in the Lambs book of life thrown into the lake of Fire (the Great white throne Judgment)
13. Replacement of the Heavens and the Earth with newly Created heaven and earth.
14. Judgement of Believers for Reward of their faithfulness and their eternal Reward.


Anyone with more time can support each of these with appropriate scriptures.

NOTE:
There is no one on earth who fully understand every event and sequence of the end times.
We all know in part and speak in part.

It is just like the prophecy of the Messiah: it didn't make sense until it was fulfilled.
1Cor 2:8:
"Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory."
So likewise the second coming of Christ.



We are commanded to be sober and vigilant for we do not know when the Son of Man will come

TenQ:
Some things are certain
1. The Rule of the Antichrist for seven years
2. The first 3.5 years would be bliss for Israel and Christians and a lot of people will see the antichrist as a kind of saviour
3. The beginning of the second 3.5 years: the Antichrist will revoke his apparent support for Israel and Christians most likely because of the resistance by them from recieving the mark of the beast
4. This will lead to Israel and the church being divided by the Antichrist.
5a. The persecution of the Church and Israel will intensify to the peak as many will pay with their lives
5b. The martyrdom of the TWO witnesses
6a. It seems that no Christian will survive this seven years and Israel will also be almost annihilated.
b. Sealing of the 144,000 of the children of Israel
7. The second coming of JESUS Christ and Marriage Supper of the Lamb will happen with the descent of His Saints with the New Jerusalem from heaven.
NOTE:
It is difficult to place the exact time of rapture between these 7 items above. Rapture could be Pre-Tribulation, Mid-Tribulation or even at the tail end of the Tribulation.

The exact timing of the Judgment of Babylon the Great harlot is also difficult to place.

8a. The Antichrist (the Beast) and the False Prophet are arrested and Judged with the Lake of fire.
8b. The inhabitants of the Nations of the Earth who actively wage war on Israel are killed at the battle of Armageddon.
9a. Satan is bound for 1000 years
9b. The 1000 year reign of Christ on earth.
10. The temporary release of satan from the bottom-less pit
11. Satan goes to deceive the whole world again.
12. Resurrection of the Dead and Final Judgment of the people of Earth with anyone whose name is not in the Lambs book of life thrown into the lake of Fire (the Great white throne Judgment)
13. Replacement of the Heavens and the Earth with newly Created heaven and earth.
14. Judgement of Believers for Reward of their faithfulness and their eternal Reward.


Anyone with more time can support each of these with appropriate scriptures.

NOTE:
There is no one on earth who fully understand every event and sequence of the end times.
We all know in part and speak in part.

It is just like the prophecy of the Messiah: it didn't make sense until it was fulfilled.
1Cor 2:8:
"Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory."
So likewise the second coming of Christ.



We are commanded to be sober and vigilant for we do not know when the Son of Man will come

Good day friend. I disagree with a point you made concerning persecution of Christians alongside with the Jews. Their persecutions will be separate. I have been trying to get the church understand this truth for some years now but it seems not to be sinking into our spirit because of what we have been taught over the years.

Immediately after the rapture of the church, the saints of the present day church will face severe persecutions. But the persecution will not come from the antichrist for he will not be revealed Immediately.

God's dealing with the Jews will only commence when God is through with the present church age - Romans 11:25-26.

The persecution of Christians is revealed in Revelation, chapter 7:9-16.

That of the Jews is Revelation 13 and there are unknown years in between the two events

I will write on a very detailed book concerning this very soon. May the Lord grant us understanding.

TenQ:
Some things are certain
1. The Rule of the Antichrist for seven years
2. The first 3.5 years would be bliss for Israel and Christians and a lot of people will see the antichrist as a kind of saviour
3. The beginning of the second 3.5 years: the Antichrist will revoke his apparent support for Israel and Christians most likely because of the resistance by them from recieving the mark of the beast
4. This will lead to Israel and the church being divided by the Antichrist.
5a. The persecution of the Church and Israel will intensify to the peak as many will pay with their lives
5b. The martyrdom of the TWO witnesses
6a. It seems that no Christian will survive this seven years and Israel will also be almost annihilated.
b. Sealing of the 144,000 of the children of Israel
7. The second coming of JESUS Christ and Marriage Supper of the Lamb will happen with the descent of His Saints with the New Jerusalem from heaven.
NOTE:
It is difficult to place the exact time of rapture between these 7 items above. Rapture could be Pre-Tribulation, Mid-Tribulation or even at the tail end of the Tribulation.

