₦airaland Forum

honesttalk21:
If you truly post, do so in legible manner.

It was posted in a legible manner sir. Remove your Islamic goggles and you will see the things you're escaping from

TenQ:
It was posted in a legible manner sir. Remove your Islamic goggles and you will see the things you're escaping from

Do you deny skewing your pictured response? Well you deny so many other things too. So it's normal to you.

honesttalk21:
Do you deny skewing your pictured response? Well you deny so many other things too. So it's normal to you.

Turn your phone to read it. It is even bigger.














It seems you are not aware that Nairaland bots read screenshots. The only way workaround is if you rotate the image.

TenQ:
Turn your phone to read it. It is even bigger.














It seems you are not aware that Nairaland bots read screenshots. The only way workaround is if you rotate the image.

So rather than comply with the limits of a system you operate on you found a way to go around the rules.

That shows quite a lot. Should you genuinely intend to communicate or pass your opinion do the appropriate.

honesttalk21:
So rather than comply with the limits of a system you operate on you found a way to go around the rules.

That shows quite a lot. Should you genuinely intend to communicate or pass your opinion do the appropriate.

It shows that I will go every length to expose falsehood, promote the truth even when the system goes against me as long as I do not violate any of God's laws.

Internet had been your own downfall because lies becomes exposed with information from your own books.

Let me ask you a question
Why does Mohammed and Allah share so many attributes together?


In context:
Qutham Ibn Abdul-Lah was given the name Mohammed meaning "The Praised One"!
Tell me, who ELSE in the Universe is THE PRAISED ONE other than God..

Mohammed has 99 names just like Allah has 99 names and a few of these names overlap

Tell me if these names below belong to Allah OR Mohammed
Al-Jabbar
Al-Hayy
Al-Karim
Al-Muhaymin
Al-Rashid
Al-Mujtaba
Al-Mujtahid
Al-Ra'uf


Mohammed is not Allah but they both share same attributes as above!?

SMH!

honesttalk21:
Oh really? I totally disagree.

Your insistence on repeating the aorta clause as if it makes it true is puzzling. The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) lived for years after Khaybar, completed his mission, and witnessed the establishment of Islam hardly the hallmark of a false prophet. Maybe you’ve redefined what it means to be prompt.

If Allah had taken him away, Islam wouldn’t have flourished for 1400 years; it would have crumbled.

And about Jesus, please stop claiming he desired crucifixion. Your own Gospels contradict that, showing him pleading three times in Gethsemane to let this cup pass from him. He was in such agony that he sweated blood, and on the cross, he cried out, “Why have You forsaken me?” That doesn’t sound like someone who wanted to be crucified; it sounds like someone desperately seeking rescue.

Islam honors him. Allah saved him, just as He saved Moses from Pharaoh and Abraham from the fire. Your beliefs seem to twist humiliation into a form of theology.

So, let me ask you this: If Jesus truly wanted crucifixion, why did he plead with God to save him from it?

And regarding the idea that prophets don’t come with swords, you might want to reconsider that when it comes to Moses, who literally fought Pharaoh, executed idolaters, and led wars by God’s command (Exodus 32, Numbers 31). If you’re going to dismiss Muhammad (pbuh) on those grounds, then you’ve inadvertently disqualified Moses as well.

His falsehood is not based on those things, like you said it's conditional on the way he will be ’heavenalized’. It doesn't matter, your mental gymnastics can't take this away!
Islam was established by the sword. Also, didn't Allah not take him away🤨? So, your posit that somehow because he established ’your religion’ that it shows he was true🤷—They do not correlate! The specificity of the conditional warning ensures that ’he went as Allah declared he will go’, if he were indeed false!😅

I don't think you consider Buddhism a way🤨, even though Buddha was taking away and it still exists till today 😁—So, you see; ’longevity is not an attribute of truth’! Use another point, my brother 🥱.

This is just comedic😂, “Jesus desperately seeking help“. I have answered this earlier, ’Jesus bore the weight of sin,’ and in that moment, there was a separation from God! After which he pronounced, ’It is finished’!

Jesus feeling ’sorrowful’ is a physical expression of his being! He had foretold such far earlier—about his death of course👀—and he even rebuked Peter when he wanted to convince him otherwise. So yes, he wanted to lay down his life right from the beginning.

Nothing of sort, I am only following the bread crumbs🥱. Allah's words are paramount to me, anything other thing is just words of men! Whether your ’first generation’ saw it as honor doesn't matter at all. Even today, people have differing views on different things and it doesn't affect the ’objective reality’ of it. Your prophet's own was self inflicted. I don't think, I will ’eat’ the food of a vengeful woman🤨—No one will! This fulfilled the ’conditional warning’! So... yeah, his pain is self inflicted unlike others that ’suffered’ for righteousness.

Comparing Moses' conquest to your prophet's own is far-fetched. Allah ordained such🥱 for it was a specific instance of judgement or divine retribution and not a ’call to vio..lenticness’... Note: this term doesn't exist, it's to bypass, you know who...
It's Allah's command not a prophet's initiative 👀to do such. Thus, the context is different 🥱.

honesttalk21:
You are saying Muhammad pbuh lied against Allah’ and Allah let him complete Islam before cutting his aorta?

If the God claim to worship is true, then you are accusing Him of knowingly letting so many follow a false religion for 23 years before acting? And if this Allah is false, then how do you explain the rise of Islam, the preservation of the Qur’an, and its impact on history? Either way, your logic collapses.
If Allah is true, He wouldn’t allow deception on His own name; if Allah is false, then your entire aorta argument is irrelevant because a false god can’t cut anyone’s aorta.

What exactly are on about ? They are not mutually exclusive 😅, how many times must I tell you this? A lot of people have lied and it wasn't immediate 🥱—Karma strikes when it wants to strike🤧. Using this, you have no case 🥱.

