₦airaland Forum

honesttalk21:
Is it possible to undo a violation of God's kun fayakun?

It seems there's a misunderstanding about what kun fayakun really means.

The Qur’an states, “His command, when He intends a thing, is only that He says to it ‘Be!’ and it is.” (Qur’an 36:82). This highlights God's creative command. Creation itself is obedient; it doesn’t “violate” Him.

So, the foundation of your question is a bit off. Nothing in creation can “undo” or “violate” God's command. The entire universe relies on Him; He is al-Qadir (the All-Powerful).

When sin happens, it’s not that God’s word is “broken.” Instead, He chose to create humans with free will and established consequences for their actions. Forgiveness isn’t a contradiction; it’s simply another expression of His Will.

honesttalk21:
Does God’s forgiveness without justice remove the violation?

In Islam, forgiveness isn’t without justice.

He is al-ʿAdl (The Just) and al-Raḥman (The Merciful).

Justice means that every soul is accountable for its own deeds. “No bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another.” (Qur’an 6:164).

Mercy means He may choose to forgive out of His grace.

There’s no contradiction here, as He forgives whom He wills without compromising justice. How is that possible? Because He holds the rights to punishment. If He decides to forgive, it’s His prerogative as the Sovereign King.

In contrast, Christianity suggests that God cannot forgive without bloodshed. That’s not a display of omnipotence, but rather a limitation. In tawhid, God forgives directly, showcasing a greater majesty.

honesttalk21:
Show any miracle of Allah that was witnessed by anyone that proves He is God

Here, you’re mixing up the Creator with creation. God doesn’t need to perform tricks to prove Himself to anyone. His miracle is existence itself. The Qur’an says:

“In the creation of the heavens and the earth, and in the alternation of night and day, are signs for those of understanding.” (Qur’an 3:190).

But since you’re asking for witnessed miracles:

The Qur’an itself stands as a miracle, unparalleled in its language, prophecy, and preservation. (Even scholars from the West acknowledge its uniqueness.)

Historical miracles attributed to Muhammad (pbuh) include water flowing from his hands, the moon splitting, and the prophecies of the Qur’an coming to fruition. These events have been reported by entire communities (mutawatir).

honesttalk21:
The issue isn’t a lack of evidence; it’s a refusal to acknowledge it Reminiscent of the Jews and Israelite in the Bible?

Now, who is Jesus?

We hold him in higher regard than your doctrine suggests.

According to the Qur’an: “The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, His word that He cast into Mary, and a spirit from Him.” (Qur’an 4:171).

So, he is:

- The Messiah
- A Prophet
- The Word (kalimah) from God
- A Spirit from God

But he is not God Himself. Why? Because the Creator doesn’t eat, sleep, or die. To reduce Him to flesh is to diminish His essence.

honesttalk21:
Regarding the Trinity and the Spirit:

You might ask: “Is Jesus the Holy Spirit or an unholy spirit?”

This reflects some confusion on your part

In Christianity, Jesus is not the Holy Spirit; they are considered distinct “persons” within the Trinity.

In Islam, the Ruh ul-Qudus refers to Jibrīl (Gabriel), the angelic spirit of revelation.

The “spirit” that was breathed into Jesus (Qur’an 66:12) represents the created life force.

So, to clarify; Jesus is a prophet, not the Holy Spirit. In our belief, Jibril is the Holy Spirit, not Jesus.

honesttalk21:
Now, let’s address the notion of salvation in Islam.

Islam does not reject salvation.

Rather, it rejects the idea that God must sacrifice Himself to grant forgiveness. That’s not salvation; that’s a myth.

Our path to salvation isn’t about “rituals” but about submission (Islam).

“Whoever submits his face to Allah and does good he will have his reward with his Lord, and no fear will there be upon them, nor will they grieve.” (Qur’an 2:112)

Islam isn’t about ritual instead of salvation it’s about direct accountability before God without priest or blood sacrifice.

honesttalk21:
What then are God the father, god the son and god the holy spirit with God the father being the greatest? Are these not three distinct entities?

honesttalk21:
Please don't break your neck, it will still be required to carry your head after the junk of misinformation is corrected.