The exact timing of the Judgment of Babylon the Great harlot is also difficult to place.

8a. The Antichrist (the Beast) and the False Prophet are arrested and Judged with the Lake of fire.
8b. The inhabitants of the Nations of the Earth who actively wage war on Israel are killed at the battle of Armageddon.
9a. Satan is bound for 1000 years
9b. The 1000 year reign of Christ on earth.
10. The temporary release of satan from the bottom-less pit
11. Satan goes to deceive the whole world again.
12. Resurrection of the Dead and Final Judgment of the people of Earth with anyone whose name is not in the Lambs book of life thrown into the lake of Fire (the Great white throne Judgment)
13. Replacement of the Heavens and the Earth with newly Created heaven and earth.
14. Judgement of Believers for Reward of their faithfulness and their eternal Reward.


Anyone with more time can support each of these with appropriate scriptures.

NOTE:
There is no one on earth who fully understand every event and sequence of the end times.
We all know in part and speak in part.

It is just like the prophecy of the Messiah: it didn't make sense until it was fulfilled.
1Cor 2:8:
"Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory."
So likewise the second coming of Christ.



We are commanded to be sober and vigilant for we do not know when the Son of Man will come

Thanks for insightful input.

Ken4Christ:
Good day friend. I disagree with a point you made concerning persecution of Christians alongside with the Jews. Their persecutions will be separate. I have been trying to get the church understand this truth for some years now but it seems not to be sinking into our spirit because of what we have been taught over the years.

Immediately after the rapture of the church, the saints of the present day church will face severe persecutions. But the persecution will not come from the antichrist for he will not be revealed Immediately.

God's dealing with the Jews will only commence when God is through with the present church age - Romans 11:25-26.

The persecution of Christians is revealed in Revelation, chapter 7:9-16.

That of the Jews is Revelation 13 and there are unknown years in between the two events

I will write on a very detailed book concerning this very soon. May the Lord grant us understanding.

Amen.

Truvelisback:
Thanks for insightful input.

You are welcome sir!

Ken4Christ:
Good day friend. I disagree with a point you made concerning persecution of Christians alongside with the Jews. Their persecutions will be separate. I have been trying to get the church understand this truth for some years now but it seems not to be sinking into our spirit because of what we have been taught over the years.

Immediately after the rapture of the church, the saints of the present day church will face severe persecutions. But the persecution will not come from the antichrist for he will not be revealed Immediately.

God's dealing with the Jews will only commence when God is through with the present church age - Romans 11:25-26.

The persecution of Christians is revealed in Revelation, chapter 7:9-16.

That of the Jews is Revelation 13 and there are unknown years in between the two events

I will write on a very detailed book concerning this very soon. May the Lord grant us understanding.

The church is separate from Israel.

But it seems they will share the same fate in parallel to each other.

I am still learning: I don't think I have all the answers!
I say only what I know!

TenQ:
The church is separate from Israel.

But it seems they will share the same fate in parallel to each other.

I am still learning: I don't think I have all the answers!
I say only what I know!

I understand. No one knows it all. There are so many things I also don't know.

First, the gospel first came to the Jews but they rejected it. On account of this, salvation came to the Gentiles. Thus, the scripture says:

John 1:11-13
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

There were of course many Jews who believed at first but the numbers gradually reduced until it was difficult to see Jews who are saved.

Apostle Paul gave a startling revelation about the Jews and God's plan for salvation for them. He wrote:

Romans 11:25-26
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Verses says that the Jews are currently blind but not forever. This is why he called it, 'blindness in part'. He now added that the blindness will remain until the fullness of Gentiles ordained to be saved come into the kingdom.

And after the rapture, the present day church which is also known as the church of the Gentiles will still be saved. But not all of them that are left behind. Only those who repent of their sins and hold on to the confession of their faith in Christ. But, they will all be persecuted to death. And they will be so many that the scriptures said they can't be numbered:

Revelation 7:9-14
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, WHICH NO MAN COULD NUMBER, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands............

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which CAME OUT OF GREAT TRIBULATION, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb

Notice that there was no mention of the Jewish nation here. The blindness is still on even after all the Gentiles ordained for salvation have been saved.

