₦airaland Forum

JimRohn:
Your “reasons” collapse once examined. Let’s address them one by one, with clarity and logic.

1️⃣ Prophecies of Jesus in the Old Testament
The so-called “prophecies” you refer to are vague and later reinterpreted. Jews themselves — the custodians of the Old Testament — do not read them as predictions of a divine Jesus. If the very nation entrusted with the Torah never saw your “Trinity” in their scripture, your claim is nothing more than retrofitting verses to theology invented centuries later.

2️⃣ John the Baptist’s role
John was indeed a great prophet, but even he never said Jesus was God. He called him the Messiah — a human prophet and servant of God. The exaggerated Christian spin that John’s humility somehow proves divinity is a leap of logic. Great prophets always humbled themselves before God’s chosen servants.

3️⃣ The voice at baptism
Hearing a “voice from heaven” is not proof of divinity. At Jesus’ baptism, the text itself distinguishes between God (“This is my Son”) and Jesus. If Jesus were literally God, why does another voice need to announce it? This scene shows separation, not unity of essence. Furthermore, the Bible often uses “son of God” metaphorically (e.g., Adam, Israel, David). To seize on this one usage and make it literal for Jesus alone is inconsistent.

4️⃣ Jesus forgiving sins, raising the dead, accepting worship
Jesus himself said: “I can do nothing by myself” (John 5:30). Every miracle he performed was by God’s permission. Prophets before him raised the dead (Elijah, Elisha) and performed wonders, yet no one called them God. As for “accepting worship,” the Greek words often translated as “worship” in the Gospels also mean “respect” or “homage.” Bowing before prophets and kings was common in Jewish tradition and never implied divinity.

5️⃣ “His words will never pass away”
If that were true, why do we have thousands of conflicting manuscripts, with additions, deletions, and alterations acknowledged by Christian scholars themselves? The Qur’an, not the Bible, is the scripture preserved word for word for over 1,400 years.

6️⃣ Jesus raising himself from the dead
If Jesus raised himself, then who raised him? The New Testament itself contradicts you:

Acts 2:24 — “But God raised him from the dead.”

Acts 3:15 — “You killed the author of life, but God raised him from the dead.”

Romans 10:9 — “…God raised him from the dead.”
So did he raise himself, or did God raise him? Your claim is self-contradictory.

7️⃣ Worship after death proves nothing
False gods and idols have been worshipped for thousands of years too. The persistence of worship is no evidence of truth. Longevity of belief does not equal divine reality — otherwise you’d have to accept Hindu deities or Pharaoh’s worship as true.

8️⃣ Worshipped “interchangeably with the Father”
That’s precisely the problem: polytheism disguised as Christianity. Worshipping the Father and the Son destroys the absolute oneness of God. The very first commandment is clear: “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is One” (Mark 12:29). Jesus himself repeated it — but Christians replaced it with later church doctrine.

9️⃣ “The Father blesses the worshippers”
God blesses even disbelievers in this life (health, rain, provision). Material or emotional experiences are not proof of doctrinal truth. If blessings proved divinity, then idol-worshippers who prosper would also be worshipping the true God — which you would reject.

🔟 “He is alive and active today”
Yes, Jesus is alive — but as a prophet and servant of Allah, awaiting his second coming. His life is no proof of divinity. Many saints, prophets, and martyrs remain alive in the unseen world, but no one calls them God.

The bottom line:
You have not provided a single explicit, unambiguous statement from Jesus himself saying: “I am God, worship me.” Instead, you stack assumptions, reinterpret verses, and rely on later church theology. Islam’s message remains pure and uncompromised:

> “Say: He is Allah, the One. Allah, the Eternal. He neither begets nor is begotten. And there is none comparable to Him.” (Qur’an 112:1-4)

😂😂😂Wonders shall never cease. I will also like a single unambiguous statement of Isa saying he is the Messiah 🤔 in the Qu...

I would have loved to tackle your delusions one after the other but I am a prime suspect for that bot, I can barely even mention simple terms related to your religion without going on a sabbatical 🤕—Hopefully, this goes through 🤕.

Gabrielshow24:
😂😂😂Wonders shall never cease. I will also like a single unambiguous statement of Isa saying he is the Messiah 🤔 in the Qu...

I would have loved to tackle your delusions one after the other but I am a prime suspect for that bot, I can barely even mention simple terms related to your religion without going on a sabbatical 🤕—Hopefully, this goes through 🤕.

So instead of answering my challenge, you’re hiding behind emojis and deflection? Typical. Let’s expose the weakness in your response.

1️⃣ You laugh, but laughter is the last defense of someone cornered. I asked for one clear, unambiguous verse where Jesus says: ‘I am God, worship me.’ You couldn’t provide it. You know why? Because it doesn’t exist. Mockery is not an argument, it’s an admission of defeat.

2️⃣ You ask for proof of Jesus being Messiah in the Qur’an? That’s easy:

“[And mention] when the angels said, ‘O Mary, indeed Allah gives you glad tidings of a Word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, distinguished in this world and the Hereafter and among those brought near [to Allah].’” (Qur’an 3:45)
Crystal clear. The Qur’an names him directly Al-Masih ‘Isa ibn Maryam. No guesswork, no church councils, no retrofitting verses.

3️⃣ You mock with ‘suspect of a bot’ excuse, but that’s just running from the real issue. If your faith was built on truth, you’d bring evidence. Instead, you resort to sarcasm because you know your Bible doesn’t contain the words you desperately want Jesus to have said.

4️⃣ Let me remind you: Islam doesn’t need mental gymnastics. We don’t invent doctrines centuries later at councils. We don’t hide behind emojis when challenged. Our scripture is preserved, our theology is consistent: One God, absolute, without partners, without confusion.

Bottom line: If you’re proud of your Trinity, defend it with scripture. Show me Jesus saying “I am God, worship me.” Until then, your laughter and excuses only prove that Christianity survives on assumption, not revelation.

JimRohn:
So instead of answering my challenge, you’re hiding behind emojis and deflection? Typical. Let’s expose the weakness in your response.

1️⃣ You laugh, but laughter is the last defense of someone cornered. I asked for one clear, unambiguous verse where Jesus says: ‘I am God, worship me.’ You couldn’t provide it. You know why? Because it doesn’t exist. Mockery is not an argument, it’s an admission of defeat.

2️⃣ You ask for proof of Jesus being Messiah in the Qur’an? That’s easy:

“[And mention] when the angels said, ‘O Mary, indeed Allah gives you glad tidings of a Word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, distinguished in this world and the Hereafter and among those brought near [to Allah].’” (Qur’an 3:45)
Crystal clear. The Qur’an names him directly Al-Masih ‘Isa ibn Maryam. No guesswork, no church councils, no retrofitting verses.

3️⃣ You mock with ‘suspect of a bot’ excuse, but that’s just running from the real issue. If your faith was built on truth, you’d bring evidence. Instead, you resort to sarcasm because you know your Bible doesn’t contain the words you desperately want Jesus to have said.

4️⃣ Let me remind you: Islam doesn’t need mental gymnastics. We don’t invent doctrines centuries later at councils. We don’t hide behind emojis when challenged. Our scripture is preserved, our theology is consistent: One God, absolute, without partners, without confusion.

Bottom line: If you’re proud of your Trinity, defend it with scripture. Show me Jesus saying “I am God, worship me.” Until then, your laughter and excuses only prove that Christianity survives on assumption, not revelation.

Well, you still failed miserably. I asked for a single verse where Isa said by himself that he was the messiah 😮‍💨. You can't fool me, I am well familiar with your books.

My laughter is not an admission of defeat, which seems so early for one like you to say given the fact that you do not know me, neither have we interacted before. I have made low a lot of your brothers and their ’doctrines’. I am one of the prime recipients for suspension along with TenQ to the extent I don't bother going to your section nor even mentioning the name of your prophet —to show you how bad it is.

I do not hide behind emojis, that's my way. I use emojis to portray my current state, whether you see it as ’hiding’ that's your business. I will still use emojis when in a conversation with any one and I hope your logic is strong, for you do not know what you want to face 🙃.

You should know I can't be deceived by Allah's Mangekyo Sharingan that he cast on the bewildered observers of your prophet's ’supposed splitting of the moon’. You must do better.

I will advise you ahead of time to start getting evidence for your holy city, for your prophet existing within the said city at the same time you purported him to have existed.

Gabrielshow24:
Well, you still failed miserably. I asked for a single verse where Isa said by himself that he was the messiah 😮‍💨. You can't fool me, I am well familiar with your books.

My laughter is not an admission of defeat, which seems so early for one like you to say given the fact that you do not know me, neither have we interacted before. I have made low a lot of your brothers and their ’doctrines’. I am one of the prime recipients for suspension along with TenQ to the extent I don't bother going to your section nor even mentioning the name of your prophet —to show you how bad it is.

I do not hide behind emojis, that's my way. I use emojis to portray my current state, whether you see it as ’hiding’ that's your business. I will still use emojis when in a conversation with any one and I hope your logic is strong, for you do not know what you want to face 🙃.

You should know I can't be deceived by Allah's Mangekyo Sharingan that he cast on the bewildered observers of your prophet's ’supposed splitting of the moon’. You must do better.

I will advise you ahead of time to start getting evidence for your holy city, for your prophet existing within the said city at the same time you purported him to have existed.

You dodge again, and the louder you mock, the clearer your weakness shows. Let’s dismantle your noise.

1️⃣ You demanded proof that Jesus himself said he was the Messiah. I gave you Qur’an 3:45 — explicitly naming him Al-Masih, ‘Isa ibn Maryam. That’s revelation, not second-hand hearsay. Meanwhile, your Bible itself shows Jesus denying messianic claims until questioned: ‘Who do you say that I am?’ (Mark 8:29). He never once declared: ‘I am God, worship me’ — that silence alone destroys your foundation.

2️⃣ You boast about “making low” others. Empty chest-thumping. The fact remains: every time you’re asked for explicit words of Jesus affirming divinity, you collapse into rhetoric and emojis. Argument by arrogance is no argument at all.

3️⃣ Your Sharingan mockery of the splitting of the moon only exposes your ignorance. The Qur’an doesn’t need anime metaphors — it presents a sign witnessed in history. If you reject it, then apply the same standard to your own tales: walking on water, virgin birth, resurrection. You accept supernatural events in your text but scoff at those in ours — hypocrisy laid bare.

4️⃣ Your threat about “getting evidence for Makkah and the Prophet ﷺ” is laughable. Archeological, historical, and linguistic evidence confirms the existence of both the city and the Prophet. The entire world acknowledges this — even secular historians. Meanwhile, you can’t produce a single shred of first-hand writing from Jesus himself, nor a contemporary witness to his supposed divinity. Christianity rests on anonymous gospel writers decades later.

Bottom line:
You still haven’t answered the challenge: Quote Jesus saying, ‘I am God, worship me.’ Until you do, you’re just dressing up your failure with arrogance, mockery, and emojis. Islam stands on clarity and preservation. Christianity clings to contradictions and council-made dogmas.

Face the truth — or keep hiding behind laughter. Either way, your silence on the core question speaks louder than your words.

JimRohn:
You dodge again, and the louder you mock, the clearer your weakness shows. Let’s dismantle your noise.

1️⃣ You demanded proof that Jesus himself said he was the Messiah. I gave you Qur’an 3:45 — explicitly naming him Al-Masih, ‘Isa ibn Maryam. That’s revelation, not second-hand hearsay. Meanwhile, your Bible itself shows Jesus denying messianic claims until questioned: ‘Who do you say that I am?’ (Mark 8:29). He never once declared: ‘I am God, worship me’ — that silence alone destroys your foundation.

2️⃣ You boast about “making low” others. Empty chest-thumping. The fact remains: every time you’re asked for explicit words of Jesus affirming divinity, you collapse into rhetoric and emojis. Argument by arrogance is no argument at all.

3️⃣ Your Sharingan mockery of the splitting of the moon only exposes your ignorance. The Qur’an doesn’t need anime metaphors — it presents a sign witnessed in history. If you reject it, then apply the same standard to your own tales: walking on water, virgin birth, resurrection. You accept supernatural events in your text but scoff at those in ours — hypocrisy laid bare.