His judgement came when it came! Allah's words was fulfilled when it did, perhaps like the verse states, “Allah’s favour“ caused it to happen after the supposed ’completion’ of his religion 👀. We are also aware that sometimes the words of Allah are very similar to the words of men 🤕—Ubay comes to mind, also the scribe that said ’Allah is the best of creators’🥱 among others. You can see that ’Allah's words’ can be whatever your prophet made of it—which is the same thing till today, with the advent of diacritical marks and others that change the entire meanings of words—A notable example is in the scribe that asked your prophet ’how should I write it? ’ seeking the ’prophet's affirmation’ but he got ’write it any how you want, for it was revealed in both ways🤣’.

As you can see🥱, there's evidence for me to even doubt that he was a spokesperson of Allah! Let Allah be true and all men be false!
I stand with Allah!

This logic of yours is elementary, the bible records that ’Allah' gave them to their delusion 🤷 also ’your book’ affirms that ’Allah is the best of deceivers’. Either way your logic collapses🥱. I could say the same thing for you, why did Allah wait for 600years before sending a revelation 🤣to reprove? It means Allah intentionally allows evil to thrive not because it's good or true! The existence of something doesn't necessarily mean it's true! A lot of false things and concepts exist today, it doesn't mean they're true🥱. Please, serenade me with something else😁. I stand with Allah!

TenQ:
It shows that I will go every length to expose falsehood, promote the truth even when the system goes against me as long as I do not violate any of God's laws.

Internet had been your own downfall because lies becomes exposed with information from your own books.

Let me ask you a question
Why does Mohammed and Allah share so many attributes together?


In context:
Qutham Ibn Abdul-Lah was given the name Mohammed meaning "The Praised One"!
Tell me, who ELSE in the Universe is THE PRAISED ONE other than God..

Mohammed has 99 names just like Allah has 99 names and a few of these names overlap

Tell me if these names below belong to Allah OR Mohammed
Al-Jabbar
Al-Hayy
Al-Karim
Al-Muhaymin
Al-Rashid
Al-Mujtaba
Al-Mujtahid
Al-Ra'uf


Mohammed is not Allah but they both share same attributes as above!?

SMH!

You sure claim a passion for what you believe to be the truth, and have a right to speak out. However, if we’re aiming for a genuine conversation instead of just stirring the pot, then intentions and methods are crucial.

You’ve made some bold statements that require clarity before jumping to conclusions.

The Praised One; Muhammed, and God.
The name Muhammad, which translates to the praised one, is indeed just that a name, not a title of divinity. In various cultures, names can mean things like beloved, gift of God,or noble,without suggesting that the person is divine. Being praised doesn’t mean being worshiped, especially in Islamic belief, where the line between God (Allah) and His messenger is clearly defined and strongly maintained.

Shared Attributes and 99 Names

Some of the names you brought up like Al-Karim (The Generous) or Al-Ra’uf (The Compassionate) are indeed part of the 99 Names of Allah. However, to claim that a human sharing a similar trait, albeit in a much lesser capacity, makes them divine is a misunderstanding of how attributes work in both language and theology.

For instance, Christians might describe someone as loving, just as God is referred to as Love but that doesn’t make that person God. Similarly, being called wise or merciful doesn’t elevate someone to the status of divinity. Language often overlaps, but what sets God’s attributes apart is their absolute perfection and eternal nature. Qualities that, in Islam, are solely possessed by Allah.

Al-Mujtaba / Al-Mujtahid earen’t among the 99 Names of Allah; they’re titles used to describe individuals. Al-Mujtaba means the chosen one (often used for prophets), while Al-Mujtahid refers to someone who puts in effort in religious matters and law. Again, these are not divine titles.

System vs. Principle
Regarding your earlier point about going around the rules you’ve actually highlighted the opposite. Instead of breaking divine law, you suggest it’s your responsibility to bypass any human-made system that contradicts your understanding of the truth. That’s a valid principle, but even then, the method matters.

Having a passionate argument doesn’t mean we can overlook the importance of theological accuracy. If we’re diving deep into discussions, let’s make sure we do it with a full understanding, careful attention to language, and the respect that all beliefs deserve even when we’re critiquing them.

Gabrielshow24:
What exactly are on about ? They are not mutually exclusive 😅, how many times must I tell you this? A lot of people have lied and it wasn't immediate 🥱—Karma strikes when it wants to strike🤧. Using this, you have no case 🥱.

His judgement came when it came! Allah's words was fulfilled when it did, perhaps like the verse states, “Allah’s favour“ caused it to happen after the supposed ’completion’ of his religion 👀. We are also aware that sometimes the words of Allah are very similar to the words of men 🤕—Ubay comes to mind, also the scribe that said ’Allah is the best of creators’🥱 among others. You can see that ’Allah's words’ can be whatever your prophet made of it—which is the same thing till today, with the advent of diacritical marks and others that change the entire meanings of words—A notable example is in the scribe that asked your prophet ’how should I write it? ’ seeking the ’prophet's affirmation’ but he got ’write it any how you want, for it was revealed in both ways🤣’.

As you can see🥱, there's evidence for me to even doubt that he was a spokesperson of Allah! Let Allah be true and all men be false!
I stand with Allah!

This logic of yours is elementary, the bible records that ’Allah' gave them to their delusion 🤷 also ’your book’ affirms that ’Allah is the best of deceivers’. Either way your logic collapses🥱. I could say the same thing for you, why did Allah wait for 600years before sending a revelation 🤣to reprove? It means Allah intentionally allows evil to thrive not because it's good or true! The existence of something doesn't necessarily mean it's true! A lot of false things and concepts exist today, it doesn't mean they're true🥱. Please, serenade me with something else😁. I stand with Allah!

You're tossing out a mix of sarcasm, partial truths, and cherry-picked references. Dismissive emojis don’t replace coherent argumentation.