The hadith discussing the seven heavens and seven earths isn’t just a simplistic flat-stacked planets idea. It refers to

1. Literal unseen reality. The heavens and earths do exist, but their true nature is beyond what we can comprehend (bila kayf).

2. Cosmological metaphor. The term “seven” symbolizes layers or regions, similar to the seven strata of the earth or the seven celestial spheres.

3. Spiritual symbol representing the stages of the soul’s ascent and descent.

When it mentions 500 years, it’s actually a piece of Arabic rhetoric meant to convey an unimaginable distance, rather than a precise measurement. The Prophet pbuh concluded the narration by referencing Qur’an 57:3 to emphasize that everything above and below is fully within God’s knowledge and power.

This hadith highlights Allah’s transcendence, rather than providing NASA with a cosmic map of the universe.

TenQ:
It seems you do not understand my question: kunfayakun is beyond God's creative command. It involves ALL commands of God.

What makes God who he is His kunfayakun!
Meaning that ALL God's command without exception MUST be executed to the letter.

God says to man; Do not fornicate, do not worship idols: do not steal.

A man goes opposite to the kunfayakun of God by DOING the Opposite of God's command, their by making God's command to fail . This is what is called SIN.

The question is:
Is it possible for a man who had violated God's command to undo what he has done?

Tell me, if it is possible for Iblis to undo the fact that when Allah says "prostrate to Adam" and he refused!




You don't still understand the question!
Let's assume that Allah forgives Iblis, does this undo the fact that Allah commands was violated by him?

What is the ultimate punishment for Sin in Islam?




So, how do you know that Allah's claims are TRUE?
A Dirty says:
I created everything ...
I have all powers ..
I can do anything..

How do you know he is speaking the truth?
Talk is cheap!




Islamic redefining of Jesus is the problem with Islam.
How do you know anything about Jesus Christ?
Is he the same Jesus as the Jesus of the Christians?
Note: Your own Jesus name is Isa and not Ye'shua





Did the Qur'an not call Jesus a SPIRIT from Allah?
Is he the Unholy Spirit since Jibril is the Holy spirit according to Muslims.




All these are repetitions of assertions which doesn't make it true.

Do you believe that doing good cancel out sin against God?

honesttalk21:
You present your challenge with force, but it seems like you're mixing up some concepts and then pointing fingers at Islam for being weak. You're just inclined to controversy, argument.

You seem to misunderstand the term kun fayakun.It signifies Allah’s creative command when He wills something, it simply comes into being. Human sin doesn’t break His command; it unfolds within His divine decree, according to His will, for which we are held accountable. A sin can't be wiped from history, but Allah has the power to forgive its consequences or even turn it into good deeds, showcasing His justice and mercy together.

Moral commands, like "Do not steal," aren't creative decrees; they represent taklif; the responsibilities placed on humans. When a person disobeys, these commands aren't broken; rather, the individual sins within the framework of Allah’s decree.

So, when Iblis chose to disobey, it didn’t mean Allah’s command failed. That disobedience was already known, willed, and included in Allah’s decree, allowing for the manifestation of free will and accountability. The Qur’an makes this very clear:

When it comes to truth, the Qur’an stands unmatched in its language, prophecy, and preservation. The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was known as al-Amin, the trustworthy. In Islam, Jesus is recognized as the Messiah, born of a virgin, a word and spirit from Allah. Honored, but not divine. The different names (Yeshua/Isa) are simply variations in language, not different individuals.

Islam’s God forgives directly out of His mercy, while Christianity suggests that God is powerless to forgive without sacrificing His own son. So, who truly embodies the Almighty?