4️⃣ Your threat about “getting evidence for Makkah and the Prophet ﷺ” is laughable. Archeological, historical, and linguistic evidence confirms the existence of both the city and the Prophet. The entire world acknowledges this — even secular historians. Meanwhile, you can’t produce a single shred of first-hand writing from Jesus himself, nor a contemporary witness to his supposed divinity. Christianity rests on anonymous gospel writers decades later.

Bottom line:
You still haven’t answered the challenge: Quote Jesus saying, ‘I am God, worship me.’ Until you do, you’re just dressing up your failure with arrogance, mockery, and emojis. Islam stands on clarity and preservation. Christianity clings to contradictions and council-made dogmas.

Face the truth — or keep hiding behind laughter. Either way, your silence on the core question speaks louder than your words.

This is funny, so you don't have a single unequivocal statement where Isa said he was the messiah and yet you believe him as such —Who's the hypocrite? 😂

I haven't even started with you, I am just reflecting your logic back at you and you are already squirming...this is going to be fun😁.

Now using your same logic of ’revelation’ 😂, I have infact in revelation 22:13., Jesus claiming to be God, which is a direct quotation of Isaiah 44:6 ’I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God,’ Based on your own logic, I don't need hearsays to affirm that Jesus is God!

Now the onus is on you to show me where Isa(Jesus) called himself a messiah unequivocally and unambiguously 🤨.—Don't bother yourself, you can't 😂😂😂

To address your point^[2]: I don't collapse into anything. That's my way, you can do so well as to check out most of my comments, I use emoji to express myself. You are the one taking it as some sign of ’admission of defeat’—Which is really funny.

Your ’Appeal to hypocrisy’ is dumbfounding, I don't need much thinking to ascertain that those ’miracles’ are not global. Unfortunately for you,the moon is a global object with scientific functions related to tides etc.,
Now you have your work cut out for you,how did a global object split and ¹ it wasn't recorded by any stargazing civilization, ²it had no effect upon the sea or tides😂— Hence the reason why I call it ’mangekyo sharingan’. The reaction of some of ’those’ that observed it was that someone cast a spell upon them which is not to far away from the ’sharingan’😂


This last point of yours is just funny 😂, oya..bring historical evidences that support the existence of your holy city🤕. Let's start from there. You can deceive the untrained eye but you and I both know the first time, historically, that ’your city’ was mentioned, now compare it to the huge claim(s) made about it.

Gabrielshow24:
This is funny, so you don't have a single unequivocal statement where Isa said he was the messiah and yet you believe him as such —Who's the hypocrite? 😂

I haven't even started with you, I am just reflecting your logic back at you and you are already squirming...this is going to be fun😁.

Now using your same logic of ’revelation’ 😂, I have infact in revelation 22:13., Jesus claiming to be God, which is a direct quotation of Isaiah 44:6 ’I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God,’ Based on your own logic, I don't need hearsays to affirm that Jesus is God!

Now the onus is on you to show me where Isa(Jesus) called himself a messiah unequivocally and unambiguously 🤨.—Don't bother yourself, you can't 😂😂😂

To address your point^[2]: I don't collapse into anything. That's my way, you can do so well as to check out most of my comments, I use emoji to express myself. You are the one taking it as some sign of ’admission of defeat’—Which is really funny.

Your ’Appeal to hypocrisy’ is dumbfounding, I don't need much thinking to ascertain that those ’miracles’ are not global. Unfortunately for you,the moon is a global object with scientific functions related to tides etc.,
Now you have your work cut out for you,how did a global object split and ¹ it wasn't recorded by any stargazing civilization, ²it had no effect upon the sea or tides😂— Hence the reason why I call it ’mangekyo sharingan’. The reaction of some of ’those’ that observed it was that someone cast a spell upon them which is not to far away from the ’sharingan’😂


This last point of yours is just funny 😂, oya..bring historical evidences that support the existence of your holy city🤕. Let's start from there. You can deceive the untrained eye but you and I both know the first time, historically, that ’your city’ was mentioned, now compare it to the huge claim(s) made about it.

You’ve run from the core challenge yet again, so let’s shred your claims without mercy.

1️⃣ On the Messiah claim
You demanded proof that Jesus called himself Messiah. The Qur’an 3:45 explicitly names him Al-Masih, ‘Isa ibn Maryam. That is divine revelation, not your anonymous, error-ridden gospels. In your own Bible, Jesus only admits being Messiah when others question him (Mark 8:29; John 4:25-26). That proves he identified as Messiah, but never as God. Hypocrisy is twisting scripture to demand one standard of Islam while failing to meet it yourself.

2️⃣ Revelation 22:13 “I am the First and the Last”
Your desperation is showing. That verse is from Revelation, a book written decades after Jesus by an anonymous author — not Jesus speaking directly. Worse, Revelation is a dream/vision, not a transcript. You want “unambiguous” words? Then stop dragging symbolic apocalyptic passages into the discussion. The challenge remains: show me Jesus, with his own mouth, saying “I am God, worship me.” Revelation is not Jesus speaking in the flesh. Try again.

3️⃣ The moon-splitting mockery
Your “scientific objection” collapses instantly. You accept the virgin birth, water turned to wine, resurrection — none of which were “globally observed” or scientifically recorded — yet you sneer at the moon splitting. Hypocrisy exposed. Furthermore, ancient Indian and Yemeni records exist describing unusual lunar events, while your “stargazing civilizations” failed to record even an eclipse in detail for centuries. Your standard is inconsistent: if miracles must be global, then your gospel miracles are automatically false by your own measure.

4️⃣ On Makkah’s existence
Laughable. The existence of Makkah as an ancient city is supported by archaeological evidence, trade records, and even Greco-Roman references to the Arabian trade routes that passed through it. Pre-Islamic poetry and inscriptions also confirm it. Meanwhile, you cannot produce one shred of contemporary evidence that Jesus ever called himself God — not a single line of Aramaic writing, not one firsthand source. Christianity rests on hearsay decades later; Islam rests on preserved revelation and historical continuity.

Bottom line:
You keep dodging. You mock, but you cannot answer. You quote Revelation while refusing to give the words of Jesus himself. You demand “science” for Islam’s miracles while blind to the unscientific claims of your own book. You question Makkah while your own faith lacks proof of Jesus writing anything or explicitly claiming divinity.

So here’s the challenge once more: Quote Jesus, directly, saying: “I am God, worship me.” If you cannot, then admit what is already obvious: Christianity survives on assumption, patchwork theology, and desperate deflection.

JimRohn:
You’ve run from the core challenge yet again, so let’s shred your claims without mercy.

1️⃣ On the Messiah claim
You demanded proof that Jesus called himself Messiah. The Qur’an 3:45 explicitly names him Al-Masih, ‘Isa ibn Maryam. That is divine revelation, not your anonymous, error-ridden gospels. In your own Bible, Jesus only admits being Messiah when others question him (Mark 8:29; John 4:25-26). That proves he identified as Messiah, but never as God. Hypocrisy is twisting scripture to demand one standard of Islam while failing to meet it yourself.

2️⃣ Revelation 22:13 “I am the First and the Last”
Your desperation is showing. That verse is from Revelation, a book written decades after Jesus by an anonymous author — not Jesus speaking directly. Worse, Revelation is a dream/vision, not a transcript. You want “unambiguous” words? Then stop dragging symbolic apocalyptic passages into the discussion. The challenge remains: show me Jesus, with his own mouth, saying “I am God, worship me.” Revelation is not Jesus speaking in the flesh. Try again.

3️⃣ The moon-splitting mockery
Your “scientific objection” collapses instantly. You accept the virgin birth, water turned to wine, resurrection — none of which were “globally observed” or scientifically recorded — yet you sneer at the moon splitting. Hypocrisy exposed. Furthermore, ancient Indian and Yemeni records exist describing unusual lunar events, while your “stargazing civilizations” failed to record even an eclipse in detail for centuries. Your standard is inconsistent: if miracles must be global, then your gospel miracles are automatically false by your own measure.

4️⃣ On Makkah’s existence
Laughable. The existence of Makkah as an ancient city is supported by archaeological evidence, trade records, and even Greco-Roman references to the Arabian trade routes that passed through it. Pre-Islamic poetry and inscriptions also confirm it. Meanwhile, you cannot produce one shred of contemporary evidence that Jesus ever called himself God — not a single line of Aramaic writing, not one firsthand source. Christianity rests on hearsay decades later; Islam rests on preserved revelation and historical continuity.

Bottom line:
You keep dodging. You mock, but you cannot answer. You quote Revelation while refusing to give the words of Jesus himself. You demand “science” for Islam’s miracles while blind to the unscientific claims of your own book. You question Makkah while your own faith lacks proof of Jesus writing anything or explicitly claiming divinity.

So here’s the challenge once more: Quote Jesus, directly, saying: “I am God, worship me.” If you cannot, then admit what is already obvious: Christianity survives on assumption, patchwork theology, and desperate deflection.

😂😂😂I haven't laughed like this in a while, waking up to see this is really funny. I didn't ask for where an Angel🤧 named him “Messiah“, I asked for where Isa by himself called himself “Messiah“😅—Your circumlocution is just rather unnecessary! I know we both know there's none! I do not believe some ’ear’ known to be writing hearsays and fairy tales🤕. John, by the way, is an established apostle of Jesus that had first hand relation with him😮‍💨and not some camel riding 6th century dude🤕—with ’revelation’.

It's so hypocritical that you doubt the ’revelation or vision’ given to John but rather uphold one given to your prophet without scrutiny 😂. John didn't become ’suicidal’ neither did he run cowering to any spouse after an encounter with ’an angel’— John didn't rely on half-baked contrivance also from a figure named, ’waraqa’.😅I will rather believe John than your prophet!

As a matter fact, I have shown your hypocrisy 😅. You have exactly shown double standard. From demanding an unequivocal statement about Jesus saying, “I am God“ yet you can't provide one where he said, “he was the messiah😂“, to disregarding the revelation of John with sentiments, “it came decades after😂“—I wonder how long your prophet’s own came after🤧—but somehow upholding one that came over [b]600[/b]years later🤷.

This part is comedy gold🤣, he compared walking on water to a global event😳. I can walk on the water in my swimming pool, it doesn't affect anyone for it's a localized event 🤣 but the same can't be said for the moon—a global object. My, dear...you can do better.

Kindly post the ancient ’Indian and Yemeni sources’ 🤣 that described unusual lunar events to the extent that the moon was split🤷; why with the unnecessary lies? This position of yours is indefensible! You can't wriggle your way out from the farrago of absurdities staring at you logically! No stargazing civilization wrote it down, no tidal data was found yet you appeal to unusual lunar activity 🤣. The extent you will go to, you even appealed to hypocrisy... Wonderful, but unlike yours all the ’miracles’ you appeal to are localized events, they do not have any substantial global effect! In what way did I assert that miracles must be global😂, this straw is wonderful. The moment your prophet mentioned his miracle claim against the moon —it became global! That's your conundrum, not mine!

I just rolled on the floor reading this 😂— With boldness of heart you mentioned this🤷.Anyone with a phone can confirm that your city doesn't have a historical context until way after! Historically, it's blank. Which begs the question, since it's paramount or necessary that such a city must exist [1] to support your prophet's claim and [2] to ensure Allah's uncreated word is true😂! So far, there's none. We have list of the names of kings of little cities around that region that we can even reconstruct the full genealogy of them but yet we find none for your city! Major ’neighbouring’ civilizations(Assyrians, Israel, Babylon, sumerians, Akkadians etc) as well didn't deem it fit to mention it as well🤨. The Greek and Roman sources you allude don't record of it😂. In the historical merchants route map, there is no city like that🤕. I could write a thesis about this. Infact, I don't need to, any one can verify! Geologically speaking it's even difficult to settle there because of the simple ancient axiom, “where there is no water there is no thriving civilization“.

You have no cause, if you press this more. I will give myriads of academic sources that are contrary to your claim! The closest city that can aid you is ’Petra’ and this has lots of theological implications—Did Allah get the place of his divine revelation wrong?... God forbid, I stand with Allah, Let all men be liars! Even the byzantine-Arab chronicles mention, places it in mesopotamia 🤕, Ptolemy also got it wrong as well(as he was referring to Macoraba).
So your ’extraordinary claim’ requires ’extraordinary evidence’🤷. As at now, there's none! I stand with Allah! Let all men be liars!