At what point will the blindness taken away?

Remember that the present day Jew are still waiting for a Messiah as they rejected Christ.

That Messiah will be revealed almost at the same time the antichrist will begin his reign. The Messiah is the second beast in Revelation 13. He is known as the false prophet. He has two horns symbolising Israel and Judah. And he looks like a Lamb; imitating Jesus, the true lamb of God- Revelation 13:11.

The blindness will be taken away after he erects the image of the first beast who is the antichrist. It is at this point the Jews will realised they have been deceived. Every other nation present on earth will worship the image except the Jews. This is when their persecution will begin.

But 144,000 Jews sealed in Revelation 7 will not affected. They will be raptured at the end of the 7-year tribulation period.

And all Israel present at this time will be saved. This is what Paul said:

Romans 1126 And so all Israel shall be saved.....

Please, feel free to ask any question or make your objections. Eschatology is one area God has blessed me with deep insight.

Ken4Christ:
I understand. No one knows it all. There are so many things I also don't know.

First, the gospel first came to the Jews but they rejected it. On account of this, salvation came to the Gentiles. Thus, the scripture says:

John 1:11-13
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

There were of course many Jews who believed at first but the numbers gradually reduced until it was difficult to see Jews who are saved.

Apostle Paul gave a startling revelation about the Jews and God's plan for salvation for them. He wrote:

Romans 11:25-26
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Verses says that the Jews are currently blind but not forever. This is why he called it, 'blindness in part'. He now added that the blindness will remain until the fullness of Gentiles ordained to be saved come into the kingdom.

And after the rapture, the present day church which is also known as the church of the Gentiles will still be saved. But not all of them that are left behind. Only those who repent of their sins and hold on to the confession of their faith in Christ. But, they will all be persecuted to death. And they will be so many that the scriptures said they can't be numbered:

Revelation 7:9-14
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, WHICH NO MAN COULD NUMBER, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands............

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which CAME OUT OF GREAT TRIBULATION, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb

Notice that there was no mention of the Jewish nation here. The blindness is still on even after all the Gentiles ordained for salvation have been saved.

At what point will the blindness taken away?

Remember that the present day Jew are still waiting for a Messiah as they rejected Christ.

That Messiah will be revealed almost at the same time the antichrist will begin his reign. The Messiah is the second beast in Revelation 13. He is known as the false prophet. He has two horns symbolising Israel and Judah. And he looks like a Lamb; imitating Jesus, the true lamb of God- Revelation 13:11.

The blindness will be taken away after he erects the image of the first beast who is the antichrist. It is at this point the Jews will realised they have been deceived. Every other nation present on earth will worship the image except the Jews. This is when their persecution will begin.

But 144,000 Jews sealed in Revelation 7 will not affected. They will be raptured at the end of the 7-year tribulation period.

And all Israel present at this time will be saved. This is what Paul said:

Romans 1126 And so all Israel shall be saved.....

Please, feel free to ask any question or make your objections. Eschatology is one area God has blessed me with deep insight.

Let me give you a theme that perhaps might help you understand some nuances. One, Heaven the dwelling place of God is a spiritual geiod outside of the fabric of the universe. The earth and all the respective "universal"—termed the universe by man—layers studied presently by science are under the smallest star—I surmise it as a star or if you want you can envisage it as a gem—embedded upon this fabric! That should give you a size ratio.

Now, in the kingdom, there are specific angels that are known to follow Jesus, God, up and down—They are also known as Angels of curiosity.
The supposed 144,000 comes from the spiritual Israel from which the gentiles have been grafted in. These ones will serve as similitude of the angels of curiosity, that's why they are exemplified as moving with Jesus etc.—They have a specific use case hence the peculiar emphasis.

The rest of those, that pay with their lives but do not meet such criteria are given their places. The two beasts are two concurrent powers or personalities that reinforce one another. The anti-Christ is a prepared spirit, contrived by trickery to fulfill the "is, was and still to come phrase"!he is Satan's version of achieving a similar hierarchical pattern with God. He is to Satan what Jesus is to God👀, this is enough for you get an hint of some technicalities obfuscated.

