₦airaland Forum

FreeIgboho:
Wow!! You were once AntiChristianity then you had an encounter with God? There must be a serious story there. Care to regale us?

Well, freewill is not coherent yet everything is based on it, all the way back to Adam eating the apple when Adam neither chose nor programmed his brain that made the choice - based mostly on inner permutations that Adam was mostly unaware of!

No need to bore you with details. I am here for Christ now, that's all that matters! I have done the Lord's bidding on my former allies😅 now turned frenemies👀.

FreeIgboho:
Wow!! You were once AntiChristianity then you had an encounter with God? There must be a serious story there. Care to regale us?

Well, freewill is not coherent either yet everything is based on it, all the way back to Adam eating the apple when Adam neither chose nor programmed his brain that made the choice - based mostly on inner permutations that Adam was mostly unaware of!

Have you ever considered that the story of the Garden of Eden is not a story about an event on Earth.

Gabrielshow24:
No need to bore you with details. I am here for Christ now, that's all that matters! I have done the Lord's bidding on my former allies😅 now turned frenemies👀.

I always want to hear a juicy testimony. And see how you're teasing us with comments about frenemies and former allies!😆

DeepSight:
Have you ever considered that the story of the Garden of Eden is not a story about an event on Earth.

Then where was it?

FreeIgboho:
Then where was it?

Well let me throw you a spin on it. In doing this, I am throwing you a caveat. The caveat is this: remember that I do not believe in the stories of the Bible. Therefore do not for one second come back to deploy what I present in any future discussion as "evidence" of my beliefs. I state this categorically because I know the absurdities and somersaults you and your unhinged comrade in arms are capable of. So having said that, here goes:

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The Garden was a place where the Lord was. Thus the Tree of Life was there. It was within the primordial worlds and this not of this Earth. The man and woman described there are primordial spiritual man and woman. The spirits of mankind in their spiritual home. The garden was thus the original pure and innocent spiritual dwelling of man. This again is why the Tree of Life was there.

Because this was a realm of purity, there was no evil there. That is why the Lord instructed the spirit of man not to touch the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. For touching such would unveil evil, corrupt the pure realm and deprive it of it's essential nature.

The serpent represents worldly knowledge and the temptation that comes with it. And once man has eaten of that fruit, he became conscious of worldly things - the knowledge of good and evil. A few things naturally result:

1. The fall: The spirit naturally falls from the pure realm it inhabited - downward to the world of matter - the material realm which is this earth.

2. In coming to the material realm, they necessarily took on material bodies and these are the "clothes of animal skin" which it is said the Lord made for them.

3. Death: The material realm being a finite temporal realm, man becomes subject to death ("you shall certainly die" )

4. Eternal life is denied man as he has left that pure spiritual realm which is his home ("a flaming sword guards the way back to the Garden" )

Important in all of this is the feeling of unclothedness described in the story. When a hitherto pure spirit descends into matter it will feel it's unclothedness. That's why it requires a body. The cloth of animal skin.

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What do you make of this?

FreeIgboho:
.

My good brother I don't think this is the best way to go about this. We humans are given a very limited brain and also our senses perceive a tiny fraction of what is around us. There are things simply beyond our comprehension but which we know are true. Example, God listens to billions of prayers at once; another, God is localized in heaven yet same God is everywhere. You can't prove any of these with mathematics yet we know they are true.
Trinity (fullness of God in Jesus) is one such. It is a MYSTERY! It is unexplainable FROM HUMAM PERSPECTIVE, yet we KNOW it is true!
(DeepSight, sonmvayina, CanadaOrBust, what u say about this?)

isaiah 44 5-8
5. This one shall say, "I am the Lord's," and this one shall call himself by the name of Jacob, and this one shall write [with] his hand, "To the Lord," and adopt the name Israel.
6. So said the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer the Lord of Hosts, "I am first and I am last, and besides Me there is no god.
7. And who will call [that he is] like Me and will tell it and arrange it for Me, since My placing the ancient people, and the signs and those that will come, let them tell for themselves.
8. Fear not and be not dismayed; did I not let you hear it from then, and I told [it] and you are My witnesses; is there a god besides Me? And there is no rock I did not know.

so between you and the creator who is lying? be truthful for ones

DeepSight:
Well let me throw you a spin on it. In doing this, I am throwing you a caveat. The caveat is this: remember that I do not believe in the stories of the Bible. Therefore do not for one second come back to deploy what I present in any future discussion as "evidence" of my beliefs. I state this categorically because I know the absurdities and somersaults you and your unhinged comrade in arms are capable of. So having said that, here goes:

----------

The Garden was a place where the Lord was. Thus the Tree of Life was there. It was within the primordial worlds and this not of this Earth. The man and woman described there are primordial spiritual man and woman. The spirits of mankind in their spiritual home. The garden was thus the original pure and innocent spiritual dwelling of man. This again is why the Tree of Life was there.