They are not mutually exclusive.
Yes, that's my point. You’re the one trying to say Muhammad pbuh was a liar and that Allah (the God you're claiming to stand with) allowed this supposed liar to speak in His name, unfettered, for over two decades. So which is it?
Was he lying and God let him succeed, or was he truly sent by God? You can’t have both unless you're willing to say Allah knowingly let deception win. That’s the contradiction you're dodging.

A lot of people have lied and it wasn't immediate; karma strikes when it wants to strike.

If you’re invoking divine justice, you're admitting that there is timing and wisdom to when justice is executed. Fine. But then don’t mock the long duration of the Prophet’s mission. That undermines your own point about karma or divine timing.

Allah’s favour caused it to happen after the completion of the religion.
If that’s your claim, then you’re not accusing Muhammad of lying you’re saying Allah’s favor was behind the success of his mission. That supports my argument, not yours.

The scribe who said Allah is the best of creators ..

This old claim is based on a misinterpretation. The Prophet pbuh affirmed inspired contributions only when they matched revelation, not as make it up as you go.The verse you’re referring to in Quran 23:14) was confirmed after being revealed not invented by a scribe.

The idea that revelation was a collaborative, human process is contradicted by how verses were memorized, checked, and verified by multiple companions. That’s why the Qur’an remains unchanged, and you know this.

Allah’s words can be whatever your prophet made of it.

Yet, ironically, you're quoting those very words to try to disprove him. That’s inconsistent. You can’t use the Qur’an as your evidence and dismiss it as fabrication in the same breath. Pick a lane.

Allah is the best of deceivers.

The Arabic term is makr which means plan or strategy.The verse in context refers to Allah outwitting the deceptive plans of His enemies not engaging in moral deception. You’re taking a complex term, removing the context, and using it as a slogan. That’s not critical thinking.

Why did Allah wait 600 years before sending revelation?

Same reason He waited centuries between previous prophets. By your logic, any gap between messengers would mean divine neglect. That’s neither biblical nor Qur’anic theology it’s just a strawman. Delay does not mean approval, and silence is not always absence.

Let Allah be true and all men be false.

Agreed. But apply that consistently. That includes not falsely attributing lies to someone Allah clearly defended and affirmed as His messenger. You can’t say I stand with Allah while slandering someone Allah Himself declared as a prophet.

You’re welcome to doubt, but doubt should be based on reason, not rhetorical flourishes and reaction emojis. If your claim is that Allah is true, then be consistent with what He revealed and whom He chose to reveal it through.

Gabrielshow24:
His falsehood is not based on those things, like you said it's conditional on the way he will be ’heavenalized’. It doesn't matter, your mental gymnastics can't take this away!
Islam was established by the sword. Also, didn't Allah not take him away🤨? So, your posit that somehow because he established ’your religion’ that it shows he was true🤷—They do not correlate! The specificity of the conditional warning ensures that ’he went as Allah declared he will go’, if he were indeed false!😅

I don't think you consider Buddhism a way🤨, even though Buddha was taking away and it still exists till today 😁—So, you see; ’longevity is not an attribute of truth’! Use another point, my brother 🥱.

This is just comedic😂, “Jesus desperately seeking help“. I have answered this earlier, ’Jesus bore the weight of sin,’ and in that moment, there was a separation from God! After which he pronounced, ’It is finished’!

Jesus feeling ’sorrowful’ is a physical expression of his being! He had foretold such far earlier—about his death of course👀—and he even rebuked Peter when he wanted to convince him otherwise. So yes, he wanted to lay down his life right from the beginning.

Nothing of sort, I am only following the bread crumbs🥱. Allah's words are paramount to me, anything other thing is just words of men! Whether your ’first generation’ saw it as honor doesn't matter at all. Even today, people have differing views on different things and it doesn't affect the ’objective reality’ of it. Your prophet's own was self inflicted. I don't think, I will ’eat’ the food of a vengeful woman🤨—No one will! This fulfilled the ’conditional warning’! So... yeah, his pain is self inflicted unlike others that ’suffered’ for righteousness.

Comparing Moses' conquest to your prophet's own is far-fetched. Allah ordained such🥱 for it was a specific instance of judgement or divine retribution and not a ’call to vio..lenticness’... Note: this term doesn't exist, it's to bypass, you know who...
It's Allah's command not a prophet's initiative 👀to do such. Thus, the context is different 🥱.

Look, here’s the thing;when people bring up the aorta verse, they make it sound like God promised Muhammad pbuh would die suddenly if he was false. But just step back and think.He lived more than a decade after that verse was revealed, saw his religion spread across Arabia, gave his farewell sermon in front of thousands, and passed away at home with his family after finishing his mission. Does that really look like a man cut off in disgrace? Or does it look like someone who actually completed what he was sent for?


And about Islam spread by the sword… well, history is full of wars. But the Prophet’s battles were defensive. At Badr, Uhud, the Confederates Muslims were literally fighting to survive. That’s a huge difference from conquering just for blood or land. If you say that’s violent, then Moses also fought, even harsher, because God commanded him to execute idolaters and lead wars. So you can’t dismiss Muhammad pbuh without also dismissing Moses.

On Jesus, the Bible itself shows him struggling. In Gethsemane, he asked God three times to let this cup pass.On the cross, he cried Why have you forsaken me? That sounds like someone desperate for rescue, not someone excited for crucifixion. Islam actually defends his honor here saying God saved him, like He saved Moses from Pharaoh and Abraham from the fire. Doesn’t that make more sense than humiliation being the path to salvation?

As for the Prophet’s pbuh death, he didn’t just collapse suddenly from some curse. He lived years after the poisoning incident, finished his mission, and passed away with dignity. That’s not humiliation that’s fulfillment.

Then considering that there were no symptoms for over three years after and the illness appeared just days before his death, it seems highly unlikely that the Khaybar poisoning was the cause of the Prophet Muhammad’s pbuh passing. An acute terminal illness is a much more plausible explanation.

honesttalk21:
You sure claim a passion for what you believe to be the truth, and have a right to speak out. However, if we’re aiming for a genuine conversation instead of just stirring the pot, then intentions and methods are crucial.