So, when Iblis chose to disobey, it didn’t mean Allah’s command failed. That disobedience was already known, willed, and included in Allah’s decree, allowing for the manifestation of free will and accountability. The Qur’an makes this very clear:

honesttalk21:
When it comes to truth, the Qur’an stands unmatched in its language, prophecy, and preservation. The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was known as al-Amin, the trustworthy. In Islam, Jesus is recognized as the Messiah, born of a virgin, a word and spirit from Allah. Honored, but not divine. The different names (Yeshua/Isa) are simply variations in language, not different individuals.

honesttalk21:
Islam’s God forgives directly out of His mercy, while Christianity suggests that God is powerless to forgive without sacrificing His own son. So, who truly embodies the Almighty?

TenQ:
-If the Qur'an is so unmatched in language, how come there are volumes of Tafsirs which often -disagreed with each other.
-How come the Qur'an cannot be read by a layman and understood unless it passed through the lenses of your Scholars.
-The Qur'an is so unmatched and we have serious obvious scientific error in it.
-Quran is so perfect that it contains serious historical errors and blunders.
-The Qur'an is so great yet we find it plagiarising tales of the ancients

Your claims about the Qur'an fall down yakata on the slightest scrutiny.

Your prophet is the Al-Amin, yet we find him telling lies to his wife about her house girl.
Your prophet is Al-Amin, yet he went into a Muslim man's house when the man wasn't home only to later snatch the man's wife.

If I cannot trust you with my wife, you certainly must be very trustworthy



So, I asked!
How can one UNDO ones violation of God's command after it has been violated?

You still seem not to comprehend that what makes God the Almighty is that His Commands CANNOT fail but be carried out to the letter!

How can Allah be the almighty when he commands and the command fails? Please tell me!?

TenQ:
-If the Qur'an is so unmatched in language, how come there are volumes of Tafsirs which often -disagreed with each other.
-How come the Qur'an cannot be read by a layman and understood unless it passed through the lenses of your Scholars.
-The Qur'an is so unmatched and we have serious obvious scientific error in it.
-Quran is so perfect that it contains serious historical errors and blunders.
-The Qur'an is so great yet we find it plagiarising tales of the ancients

Your claims about the Qur'an fall down yakata on the slightest scrutiny.

Your prophet is the Al-Amin, yet we find him telling lies to his wife about her house girl.
Your prophet is Al-Amin, yet he went into a Muslim man's house when the man wasn't home only to later snatch the man's wife.

If I cannot trust you with my wife, you certainly must be very trustworthy



So, I asked!
How can one UNDO ones violation of God's command after it has been violated?

You still seem not to comprehend that what makes God the Almighty is that His Commands CANNOT fail but be carried out to the letter!

How can Allah be the almighty when he commands and the command fails? Please tell me!?

honesttalk21:
Disagreement in tafsīr, or the interpretation of the Qur'an, should not be seen as a flaw; rather, it represents a wealth of perspective. The Qur'an is profound. A gem whose brilliance reflects a spectrum of meanings.
Scholars do not set out to "correct" the Qur'an; instead, they seek to explore its intricate layers. Much like how we wouldn’t dismiss the field of medicine simply because different doctors interpret symptoms in varying ways, even when they all agree on the existence of the body, the same applies to the understanding of the Qur'an.

The Qur'an offers guidance on multiple levels. Its fundamental principles such as tawḥīd (the oneness of God), justice, prayer, and mercy are clear to everyone. However, its deeper meanings often require scholarly insight, much like how the Bible calls for the expertise of pastors and theologians.

Every so-called error that critics point out has already been addressed by both Muslim scholars and neutral observers. Take, for instance, the reference to seven heavens or seven earths. This is understood as layers or realms rather than a literal stacking of planets. Labeling these interpretations as errors imposes contemporary scientific terminology onto a 7th-century text. It’s important to remember that the Qur'an is not intended to be a science textbook; it serves as a guide, pointing us towards Allah.

TenQ:
The post disappeared because of the Nairaland bots.
Here it is once again!