Gabrielshow24:
😂😂😂I haven't laughed like this in a while, waking up to see this is really funny. I didn't ask for where an Angel🤧 named him “Messiah“, I asked for where Isa by himself called himself “Messiah“😅—Your circumlocution is just rather unnecessary! I know we both know there's none! I do not believe some ’ear’ known to be writing hearsays and fairy tales🤕. John, by the way, is an established apostle of Jesus that had first hand relation with him😮‍💨and not some camel riding 6th century dude🤕—with ’revelation’.

It's so hypocritical that you doubt the ’revelation or vision’ given to John but rather uphold one given to your prophet without scrutiny 😂. John didn't become ’suicidal’ neither did he run cowering to any spouse after an encounter with ’an angel’— John didn't rely on half-baked contrivance also from a figure named, ’waraqa’.😅I will rather believe John than your prophet!

As a matter fact, I have shown your hypocrisy 😅. You have exactly shown double standard. From demanding an unequivocal statement about Jesus saying, “I am God“ yet you can't provide one where he said, “he was the messiah😂“, to disregarding the revelation of John with sentiments, “it came decades after😂“—I wonder how long your prophet’s own came after🤧—but somehow upholding one that came over [b]600[/b]years later🤷.

This part is comedy gold🤣, he compared walking on water to a global event😳. I can walk on the water in my swimming pool, it doesn't affect anyone for it's a localized event 🤣 but the same can't be said for the moon—a global object. My, dear...you can do better.

Kindly post the ancient ’Indian and Yemeni sources’ 🤣 that described unusual lunar events to the extent that the moon was split🤷; why with the unnecessary lies? This position of yours is indefensible! You can't wriggle your way out from the farrago of absurdities staring at you logically! No stargazing civilization wrote it down, no tidal data was found yet you appeal to unusual lunar activity 🤣. The extent you will go to, you even appealed to hypocrisy... Wonderful, but unlike yours all the ’miracles’ you appeal to are localized events, they do not have any substantial global effect! In what way did I assert that miracles must be global😂, this straw is wonderful. The moment your prophet mentioned his miracle claim against the moon —it became global! That's your conundrum, not mine!

I just rolled on the floor reading this 😂— With boldness of heart you mentioned this🤷.Anyone with a phone can confirm that your city doesn't have a historical context until way after! Historically, it's blank. Which begs the question, since it's paramount or necessary that such a city must exist [1] to support your prophet's claim and [2] to ensure Allah's uncreated word is true😂! So far, there's none. We have list of the names of kings of little cities around that region that we can even reconstruct the full genealogy of them but yet we find none for your city! Major ’neighbouring’ civilizations(Assyrians, Israel, Babylon, sumerians, Akkadians etc) as well didn't deem it fit to mention it as well🤨. The Greek and Roman sources you allude don't record of it😂. In the historical merchants route map, there is no city like that🤕. I could write a thesis about this. Infact, I don't need to, any one can verify! Geologically speaking it's even difficult to settle there because of the simple ancient axiom, “where there is no water there is no thriving civilization“.

You have no cause, if you press this more. I will give myriads of academic sources that are contrary to your claim! The closest city that can aid you is ’Petra’ and this has lots of theological implications—Did Allah get the place of his divine revelation wrong?... God forbid, I stand with Allah, Let all men be liars! Even the byzantine-Arab chronicles mention, places it in mesopotamia 🤕, Ptolemy also got it wrong as well(as he was referring to Macoraba).
So your ’extraordinary claim’ requires ’extraordinary evidence’🤷. As at now, there's none! I stand with Allah! Let all men be liars!

1. You laugh because you have no answer. The challenge remains untouched: Jesus never said “I am God, worship me.” The fact that you keep dodging this shows your faith rests not on the words of Jesus, but on church inventions centuries later. Mockery is not evidence.

2. You demand Jesus to personally call himself “Messiah” while your own scriptures admit he did (John 4:25–26, Mark 8:29). The Qur’an affirms it. The Jews never accused him of lying about being Messiah, only of blasphemy when others exaggerated his status. Your “denial” collapses under both Bible and Qur’an.

3. Your entire Christianity is built on anonymous visions and dreams — Revelation is literally a dream, not an eyewitness account. Yet you mock Qur’anic revelation, which was preserved verbatim and witnessed by a living community. That is not hypocrisy on my part — it is exposing yours. If John’s dream is your “evidence,” then Christianity stands on hallucinations.

4. Qur’an was not revealed “600 years later” — that is your distortion. It was revealed to Muhammad ﷺ in the 7th century, but it corrected your corrupt scripture, just as every prophet corrected the errors of those before him. By your logic, Malachi could not correct Moses, nor Jesus correct the Pharisees. You expose ignorance of revelation.

5. You sneer at the splitting of the moon as a “global event,” but your own miracles — resurrection, raising the dead, virgin birth — are equally global in implication. If you require NASA-style documentation for Islam, then provide Roman, Greek, or Jewish documentation for Jesus walking on water, resurrecting, or feeding thousands. You have none. By your standard, Christianity self-destructs.

6. The Indian and Yemeni records exist, and the fact that you dismiss them without reading only proves your arrogance. Ancient historians missed countless natural events, including eclipses, earthquakes, and comets — but you suddenly demand them to record every miracle Muhammad ﷺ performed. Double standard exposed.

7. Your thesis on Makkah is built on ignorance. Even Ptolemy (2nd century) mentions Macoraba — identified by leading historians as Makkah. Pre-Islamic Arab poetry and inscriptions prove its existence. Caravans passed through it as part of the spice and incense trade.

8. Your “water = civilization” claim is childish. Civilizations like Petra and Palmyra thrived on trade, not rivers. Makkah’s Zamzam well is historically attested. Trade centers do not need rivers when caravans sustain them. Your claim reveals poor grasp of history and geography.

9. The Qur’an describes Makkah as a barren valley — precisely what you mocked. Your attack actually confirms the Qur’an’s accuracy. Unlike your Bible’s contradictions, Islam’s history aligns with its scripture.

Bottom Line

You hide behind mockery, but facts remain:

Jesus never said “I am God, worship me.”

You rely on dreams and hearsay, not Jesus’ words.

You demand “global” proof for Islamic miracles, but none exists for Christian miracles.

You deny Makkah, yet historical sources and trade records confirm it.

Your entire response is noise — sarcasm in place of substance. You can laugh, but laughter is not evidence. Islam stands on preserved revelation and history; Christianity stands on silence where it matters most.

JimRohn:
1. You laugh because you have no answer. The challenge remains untouched: Jesus never said “I am God, worship me.” The fact that you keep dodging this shows your faith rests not on the words of Jesus, but on church inventions centuries later. Mockery is not evidence.

2. You demand Jesus to personally call himself “Messiah” while your own scriptures admit he did (John 4:25–26, Mark 8:29). The Qur’an affirms it. The Jews never accused him of lying about being Messiah, only of blasphemy when others exaggerated his status. Your “denial” collapses under both Bible and Qur’an.

3. Your entire Christianity is built on anonymous visions and dreams — Revelation is literally a dream, not an eyewitness account. Yet you mock Qur’anic revelation, which was preserved verbatim and witnessed by a living community. That is not hypocrisy on my part — it is exposing yours. If John’s dream is your “evidence,” then Christianity stands on hallucinations.

4. Qur’an was not revealed “600 years later” — that is your distortion. It was revealed to Muhammad ﷺ in the 7th century, but it corrected your corrupt scripture, just as every prophet corrected the errors of those before him. By your logic, Malachi could not correct Moses, nor Jesus correct the Pharisees. You expose ignorance of revelation.

5. You sneer at the splitting of the moon as a “global event,” but your own miracles — resurrection, raising the dead, virgin birth — are equally global in implication. If you require NASA-style documentation for Islam, then provide Roman, Greek, or Jewish documentation for Jesus walking on water, resurrecting, or feeding thousands. You have none. By your standard, Christianity self-destructs.

6. The Indian and Yemeni records exist, and the fact that you dismiss them without reading only proves your arrogance. Ancient historians missed countless natural events, including eclipses, earthquakes, and comets — but you suddenly demand them to record every miracle Muhammad ﷺ performed. Double standard exposed.

7. Your thesis on Makkah is built on ignorance. Even Ptolemy (2nd century) mentions Macoraba — identified by leading historians as Makkah. Pre-Islamic Arab poetry and inscriptions prove its existence. Caravans passed through it as part of the spice and incense trade.

8. Your “water = civilization” claim is childish. Civilizations like Petra and Palmyra thrived on trade, not rivers. Makkah’s Zamzam well is historically attested. Trade centers do not need rivers when caravans sustain them. Your claim reveals poor grasp of history and geography.

9. The Qur’an describes Makkah as a barren valley — precisely what you mocked. Your attack actually confirms the Qur’an’s accuracy. Unlike your Bible’s contradictions, Islam’s history aligns with its scripture.

Bottom Line

You hide behind mockery, but facts remain:

Jesus never said “I am God, worship me.”

You rely on dreams and hearsay, not Jesus’ words.

You demand “global” proof for Islamic miracles, but none exists for Christian miracles.

You deny Makkah, yet historical sources and trade records confirm it.

Your entire response is noise — sarcasm in place of substance. You can laugh, but laughter is not evidence. Islam stands on preserved revelation and history; Christianity stands on silence where it matters most.

The Qur.. affirms scriptures it deemed corrupt🤣. I didn't ask for all these mental gymnastics, I asked for his own acknowledgement of his title in your book 🥱. Summary, your don't have 🤣. Stop wasting my time, you should have said that clearly.

I have plenty of verses where Jesus connote that was God but you will call them corrupt, I am just here to reflect your logic back at you. So far, I am just getting started. You have been squirming 🥱, I know it's not easy defending lies but that's your conundrum not mine. You can't deny of me what you can't provide yourself. You can't ask me to provide an unequivocal statement about his Godship when you don't have one about his Messiahship🤣.

This is part of the Islamic dilemma 😅, were your almighty book, the uncreated book of Allah, confirms a ’corrupt book’. I didn't even do much, you brought it up your self; now, I will use it😁. How can your book affirm that which is corrupt? You claim your book ’affirms it’, so that automatically means that your Quran shows unequivocally ’Jesus calling himself messiah’🤷— Yet several lines later you deny the book as corrupt😅. Is it corrupt or not? If it's corrupt, why did your prophet affirm a corrupt book? —perhaps his ignorance caused this.

Christianity is not built on dreams, technically your religion is built on a man's imagination—The difference is clear, 7up🤷. We have clear books of those that interacted with Jesus and not some dude coming hundreds of years later 😮‍💨. All ’affirmed’ he was the Son of God and his divinity equal to God's! His Divine side warranted his title Lord, Alpha and Omega, Good shepherd among the rest😅 but I suppose since your prophet unwittingly ’affirmed’ this! —ignorance is bliss, by the way—that he put himself in a conundrum, Dare I say a dilemma! The dilemma will continue as long as Islam ’continues’; I do remember Allah correcting the Jews that they were selective of the book🤔, choosing this part, rejecting other parts. This prompted Allah's firm censure that they must take the ’whole’ Torah 🤔—the same Torah available today by the way—but yet we find you and your crew commiting the very same thing by ’picking and choosing’ ’what's corrupt’ and what's not? 😅 The Quran wasn't preserved verbatim🤣—this is a lie. I remember various instances of some your scribes such as Ubay speaking the words of Allah👀; the other scribe that exclaimed ’Allah is the best of creators’ and your prophet said it was revealed also😅, another case of the scribe that asked your prophet ’which should I write? ’ and your prophet replied, ’anyone you choose for it was revealed both ways’🤣.