You’ve made some bold statements that require clarity before jumping to conclusions.

The Praised One; Muhammed, and God.
The name Muhammad, which translates to the praised one, is indeed just that a name, not a title of divinity. In various cultures, names can mean things like beloved, gift of God,or noble,without suggesting that the person is divine. Being praised doesn’t mean being worshiped, especially in Islamic belief, where the line between God (Allah) and His messenger is clearly defined and strongly maintained.

Shared Attributes and 99 Names

Some of the names you brought up like Al-Karim (The Generous) or Al-Ra’uf (The Compassionate) are indeed part of the 99 Names of Allah. However, to claim that a human sharing a similar trait, albeit in a much lesser capacity, makes them divine is a misunderstanding of how attributes work in both language and theology.

For instance, Christians might describe someone as loving, just as God is referred to as Love but that doesn’t make that person God. Similarly, being called wise or merciful doesn’t elevate someone to the status of divinity. Language often overlaps, but what sets God’s attributes apart is their absolute perfection and eternal nature. Qualities that, in Islam, are solely possessed by Allah.

Al-Mujtaba / Al-Mujtahid earen’t among the 99 Names of Allah; they’re titles used to describe individuals. Al-Mujtaba means the chosen one (often used for prophets), while Al-Mujtahid refers to someone who puts in effort in religious matters and law. Again, these are not divine titles.

System vs. Principle
Regarding your earlier point about going around the rules you’ve actually highlighted the opposite. Instead of breaking divine law, you suggest it’s your responsibility to bypass any human-made system that contradicts your understanding of the truth. That’s a valid principle, but even then, the method matters.

Having a passionate argument doesn’t mean we can overlook the importance of theological accuracy. If we’re diving deep into discussions, let’s make sure we do it with a full understanding, careful attention to language, and the respect that all beliefs deserve even when we’re critiquing them.

I think my questions were simple and direct. You said every other things without answering the simple questions. Qutham Ibn Abdul-Lah was given the name Mohammed meaning "The Praised One"!

1. Tell me, who ELSE in the Universe is THE PRAISED ONE other than God?
Who else in the Universe can legally be called the Praised One?

2. Why does Mohammed and Allah share so many attributes together when he is NOT Allah?
Is there anyone else showing shares attributes with Allah amongst the prophets?

3. Mohammed has 99 names just like Allah has 99 names and a few of these names overlap. Tell me if these names below belong to Allah OR Mohammed
Al-Jabbar, Al-Hayy, Al-Karim, Al-Muhaymin, Al-Rashid, Al-Mujtaba, Al-Mujtahid and Al-Ra'uf

TenQ:
I think my questions were simple and direct. You said every other things without answering the simple questions. Qutham Ibn Abdul-Lah was given the name Mohammed meaning "The Praised One"!

1. Tell me, who ELSE in the Universe is THE PRAISED ONE other than God?
Who else in the Universe can legally be called the Praised One?

2. Why does Mohammed and Allah share so many attributes together when he is NOT Allah?
Is there anyone else showing shares attributes with Allah amongst the prophets?

3. Mohammed has 99 names just like Allah has 99 names and a few of these names overlap. Tell me if these names below belong to Allah OR Mohammed
Al-Jabbar, Al-Hayy, Al-Karim, Al-Muhaymin, Al-Rashid, Al-Mujtaba, Al-Mujtahid and Al-Ra'uf

1. Who else is “The Praised One” besides God?

Muhammad pbuh means “the praised one,” but it’s just a name. Lots of people have names that mean something like that and it doesn’t make them God. Only Allah gets that kind of ultimate praise in Islam.

2. Why do Muhammad and Allah share some attributes if Muhammad isn’t Allah?

Good question! But be certain that Humans can have qualities like kindness or mercy, but God’s qualities are perfect and on a whole different level. Just because someone’s kind doesn’t mean they’re divine. So, sharing some traits doesn’t mean Muhammad pbuh is Allah.

3. About those 99 names; do they belong to Allah or Muhammad pbuh?

The 99 Names are special names for Allah alone. Some titles like Al-Mujtaba or Al-Mujtahid are for people, not God. Sometimes words overlap, but the meaning is very different.

Hope that clears this up a bit.

honesttalk21:
1. Who else is “The Praised One” besides God?

Muhammad pbuh means “the praised one,” but it’s just a name. Lots of people have names that mean something like that and it doesn’t make them God. Only Allah gets that kind of ultimate praise in Islam.

So, Only God should be the Praised One AND Mohammed too!?

honesttalk21:
2. Why do Muhammad and Allah share some attributes if Muhammad isn’t Allah?

Good question! But be certain that Humans can have qualities like kindness or mercy, but God’s qualities are perfect and on a whole different level. Just because someone’s kind doesn’t mean they’re divine. So, sharing some traits doesn’t mean Muhammad pbuh is Allah.

So, Mohammed shares some Attributes with God!?
Do you know any other person who shares attributes with God apart from Mohammed?

But technically, it's even more serious because Allah and Mohammad share the same names.
SMH!

Any you think you are not a polytheist!?

honesttalk21:
3. About those 99 names; do they belong to Allah or Muhammad pbuh?

The 99 Names are special names for Allah alone. Some titles like Al-Mujtaba or Al-Mujtahid are for people, not God. Sometimes words overlap, but the meaning is very different.

Hope that clears this up a bit.

This wasn't the question.
These names of Al-Jabbar, Al-Hayy, Al-Karim, Al-Muhaymin, Al-Rashid, Al-Mujtaba, Al-Mujtahid and Al-Ra'uf are they Allah's names or Mohammed's names

TenQ:
So, Only God should be the Praised One AND Mohammed too!?