Because this was a realm of purity, there was no evil there. That is why the Lord instructed the spirit of man not to touch the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. For touching such would unveil evil, corrupt the pure realm and deprive it of it's essential nature.

The serpent represents worldly knowledge and the temptation that comes with it. And once man has eaten of that fruit, he became conscious of worldly things - the knowledge of good and evil. A few things naturally result:

1. The fall: The spirit naturally falls from the pure realm it inhabited - downward to the world of matter - the material realm which is this earth.

2. In coming to the material realm, they necessarily took on material bodies and these are the "clothes of animal skin" which it is said the Lord made for them.

3. Death: The material realm being a finite temporal realm, man becomes subject to death ("you shall certainly die" )

4. Eternal life is denied man as he has left that pure spiritual realm which is his home ("a flaming sword guards the way back to the Garden" )

Important in all of this is the feeling of unclothedness described in the story. When a hitherto pure spirit descends into matter it will feel it's unclothedness. That's why it requires a body. The cloth of animal skin.

------------

What do you make of this?

Not bad, but why didn't they eat the tree if life and live forever - they were not barred from eating it.
Also, how come they didn't have eternal life in the spirit realm?
Also, Eve ate the fruit first, nothing happened to her. Also, unclothedness refers to genitalía in the bible. Also, how would they have procreated?
Also, the serpent was physically punished to crawl on it's stomach. How do you punish worldly knowledge to crawl on it's stomach?!

FreeIgboho:
Not bad, but why didn't they eat the tree if life and live forever - they were not barred from eating it.
Also, how come they didn't have eternal life in the spirit realm?
Also, Eve ate the fruit first, nothing happened to her. Also, unclothedness refers to genitalía in the bible. Also, how would they have procreated?
Also, the serpent was physically punished to crawl on it's stomach. How do you punish worldly knowledge to crawl on it's stomach?!

I dont have answers to fit - and please recall I said it was a spin. In short, a thought experiment of sorts.
But in this spin of course they had eternal life in the spirit realm, that state being natural to that realm.

FreeIgboho:
Not bad, but why didn't they eat the tree if life and live forever - they were not barred from eating it.
Also, how come they didn't have eternal life in the spirit realm?
Also, Eve ate the fruit first, nothing happened to her. Also, unclothedness refers to genitalía in the bible. Also, how would they have procreated?
Also, the serpent was physically punished to crawl on it's stomach. How do you punish worldly knowledge to crawl on it's stomach?!

That's the most logical thing he has said, still it falls short on several fronts some of which you have pointed out. It's really fun. I like people like this.

sonmvayina:
isaiah 44 5-8
5. This one shall say, "I am the Lord's," and this one shall call himself by the name of Jacob, and this one shall write [with] his hand, "To the Lord," and adopt the name Israel.
6. So said the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer the Lord of Hosts, "I am first and I am last, and besides Me there is no god.
7. And who will call [that he is] like Me and will tell it and arrange it for Me, since My placing the ancient people, and the signs and those that will come, let them tell for themselves.
8. Fear not and be not dismayed; did I not let you hear it from then, and I told [it] and you are My witnesses; is there a god besides Me? And there is no rock I did not know.

so between you and the creator who is lying? be truthful for ones

You don't understand. That was Jesus talking! Same old I AM! See below

DeepSight:
I dont have answers to fit - and please recall I said it was a spin. In short, a thought experiment of sorts.
But in this spin of course they had eternal life in the spirit realm, that state being natural to that realm.

It's an entertaining spin but it doesn't jive with the Bible story. They never had eternal life and they were not in the spiritual realm. This verse implies that.

Genesis 3:22
New International Version
And the LORD God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”

FreeIgboho:
It's an entertaining spin but it doesn't jive with the Bible story. They never had eternal life and they were not in the spiritual realm. This verse implies that.

Genesis 3:22
New International Version
And the LORD God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”

What do you think is meant by "has now become like one of us?" One of who?

Secondly there is a contradiction in your surmise. If man did not have eternal life, then how come death was served as a punishment? That would not make sense if he was already bound to death.