The antichrist by the way will be the most apparent policy loving guy. The hearts of all will be one towards him, unfortunately for them it will be shortlived 👀!
Satan by the way will spiritually serve punishment while this "being" reigns on Earth. Those that are saved from the first resurrection get to reign with God for the same equivalent number of years in heaven. It's a superposition of heavenly and earthly perspective! Once his time is done, he leads his hoard for a final battle and gets thrown along with the rest👀 into the lake of fire.
The two witnesses are physical manifestations of a set of beings, known to be at the right and left hand side of God, hence their depiction that way. If the spirit goes deep with you, you will know who they are. They are not Moses nor Elijah so eliminate that thought👀.

Rapture, the taking of God's sheep or the transfiguration of their flesh into spirits, occurs before the white throne judgement. Also, you might want to ask the Lord to redefine for you the interpretation of time, times and half a time. Your assumption of 3.5 is logical but it's not the actual case.

The 1000 year hints at Earth's longevity, contrary to JW. After these events, the great white judgement occurs with all receiving their due. The fabric of this present universe is rolled away and a new one is replaced with new Jerusalem descending from the Father!

It's a way for the bible to give a quick overview without getting into specific physical historical details👀. If you want you can ask the Lord to reveal to you, his race and place👀 but at this point we should all be grateful that we didn't see his day🤤.

Before these will be the emergence of Jesus' pygmies then the prophets of fire👀, a lot will be swept away by these. Fun stuff, exhilarating stuff. I do wish all those in that era, good luck🔥. In that era, the difference will be so clear that these present set of pastorpreneurs will be made to have done nothing! Savour the moment, you don't know what you are enjoying.

Gabrielshow24:
Let me give you a theme that perhaps might help you understand some nuances. One, Heaven the dwelling place of God is a spiritual geiod outside of the fabric of the universe. The earth and all the respective "universal"—termed the universe by man—layers studied presently by science are under the smallest star—I surmise it as a star or if you want you can envisage it as a gem—embedded upon this fabric! That should give you a size ratio.

Now, in the kingdom, there are specific angels that are known to follow Jesus, God, up and down—They are also known as Angels of curiosity.
The supposed 144,000 comes from the spiritual Israel from which the gentiles have been grafted in. These ones will serve as similitude of the angels of curiosity, that's why they are exemplified as moving with Jesus etc.—They have a specific use case hence the peculiar emphasis.

The rest of those, that pay with their lives but do not meet such criteria are given their places. The two beasts are two concurrent powers or personalities that reinforce one another. The anti-Christ is a prepared spirit, contrived by trickery to fulfill the "is, was and still to come phrase"!he is Satan's version of achieving a similar hierarchical pattern with God. He is to Satan what Jesus is to God👀, this is enough for you get an hint of some technicalities obfuscated.

The antichrist by the way will be the most apparent policy loving guy. The hearts of all will be one towards him, unfortunately for them it will be shortlived 👀!
Satan by the way will spiritually serve punishment while this "being" reigns on Earth. Those that are saved from the first resurrection get to reign with God for the same equivalent number of years in heaven. It's a superposition of heavenly and earthly perspective! Once his time is done, he leads his hoard for a final battle and gets thrown along with the rest👀 into the lake of fire.
The two witnesses are physical manifestations of a set of beings, known to be at the right and left hand side of God, hence their depiction that way. If the spirit goes deep with you, you will know who they are. They are not Moses nor Elijah so eliminate that thought👀.

Rapture, the taking of God's sheep or the transfiguration of their flesh into spirits, occurs before the white throne judgement. Also, you might want to ask the Lord to redefine for you the interpretation of time, times and half a time. Your assumption of 3.5 is logical but it's not the actual case.

The 1000 year hints at Earth's longevity, contrary to JW. After these events, the great white judgement occurs with all receiving their due. The fabric of this present universe is rolled away and a new one is replaced with new Jerusalem descending from the Father!

It's a way for the bible to give a quick overview without getting into specific physical historical details👀. If you want you can ask the Lord to reveal to you, his race and place👀 but at this point we should all be grateful that we didn't see his day🤤.

Before these will be the emergence of Jesus' pygmies then the prophets of fire👀, a lot will be swept away by these. Fun stuff, exhilarating stuff. I do wish all those in that era, good luck🔥. In that era, the difference will be so clear that these present set of pastorpreneurs will be made to have done nothing! Savour the moment, you don't know what you are enjoying.