TenQ:
The post disappeared because of the Nairaland bots.
Here it is once again!

honesttalk21:
Again I ask; which is greater a God who forgives directly with mercy, or a God who requires sacrifice because He cannot forgive without blood?

honesttalk21:
Post disappeared.
In any case,


You seem to confuse Allah’s creative command—“Be, and it is”—with His moral commands to humans, like “Do not steal.” When people disobey, it doesn’t make God’s word fail; it only highlights human weakness within Allah’s decree.

Regarding the claim that the Prophet pbuh snatched a man’s wife, and you’re likely referring to Zaynab’s marriage. In reality, this was a divine command meant to abolish false adoption laws. It was a public matter, not a secret, and Zayd, her husband, had already divorced her. Allah revealed verses about this (Qur’an 33:37). To call this “stealing wives” is polemic, not historical fact.

If the Prophet pbuh were deceitful, his enemies who opposed him for 23 years—would have been first to record such accusations. Yet, even they called him al-Amīn, “the Trustworthy.”

Forgiveness doesn’t erase history; it removes punishment. Only the Almighty can transform sin into good. The Qur’an remains unmatched in guidance, depth, and preservation, and differences in tafsīr reflect richness, not weakness. Attacks on the Prophet pbuh are often recycled polemics that have long been refuted.

Again I ask; which is greater a God who forgives directly with mercy, or a God who requires sacrifice because He cannot forgive without blood?

TenQ:
Here it is again. The Nairaland bots have gone crazy

And your question have also been answered here before it was deleted

TenQ:
The God who Pays for the Damage caused by the OFFENDER as a consequence of FORGIVING him is the Merciful God. The God whose kunfayakun cannot be violated without consequences is the Holy God.

The God whose kunfayakun was violated and he cannot restore it looses his almightiness. Because the OFFENDER goes scot-free with no consequence for his offence. Isn't this how Allah forgives? Allah waves away SIN because he doesn't know that sin is a violation of his integrity as God!

The question still remains:
What can be done to UNDO the IRREVERENCE of a Sinner to the Almighty God.Only a Deity that doesn't know the meaning of "The Almighty" and what it means to be "Holy" will swallow the contempt of his own creature.

I guess you don't even understand what it means when we say "God is Holy"!

honesttalk21:
Fantastic.
1. Your God must justify his forgiving the imperfectness of mankind who errs? Isn't sincere regret and repentance not enough justification? Oh no mankind must pay by spilling blood of the innocent.
How is this not further misdeed?

Unfortunately you don't bring sentiments and emotions into the law. No matter how much you say and sign papers an adopted person is never biological. Then you ignore the fact that the initial marriage was already gone.

Even your book tells you the perfection you seek is not in this world.
the whole creation groans and travails in pain until now (Romans 8:22)

My kingdom is not of this world (John 18:36)
For here we have no continuing city, but we seek the one to come (Hebrews 13:14)


Keep skewing your responses. Glad to note you always screenshot your responses as you anticipate it's deletion.

Then don't forget to answer.

Which is greater a God who forgives directly with mercy, or a God who requires sacrifice because He cannot forgive without blood?

honesttalk21:
Imagine a scientist or engineer remaining conflicted and confused about the creative power of God that includes the free will given to man. Allah decreed a world in which man could choose to disobey, this is still within kunfayakun.

Continue in your cannibal ways following in your skewed beliefs that God requires blood sacrifice because He cannot forgive without blood shed


Hahaha 🤣 🤣 🤣 You didn't remember to screenshot this response and skew it to post up?

TenQ:
According to you:
Allah is NOT Sovereign over Man, Angels or Jinn because they have free Will.


Unfortunately,
There is no FreeWill in Islam. Isn't everything the DESTINY of Allah?

It is Allah you causes a Man to commit sin by his destiny only to turn around to claim forgiveness.

How can a man be guilty of what he was programmed to do by Allah?


You have just proved it that he author of SIN is Allah because he destined People to commit sin.

Thank you very much.

Your grasp of spiritual things is dismally abysmal at the least in Islam. This is your problem!