DeepSight:
What do you think is meant by "has now become like one of us?" One of who?

Secondly there is a contradiction in your surmise. If man did not have eternal life, then how come death was served as a punishment? That would not make sense if he was already bound to death.

Has become like one of those in heaven.
The punishment was not death. The punishment was TIME of death: "On that day you would die".
They had extremely long lives before that.

FreeIgboho:
Has become like one of those in heaven.
The punishment was not death. The punishment was TIME of death: "On that day you would die".
They had extremely long lives before that.

This looks like an escapist answer.
1. "Like those in heaven?" How? Are you suggesting that heavenly beings such as angels knew evil, and only man did not know it?
2. The bible records the earliest men as still having extremely long lives.

DeepSight:
This looks like an escapist answer.
1. "Like those in heaven?" How? Are you suggesting that heavenly beings such as angels knew evil, and only man did not know it?
2. The bible records the earliest men as still having extremely long lives.

1. Of course. Like the snake, they knew good from evil. Man was incapable of sin, not because he never did bad, but because, like a baby, he had no notion of good or bad
2. We're talking 100's of thousands of years long

FreeIgboho:
1. Of course. Like the snake, they knew good from evil. Man was incapable of sin, not because he never did bad, but because, like a baby, he had no notion of good or bad

How then did he disobey God and was that not called sin. In fact it was called original sin.

2. We're talking 100's of thousands of years long

Where did you get this from? How do you know this? Or you just like making things up? ? ? ? ?

DeepSight:
How then did he disobey God and was that not called sin. In fact it was called original sin.



Where did you get this from? How do you know this? Or you just like making things up? ? ? ? ?

1. That's the ONLY sin he was capable of because he was told specifically SAME DAY he did it he'd die (better question is, how would he know what was death)

2. The Bible says a thousand years is a day to God. They died same day they sinned

FreeIgboho:
1. That's the ONLY sin he was capable of because he was told specifically SAME DAY he did it he'd die (better question is, how would he know what was death)

Again you just enjoy making things up. First you said he was incapable of sin. When his sin is pointed out to you, you then say ah well, thats the only sin he was capable of. Can you not see the shifting of the goal post you are engaging in here? The random speculation?

For one who claims we know nothing, you sure know alot and you sure are the master of all knowledge even with the power to shift and change facts at your will.

2. The Bible says a thousand years is a day to God. They died same day they sinned

This is comical. That turn of phrase is obviously metaphorical.

FreeIgboho:
You don't understand. That was Jesus talking! Same old I AM! See below

So when did he say he was going to come to earth and which prophet did he tell that he will get another man's wife pregnant and become a child and be sacrificed to himself in other to forgive humans their sins.

DeepSight:
Again you just enjoy making things up. First you said he was incapable of sin. When his sin is pointed out to you, you then say ah well, thats the only sin he was capable of. Can you not see the shifting of the goal post you are engaging in here? The random speculation?

For one who claims we know nothing, you sure know alot and you sure are the master of all knowledge even with the power to shift and change facts at your will.



This is comical. That turn of phrase is obviously metaphorical.

Come on, that he didn't know good from bad doesn't mean he didn't know when God told him never to do something or something would happen.

So you're then saying that God didn't tell them truth because they didn't die within 24hrs

sonmvayina:
So when did he say he was going to come to earth and which prophet did he tell that he will get another man's wife pregnant and become a child and be sacrificed to himself in other to forgive humans their sins.

Come on, it is clearly stated in the verses I gave you what would happen and that was exactly what happened. Till today, 2000+ years later, he's being worshipped as God and his words have only gotten stronger!

FreeIgboho:
Come on, that he didn't know good from bad doesn't mean he didn't know when God told him never to do something or something would happen.

So you're then saying that God didn't tell them truth because they didn't die within 24hrs

I warned you about this kind of thing. You are dangerously close to doing it again.

FreeIgboho:
.

My good brother I don't think this is the best way to go about this. We humans are given a very limited brain and also our senses perceive a tiny fraction of what is around us. There are things simply beyond our comprehension but which we know are true. Example, God listens to billions of prayers at once; another, God is localized in heaven yet same God is everywhere. You can't prove any of these with mathematics yet we know they are true.
Trinity (fullness of God in Jesus) is one such. It is a MYSTERY! It is unexplainable FROM HUMAM PERSPECTIVE, yet we KNOW it is true!
(DeepSight, sonmvayina, CanadaOrBust, what u say about this?)