Quote the source of your information. Anyone can wake up and say anything. So, back it up with the Holy Scripture..

Ken4Christ:
Quote the source of your information. Anyone can wake up and say anything. So, back it up with the Holy Scripture..

It's the self same Revelation you allude to, It's a simple exemplification on my part to give you subtle hints.

As it pertains to the things of God, no matter the grey matter you possess, it's very difficult to get to the plain truth of the matter. You must be told, God must tell you!

My sentiments was to make you see this fact. Subtle clues should have suggested this. The traditional 3.5years🤔...hmm, let's just say it's traditional👀!

As regards, the angels of curiosity. You don't know of such until such is revealed to you. My aim was to emphasize that your interpretation of separating some "144,000" was quite misplaced, spiritually! It's a logical reconciliation from your part but it lacks spiritual substance. The rest are left for you to reconcile the in-betweens. Take this up as an assignment with the Holy Spirit 👀.

If you had doubt as regards the spiritual geoidal existential plane of heaven, well that's beyond you. You will indeed need someone from the Heaven, presumably God, to take you out of the fabric of the universe 👀. Until then take it also as an assignment!

Gabrielshow24:
It's the self same Revelation you allude to, It's a simple exemplification on my part to give you subtle hints.

As it pertains to the things of God, no matter the grey matter you possess, it's very difficult to get to the plain truth of the matter. You must be told, God must tell you!

My sentiments was to make you see this fact. Subtle clues should have suggested this. The traditional 3.5years🤔...hmm, let's just say it's traditional👀!

As regards, the angels of curiosity. You don't know of such until such is revealed to you. My aim was to emphasize that your interpretation of separating some "144,000" was quite misplaced, spiritually! It's a logical reconciliation from your part but it lacks spiritual substance. The rest are left for you to reconcile the in-betweens. Take this up as an assignment with the Holy Spirit 👀.

If you had doubt as regards the spiritual geoidal existential plane of heaven, well that's beyond you. You will indeed need someone from the Heaven, presumably God, to take you out of the fabric of the universe 👀. Until then take it also as an assignment!

Please, which school did you attend? You are still making assertions without a single scripture verse to back up your claim. You have nothing to say. Just try and learn.

Ken4Christ:
Please, which school did you attend? You are still making assertions without a single scripture verse to back up your claim. You have nothing to say. Just try and learn.

Ken, The context is within Revelation, everything I posited are commonalities that can be found there. From the gathering of 144,000 etc. —What's there not to understand?

We all have the background of such! And lest I forget the thread's title is "phases of the End time". This enough should warrant the context will be solely on verses that involve such. From Matthew to Thessalonians and Revelation.

But I didn't deviate from this—Revelation —I constrained myself to stories in revelation! Nothing more, nothing less!

What aspect of my submission do you need scriptural reference for?
Be specific, 🤔if it's about using the parallel of the angels of curiosity to explain the use case of the 144,000 then I am sorry that's something God must tell you himself. Along with the spiritual existential geoid called heaven. The rest can be inferred from the stories.

Gabrielshow24:
Ken, The context is within Revelation, everything I posited are commonalities that can be found there. From the gathering of 144,000 etc. —What's there not to understand?

We all have the background of such! And lest I forget the thread's title is "phases of the End time". This enough should warrant the context will be solely on verses that involve such. From Matthew to Thessalonians and Revelation.

But I didn't deviate from this—Revelation —I constrained myself to stories in revelation! Nothing more, nothing less!

What aspect of my submission do you need scriptural reference for?
Be specific, 🤔if it's about using the parallel of the angels of curiosity to explain the use case of the 144,000 then I am sorry that's something God must tell you himself. Along with the spiritual existential geoid called heaven. The rest can be inferred from the stories.

Please, engage yourself with other activities. You are not a Bible scholar and you cannot be. Just mentioned 144,000 means nothing. Which chapter and verse supports your opinion about the 144,000 Jews sealed. You are not permitted add or subtract from what is contained in the book otherwise, the plagues contained in it will be your portion. In addition, if you subtract from it, your name will be subtracted from the book of life.