Don't even get me started on the diacritical marks, which I can use to change the meanings and words of the Quran😁. If I want, I can use them to prove that Jesus is a ’knowledge of the hour’ and I can also use them to prove that he is a sign of the hour, and I can also use it to assert that is the ’knower of the hour’—Do you see where I am getting at with this? There are plethora of consonantal ’words’ that the addition of ’vowels’ changes its meaning entirely😅. You can deceive others but you can't deceive me. Don't even get me started on the 30+ variants of the Quran, which must have probably occured due to the companions disputation among themselves about variances and your prophet affirmed that it was revealed in those variances😮‍💨—I wonder which variant is the one on the heavenly tablet🥱. The chief scribe of your prophet doubted after being tasked to reconcile your prophet's words, it took your prophet ’hitting him’ on the chest to clear his doubts😅.

“correction is different from contradiction“🥱. What your prophet did contradicted but scriptures🤕,a big conundrum! There's no logical reconciliation nor gymnastics that can help you. It will result in a dilemma 😅.Using the Torah alone, your prophet broke several laws, one of which you guys still do till today —’kissing of the black stone’. This refutation of yours is mute🥱, scripture align not contradict one another 🤕

🥱The moon is a global object, the rest are localized😅. I don't need AI to know, that ’exrraoridinary claim requires extraordinary proof’. The one of the moon has global implications, any of those civilizations depend on such 😅. You can't split a global object like the moon and expect no global effects 🥱! Serenade me with something else🤧.

I don't expect them to record😅 every miracle the prophet did, because infact he never did any! Also, you sure can't miss such a global event🤔 except if it was a ’sharingan’ effected one. Like you said, it only exposes your double standard 😅.

Macoraba refers to Moka or Al-makrab, except if you have river named ’bertius’ flowing around🥱. Your scholars have been trying for years to gain some recognition for a city that doesn't need such effort because it has been a pilgrimage destination since the time of ’abraham’.🥱 Serenade me, with another lie😮‍💨.

Yes, it's not all the time but most of all thriving destinations had the constraints of ’water’. Please, Serenade me with more lies😁. Petra was the original city not that one👀.

A barren land that needed aqueducts to survive 😮‍💨, yet you want us to believe that there was a settlement there when no aqueducts were built as at that period🥱, woah...your prophet had such a great imagination 😅. Not only did he pray in a non-existent mosque, he also dwelt and lived in a non-existent city.
I stand with Allah, let Allah be true and others be liars!

Gabrielshow24:
The Qur.. affirms scriptures it deemed corrupt🤣. I didn't ask for all these mental gymnastics, I asked for his own acknowledgement of his title in your book 🥱. Summary, your don't have 🤣. Stop wasting my time, you should have said that clearly.

I have plenty of verses where Jesus connote that was God but you will call them corrupt, I am just here to reflect your logic back at you. So far, I am just getting started. You have been squirming 🥱, I know it's not easy defending lies but that's your conundrum not mine. You can't deny of me what you can't provide yourself. You can't ask me to provide an unequivocal statement about his Godship when you don't have one about his Messiahship🤣.

This is part of the Islamic dilemma 😅, were your almighty book, the uncreated book of Allah, confirms a ’corrupt book’. I didn't even do much, you brought it up your self; now, I will use it😁. How can your book affirm that which is corrupt? You claim your book ’affirms it’, so that automatically means that your Quran shows unequivocally ’Jesus calling himself messiah’🤷— Yet several lines later you deny the book as corrupt😅. Is it corrupt or not? If it's corrupt, why did your prophet affirm a corrupt book? —perhaps his ignorance caused this.

Christianity is not built on dreams, technically your religion is built on a man's imagination—The difference is clear, 7up🤷. We have clear books of those that interacted with Jesus and not some dude coming hundreds of years later 😮‍💨. All ’affirmed’ he was the Son of God and his divinity equal to God's! His Divine side warranted his title Lord, Alpha and Omega, Good shepherd among the rest😅 but I suppose since your prophet unwittingly ’affirmed’ this! —ignorance is bliss, by the way—that he put himself in a conundrum, Dare I say a dilemma! The dilemma will continue as long as Islam ’continues’; I do remember Allah correcting the Jews that they were selective of the book🤔, choosing this part, rejecting other parts. This prompted Allah's firm censure that they must take the ’whole’ Torah 🤔—the same Torah available today by the way—but yet we find you and your crew commiting the very same thing by ’picking and choosing’ ’what's corrupt’ and what's not? 😅 The Quran wasn't preserved verbatim🤣—this is a lie. I remember various instances of some your scribes such as Ubay speaking the words of Allah👀; the other scribe that exclaimed ’Allah is the best of creators’ and your prophet said it was revealed also😅, another case of the scribe that asked your prophet ’which should I write? ’ and your prophet replied, ’anyone you choose for it was revealed both ways’🤣.

Don't even get me started on the diacritical marks, which I can use to change the meanings and words of the Quran😁. If I want, I can use them to prove that Jesus is a ’knowledge of the hour’ and I can also use them to prove that he is a sign of the hour, and I can also use it to assert that is the ’knower of the hour’—Do you see where I am getting at with this? There are plethora of consonantal ’words’ that the addition of ’vowels’ changes its meaning entirely😅. You can deceive others but you can't deceive me. Don't even get me started on the 30+ variants of the Quran, which must have probably occured due to the companions disputation among themselves about variances and your prophet affirmed that it was revealed in those variances😮‍💨—I wonder which variant is the one on the heavenly tablet🥱. The chief scribe of your prophet doubted after being tasked to reconcile your prophet's words, it took your prophet ’hitting him’ on the chest to clear his doubts😅.

“correction is different from contradiction“🥱. What your prophet did contradicted but scriptures🤕,a big conundrum! There's no logical reconciliation nor gymnastics that can help you. It will result in a dilemma 😅.Using the Torah alone, your prophet broke several laws, one of which you guys still do till today —’kissing of the black stone’. This refutation of yours is mute🥱, scripture align not contradict one another 🤕

🥱The moon is a global object, the rest are localized😅. I don't need AI to know, that ’exrraoridinary claim requires extraordinary proof’. The one of the moon has global implications, any of those civilizations depend on such 😅. You can't split a global object like the moon and expect no global effects 🥱! Serenade me with something else🤧.

I don't expect them to record😅 every miracle the prophet did, because infact he never did any! Also, you sure can't miss such a global event🤔 except if it was a ’sharingan’ effected one. Like you said, it only exposes your double standard 😅.

Macoraba refers to Moka or Al-makrab, except if you have river named ’bertius’ flowing around🥱. Your scholars have been trying for years to gain some recognition for a city that doesn't need such effort because it has been a pilgrimage destination since the time of ’abraham’.🥱 Serenade me, with another lie😮‍💨.

Yes, it's not all the time but most of all thriving destinations had the constraints of ’water’. Please, Serenade me with more lies😁. Petra was the original city not that one👀.

A barren land that needed aqueducts to survive 😮‍💨, yet you want us to believe that there was a settlement there when no aqueducts were built as at that period🥱, woah...your prophet had such a great imagination 😅. Not only did he pray in a non-existent mosque, he also dwelt and lived in a non-existent city.
I stand with Allah, let Allah be true and others be liars!

1️⃣ Dodging Again.
You still cannot bring a single verse where Jesus says: “I am God, worship me.” Instead, you throw emojis and noise. Your own Bible — which you claim is “uncorrupt” — lacks the very foundation of your faith. You are exposed. Laughter is not evidence; it is an admission of defeat.

2️⃣ Messiah Acknowledgement.
You lie outright. Jesus in your own Bible acknowledges his Messiahship: John 4:25–26 and Mark 8:29. The Qur’an affirms it too. The Jews never accused him of lying about being Messiah — only about blasphemy when Christians later exaggerated him into God. Your attempt to deny this is simply desperation.

3️⃣ Your “Corrupt Scriptures” Dilemma.
The Qur’an does not “affirm corruption.” It affirms the original revelations given to Moses and Jesus — and explicitly says your priests and scribes distorted them. Affirming an original does not mean endorsing your forged copies. If you can’t distinguish between original revelation and man-made alteration, that is your ignorance, not mine.

4️⃣ Dreams vs. Revelation.
Your Christianity stands on visions, dreams, and anonymous authors. The Book of Revelation is literally a dream. Your Gospels are unsigned, second-hand hearsay. Islam stands on the verbatim revelation, memorized and transmitted by an entire community. To compare the two is laughable. Christianity is hallucination; Islam is preservation.

5️⃣ Your “Preservation” Myth.
The Qur’an’s preservation is unmatched — recited by millions word for word, letter for letter, from the time of Muhammad ﷺ until now. The variants you mock are dialectal recitations, all transmitted from the Prophet ﷺ himself, not corruption. Your Bible, on the other hand, has thousands of manuscripts contradicting each other — verses added, verses removed, entire books disputed. Your hypocrisy is staggering.

6️⃣ Scribes and Doubts.
Your attempt to weaponize narrations of scribes shows your ignorance. The Prophet ﷺ confirming multiple valid recitations shows flexibility, not corruption. Meanwhile, your Bible’s authors remain unknown, anonymous, and contradictory. Which is worse: a Prophet guiding scribes, or scribes writing books centuries later under false names?

7️⃣ Moon vs. Miracles.
You demand “global proof” for the moon splitting, but accept zero independent records for Jesus walking on water, raising Lazarus, or feeding thousands. Where are the Roman, Greek, or Jewish records for these? None. By your own standard, Christianity collapses. Hypocrisy exposed again.

8️⃣ Makkah’s Existence.
Your ignorance is appalling. Ptolemy (2nd century) mentioned Macoraba — identified by scholars as Makkah. Pre-Islamic Arab poetry, trade routes, and inscriptions confirm its existence. Your attempt to erase it is as absurd as denying Jerusalem existed.

9️⃣ Water Obsession.
Your “no river, no civilization” claim is childish. Petra, Palmyra, and countless desert settlements thrived on trade, not rivers. Makkah had Zamzam — a well known for millennia. Caravans sustained it as a trade hub. Your ignorance of Arabian history is embarrassing.

🔟 Your Blasphemous Bottom Line.
You rely on mockery because your religion collapses under logic. Let’s summarize your defeat:

Jesus never said “I am God, worship me.” You have no verse.

The Qur’an affirms original revelation, not your corrupt copies.

Your Bible rests on anonymous hearsay and dreams.

Your miracles have zero external records, yet you demand “NASA proof” for Islam.

Makkah is historically attested; you deny it out of desperation.

Christianity stands on distortion, contradiction, and mockery. Islam stands on preserved revelation, historical reality, and unbroken testimony. Your emojis don’t erase your bankruptcy.

Conclusion:
You keep laughing because it is easier than answering. But laughter is not evidence. Mockery is not proof. Islam’s truth stands unshaken, while your foundation crumbles under its own contradictions.

JimRohn:
1️⃣ Dodging Again.
You still cannot bring a single verse where Jesus says: “I am God, worship me.” Instead, you throw emojis and noise. Your own Bible — which you claim is “uncorrupt” — lacks the very foundation of your faith. You are exposed. Laughter is not evidence; it is an admission of defeat.

2️⃣ Messiah Acknowledgement.
You lie outright. Jesus in your own Bible acknowledges his Messiahship: John 4:25–26 and Mark 8:29. The Qur’an affirms it too. The Jews never accused him of lying about being Messiah — only about blasphemy when Christians later exaggerated him into God. Your attempt to deny this is simply desperation.

3️⃣ Your “Corrupt Scriptures” Dilemma.
The Qur’an does not “affirm corruption.” It affirms the original revelations given to Moses and Jesus — and explicitly says your priests and scribes distorted them. Affirming an original does not mean endorsing your forged copies. If you can’t distinguish between original revelation and man-made alteration, that is your ignorance, not mine.

4️⃣ Dreams vs. Revelation.
Your Christianity stands on visions, dreams, and anonymous authors. The Book of Revelation is literally a dream. Your Gospels are unsigned, second-hand hearsay. Islam stands on the verbatim revelation, memorized and transmitted by an entire community. To compare the two is laughable. Christianity is hallucination; Islam is preservation.

5️⃣ Your “Preservation” Myth.
The Qur’an’s preservation is unmatched — recited by millions word for word, letter for letter, from the time of Muhammad ﷺ until now. The variants you mock are dialectal recitations, all transmitted from the Prophet ﷺ himself, not corruption. Your Bible, on the other hand, has thousands of manuscripts contradicting each other — verses added, verses removed, entire books disputed. Your hypocrisy is staggering.