So, Mohammed shares some Attributes with God!?
Do you know any other person who shares attributes with God apart from Mohammed?

But technically, it's even more serious because Allah and Mohammad share the same names.
SMH!

Any you think you are not a polytheist!?


This wasn't the question.
These names of Al-Jabbar, Al-Hayy, Al-Karim, Al-Muhaymin, Al-Rashid, Al-Mujtaba, Al-Mujtahid and Al-Ra'uf are they Allah's names or Mohammed's names

Al-Jabbar, Al-Hayy, Al-Karim, Al-Muhaymin, Al-Rashid, Al-Ra’uf are all names that refer specifically to Allah.

On the other hand, names like Al-Mujtaba (the chosen one) and Al-Mujtahid (someone who diligently seeks religious knowledge) are actually titles for people, not divine names.

When it comes to sharing attributes, it’s quite common for humans to reflect certain positive qualities of God, albeit in a limited way. This doesn’t imply that anyone is divine or equal to God. It’s more about embodying traits like kindness or mercy, without actually sharing in God’s essence.

Recognizing that some human qualities can mirror divine attributes doesn’t mean that Muhammad is God or that Islam promotes the idea of multiple gods. It’s really about understanding that while people can exhibit good traits in a limited, human manner, only God possesses those traits in their perfect and eternal form.

honesttalk21:
You're tossing out a mix of sarcasm, partial truths, and cherry-picked references. Dismissive emojis don’t replace coherent argumentation.

They are not mutually exclusive.
Yes, that's my point. You’re the one trying to say Muhammad pbuh was a liar and that Allah (the God you're claiming to stand with) allowed this supposed liar to speak in His name, unfettered, for over two decades. So which is it?
Was he lying and God let him succeed, or was he truly sent by God? You can’t have both unless you're willing to say Allah knowingly let deception win. That’s the contradiction you're dodging.

A lot of people have lied and it wasn't immediate; karma strikes when it wants to strike.

If you’re invoking divine justice, you're admitting that there is timing and wisdom to when justice is executed. Fine. But then don’t mock the long duration of the Prophet’s mission. That undermines your own point about karma or divine timing.

Allah’s favour caused it to happen after the completion of the religion.
If that’s your claim, then you’re not accusing Muhammad of lying you’re saying Allah’s favor was behind the success of his mission. That supports my argument, not yours.

The scribe who said Allah is the best of creators ..

This old claim is based on a misinterpretation. The Prophet pbuh affirmed inspired contributions only when they matched revelation, not as make it up as you go.The verse you’re referring to in Quran 23:14) was confirmed after being revealed not invented by a scribe.

The idea that revelation was a collaborative, human process is contradicted by how verses were memorized, checked, and verified by multiple companions. That’s why the Qur’an remains unchanged, and you know this.

Allah’s words can be whatever your prophet made of it.

Yet, ironically, you're quoting those very words to try to disprove him. That’s inconsistent. You can’t use the Qur’an as your evidence and dismiss it as fabrication in the same breath. Pick a lane.

Allah is the best of deceivers.

The Arabic term is makr which means plan or strategy.The verse in context refers to Allah outwitting the deceptive plans of His enemies not engaging in moral deception. You’re taking a complex term, removing the context, and using it as a slogan. That’s not critical thinking.

Why did Allah wait 600 years before sending revelation?

Same reason He waited centuries between previous prophets. By your logic, any gap between messengers would mean divine neglect. That’s neither biblical nor Qur’anic theology it’s just a strawman. Delay does not mean approval, and silence is not always absence.

Let Allah be true and all men be false.

Agreed. But apply that consistently. That includes not falsely attributing lies to someone Allah clearly defended and affirmed as His messenger. You can’t say I stand with Allah while slandering someone Allah Himself declared as a prophet.

You’re welcome to doubt, but doubt should be based on reason, not rhetorical flourishes and reaction emojis. If your claim is that Allah is true, then be consistent with what He revealed and whom He chose to reveal it through.

I replied to this twice but that ’autobot’ decided against it. I will respond to this comprehensively. Your points are glib, they only affirm my stance. Like you said, they are not mutually exclusive events! They can co-occur😁.

As for the part where you argue that Allah allowed deception, I beg to differ🥱. He allowed such for the christians and the Jews.

This is a test reply😁, if it goes then I will tweak the full comprehensive words of my actual refutations —I will even remove the terms ’your prophet ’ as a safety precaution; you can see the extent I have to go through just to speak to you, I can't even mention fundamental terms related to your religion 🤕—This doesn't deter me!

Let Allah be true and others be false!

Gabrielshow24:
I replied to this twice but that ’autobot’ decided against it. I will respond to this comprehensively. Your points are glib, they only affirm my stance. Like you said, they are not mutually exclusive events! They can co-occur😁.

As for the part where you argue that Allah allowed deception, I beg to differ🥱. He allowed such for the christians and the Jews.

This is a test reply😁, if it goes then I will tweak the full comprehensive words of my actual refutations —I will even remove the terms ’your prophet ’ as a safety precaution; you can see the extent I have to go through just to speak to you, I can't even mention fundamental terms related to your religion 🤕—This doesn't deter me!

Let Allah be true and others be false!

I see you put thought and passion into your position even if we clearly disagree.

You say “They are not mutually exclusive. They can co-occur 😁.”

That sounds like a clever way to brush the issue aside, but let’s be real this isn’t just about “two things happening at the same time.”

Here’s the actual contradiction:
You’re saying Muhammad pbuh wasn’t truthful but also that Allah (who you claim to believe in) let him go on preaching in His name for over two decades. Not just quietly, but with growing influence, followers, and what many people saw as divine guidance.

So the question isn’t just about timing it’s about justice. Would a just God really allow someone to falsely speak in His name uncorrected, undenied, and fully supported for that long?

You can’t say he was lying and that Allah just let that ride, then also believe Allah is just and wise. That’s not mutually coexisting truths. That’s a contradiction that deserves a real answer.