Ken4Christ:
Please, engage yourself with other activities. You are not a Bible scholar and you cannot be. Just mentioned 144,000 means nothing. Which chapter and verse supports your opinion about the 144,000 Jews sealed. You are not permitted add or subtract from what is contained in the book otherwise, the plagues contained in it will be your portion. In addition, if you subtract from it, your name will be subtracted from the book of life.

😂Since you have decided to be petty. I will indulge you by providing verses🤨. As this will end redundancy on your part.

I am a theologian, a spirit taught one! That's why we are different. You claim the Jews and christians will have different harvests.😂

While I gave a simple spiritual surmise. I suppose you should have understood that such are revealed by spiritual discernment 1cor2:14. Probably, I had too much intellectual expectation of you. The sealing of 144,000, Rev7:4-8, Rev14:1-5; 1000year reign, Rev20:3-5. Any way, it's expedient that your reaction is like this. Ask the Lord to show you how he intends to fulfill such and what they really are.

Like said, I provided a little spiritual context not an addition nor subtraction. I didn't accuse you of addition but yet in your wise eyes you accused me of such! See it as a commentary, not an absolute statement. As you grow in Christ, you will test its validity on your own.

Thanks🙃

Gabrielshow24:
😂Since you have decided to be petty. I will indulge you by providing verses🤨. As this will end redundancy on your part.

I am a theologian, a spirit taught one! That's why we are different. You claim the Jews and christians will have different harvests.😂

While I gave a simple spiritual surmise. I suppose you should have understood that such are revealed by spiritual discernment 1cor2:14. Probably, I had too much intellectual expectation of you. The sealing of 144,000, Rev7:4-8, Rev14:1-5; 1000year reign, Rev20:3-5. Any way, it's expedient that your reaction is like this. Ask the Lord to show you how he intends to fulfill such and what they really are.

Like said, I provided a little spiritual context not an addition nor subtraction. I didn't accuse you of addition but yet in your wise eyes you accused me of such! See it as a commentary, not an absolute statement. As you grow in Christ, you will test its validity on your own.

Thanks🙃

You still haven't made any point. OK. Let me ask you this question.

Who are the 144,000 sealed in Revelation 7. Back up your explanation.

Ken4Christ:
You still haven't made any point. OK. Let me ask you this question.

Who are the 144,000 sealed in Revelation 7. Back up your explanation.

What aspect of this did you fail to grasp?

I stated they were spiritual Israelite(body of Christ), which the gentiles are part of, and have been grafted in.
Not a separate instance of harvest that requires differing categorization.

The 144,000 were mentioned specifically for their purpose Rev14:4, this is evident because of Rev7:9 which shows an innumerable host from mankind and this clause , "and no man could learn that song", in Rev14:3.

It's just to buttress specificity! Not distinction such as christian and Jews having different harvests. After all, all are one in Christ not separate! Be it Jew or Gentile.

Gabrielshow24:
What aspect of this did you fail to grasp?

I stated they were spiritual Israelite(body of Christ), which the gentiles are part of, and have been grafted in.
Not a separate instance of harvest that requires differing categorization.

The 144,000 were mentioned specifically for their purpose Rev14:4, this is evident because of Rev7:9 which shows an innumerable host from mankind and this clause , "and no man could learn that song", in Rev14:3.

It's just to buttress specificity! Not distinction such as christian and Jews having different harvests. After all, all are one in Christ not separate! Be it Jew or Gentile.

How do you know that they are spiritual Israelites? Please, back it up with Scripture.

Ken4Christ:
How do you know that they are spiritual Israelites? Please, back it up with Scripture.

This coming from a pastor is really worrying. The body of Christ includes all. All gentile nations are grafted in, there is no separation in the body of Christ! Gal3:7,Gal3:26-29,Gal4:5-7, Gal 6:16, 1Peter2:9, Roman10:12, Ephesians 2:12-13, Romans11:23.

Reading the above with respect to Rev7:9, Rev14 and the whole of scripture. It will be absurd for God to harvest gentiles and Jews separately.

For the record, "Spiritual Israel" is a term, people of non-abrahamic lineage tend to use to symbolize their grafting into God.

Truvelisback:
➜Good day, fellas. Let's discuss the Phases of the endtime e.g Rapture(a sudden take up to heaven), Great tribulation, heaven, hell, lake of fire, Millenium reign with Christ etc.

Go back through and read that book again, this time without the many delusions that your religious scammers pumped into your head probably since birth.