This seems like a cop out but either way it is still far better than the other guy's hocus pocus mathematics😆

sonmvayina:
isaiah 44 5-8
5. This one shall say, "I am the Lord's," and this one shall call himself by the name of Jacob, and this one shall write [with] his hand, "To the Lord," and adopt the name Israel.
6. So said the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer the Lord of Hosts, "I am first and I am last, and besides Me there is no god.
7. And who will call [that he is] like Me and will tell it and arrange it for Me, since My placing the ancient people, and the signs and those that will come, let them tell for themselves.
8. Fear not and be not dismayed; did I not let you hear it from then, and I told [it] and you are My witnesses; is there a god besides Me? And there is no rock I did not know.

so between you and the creator who is lying? be truthful for ones

One thing we all agree on - there is only one God

Gabrielshow24:
I understand, that's the essence of the hypostatic union. We do not know the functionalities but the evidence warrants such!

It's just to present a coherent, logical approach to the hypostatic union suitably for the scientific mind. It's not meant to replace scripture nor theology. I don't know how God incorporated both aspects but I know he existed in both without contradiction. Even in flesh, he spoke about giving eternal Life! among other things.

The "how" is a mystery! Except you also want to find fault the council's exemplifications as a union! Even when I was a staunch antichrist on this platform, I independently arrived at such a conclusion—mathematically—before I ever dreamt of an encounter with God. That was the only logical reconciliation that the evidence affords, others lead to heresies—according to christian fundamentals!

No amount of adding and subtracting, dividing and multiplying can make anybody perfect and imperfect at same time. Thank you very much.
Case closed

sonmvayina:
isaiah 44 5-8
5. This one shall say, "I am the Lord's," and this one shall call himself by the name of Jacob, and this one shall write [with] his hand, "To the Lord," and adopt the name Israel.
6. So said the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer the Lord of Hosts, "I am first and I am last, and besides Me there is no god.
7. And who will call [that he is] like Me and will tell it and arrange it for Me, since My placing the ancient people, and the signs and those that will come, let them tell for themselves.
8. Fear not and be not dismayed; did I not let you hear it from then, and I told [it] and you are My witnesses; is there a god besides Me? And there is no rock I did not know.

so between you and the creator who is lying? be truthful for ones

I thought Saul was the king of Israel

CanadaOrBust:
No amount of adding and subtracting, dividing and multiplying can make anybody perfect and imperfect at same time. Thank you very much.
Case closed

Thanks, for your assessment—Nothing I have done involved these 😂. FYI, Jesus wasn't anybody😅. Case closed.

CanadaOrBust:
I thought Saul was the king of Israel

the isrealites operated a theocratic monarchy. God was their king.
but he appointed humans to rule on his behalf.

Gabrielshow24:
Thanks, for your assessment—Nothing I have done involved these 😂. FYI, Jesus wasn't anybody😅. Case closed.

You can say Jesus wasn't anybody - which is same as saying you don't know, instead of using "set theory" and X is in Y and Z is in Q to try to fool us

sonmvayina:
the isrealites operated a theocratic monarchy. God was their king.
but he appointed humans to rule on his behalf.

When they were asked who was their king they never answered God, nor was that recorded in writings

CanadaOrBust:
You can say Jesus wasn't anybody - which is same as saying you don't know, instead of using "set theory" and X is in Y and Z is in Q to try to fool us

You and straws are 5 & 6 — forever grasping! 😅

Jesus is fully God and fully man. That’s what the evidence shows. The how may be a mystery, but the what is clear — a union, specifically a hypostatic union.

A simple Venn diagram of all theological possibilities shows that every alternative collapses under scriptural scrutiny:

* Jesus as only man with no divinity? Scripturally false.
* Jesus as only divine with no humanity? Also false.
* Jesus as some blend or mix of both — like Arianism or ‘Deepsightism’? Nice try, but still fails scripturally.

The Scriptures clearly present Jesus as the Son of Man, a term that in Hebrew context refers to a divine, heavenly figure — God’s appointed regent, His representative. That’s not my opinion, that’s Jewish historical context.

Now let’s talk fullness. Jesus came with the fullness of God dwelling in Him (Colossians 2:9). I don’t know your own definition of "fullness" 😭, but the standard one implies divine equality. And this is not an isolated verse — it's backed up across the New Testament.

All in all, the only position that harmonizes all the scriptural data is the hypostatic union — fully God, fully man, no contradiction. Simple as that.

CanadaOrBust:
When they were asked who was their king they never answered God, nor was that recorded in writings

well, God is not lying. he cant lie.