You say that He allowed such for the Christians and the Jews?

I hear you but let’s slow that down.
In Islam, the belief is that God sent real prophets to those communities; Moses, Jesus, and others. The corruption came later, from followers, not from the prophets themselves.

So using that example doesn’t actually help your case because you’re not accusing followers of messing things up after Muhammad pbuh. You’re saying Muhammad pbuh himself was dishonest and that God not only didn’t stop it, but actually let him lead a global movement in His name.

If that’s what you believe, then you're basically saying God allowed a massive deception to succeed and you're okay with that. That’s a much deeper claim than maybe you’re admitting.


Well you say this is a test reply and has message limitations.

I get the frustration. Algorithms can be overly cautious sometimes, and it can feel limiting. But honestly, it’s not about censoring criticism it’s about tone, wording, and how the message is framed. You’re clearly free to disagree, even passionately. Just try to keep the language in the realm of fair and focused rather than hostile or loaded. That’s not weakness that’s clarity.

And look you don’t have to say your prophet like it’s a landmine. You can say Muhammad (I add pbuh, you don't have to), you can even say you don’t believe in his prophethood just do it in a way that shows you’re arguing a position, not attacking a person or mocking a faith. That actually makes your points hit harder, not softer.

Let Allah be true and others be false.

Agreed but that line cuts both ways.

If you truly believe Allah is true, then you also have to take seriously what He said about Muhammad pbuh in the Qur’an:

* That he was His messenger.
* That he was sent as a mercy.
* That Allah protected him and his message.
* That accusing him falsely is a major wrong.

So quoting let God be true while dismissing the very person God declared as a prophet? That’s not a consistent stance.

You either believe Allah speaks the truth in which case you’d need to rethink your accusation.
Or you believe Muhammad pbuh lied in which case, you'd have to admit you're rejecting what God Himself affirmed.

Both positions can’t be true. And I’m not saying that as a trap I’m just pointing out that these are serious claims with serious implications.

If you’ve got a longer or more detailed reply you’re working on, go ahead and send it just know that I’m not here to shut down honest discussion.

But I do think conversations like this deserve more than sarcasm, emojis, or surface-level comebacks. If you’re confident in your view, then say it clearly, back it up thoughtfully, and let’s have that real dialogue.

honesttalk21:
Al-Jabbar, Al-Hayy, Al-Karim, Al-Muhaymin, Al-Rashid, Al-Ra’uf are all names that refer specifically to Allah.

But Al-Jabbar, Al-Karim, Al-Muhaymin, Al-Mujtaba, and Al-Ra'uf specifically also refer to Mohammed's name isn't it?

Meaning that Mohammed is partner with Allah by name?

honesttalk21:
On the other hand, names like Al-Mujtaba (the chosen one) and Al-Mujtahid (someone who diligently seeks religious knowledge) are actually titles for people, not divine names.

When it comes to sharing attributes, it’s quite common for humans to reflect certain positive qualities of God, albeit in a limited way. This doesn’t imply that anyone is divine or equal to God. It’s more about embodying traits like kindness or mercy, without actually sharing in God’s essence.

Recognizing that some human qualities can mirror divine attributes doesn’t mean that Muhammad is God or that Islam promotes the idea of multiple gods. It’s really about understanding that while people can exhibit good traits in a limited, human manner, only God possesses those traits in their perfect and eternal form.

So, Mohammed shares some Attributes with God!?
But my questions were very specific!


1. Do you know any other person who shares attributes with God apart from Mohammed?

2. These are NAMES of Allah example, you can call Allah by the name Al-Rahman or Al-Raheem just as you can call Allah by the names Al-Jabbar, Al-Karim, Al-Muhaymin, Al-Mujtaba, and Al-Ra'uf.

Can you disprove the LOGIC that if ANY or just ONE of these names are also the names of Mohammed , then Mohammed is Allah?

3. Does Mohammed share knowledge with Allah?
4. When you recite the shahada, do you not associate the name of Allah with then name of Mohammed?




Withnall these, don't you think you are a polytheist?

TenQ:
But Al-Jabbar, Al-Karim, Al-Muhaymin, Al-Mujtaba, and Al-Ra'uf specifically also refer to Mohammed's name isn't it?

Meaning that Mohammed is partner with Allah by name?


So, Mohammed shares some Attributes with God!?
But my questions were very specific!


1. Do you know any other person who shares attributes with God apart from Mohammed?

2. These are NAMES of Allah example, you can call Allah by the name Al-Rahman or Al-Raheem just as you can call Allah by the names Al-Jabbar, Al-Karim, Al-Muhaymin, Al-Mujtaba, and Al-Ra'uf.

Can you disprove the LOGIC that if ANY or just ONE of these names are also the names of Mohammed , then Mohammed is Allah?

3. Does Mohammed share knowledge with Allah?
4. When you recite the shahada, do you not associate the name of Allah with then name of Mohammed?




Withnall these, don't you think you are a polytheist?

You are making a basic category error that even a beginner in theology would avoid. Very unexpected of you.


Allah’s Names vs. Prophetic Descriptions

Allah’s Name are absolute, infinite, eternal.

When similar words are applied to prophets (e.g., Qur’an 9:128 calls Muhammad pbuh raʾuf, rahim; Qur’an 44:17 calls Moses karim), they are limited, descriptive, and relative.

That does not imply divinity it simply highlights noble qualities.



Consistency Check on the Bible

Bible calls humans “gods” (Psalm 82:6, John 10:34).

Judges are called elohim (Ex. 21:6).

Angels are called holy ones (Job 5:1)
By your own logic, your scripture makes you polytheists first. Are you consistent or selective?



Polytheism Is About Worship, Not Vocabulary

Tawhid = worship Allah alone.

Humans share descriptive qualities (life, knowledge, mercy) but only in limited form.