6️⃣ Scribes and Doubts.
Your attempt to weaponize narrations of scribes shows your ignorance. The Prophet ﷺ confirming multiple valid recitations shows flexibility, not corruption. Meanwhile, your Bible’s authors remain unknown, anonymous, and contradictory. Which is worse: a Prophet guiding scribes, or scribes writing books centuries later under false names?

7️⃣ Moon vs. Miracles.
You demand “global proof” for the moon splitting, but accept zero independent records for Jesus walking on water, raising Lazarus, or feeding thousands. Where are the Roman, Greek, or Jewish records for these? None. By your own standard, Christianity collapses. Hypocrisy exposed again.

8️⃣ Makkah’s Existence.
Your ignorance is appalling. Ptolemy (2nd century) mentioned Macoraba — identified by scholars as Makkah. Pre-Islamic Arab poetry, trade routes, and inscriptions confirm its existence. Your attempt to erase it is as absurd as denying Jerusalem existed.

9️⃣ Water Obsession.
Your “no river, no civilization” claim is childish. Petra, Palmyra, and countless desert settlements thrived on trade, not rivers. Makkah had Zamzam — a well known for millennia. Caravans sustained it as a trade hub. Your ignorance of Arabian history is embarrassing.

🔟 Your Blasphemous Bottom Line.
You rely on mockery because your religion collapses under logic. Let’s summarize your defeat:

Jesus never said “I am God, worship me.” You have no verse.

The Qur’an affirms original revelation, not your corrupt copies.

Your Bible rests on anonymous hearsay and dreams.

Your miracles have zero external records, yet you demand “NASA proof” for Islam.

Makkah is historically attested; you deny it out of desperation.

Christianity stands on distortion, contradiction, and mockery. Islam stands on preserved revelation, historical reality, and unbroken testimony. Your emojis don’t erase your bankruptcy.

Conclusion:
You keep laughing because it is easier than answering. But laughter is not evidence. Mockery is not proof. Islam’s truth stands unshaken, while your foundation crumbles under its own contradictions.

This is funny, I didn't ask for all this circumlocution as I asked from you a single surah where Jesus states unequivocally that he was the Messiah 🤨,I didn't ask whether or not your book affirms mine. Since, you have decided to affirm mine, do you affirm matt11:27, mat16:27 and mat28:18?👀I guess not😂.

“to the humble reader, the logic is simple. My good friend here wants an unequivocal statement from Jesus🤔—the implication of this is simple, “Jesus must say it before it becomes true“. I decided to flip his logic back at him😂. I demanded that he provides a single surah where Jesus said “he was the messiah“ and now as an addendum I have included that he should provide a surah where “Mohammed calls himself the ’seal of prophets’“—He can't! My good friend here, in his wisdom decided to use some weird law of transitivity 😅 to show that his Quran provides a surah where Jesus affirms himself the messiah 🥱—This fails miserably because now by his own admission he has included more affirmations of Jesus such as Matthew 11:27, matthew16:27, math 28:18😂. Definitely, he will rescind his position 😂. In his bid, to further this ’logic’ he has put himself in a precarious position. He wanted to prove that ’self affirmation is the only criterion for truth’🤨. This automatically throws the Quran's angelic affirmation of Jesus under the bus along with his prophet's affirmation, as the ’seal of prophets’—this was not said by him😁.

You can see the extent they will go to, with such brazen confidence, I haven't even started with him just solely reflecting his logic back at him 😔“

Every other thing you wrote is irrelevant and baseless. You have no ground than to be appealing to hypocrisy 👀, let me continue taking your other glib points one after the other.

This third one is funny😂, your prophet put himself into a pickle because as at his own time, the Torah existed; infact he placed it on ’a judgement seat’ when some Jews came to meet him for judgement 😅. there are other narratives as well in the hadith that shows the coexistence of the injeel with your prophet 😂. As a matter of fact, the Torah from his time up till now is the same🤨; now you have to prove that this is false but unfortunately for you, you can't! The injeel is the same as it was during his time. You should also understand that both the injeel and the Torah must necessarily exist since they have been written in the heavenly tablet🤕, and they are uncreated words of Allah, before the foundation of the world👀. You have to show us, since you claim that our Torah and injil is false, the original ones🤕; which by the way not one of you has done so far 😔. From your own Quran, it states that ’none can change Allah's words’ so I beg to differ! If you push this narrative🤨 then you make Allah fallible.

Islam is not preservation, your book is filled with apocryphal works such as Syriac gospel(gospel of Barnabas), infancy Gospel of Thomas, collection of Alexander romances to say the least. Most notably, according to your own hadiths, your prophet was called an ’ear’ because he wrote down every fairy tale he heard about 🥱... Pls, serenade me with more lies. Dialectical marks? 🤣 The immediate companions of your prophet fought over their variances🥱.It took the prophet saying ’it was revealed as such’ to calm things down🤕—I wonder which version is on the heavenly tablets🤔. Your Quran has 30+ variations and yet you call that ’word for word’👀. Mind you, according to your sources; ’uthman’ ’trimmed’ the other variants into one🤕—how do we know he didn't remove the correct one🤕? In short, he must have used guess work or ’head knowledge’🤣; this is what you put your salvation upon🥱. Your prophet might have ’guided’ his scribes but we all know it's hearsays—Ubay comes to mind(Allah tends to repeat whatever he opined)🤔 and that other scribe that exclaimed ’Allah is the best of creators’ and your prophet said ’it was revealed as such’😮‍💨; this scribe apostasized immediately. 😔

Jesus walking on water is a localized event🥱 and not a global one—You should have understood this😮‍💨. The moon is a global object👀. Localized events warrant localized observers that's a corollary but global events warrants global observers 👀—This you can't change, if indeed he splitted the moon then someone would have written about it🧐! Apart from this, we would have detected such effects ’scientifically’—The moon is tied with the tides😁. If you split the moon then you affect the tides, another corollary; thus, since there are no evidences for such then the moon didn't split. It's an hallucination👀 which is also confirmed by the immediate reaction of the observers🤧. The last option for you will be asserting it's a play on words, with the phrase ’seen on both sides’ key👀—Actually, global objects can be seen on both sides of a mountain 😂. All in all, there was no miracle🙃

Macoraba which you so desperately want to tie to your city is false. The features described by Ptolemy doesn't fit such. Present skeptics have concluded on this standpoint. It's only among your oriental scholarship that there's an agreement 😂. Other contemporary geographers of Ptolemy didn't record of such. Discrepancies such as geography and linguistics affirms it can't be ’your city’🥱. Continue serenading me with more lies

Stop with the lies, petra relied on water😂. I wonder how they supported themselves in such an arid region without water! 🥱It was the advent of sophisticated water systems that led to the expansion of the Nabataeans. A barren land that needed aqueducts to survive 😮‍💨, yet you want us to believe that there was a settlement there when no aqueducts were built as at that period🥱. The trade center you allude to needed water to thrive😂. Pls, say something else 🥱.

Gabrielshow24:
Well, you still failed miserably. I asked for a single verse where Isa said by himself that he was the messiah 😮‍💨. You can't fool me, I am well familiar with your books.

My laughter is not an admission of defeat, which seems so early for one like you to say given the fact that you do not know me, neither have we interacted before. I have made low a lot of your brothers and their ’doctrines’. I am one of the prime recipients for suspension along with TenQ to the extent I don't bother going to your section nor even mentioning the name of your prophet —to show you how bad it is.

I do not hide behind emojis, that's my way. I use emojis to portray my current state, whether you see it as ’hiding’ that's your business. I will still use emojis when in a conversation with any one and I hope your logic is strong, for you do not know what you want to face 🙃.

You should know I can't be deceived by Allah's Mangekyo Sharingan that he cast on the bewildered observers of your prophet's ’supposed splitting of the moon’. You must do better.

I will advise you ahead of time to start getting evidence for your holy city, for your prophet existing within the said city at the same time you purported him to have existed.

This JimRohn has disciplined and disgraced you.

DeepSight:
This JimRohn has disciplined and disgraced you.

🥱I beg to differ. I am solely reflecting his logic back at him.

JimRohn:
Thank you for citing John 20:17 — it actually supports the Islamic position.

1. On John 20:17
Jesus says, “I ascend to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.” If Jesus has a God, he is not God. The verse distinguishes between Jesus and God and places both Jesus and the disciples under the same Lord.

2. On calling the disciples “brothers”
When Jesus calls believers his “brothers,” it emphasizes his shared humanity, not divinity. Scripture itself explains this: “He is not ashamed to call them brothers” and “he had to be made like his brothers in every respect” (Hebrews 2:11, 2:17). That God does not call humans His “brothers” is precisely because God is utterly unlike creation. Jesus calling humans “brothers” fits a servant-messenger of God, not God Himself.

3. Consistent New Testament pattern
Multiple passages echo John 20:17 by showing Jesus worshipping and submitting to God:

“My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” (Matthew 27:46; Mark 15:34)

“Therefore God, your God, has anointed you.” (Hebrews 1:9)

“The name of my God … the city of my God … which comes down out of heaven from my God.” (Revelation 3:12)
A being who repeatedly refers to “my God” is not the Almighty; he is a servant of the Almighty.

4. About “pure worship” and “fruits”
“Pure worship” must be defined by clear monotheism and the practice of the prophets: direct prayer to the One God alone, no partners, no intermediaries, no images. Organizational uniformity or claimed “fruits” are not proof of truth—many groups show discipline and growth while teaching contradictory doctrines. The sure test is theological clarity and textual integrity. Islam meets that test: uncompromised Tawhid and a preserved revelation, the Qur’an.

Bottom line:
Your own citation (John 20:17) aligns with Islam: Jesus is a prophet and Messiah who worships God. The side of truth is the side that worships the God of Jesus—not Jesus as God. Return to the pure monotheism every prophet proclaimed:

👆 “Say: He is Allah, the One; Allah, the Absolute. He neither begets nor is begotten; and there is none comparable to Him.” (Qur’an 112:1–4)

Apart from Supreme Being the title "GOD" could be defined in many ways.

In the Bible Jesus is not the first person to be conferred with that title but when readers has been indoctrinated they will look away from reasonableness.

All what trinitarians keep pointing to is the Bible book of John chapter 1:1 which reads:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

Instead of reasonably using the lower case to distinguish between the two persons mentioned here trinitarians will blindly use the same case for both persons knowing fully well that this verse is talking about two different persons.

The first servant of God to be conferred with that title is Moses this is what God said about Moses:

“See, I have made you like God to Pharʹaoh, and Aaron your own brother will become your prophet" Exodus 7:1

According to this verse Moses will act as God in Egypt because whatever he says will happen as he utters it but instead of Moses speaking it's his brother Aaron who will be speaking while Moses stands right there before Pharaoh.

Later God told the Moses :

" I will raise up for them from the midst of their brothers a prophet like you, and I will put my words in his mouth, and he will speak to them all that I command him" Deuteronomy 18:18

Peter the apostle told Christians in the first century that Jesus is the prophet who has come in the manner of Moses! Act 3:22

So the title GOD conferred on Jesus doesn't mean he is the Almighty God rather it means this is the prophet God promised to send in the manner of Moses.

In another Bible verse it's written regarding Jesus:

Jehovah declared to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet" Psalms 110:1

Here is how it was translated in the New World Translation Jehovah's Witnesses Bible but in other versions where God's unique name has been removed this is what you will see:


The Lord says to my lord: “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.” ‭Psalms 110:1 NIV‬

Does this confused the disciples of Jesus?

The answer is NO!

WHY?

Because Peter explained that Jesus is the one God spoke to after his return to heaven:


For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said, “ ‘The Lord said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.” ’‭Acts 2:34-35 NIV‬

So Peter made it clear to his fellow disciples that Jesus is not God Almighty rather he is the prophet who is to come in the manner of Moses!

DeepSight:
This JimRohn has disciplined and disgraced you.

What did you mean by this?

I don't know why Exodus 7:1 the elohim there is referred to as god in english translation when it could have clearly being translated as angel

like Psalm 8:5 the term elohim is translated as angels

Hebrews call angels physical beings that represent the one true God, calls them sons of God.

Moses being made an angel to pharaoh would have been a preferable translation of that verse

MaxInDHouse:
Apart from Supreme Being the title "GOD" could be defined in many ways.