TenQ:
1. Is Allah just?
2. What is the meaning?
3. Is it just to allow a sinner go without consequences?

Your Question:
Which is greater a God who forgives directly with mercy, or a God who requires sacrifice because He cannot forgive without blood ?



The God (YHWH) who Pays for the damage caused by Sin by Himself so that the Sinner can go free is the greatest.
Why?
1. His justice is not compromised
2. His love is also made manifest to the sinner who received His gift of forgiveness
3. The consequences of the sin of the Sinner is fully PAID so that he at no personal cost is GUILTLESS!




The God who forgives directly without justice forfeits his sovereignty because a Sinner who violated his integrity suffers ZERO consequence for his insubordination which makes this God completely UNJUST!
Why?
1. This God called Allah doesn't understand that sin is a violation of his integrity as God.
2. This God is completely UNJUST because the wicked man is granted freedom without paying for the consequences of his sin


A man rapes a woman who ended up getting pregnant with an ectopic pregnancy. She died on the operating table. Her four children dropped out of school. They became destitutes. One was crushed by a Trailer, Ritual killers while she slept under the bridge, one in desperation due to hardship drank sniper and died and the last is awaiting execution for armed robbery. All caused by this man.

What do you think should be his reward for his act of rape?

Muslims think that sin is just an action, they don't know that the consequences go beyond the man.

According to you,
Allah says to this man, "because you said Allah illa lah, your sins are forgiven". How about the damages caused? Who pays for it? Is it this woman or her children?


Muslims do not understand a hoot about spiritual things and worse, they don't understand the magnitude of sin. Sin is the violation of the INTEGRITY of the Almighty God

honesttalk21:
Terrific lengths you go to in lies. Saying things I didn't say or characteristically taking my words out of context as you often do with hadith and try with Qur'an verses.

Attention mischievously lieing tenq.

In Islam, Allah’s sovereignty is absolute. Allah is the Creator of everything, and He is, over all things, Disposer of affairs (Qur’an 39:62). However, He has given humans and jinn the gift of free will as a test. And We guided him to the two paths (Qur’an 90:10). This freedom doesn’t take away from His power, since you do not will except that Allah wills (Qur’an 81:29). Sin happens only because Allah allows it, in His wisdom, to reveal sincerity, hypocrisy, repentance, and rebellion yet He remains fully in control, and humans are still accountable for their actions.

The Bible reflects a similar balance. In the Old Testament, it states, I form the light, and create darkness, I make peace, and create evil, I the LORD do all these things” (Isaiah 45:7), highlighting God’s ultimate authority. Still, humans are held responsible for their decisions. I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live (Deuteronomy 30:19). In the New Testament, Paul reinforces this idea for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose (Philippians 2:13).

In conclusion, both the Qur’an and the Bible affirm that God’s sovereignty and human responsibility go hand in hand. Sin doesn’t undermine God’s authority; rather, it unfolds within His divine plan, leaving humanity accountable to their Creator.

Let me ask you, why is it that when only Adam and Eve existed in the garden of Eden, God did not stop them from disobeying the command not to eat fruit from the tree from which they were forbidden.

Anyway, your base faulty philosophy that there must be transactional payment for sin to be forgiven.
Why does your God require blood sacrifice because He cannot forgive without blood shed?

Imagine a scientist or engineer remaining conflicted and confused about the creative power of God that includes the free will given to man. Allah decreed a world in which man could choose to disobey, this is still within kunfayakun.

honesttalk21:
All these horrible events happen outside the scope of your YHWH or he hasn't been the same since you slung him up on the cross?

TenQ:
I gave you a simple case to illustrate the fallout and consequence of SIN for you to apply Islamic logic and doctrine


A man rapes a woman who ended up getting pregnant with an ectopic pregnancy. She died on the operating table. Her four children dropped out of school. They became destitutes. One was crushed by a Trailer, Ritual killers harvested the skull of one while she slept under the bridge, one in desperation due to hardship drank sniper and died and the last is awaiting execution for armed robbery. All caused by this man.