Example: Allah is al-Ḥayy (The Ever-Living). You are alive. Does that make you Allah? Absurd.
Sharing words ≠ sharing divinity. Worship defines polytheism, not language.



Honorific Titles (Mujtaba, Mujtahid, etc.)

These aren’t part of Allah’s 99 Names.

They are honorifics just like Christians say “Father,” “Reverend,” or “Saint.”
If Muslims are polytheists for honoring prophets, then you are too for honoring clergy.



The Real polytheism

Muslims describe the Prophet pbuh with noble titles but never worship him.

Christians take a man (Jesus), worship him, pray to him, and call him co-equal with God.
That is actual shirk—partners in worship, not adjectives of praise.

Muslims use noble descriptions while worshipping Allah alone. Christians worship a man while accusing others of shirk. Which one truly violates God’s oneness?

honesttalk21:
You are making a basic category error that even a beginner in theology would avoid. Very unexpected of you.


Allah’s Names vs. Prophetic Descriptions

Allah’s Name are absolute, infinite, eternal.

When similar words are applied to prophets (e.g., Qur’an 9:128 calls Muhammad pbuh raʾuf, rahim; Qur’an 44:17 calls Moses karim), they are limited, descriptive, and relative.

That does not imply divinity it simply highlights noble qualities.



Consistency Check on the Bible

Bible calls humans “gods” (Psalm 82:6, John 10:34).

Judges are called elohim (Ex. 21:6).

Angels are called holy ones (Job 5:1)
By your own logic, your scripture makes you polytheists first. Are you consistent or selective?



Polytheism Is About Worship, Not Vocabulary

Tawhid = worship Allah alone.

Humans share descriptive qualities (life, knowledge, mercy) but only in limited form.

Example: Allah is al-Ḥayy (The Ever-Living). You are alive. Does that make you Allah? Absurd.
Sharing words ≠ sharing divinity. Worship defines polytheism, not language.



Honorific Titles (Mujtaba, Mujtahid, etc.)

These aren’t part of Allah’s 99 Names.

They are honorifics just like Christians say “Father,” “Reverend,” or “Saint.”
If Muslims are polytheists for honoring prophets, then you are too for honoring clergy.



The Real polytheism

Muslims describe the Prophet pbuh with noble titles but never worship him.

Christians take a man (Jesus), worship him, pray to him, and call him co-equal with God.
That is actual shirk—partners in worship, not adjectives of praise.

Muslims use noble descriptions while worshipping Allah alone. Christians worship a man while accusing others of shirk. Which one truly violates God’s oneness?

Rather than answering my questions, you decided to write every other things except about my direct questions.

1. You said: Allah’s Names vs. Prophetic Descriptions AND Allah’s Name are absolute, infinite, eternal.

But it is you Muslims who have 99 NAMES for Allah and 99 NAMES for Mohammed.
We now find out that Mohammed and Allah share some of these ABSOLUTE INFINITE Names.

Thus, Mohammed is aka Allah

2. You now said: Bible calls humans “gods” (Psalm 82:6, John 10:34). AND Judges are called elohim (Ex. 21:6).

Elohim mean DEITIES (plural) it doesn't mean YHWH thus any deity or god's fit in including humans when they have authority over men.

Another problem of Islam whose personal name of their God is just THE GOD since they d by that the name of their God is -LAH!

It is amazing when Mohammed is elevated in NAME to Allah and you still think you are not committing Shirk by associating the name of a man with Allah.

Then you mentioned Jesus and I laugh, Is Mohammed Allah who became human or a human who became Allah?

So, stop deflecting and answer my Questions
1. Do you know any other person who shares attributes with God apart from Mohammed?

2. These are NAMES of Allah example, you can call Allah by the name Al-Rahman or Al-Raheem just as you can call Allah by the names Al-Jabbar, Al-Karim, Al-Muhaymin, Al-Mujtaba, and Al-Ra'uf.

Can you disprove the LOGIC that if ANY or just ONE of these names are also the names of Mohammed , then Mohammed is Allah?

3. Does Mohammed share knowledge with Allah?
4. When you recite the shahada, do you not associate the name of Allah with then name of Mohammed?

BTW.
I wrote a piece for you and the moderator in the Islamic section was so scared that he deleted it.

Qur'an 105: The Evidence that Mohammed's Allah is the same pre-Islamic Allah

EVERYTHING including other people's comments were deleted overnight.

What is Islam hiding from Muslims?





Because, Muslims will delete it again, Here it is as a screenshot

TenQ:
Rather than answering my questions, you decided to write every other things except about my direct questions.

1. You said: Allah’s Names vs. Prophetic Descriptions AND Allah’s Name are absolute, infinite, eternal.

But it is you Muslims who have 99 NAMES for Allah and 99 NAMES for Mohammed.
We now find out that Mohammed and Allah share some of these ABSOLUTE INFINITE Names.

Thus, Mohammed is aka Allah

2. You now said: Bible calls humans “gods” (Psalm 82:6, John 10:34). AND Judges are called elohim (Ex. 21:6).

Elohim mean DEITIES (plural) it doesn't mean YHWH thus any deity or god's fit in including humans when they have authority over men.

Another problem of Islam whose personal name of their God is just THE GOD since they d by that the name of their God is -LAH!

It is amazing when Mohammed is elevated in NAME to Allah and you still think you are not committing Shirk by associating the name of a man with Allah.

Then you mentioned Jesus and I laugh, Is Mohammed Allah who became human or a human who became Allah?

So, stop deflecting and answer my Questions
1. Do you know any other person who shares attributes with God apart from Mohammed?

2. These are NAMES of Allah example, you can call Allah by the name Al-Rahman or Al-Raheem just as you can call Allah by the names Al-Jabbar, Al-Karim, Al-Muhaymin, Al-Mujtaba, and Al-Ra'uf.

Can you disprove the LOGIC that if ANY or just ONE of these names are also the names of Mohammed , then Mohammed is Allah?