Who defined it in MANY WAYS?

In the Bible Jesus is not the first person to be conferred with that title but when readers has been indoctrinated they will look away from reasonableness.

So you agreed the Title conferred on Jesus Christ is "GOD". Very interesting.

But you who doesn't look away from reasonableness believe Jesus is THE ONLY BEING DIRECTLY CREATED by God and God used him to CREATE ALL OTHER THINGS.

So, how can such a being have EQUAL among ALL OTHER THINGS he was used to create?

All what trinitarians keep pointing to is the Bible book of John chapter 1:1 which reads:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

Which Trinitarians ever tell you that John 1:1 read "...and the word was a god"?

Also, the fact that you can only pick John 1:1 to claim that is the only verse Trinitarians always use to proof Jesus is God is a blatant lies.

Jesus Himself said "He had Glory with the Father before the World(creation ever happened)"

If Jesus was there before creation (time) happened, it means Jesus exists in eternity and the only being who lives in eternity is God.

Did Moses and the rest of your so called a God ever claimed to live before creation?

Not only this, Jesus demanded the same Honor given to the Father. John 5:23

According to Watchtower one of the ways you honor Jehovah is by worshipping Him.

You claimed you're the only one who obey the commandments of Jesus, why do you reject this command from Jesus?

Lastly, Apostle Paul recorded that ALL BELIEVERS together with those in Corinth pray to Jesus by CALLING ON JESUS' NAME.

"to the congregation of God that is in Corinth, to you who have been sanctified in union with Christ Jesus, called to be holy ones, together with all those everywhere who are calling on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours: - 1 Corin 1:2 NWT

How many of your so called a God people are praying to?

Not to even talk about being call Alpha and Omega, The first and the Last, The beginning and The ending, The Living one, Eternal Life e.t.c

MaxInDHouse:
Apart from Supreme Being the title "GOD" could be defined in many ways.

In the Bible Jesus is not the first person to be conferred with that title but when readers has been indoctrinated they will look away from reasonableness.

All what trinitarians keep pointing to is the Bible book of John chapter 1:1 which reads:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

Instead of reasonably using the lower case to distinguish between the two persons mentioned here trinitarians will blindly use the same case for both persons knowing fully well that this verse is talking about two different persons.

The first servant of God to be conferred with that title is Moses this is what God said about Moses:

“See, I have made you like God to Pharʹaoh, and Aaron your own brother will become your prophet" Exodus 7:1

According to this verse Moses will act as God in Egypt because whatever he says will happen as he utters it but instead of Moses speaking it's his brother Aaron who will be speaking while Moses stands right there before Pharaoh.

Later God told the Moses :

" I will raise up for them from the midst of their brothers a prophet like you, and I will put my words in his mouth, and he will speak to them all that I command him" Deuteronomy 18:18

Peter the apostle told Christians in the first century that Jesus is the prophet who has come in the manner of Moses! Act 3:22

So the title GOD conferred on Jesus doesn't mean he is the Almighty God rather it means this is the prophet God promised to send in the manner of Moses.

In another Bible verse it's written regarding Jesus:

Jehovah declared to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet" Psalms 110:1

Here is how it was translated in the New World Translation Jehovah's Witnesses Bible but in other versions where God's unique name has been removed this is what you will see:


The Lord says to my lord: “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.” ‭Psalms 110:1 NIV‬

Does this confused the disciples of Jesus?

The answer is NO!

WHY?

Because Peter explained that Jesus is the one God spoke to after his return to heaven:


[34] For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said, “ ‘The Lord said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand [35] until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.” ’‭Acts 2:34-35 NIV‬[/b]

So Peter made it clear to his fellow disciples that Jesus is not God Almighty rather he is the prophet who is to come in the manner of Moses!

Thank you for your explanation — but notice what you’ve just admitted. Your reasoning actually dismantles Trinitarian theology and affirms the Islamic position:

1️⃣ On the title “god”
You rightly showed from Exodus 7:1 that the term “god” can be used in a delegated or representational sense without meaning Almighty God. Moses was called “god” to Pharaoh, yet no one believed he was the Eternal Creator. By your own argument, when such language is used of Jesus, it must be understood in a representative sense — not as proof that he is Almighty. That is exactly what Islam has always taught: Jesus is honored, empowered, and chosen by God, but never equal to Him.

2️⃣ On the Prophet like Moses (Deut. 18:18)
You cite Deuteronomy 18:18 and Acts 3:22, where Peter says Jesus fulfills the prophecy of a prophet like Moses. But here is the problem: Moses was a law-bearing prophet, bringing a new divine law (Torah). Jesus, however, did not bring a new law but explicitly said: “Do not think I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish but to fulfill” (Matthew 5:17). He reaffirmed Mosaic law. The one who truly parallels Moses — a prophet from the brethren of Israel (the Ishmaelites) who brought a new comprehensive law — is Muhammad ﷺ.

3️⃣ On Psalm 110:1 and Acts 2
You point out that Jesus sits at the right hand of God. But to sit next to God is not to be God. Distinction proves hierarchy. The Almighty is enthroned; the servant sits at His right hand. That’s honor, not equality. Even in your own citation, the one enthroned is Jehovah, not Jesus.

4️⃣ Consistency of your conclusion
By showing that Jesus is:

A prophet like Moses,

Called “god” only in a representative sense,

Distinct from Almighty God in position and worship,

—you have already left behind Trinitarianism and landed squarely on Islamic monotheism. The Qur’an said it 600 years before church debates:

👉 “The Messiah, son of Mary, was no more than a messenger. Messengers passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They both ate food. See how We make the signs clear to them, yet see how deluded they are.” (Qur’an 5:75)

Bottom line:
You are right to reject the Trinity. But don’t stop halfway. If Jesus is truly a prophet like Moses, then the final and complete prophet — foretold by Moses and confirmed by Jesus — is Muhammad ﷺ. The truth is consistent: One God, absolute, worshipped alone, without partners.

JimRohn:
Bottom line:
You are right to reject the Trinity. But don’t stop halfway. If Jesus is truly a prophet like Moses, then the final and complete prophet — foretold by Moses and confirmed by Jesus — is Muhammad ﷺ. The truth is consistent: One God, absolute, worshipped alone, without partners.

Are you really interested in the truth or you just want to support your parent's religion?
Well Muhammad is not a prophet at all going by what a prophet is according to the Bible so let's close that chapter.

MaxInDHouse:
Are you really interested in the truth or you just want to support your parent's religion?
Well Muhammad is not a prophet at all going by what a prophet is according to the Bible so let's close that chapter.

If you were truly concerned with truth, you wouldn’t brush aside the question with, “let’s close that chapter.” Truth doesn’t get closed when it gets uncomfortable. Let’s test your claim logically and by your own Bible:

1️⃣ Definition of a Prophet
A prophet, according to the Bible, is someone who:

Speaks in the name of the One true God (Deut. 18:18),

Calls people to worship God alone (Deut. 13:1–5),

Brings guidance, law, and warning to mankind.

By this standard, Muhammad ﷺ fits perfectly. He proclaimed the God of Abraham, rejected idols, called to prayer, fasting, charity, and obedience to God. He brought a scripture (the Qur’an) that honors previous prophets and restores monotheism.

2️⃣ Your Inconsistency
You accept Moses and Jesus as prophets though their message overturned corrupt religious systems of their time. Why then is Muhammad ﷺ disqualified when he did the exact same — purging idolatry in Arabia and restoring worship to the God of Abraham? The real reason is not “biblical criteria,” but church tradition and bias.

3️⃣ Prophecy Fulfilled
Even your own scriptures point beyond Jesus:

The “prophet like Moses” who brings a new law (Deut. 18:18) — not fulfilled by Jesus (who reaffirmed Torah), but by Muhammad ﷺ.

The “Comforter / Spirit of Truth” in John 16:13 who “speaks what he hears” — describing verbal revelation, not an invisible spirit.

4️⃣ Meanwhile, Trinitarianism Collapses
You cannot defend the Trinity from your own Bible without twisting texts. Jesus prays to God, submits to God, sits beside God, calls God “my God” (John 20:17). Even your attempt to deny Muhammad ﷺ is just a diversion to hide the fact that the Trinity has no biblical foundation.

Bottom Line:
Dismissing Muhammad ﷺ doesn’t save your theology. It only exposes your double standard. If rejecting idolatry, calling to One God, and bringing revelation does not make someone a prophet — then what does? By your own Bible, Muhammad ﷺ fulfills the mark of prophethood, while the Trinity fails the test of monotheism.

I don't want you to get uncomfortable with the discussion that's why i said "let's close the chapter"
But if you really want to know the truth please count me in.
First of all we must both agree on what a prophet is not just what you defined based on your own preconceived thought.
So let's first agree on what a real prophet is.
Would you like to tour this journey with me?
Meanwhile before we proceed i will like to tell you that i was born a Muslim so it will be wise not to based anything we want to agree upon on either what both the Bible and Quran doesn't agree on.
What i mean is if we notice anything that both books didn't agree upon them we have to suspend what is written in both books and base our agreement on common sense it won't make sense demeaning any of the two books claiming one is superior when what is written doesn't go along with common sense.

JimRohn:
If you were truly concerned with truth, you wouldn’t brush aside the question with, “let’s close that chapter.” Truth doesn’t get closed when it gets uncomfortable. Let’s test your claim logically and by your own Bible:

1️⃣ Definition of a Prophet
A prophet, according to the Bible, is someone who:

Speaks in the name of the One true God (Deut. 18:18),

Calls people to worship God alone (Deut. 13:1–5),

Brings guidance, law, and warning to mankind.

By this standard, Muhammad ﷺ fits perfectly. He proclaimed the God of Abraham, rejected idols, called to prayer, fasting, charity, and obedience to God. He brought a scripture (the Qur’an) that honors previous prophets and restores monotheism.

2️⃣ Your Inconsistency
You accept Moses and Jesus as prophets though their message overturned corrupt religious systems of their time. Why then is Muhammad ﷺ disqualified when he did the exact same — purging idolatry in Arabia and restoring worship to the God of Abraham? The real reason is not “biblical criteria,” but church tradition and bias.

3️⃣ Prophecy Fulfilled
Even your own scriptures point beyond Jesus:

The “prophet like Moses” who brings a new law (Deut. 18:18) — not fulfilled by Jesus (who reaffirmed Torah), but by Muhammad ﷺ.

The “Comforter / Spirit of Truth” in John 16:13 who “speaks what he hears” — describing verbal revelation, not an invisible spirit.

4️⃣ Meanwhile, Trinitarianism Collapses
You cannot defend the Trinity from your own Bible without twisting texts. Jesus prays to God, submits to God, sits beside God, calls God “my God” (John 20:17). Even your attempt to deny Muhammad ﷺ is just a diversion to hide the fact that the Trinity has no biblical foundation.

Bottom Line:
Dismissing Muhammad ﷺ doesn’t save your theology. It only exposes your double standard. If rejecting idolatry, calling to One God, and bringing revelation does not make someone a prophet — then what does? By your own Bible, Muhammad ﷺ fulfills the mark of prophethood, while the Trinity fails the test of monotheism.

MaxInDHouse:
I don't want you to get uncomfortable with the discussion that's why i said "let's close the chapter"
But if you really want to know the truth please count me in.
First of all we must both agree on what a prophet is not just what you defined based on your own preconceived thought.
So let's first agree on what a real prophet is.
Would you like to tour this journey with me?
Meanwhile before we proceed i will like to tell you that i was born a Muslim so it will be wise not to based anything we want to agree upon on either what both the Bible and Quran doesn't agree on.
What i mean is if we notice anything that both books didn't agree upon them we have to suspend what is written in both books and base our agreement on common sense it won't make sense demeaning any of the two books claiming one is superior when what is written doesn't go along with common sense.

You’re already slipping into contradiction. On one hand, you said Muhammad ﷺ is not a prophet “according to the Bible.” On the other hand, now that I’ve shown you clear biblical standards that fit him, you suddenly want to suspend both the Bible and Qur’an and use “common sense.” That’s not consistency — that’s retreat.