What do you think should be his reward for his act of rape?

Muslims think that sin is just an action, they don't know that the consequences go beyond the man.

According to you,
Allah says to this man, "because you said lah illah ila lah, your sins are forgiven". How about the damages caused? Who pays for it? Is it this woman or her children?


Muslims do not understand a hoot about spiritual things and worse, they don't understand the magnitude of sin. Sin is the violation of the INTEGRITY of the Almighty God

TenQ:
I gave you a simple case to illustrate the fallout and consequence of SIN for you to apply Islamic logic and doctrine


A man rapes a woman who ended up getting pregnant with an ectopic pregnancy. She died on the operating table. Her four children dropped out of school. They became destitutes. One was crushed by a Trailer, Ritual killers harvested the skull of one while she slept under the bridge, one in desperation due to hardship drank sniper and died and the last is awaiting execution for armed robbery. All caused by this man.

What do you think should be his reward for his act of rape?

Muslims think that sin is just an action, they don't know that the consequences go beyond the man.

According to you,
Allah says to this man, "because you said lah illah ila lah, your sins are forgiven". How about the damages caused? Who pays for it? Is it this woman or her children?


Muslims do not understand a hoot about spiritual things and worse, they don't understand the magnitude of sin. Sin is the violation of the INTEGRITY of the Almighty God

honesttalk21:
In Islam, sin is never taken lightly. It has serious repercussions on three fronts: the guilt felt before Allah, the tangible harm inflicted on others, and the rights of victims that must be addressed. A rapist who has caused a woman's death and left her children to suffer will bear the full weight of these consequences on the Day of Judgment. The Prophet pbuh referred to such individuals as “bankrupt.” They might arrive with their prayers and fasting, but their victims will claim their good deeds as compensation. Once those run out, the sins of the victims will be placed upon them before they are cast into Hell.

honesttalk21:
Simply saying la ilaha illa Allah won’t wipe away these grave offenses unless it’s paired with genuine repentance, restitution, and forgiveness from those who were wronged.
The Qur’an clearly states that anyone who unjustly takes a life will face Hell, divine anger, and a curse (Qur’an 4:93). At the same time, the victims are not forgotten as every bit of pain they endured is noted and rewarded by Allah.

honesttalk21:
This approach is far more equitable than what is found in Christianity.
In that faith of Christianity, a criminal who “accepts Jesus” is often deemed forgiven, leaving their victims without any form of compensation. This not only undermines justice but also mercy, as it excuses the guilty while neglecting the oppressed. In contrast, Islam ensures that every wrong is rectified, every victim is honored, and every crime is accounted for. This way, divine justice is upheld, human responsibility is recognized, and mercy remains available for those who truly repent.

honesttalk21:
Or how does Christianity contradict the son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, nor the father the iniquity of the son;Ezekiel 18:20
Oh Jesus is not the father of Christians so it doesn't apply.

And Deut. 24:16 that each will die for his own sin

TenQ:
It is good that you are now seeing sin as more than just disobedience but one with for more damaging long lasting impact.

But Allah waves this sin away without justice. Isn't this your argument all along ?



So, the rapist says he is sorry and has genuinely repented. .. Has this erased the gravity of his sin?
Is his repentance equal to the damage he has committed?

What happened to justice?




Jesus paid the fine or punishment for the sins of the sinner.
It's like a son had an accident with his car damaging several things worth billions and his father by himself paid for ALL the damages. Is this fair in law and use of justice


I asked you a simple question:
What do you think should be his reward for his act of rape by this man?


In Christianity, Jesus Christ is our Ransom from the consequences of Sin unfortunately, for you Muslims, we Christians and Jews are your own ransom.
Does this make sense to you?

TenQ:
No human being can pay the price of sin for another human being.
Why?
All human beings are sinners by nature.


The wages of Sin is ETERNITY in Hell: whoever will pay this price must be worth INFINITY in all ramifications.