Gabrielshow24:
This coming from a pastor is really worrying. The body of Christ includes all. All gentile nations are grafted in, there is no separation in the body of Christ! Gal3:7,Gal3:26-29,Gal4:5-7, Gal 6:16, 1Peter2:9, Roman10:12, Ephesians 2:12-13, Romans11:23.

Reading the above with respect to Rev7:9, Rev14 and the whole of scripture. It will be absurd for God to harvest gentiles and Jews separately.

For the record, "Spiritual Israel" is a term, people of non-abrahamic lineage tend to use to symbolize their grafting into God.

It's true that God doesn’t differentiate between the Jews and the Gentiles anymore with reference to our sonship status and rights in Christ. But do you know that the present Israel as a physical nation is not yet saved? Your answer to this will determine my next point.

Ken4Christ:
It's true that God doesn’t differentiate between the Jews and the Gentiles anymore with reference to our sonship status and rights in Christ. But do you know that the present Israel as a physical nation is not yet saved? Your answer to this will determine my next point.

I think Romans11:21-23 answers this. If they believe they will be grafted in! It's as simple as that.

Gabrielshow24:
I think Romans11:21-23 answers this. If they believe they will be grafted in! It's as simple as that.

So, you agree they are not yet saved. Their salvation is based on, 'if they believe..' According to your earlier post, you said there is no separate rapture for the Jews. But why are the Jews and Gentiles not saved at the same time?

Ken4Christ:
So, you agree they are not yet saved. Their salvation is based on, 'if they believe..' According to your earlier post, you said there is no separate rapture for the Jews. But why are the Jews and Gentiles not saved at the same time?

What made you suggest such? Separate harvest doesn't happen because of Jews and Gentiles—It's one. Or do you perhaps lean into the physical salvation of Israel? Then I do not know that. I only exemplified the book of revelation.

Ken4Christ:
Good day friend. I disagree with a point you made concerning persecution of Christians alongside with the Jews. Their persecutions will be separate. I have been trying to get the church understand this truth for some years now but it seems not to be sinking into our spirit because of what we have been taught over the years.

Immediately after the rapture of the church, the saints of the present day church will face severe persecutions. But the persecution will not come from the antichrist for he will not be revealed Immediately.

God's dealing with the Jews will only commence when God is through with the present church age - Romans 11:25-26.

The persecution of Christians is revealed in Revelation, chapter 7:9-16.

That of the Jews is Revelation 13 and there are unknown years in between the two events

I will write on a very detailed book concerning this very soon. May the Lord grant us understanding.

Have the persecution of Christians not already take place? (This is where you ou are supposed to remember LoReed, Workch, HardMirror, and all atheists and their crazy campaigns against Christians and now you can see that they are quiet and have no power)

Then look at all the nonsense that Isreal is doing today, who is not condemning them today?

Ken4Christ:
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Verses says that the Jews are currently blind but not forever. This is why he called it, 'blindness in part'. He now added that the blindness will remain until the fullness of Gentiles ordained to be saved come into the kingdom.

And after the rapture, the present day church which is...


At what point will the blindness taken away?

Remember that the present day Jew are still waiting for a Messiah as they rejected Christ.

That Messiah will be revealed almost at the same time the antichrist will begin his reign. The Messiah is the second beast in Revelation 13. He is known as the false prophet. He has two horns symbolising Israel and Judah. And he looks like a Lamb; imitating Jesus, the true lamb of God- Revelation 13:11.

The blindness will be taken away after he erects the image of the first beast who is the antichrist. It is at this point the Jews will realised they have been deceived. Every other nation present on earth will worship the image except the Jews. This is when their persecution will begin...

Is this not contradictory?

The Messiah is against ungodliness yet you say that the Messiah is the beast?

And secondly, so after Christ there would still be another Messiah?

Clearly, it does not key

Dtruthspeaker:
Is this not contradictory?

The Messiah is against ungodliness yet you say that the Messiah is the beast?

And secondly, so after Christ there would still be another Messiah?

Clearly, it does not key

He will be a false Messiah. The Jews rejected Jesus Christ. So, they are still expecting a Messiah. They will initially accept him as their long awaited Messiah but later reject him after he set up an image of the antichrist. This is why he is called a false prophet who looks like a lamb (imitating Jesus; the true lamb of God)