1️⃣ The Bible Was Your Own Standard
It was you who invoked the Bible as the measuring stick. I simply held you to it. If Muhammad ﷺ does not meet your definition, then show me the verse that disqualifies him. If you cannot, then abandoning the Bible and running to “common sense” only proves your point had no weight to begin with.

2️⃣ Common Sense Actually Strengthens Islam
Even if we put the scriptures aside for a moment, common sense tells us:

God is One, absolute, not divided into “persons.”

A prophet is someone who restores clarity, warns against corruption, and delivers revelation.

Muhammad ﷺ accomplished this on a global scale unmatched in history.

By contrast, common sense does not accept a God who prays to Himself, dies at the hands of His creation, or requires blood sacrifice to forgive. That is theology by confusion, not by reason.

3️⃣ Your Tactic Exposes the Weakness of the Trinity
Notice something: I can defend Muhammad ﷺ using the Qur’an, the Bible, and common sense. You can only attack him by abandoning one source after another whenever it doesn’t favor you. That is exactly how Trinitarianism survives — constant shifting, never consistency.

Bottom Line:
If you want to “tour this journey,” then we need consistency. Either we measure prophets by the Bible (in which case Muhammad ﷺ qualifies), or by common sense (in which case the Trinity collapses). What you cannot do is keep changing standards every time your argument fails. Truth stands firm. Evasion shifts.

After the call of Abraham all the prophets in the Bible are descendants of Jacob (Israel)
WHY?
Because God uses prophet to guide His worshipers from generation to generation so what they are writing must correlate and in chronological order.
So since Muhammad is not a descendant of Jacob he can't be a prophet of the God of Israel.
Secondly God always pick His prophet in the midst of people who are already in tune with His messages so the message won't be strange to them. Saudi Arabia doesn't have God's laws so what exactly has Muhammad gotten to tell people who don't know the laws of Israelite God?

JimRohn:
You’re already slipping into contradiction. On one hand, you said Muhammad ﷺ is not a prophet “according to the Bible.” On the other hand, now that I’ve shown you clear biblical standards that fit him, you suddenly want to suspend both the Bible and Qur’an and use “common sense.” That’s not consistency — that’s retreat.

1️⃣ The Bible Was Your Own Standard
It was you who invoked the Bible as the measuring stick. I simply held you to it. If Muhammad ﷺ does not meet your definition, then show me the verse that disqualifies him. If you cannot, then abandoning the Bible and running to “common sense” only proves your point had no weight to begin with.

2️⃣ Common Sense Actually Strengthens Islam
Even if we put the scriptures aside for a moment, common sense tells us:

God is One, absolute, not divided into “persons.”

A prophet is someone who restores clarity, warns against corruption, and delivers revelation.

Muhammad ﷺ accomplished this on a global scale unmatched in history.

By contrast, common sense does not accept a God who prays to Himself, dies at the hands of His creation, or requires blood sacrifice to forgive. That is theology by confusion, not by reason.

3️⃣ Your Tactic Exposes the Weakness of the Trinity
Notice something: I can defend Muhammad ﷺ using the Qur’an, the Bible, and common sense. You can only attack him by abandoning one source after another whenever it doesn’t favor you. That is exactly how Trinitarianism survives — constant shifting, never consistency.

Bottom Line:
If you want to “tour this journey,” then we need consistency. Either we measure prophets by the Bible (in which case Muhammad ﷺ qualifies), or by common sense (in which case the Trinity collapses). What you cannot do is keep changing standards every time your argument fails. Truth stands firm. Evasion shifts.

MaxInDHouse:
After the call of Abraham all the prophets in the Bible are descendants of Jacob (Israel)
WHY?
Because God uses prophet to guide His worshipers from generation to generation so what they are writing must correlate and in chronological order.
So since Muhammad is not a descendant of Jacob he can't be a prophet of the God of Israel.
Secondly God always pick His prophet in the midst of people who are already in tune with His messages so the message won't be strange to them. Saudi Arabia doesn't have God's laws so what exactly has Muhammad gotten to tell people who don't know the laws of Israelite God?

You’ve just exposed the weakness of your reasoning. Let’s analyze your two points carefully:

1️⃣ “All prophets must be descendants of Jacob.”
That’s factually wrong by your own Bible.

Job was not an Israelite, yet considered a prophet (Job 1:1, James 5:11).

Melchizedek was not from Israel yet called “priest of the Most High God” (Genesis 14:18).

Balaam was not an Israelite, yet he received revelation (Numbers 22:18).
Even Jesus Himself said: “There were many widows in Israel… yet Elijah was sent to none of them, except to a widow in Zarephath in Sidon” (Luke 4:25–26). Meaning God’s guidance was never confined to Israel.

So your “Jacob-only” rule is an invention, not a biblical truth.

2️⃣ “God only sends prophets to people already in tune with His law.”
Again, false. The people of Nineveh, to whom Jonah was sent, were pagans with no knowledge of Israel’s law (Jonah 1:2). Yet God sent them a prophet, and they repented. Abraham himself was raised among idolaters (Joshua 24:2), yet God chose him and made him the patriarch of monotheism.

So history shows the opposite of your claim: God raises prophets especially in lands drowned in idolatry, to restore His worship. Arabia in the 7th century was exactly that.

3️⃣ Muhammad ﷺ Fits the Pattern Perfectly.

He came to a people steeped in idol worship, and through him, Arabia abandoned 360 idols for the One God of Abraham.

His message was not “strange,” but the same call as every prophet: “Worship God alone.” (Qur’an 21:25).

His law brought clarity, order, and guidance — fulfilling the same divine purpose as Moses’ Torah.

📌 Bottom line: Limiting God’s messengers to one ethnicity insults His sovereignty and mercy. The God of Abraham is not the God of one tribe; He is the God of all nations. Muhammad ﷺ stands as the final prophet, not because of lineage, but because of truth, guidance, and the universality of his mission.

You got me wrong!

What i said is after God chose Abraham as the man through whose descendants He (God) will reveal the way to salvation no prophet was called outside Israel.

Do you get it now?

JimRohn:
You’ve just exposed the weakness of your reasoning. Let’s analyze your two points carefully:

1️⃣ “All prophets must be descendants of Jacob.”
That’s factually wrong by your own Bible.

Job was not an Israelite, yet considered a prophet (Job 1:1, James 5:11).

Melchizedek was not from Israel yet called “priest of the Most High God” (Genesis 14:18).

Balaam was not an Israelite, yet he received revelation (Numbers 22:18).
Even Jesus Himself said: “There were many widows in Israel… yet Elijah was sent to none of them, except to a widow in Zarephath in Sidon” (Luke 4:25–26). Meaning God’s guidance was never confined to Israel.

So your “Jacob-only” rule is an invention, not a biblical truth.

2️⃣ “God only sends prophets to people already in tune with His law.”
Again, false. The people of Nineveh, to whom Jonah was sent, were pagans with no knowledge of Israel’s law (Jonah 1:2). Yet God sent them a prophet, and they repented. Abraham himself was raised among idolaters (Joshua 24:2), yet God chose him and made him the patriarch of monotheism.

So history shows the opposite of your claim: God raises prophets especially in lands drowned in idolatry, to restore His worship. Arabia in the 7th century was exactly that.

3️⃣ Muhammad ﷺ Fits the Pattern Perfectly.

He came to a people steeped in idol worship, and through him, Arabia abandoned 360 idols for the One God of Abraham.

His message was not “strange,” but the same call as every prophet: “Worship God alone.” (Qur’an 21:25).

His law brought clarity, order, and guidance — fulfilling the same divine purpose as Moses’ Torah.

📌 Bottom line: Limiting God’s messengers to one ethnicity insults His sovereignty and mercy. The God of Abraham is not the God of one tribe; He is the God of all nations. Muhammad ﷺ stands as the final prophet, not because of lineage, but because of truth, guidance, and the universality of his mission.

MaxInDHouse:
You got me wrong!

What i said is after God chose Abraham as the man through whose descendants He (God) will reveal the way to salvation no prophet was called outside Israel.

Do you get it now?

Your claim is incorrect — the Bible itself records prophets and God-sent messages to non-Israelite peoples after Abraham. Saying God only called prophets from Jacob’s line ignores plain Scripture. Here’s the proof, succinct and clear:

1. Jonah was sent to Nineveh (Assyria).
God commanded Jonah to warn a major Gentile city; the people repented and were spared. (Jonah 3:1–5). That is an explicit, post-Abraham instance of a prophet sent outside Israel.

2. Elijah ministered to a non-Israelite widow in Zarephath (Sidon).
God sent Elijah to provide for and raise the widow’s son (1 Kings 17:8–24). Jesus cites this event to show prophets were sent beyond Israel (Luke 4:25–27).

3. Elisha’s miracle for Naaman the Aramean.
A foreign commander received cleansing and healing through Israel’s prophet (2 Kings 5). God used an Israelite prophet to bless a Gentile — again, not confined to Israel.

4. Balaam — a non-Israelite who spoke by God’s revelation.
Balaam (a Gentile diviner) was addressed and constrained by God, and he delivered God’s message (Numbers 22–24). This demonstrates God can speak through and to non-Israelite figures.

5. New Testament confirmation — God shows no partiality.
Peter’s vision and Cornelius’ conversion demonstrate God accepts worshippers from every nation (Acts 10:34–35). The early Church recognized the prophetic work reaching Gentiles.

6. The prophetic purpose was always universal.
God chose Abraham so “all peoples on earth will be blessed through you” (Genesis 12:3). Isaiah likewise speaks of a light to the nations (Isaiah 49:6). The biblical storyline points beyond one tribe.

Conclusion (clear and simple):
Your rule — “after Abraham no prophet was called outside Israel” — is contradicted by multiple biblical examples. If Scripture itself shows God sending messengers to non-Israelite peoples, then the idea that God’s revelation is limited by ethnicity is unsustainable. God’s mercy and guidance repeatedly cross national and ethnic boundaries in the Bible — which is precisely the pattern that Muhammad ﷺ follows as a prophet summoned to bring people back to the One God.

You still don't get it.

I didn't say God didn't send His prophets to other peoples but after the Israelites settled down in the promised land as descendants of Jacob God never called any prophet from another nation.

Just mention another prophet after Israelites settled in the land of Canaan because that is what God promised the descendants of Jacob:

"Now if you will strictly obey my voice and keep my covenant, you will certainly become my special property out of all peoples, for the whole earth belongs to me. You will become to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you are to say to the Israelites.” Exodus 19:5

From that very moment no prophet was raised from any other nation except Israel. So that guy from Saudi Arabia is fake!

JimRohn:
Your claim is incorrect — the Bible itself records prophets and God-sent messages to non-Israelite peoples after Abraham. Saying God only called prophets from Jacob’s line ignores plain Scripture. Here’s the proof, succinct and clear:

1. Jonah was sent to Nineveh (Assyria).
God commanded Jonah to warn a major Gentile city; the people repented and were spared. (Jonah 3:1–5). That is an explicit, post-Abraham instance of a prophet sent outside Israel.

2. Elijah ministered to a non-Israelite widow in Zarephath (Sidon).
God sent Elijah to provide for and raise the widow’s son (1 Kings 17:8–24). Jesus cites this event to show prophets were sent beyond Israel (Luke 4:25–27).

3. Elisha’s miracle for Naaman the Aramean.
A foreign commander received cleansing and healing through Israel’s prophet (2 Kings 5). God used an Israelite prophet to bless a Gentile — again, not confined to Israel.

4. Balaam — a non-Israelite who spoke by God’s revelation.
Balaam (a Gentile diviner) was addressed and constrained by God, and he delivered God’s message (Numbers 22–24). This demonstrates God can speak through and to non-Israelite figures.

5. New Testament confirmation — God shows no partiality.
Peter’s vision and Cornelius’ conversion demonstrate God accepts worshippers from every nation (Acts 10:34–35). The early Church recognized the prophetic work reaching Gentiles.

6. The prophetic purpose was always universal.
God chose Abraham so “all peoples on earth will be blessed through you” (Genesis 12:3). Isaiah likewise speaks of a light to the nations (Isaiah 49:6). The biblical storyline points beyond one tribe.