This is why the LAMB of God that takes away the sin of the World has a Value of INFINITY in all ramifications.

This explains why JESUS is NOT a man like you and me BUT is One who has the value of INFINITY in all Ramifications.

honesttalk21:
In Islam, sin isn't just brushed aside. Allah embodies perfect justice, meaning every wrongdoing is taken into account. If someone commits a heinous act like rape and devastates lives, their sincere repentance might lead to Allah’s forgiveness, but they still have to confront the consequences of their actions. On the Day of Judgment, the victims will claim their share of the perpetrator's good deeds until justice is served. If those good deeds run out, the perpetrator will carry the weight of their victims' sins and face punishment in Hell. Repentance in Islam isn’t a free pass; it demands genuine remorse, a commitment to change, restitution when possible, and accountability to both Allah and the victims.

honesttalk21:
Do you Christian say once you accept Jesus Christ as lord and personal saviour all things past are forgiven and you have been made new? Islam doesn't say you are not punished on earth but that this will be both on earth and in the afterlife.

The Christian idea that "Jesus paid it all" might sound comforting, but it falls apart under examination. True justice requires that the guilty face the consequences of their actions; punishing an innocent person is simply wrong. The Bible states, “The soul that sins shall die; the son shall not bear the iniquity of the father” (Ezekiel 18:20). Yet, Christianity asks us to accept that God violated His own principle by punishing Jesus, who was innocent, for the sins of others. This isn’t justice; it’s a distortion of justice.

honesttalk21:
The analogy of a son crashing a car and the father covering the costs doesn’t hold up either. That’s a financial issue, not a matter of moral guilt. If a man commits murder and his father is punished instead, no court would deem that just.
Similarly, the notion that only an “infinite Jesus” could atone for sins is riddled with contradictions. If Jesus is God, then who died on the cross? God can’t die. If only the human aspect died, then the sacrifice was limited. If the divine aspect died, then God would have ceased to exist; an impossibility.

honesttalk21:
Islam’s teachings are clearer and more just. Each individual carries their own burden (Qur’an 6:164), just as Ezekiel taught. Victims of oppression receive compensation, the wrongdoer is held accountable, and sincere repentance can still lead to mercy. In contrast, Christianity shifts the blame onto the innocent and leaves victims without recompense. Islam maintains both divine justice and mercy without any contradictions.

honesttalk21:
In Christianity, it often seems like the guilty can escape punishment while the innocent suffer; on the other hand, in Islam, the guilty face consequences, victims receive compensation, and God’s mercy is always available. Which of these systems truly embodies divine justice?

honesttalk21:
The saying, “No bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another,” reminds us that each individual is responsible for their own actions (6:164, 17:15, 35:18, 39:7, 53:38).

Imam al-Nawawi explains that this metaphorical language isn’t about literally transferring sins from one person to another. Instead, it highlights that disbelievers will face consequences for their own disbelief and wrongdoings, while Muslims can find forgiveness through Allah’s mercy.

honesttalk21:
It’s important to note that the punishment faced by Jews and Christians doesn’t exempt Muslims; there’s no swapping of burdens here.

Muslims find salvation through their faith and Allah’s mercy, while those Jews and Christians who turn away from the truth will be held accountable for their own actions.

When we talk about “ransom” in this context, it’s more of a figurative contrast rather than a literal substitution. The phrase “your ransom from Hell-fire” suggests that the punishment some Muslims might deserve is instead placed upon the disbelievers who have earned it through their disbelief and misdeeds.

Another valid interpretation is that the sins carried by Jews and Christians often stem from the misguided teachings or innovations they introduced, which led others into sin. For instance, if they influenced Muslims to stray, then the weight of leading others astray falls heavily on their shoulders (Quran 16:25).

TenQ:
Sin is brushed aside in Islam: that had been your claim that Allah just FORGIVE the sinner by his mercy.

This was why I asked you the question that you have not answered till now.
What do you think should be his reward for his act of rape by this man?