Conclusion (clear and simple):
Your rule — “after Abraham no prophet was called outside Israel” — is contradicted by multiple biblical examples. If Scripture itself shows God sending messengers to non-Israelite peoples, then the idea that God’s revelation is limited by ethnicity is unsustainable. God’s mercy and guidance repeatedly cross national and ethnic boundaries in the Bible — which is precisely the pattern that Muhammad ﷺ follows as a prophet summoned to bring people back to the One God.

Maximus692:
You still don't get it.

I didn't say God didn't send His prophets to other peoples but after the Israelites settled down in the promised land as descendants of Jacob God never called any prophet from another nation.

Just mention another prophet after Israelites settled in the land of Canaan because that is what God promised the descendants of Jacob:

"Now if you will strictly obey my voice and keep my covenant, you will certainly become my special property out of all peoples, for the whole earth belongs to me. You will become to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you are to say to the Israelites.” Exodus 19:5

From that very moment no prophet was raised from any other nation except Israel. So that guy from Saudi Arabia is fake!

You keep shifting the goalpost because your claim collapses under Scripture. First you said “all prophets must be from Jacob’s line.” When shown Job, Balaam, and Melchizedek, you moved it. Then you said “no prophet after Abraham outside Israel.” When shown Jonah, you shifted again. Now you’ve narrowed it further to “after Canaan.” That’s not reasoning — that’s running.

Let’s dismantle it:

1️⃣ Your Exodus 19:5 citation doesn’t support your claim.
God calling Israel His “special people” doesn’t mean He is bound to them forever. That covenant was conditional: “IF you obey My voice.” Israel broke it repeatedly, chasing idols (see Judges, Kings, Hosea, Jeremiah). A conditional covenant does not bind God from sending messengers elsewhere.

2️⃣ Prophets still engaged with Gentiles after Israel was in Canaan.

Jonah (long after Israel was in the land) was sent specifically to Assyria — not an Israelite nation.

Elijah and Elisha (operating after Israel was firmly in the land) ministered to Sidon and Syria.

If God never called a prophet to another nation post-Canaan, then Jonah’s entire mission is a contradiction to your theology.

3️⃣ Even Jesus broke your “Israel-only” box.
He praised the faith of the Canaanite woman (Matthew 15:28), healed the servant of a Roman centurion (Matthew 8:10), and explicitly said God’s prophets were not limited to Israel (Luke 4:25–27). By your logic, Jesus Himself broke “God’s promise” by extending blessings outside Israel.

4️⃣ The Bible itself prophesies universal guidance.
Isaiah 42 speaks of a coming servant who will bring God’s law to the nations and be “a light to the Gentiles.” That is not a tribal, Israel-only figure. That’s universality — perfectly matching Muhammad ﷺ, not your ethnic exclusivity.

📌 Bottom line:
You are cornered by your own Book. Every time your claim is dismantled, you shrink it further to protect your bias. But Scripture is clear: God is not bound by tribalism, and He has always sent His message where He wills. Limiting God’s sovereignty to Israel is an insult to Him.

Muhammad ﷺ is not “fake” — he is the fulfillment of that universal promise: the final prophet to all nations. What’s fake is trying to twist the Bible into an Israel-only contract, when the text itself smashes that claim.

You need to be patient my guy.

I was a Muslim like you and i know how aggressive i was back then so calm down and let's reason intelligently not rushing things.

No prophet was called outside Israel after God settled the Israelites as a nation.

So Muhammadu can't be a prophet of the same God unless he is sent only to his own nation not the world. If you say God is not partial i agree so He (God) must send a prophet who is from my own nation to me no longer anyone from another nation.

Do you get it now?

JimRohn:
You keep shifting the goalpost because your claim collapses under Scripture. First you said “all prophets must be from Jacob’s line.” When shown Job, Balaam, and Melchizedek, you moved it. Then you said “no prophet after Abraham outside Israel.” When shown Jonah, you shifted again. Now you’ve narrowed it further to “after Canaan.” That’s not reasoning — that’s running.

Let’s dismantle it:

1️⃣ Your Exodus 19:5 citation doesn’t support your claim.
God calling Israel His “special people” doesn’t mean He is bound to them forever. That covenant was conditional: “IF you obey My voice.” Israel broke it repeatedly, chasing idols (see Judges, Kings, Hosea, Jeremiah). A conditional covenant does not bind God from sending messengers elsewhere.

2️⃣ Prophets still engaged with Gentiles after Israel was in Canaan.

Jonah (long after Israel was in the land) was sent specifically to Assyria — not an Israelite nation.

Elijah and Elisha (operating after Israel was firmly in the land) ministered to Sidon and Syria.

If God never called a prophet to another nation post-Canaan, then Jonah’s entire mission is a contradiction to your theology.

3️⃣ Even Jesus broke your “Israel-only” box.
He praised the faith of the Canaanite woman (Matthew 15:28), healed the servant of a Roman centurion (Matthew 8:10), and explicitly said God’s prophets were not limited to Israel (Luke 4:25–27). By your logic, Jesus Himself broke “God’s promise” by extending blessings outside Israel.

4️⃣ The Bible itself prophesies universal guidance.
Isaiah 42 speaks of a coming servant who will bring God’s law to the nations and be “a light to the Gentiles.” That is not a tribal, Israel-only figure. That’s universality — perfectly matching Muhammad ﷺ, not your ethnic exclusivity.

📌 Bottom line:
You are cornered by your own Book. Every time your claim is dismantled, you shrink it further to protect your bias. But Scripture is clear: God is not bound by tribalism, and He has always sent His message where He wills. Limiting God’s sovereignty to Israel is an insult to Him.

Muhammad ﷺ is not “fake” — he is the fulfillment of that universal promise: the final prophet to all nations. What’s fake is trying to twist the Bible into an Israel-only contract, when the text itself smashes that claim.

MaxInDHouse:
You need to be patient my guy.

I was a Muslim like you and i know how aggressive i was back then so calm down and let's reason intelligently not rushing things.

No prophet was called outside Israel after God settled the Israelites as a nation.

So Muhammadu can't be a prophet of the same God unless he is sent only to his own nation not the world. If you say God is not partial i agree so He (God) must send a prophet who is from my own nation to me no longer anyone from another nation.

Do you get it now?

Nice attempt to dress bias in “patience.” But your reasoning still collapses. Let’s be clear:

1️⃣ You’re contradicting the Bible’s own record.

Jonah was after Israel was in the land — yet sent to Nineveh, a non-Israelite nation. By your standard, Jonah’s entire mission was illegitimate. Are you calling Jonah fake?

Elijah and Elisha operated in Israel’s land era — yet God directed them to Sidon and Syria. Was God breaking His own rule? Or is it your rule that’s broken?

2️⃣ Your demand that every nation must get a prophet from their own ethnicity is absurd and unbiblical.
By that logic:

Egyptians should have had their own prophet. They didn’t — God sent Moses (an Israelite) to them.

Ninevites should have had an Assyrian prophet. They didn’t — they got Jonah (an Israelite).

Syrians should have had their own prophet. They didn’t — they got Elisha (an Israelite).

God has never operated by your “every nation, their own prophet” formula. He sends whom He wills, to whom He wills. Your idea ties God’s hands — the Bible itself proves He doesn’t work that way.

3️⃣ Your theology actually insults God.
By saying “God must send a prophet from my nation,” you’re dictating terms to the Almighty. That’s arrogance. God doesn’t owe you a prophet from your tribe. He chooses, and humanity obeys. Limiting Him to your ethnic preference is not humility, it’s pride.

4️⃣ Universality is the final stage of revelation.
Even your Bible foresaw it: Isaiah 42 describes a Servant who brings God’s law to all nations. That’s not tribal. That’s universal. Muhammad ﷺ fits that perfectly — his message transcended ethnicity and geography. That’s why it spread across the globe, while Israel’s covenant failed through disobedience.

📌 Bottom line:
Your argument is a moving target. First “only Jacob’s line,” then “only after Abraham,” now “only Israel after Canaan,” and finally “each nation must get their own prophet.” That’s not truth — that’s desperation. The record of Scripture and history is clear: God is free to send universal guidance, and Muhammad ﷺ is exactly that.

So stop hiding behind excuses. If Jonah could be sent across nations, why not Muhammad ﷺ? Unless your real issue is not logic or scripture — but pride.

After Jacob's descendants settled down in Canaan God doesn't call any prophet from any other nation.
Think about that first!

JimRohn:
Nice attempt to dress bias in “patience.” But your reasoning still collapses. Let’s be clear:

1️⃣ You’re contradicting the Bible’s own record.

Jonah was after Israel was in the land — yet sent to Nineveh, a non-Israelite nation. By your standard, Jonah’s entire mission was illegitimate. Are you calling Jonah fake?

Elijah and Elisha operated in Israel’s land era — yet God directed them to Sidon and Syria. Was God breaking His own rule? Or is it your rule that’s broken?

2️⃣ Your demand that every nation must get a prophet from their own ethnicity is absurd and unbiblical.
By that logic:

Egyptians should have had their own prophet. They didn’t — God sent Moses (an Israelite) to them.

Ninevites should have had an Assyrian prophet. They didn’t — they got Jonah (an Israelite).

Syrians should have had their own prophet. They didn’t — they got Elisha (an Israelite).

God has never operated by your “every nation, their own prophet” formula. He sends whom He wills, to whom He wills. Your idea ties God’s hands — the Bible itself proves He doesn’t work that way.

3️⃣ Your theology actually insults God.
By saying “God must send a prophet from my nation,” you’re dictating terms to the Almighty. That’s arrogance. God doesn’t owe you a prophet from your tribe. He chooses, and humanity obeys. Limiting Him to your ethnic preference is not humility, it’s pride.

4️⃣ Universality is the final stage of revelation.
Even your Bible foresaw it: Isaiah 42 describes a Servant who brings God’s law to all nations. That’s not tribal. That’s universal. Muhammad ﷺ fits that perfectly — his message transcended ethnicity and geography. That’s why it spread across the globe, while Israel’s covenant failed through disobedience.

📌 Bottom line:
Your argument is a moving target. First “only Jacob’s line,” then “only after Abraham,” now “only Israel after Canaan,” and finally “each nation must get their own prophet.” That’s not truth — that’s desperation. The record of Scripture and history is clear: God is free to send universal guidance, and Muhammad ﷺ is exactly that.

So stop hiding behind excuses. If Jonah could be sent across nations, why not Muhammad ﷺ? Unless your real issue is not logic or scripture — but pride.

MaxInDHouse:
After Jacob's descendants settled down in Canaan God doesn't call any prophet from any other nation.
Think about that first!

You keep chanting the same line without proof — but repetition doesn’t turn falsehood into truth. Let’s dismantle it again:

1️⃣ Your “Canaan cut-off” is a man-made rule, not a biblical verse.
Show me one verse where God says: “Once Israel is in Canaan, I will never call or send a prophet to another nation.” You can’t, because it doesn’t exist. It’s your invention.

2️⃣ Scripture itself smashes your claim.

Jonah was explicitly sent to Nineveh (Assyria) long after Israel was settled in Canaan. Unless you’re ready to call Jonah false, your argument is dead.

Elisha healed Naaman the Syrian after Israel was settled. Was God breaking your rule?

Even Jesus himself said: “There were many widows in Israel, yet Elijah was sent to a widow in Sidon” (Luke 4:25-27). That’s Jesus testifying that God sent prophets beyond Israel after Canaan.

So it’s not me you’re fighting — it’s your own Bible.

3️⃣ Your rule reduces God’s sovereignty.
By insisting God “cannot” send a prophet to another nation after Canaan, you’re boxing in the Almighty. Who gave you authority to dictate where God can or cannot send His messengers? That’s not faith, that’s arrogance.

4️⃣ History and prophecy demand universality.
Isaiah 42 and Malachi 1:11 both speak of God’s name being made great among the nations — not just in Israel. Muhammad ﷺ fulfills that in a way no Israelite prophet ever did.

📌 Bottom line:
Your “Canaan doctrine” is not in the Bible, contradicts the Bible, and insults the sovereignty of God. The truth is clear: God sends whom He wills, where He wills. Limiting Him to one nation is desperation, not revelation.

So stop hiding behind slogans. Either admit Jonah, Elijah, Elisha, and Jesus Himself broke your rule — or admit your rule was never God’s in the first place.