Your claim of trading of good for evil is naive. Using this rapist as an example, what good will replace the mother of these children? What amount of money will atone for the violent rape of this woman. What good will erase the death and destruction of the lives of these children.

What if the victim is already a candidate for hell?
What share of the transgressors good will be transferred to her?

Islam is a com. .edy of spiritual nonsense!


If the consequence of Sin against God is ETERNITY in Hell Fire, do you think any Human being can completely fully pay such a price?

This is why only God can pay it for man.

A human being cannot pay for the sin of another: it is impossible. But the question is according to the Bible, is Jesus a mere human being like you and me?
Sorry, you have no case!

The only reason God pays the price of sin for us is that
1. He loves us above any of His Creations
2. It is impossible for any man to pay for his sins

Too bad for Islam that teaches Muslims to reject the SOLUTION of God for the solution of many.


I used an illustration according to the limitations of humanity and not with respect to God. Is this illustration valid for justice amongst men?

Sin is against God's integrity and thus only God determines both the punishment and the value of fine to be paid.


Don't forget that according to you, Allah forgives according to his mercy meaning that the sinner goes free without any consequence for violating the kunfayakun of Allah.

Islamic doctrine actually show that sin is trivial!
Sorry!


Again, putting your claim to test.
This rapist repents and says la illah illa lah and becomes a Muslim. Allah forgives him without him paying for the gravity of his sin.




Your hadith says that Muslims will be REMOVED from Hell and Christians and Jews would be used to replace them. If I am wrong, please quote the hadith and not imam al-Nawawi



Please read the hadith and repeat exactly what it says and don't re-interprete it to say what you want.

The hadith is extremely simple and clear. Christians and Jews are your ransom from the Fire of Hell.
"No bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another,” is contradicted by this hadith.

Sorry!

honesttalk21:
In Islam, sin is taken very seriously. A rapist or murderer doesn’t just get a free pass; they face consequences in this life, are held accountable to their victims on the Day of Judgment, and will face Allah’s judgment in the Hereafter. The Prophet pbuh stated, “Rights will surely be restored to their rightful owners on the Day of Resurrection.” (Muslim). This means that no crime goes unpunished, and every victim will receive compensation. Forgiveness in Islam isn’t just a get-out-of-jail-free card; it demands genuine repentance and restitution, but even then, the rights of the victims are still honored.

honesttalk21:
On the flip side, Christianity often shifts the burden of guilt from the wrongdoer to the innocent Jesus, even though the Bible clearly teaches: “The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father.” (Ezekiel 18:20). Islam sees this as fundamentally unjust. Each person is responsible for their own actions, as the Qur’an states: “No bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another.” (6:164).

honesttalk21:
Regarding the hadith where the Prophet pbuh mentions that Allah will give each Muslim a Jew or a Christian and say, “This is your ransom from Hellfire” (Muslim 2767), scholars clarify that this doesn’t imply substitution. It signifies that Allah forgives believers while intensifying the punishment for those who have already rejected Him. They are punished for their own sins, not for anyone else’s.

honesttalk21:
In Islam the Qur’an is final so any hadith is read in line with it. The Qur’an says no soul bears another’s burden (6:164), so ‘ransom’ is metaphorical, not literal; but Christianity really does put the guilt of all mankind on the innocent Jesus, which directly contradicts Ezekiel 18:20.

Thus, Islam maintains a balance of justice and mercy: the guilty are held accountable, victims receive compensation, and no innocent person bears the weight of another’s crime. In contrast, Christianity suggests salvation comes from punishing the innocent for the guilty. Which system truly embodies divine justice?

honesttalk21:
True justice means the guilty face the consequences, not the innocent. Islam stands firm on this principle, while Christianity seems to flip it on its head by placing the sins of humanity on Jesus, who never committed them.

If Ezekiel 18:20 clearly states, “The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father,” how can you assert that Jesus bears the sins of all mankind without contradicting your own Bible?