3. Does Mohammed share knowledge with Allah?
4. When you recite the shahada, do you not associate the name of Allah with then name of Mohammed?

Deflecting you say? Now you know that first you show how deficient your learning is and still struggle to present what has already been answered.

Allah’s Names are absolute.
The 99 Names belong to Him alone, eternal and infinite. Muhammad pbuh doesn’t have “99 Names” . He has honorific titles like al-Amin (the Trustworthy), al-Mustafa (the Chosen). Descriptions of a servant, not divinity.

Word overlap ≠ shirk (polytheism)
Allah is al-Ra uf (Infinitely Compassionate), and the Prophet pbuh is described as rauf (compassionate to people). Same word, different scope. If this is shirk, then why does your Bible call Moses Elohim (Ex. 7:1) and humans gods (Psalm 82:6, John 10:34)? By your logic, your prophets were “aka Yahweh.” Absurd.

Reflection, not sharing.
Muhammad pbuh only reflects what Allah grants him of knowledge, mercy, compassion but all dependent and limited. Just like your prophets had divine knowledge revealed but were never God.

The Shahada proves separation.
It says: “No god but Allah”,divinity only for Allah. Then “Muhammad pbuh is His servant and messenger” pure distinction. If mentioning a prophet with God is shirk, then your Bible is guilty too: “Grace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ” (Rom. 1:7).


Elohim is plural in form, but its meaning depends on context. For YHWH, it’s a plural of majesty (with singular verbs).


The Bible itself applies elohim to humans:

Moses: “I have made you Elohim to Pharaoh” (Ex. 7:1).

Judges of Israel: “You are elohim” (Ps. 82:6), which Jesus himself cites (John 10:34).

When used for humans, elohim means authority/representative of God, not actual divinity.

TenQ:
BTW.
I wrote a piece for you and the moderator in the Islamic section was so scared that he deleted it.

Qur'an 105: The Evidence that Mohammed's Allah is the same pre-Islamic Allah

EVERYTHING including other people's comments were deleted overnight.

What is Islam hiding from Muslims?





Because, Muslims will delete it again, Here it is as a screenshot

You see how you contradict yourself. Did you not say moderators or the bots can read normally placed pictures before? A claim in defense of skewing your previous pictures sideways.


Your write-up has a serious flaw:

Allah was never an idol of Quraysh. Historians and even the Qur’an (29:61, 31:25) show the Quraysh already admitted Allah was the Supreme Creator their error was adding idols like Hubal, al-Lat, al-Uzza, and Manat as partners. Islam came to destroy those false gods and restore pure monotheism.


The “daughters of Allah” claim proves the opposite of your argument. The Qur’an condemns this (53:19–23), showing clearly that Allah ≠ those idols. Allah was never depicted or worshipped as a statue unlike Hubal, the Ka‘ba’s chief idol.


The Year of the Elephant (Surah al-Fil) was a known historical event, not a pagan myth. The Qur’an uses it as proof that the same Allah who protected His House then would aid His Messenger now.


Name ≠ concept. Arabs used the name “Allah” before Islam, just like Christians say “God” though the same word once described Zeus or Odin. The name remained, but Islam purified the meaning. Allah is the God of Abraham, not the corrupted version of Quraysh.

If “Allah” was just a pagan idol, explain why Arabic-speaking Christians before and after Islam have always called the God of the Bible “Allah.” Were they worshipping an idol too?

You now divert to other questions haven seen your earlier games of questions defeated. It all appears to be play for you.

honesttalk21:
You see how you contradict yourself. Did you not say moderators or the bots can read normally placed pictures before? A claim in defense of skewing your previous pictures sideways.

Yes I did BUT my post was manually removed by the moderator in charge of then islamic section with ALL the comments and responses of others

Thus, I pasted it upright knowing that the problem wasn't the Nairaland bots BUT a scared Muslim Moderator

TenQ:
Yes I did BUT my post was manually removed by the moderator in charge of then islamic section with ALL the comments and responses of others

Thus, I pasted it upright knowing that the problem wasn't the Nairaland bots BUT a scared Muslim Moderator

TenQ:
So, you concur that the God of Mohammed's father Abdullah is the same God of Mohammed.



You seem not to get the point.
The claim of Allah having daughters was before Mohammed. This Allah was the one that protected the Ka'aba with it's 360 idols from destruction.



I never said it was a pagan myth. If the story was true, the problem is why Allah was protecting the 360 idols in the Ka'aba.
However, the story is most likely not true because it is impossible to match an army of elephants through the desert except by miracle



Note that according to you Muslims Allah is a NAME and not a Title or Description of God. Unlike the word God or Sky Owner or Lord of the Heavens which are descriptions of the Creator.

Do you have evidence of any of the Prophet calling the name of their God as Allah?



What is the NAME of the Allah of the Arab Christians?


Play!?
No sir!
The problem is that you wish Islam is so true that you are willing to manufacture evidence to justify then indefensible

Abdullah’s name proves the point . The Prophet’s father was called ʿAbdullah (servant of Allah) before Islam began. Why? Because even Quraysh knew of Allah as the Supreme Creator (29:61, 31:25). Their error wasn’t in denying Him, but in adding idols as partners. Muhammad pbuh came to restore pure worship of the God they already acknowledged.

The Ka‘ba was Abraham’s house.Allah protected it in Surah al-Fīl not for the sake of idols, but because it was originally Abraham’s sanctuary for monotheism (2:125–127). If it had been destroyed, the mission of purification could not begin. Protection was for Abraham’s legacy, not idol-worship.

“Allah’s daughters” were pagan lies. Qur’an 53:19–23 exposes and refutes the false claim that angels/idols were Allah’s daughters.This proves Islam rejected paganism, it did not adopt it.

Allah is a proper name.Both Muslim and Christian Arabs always used Allah as the name of the one true God. The Arabic Bible still reads: Fi al-bad’i khalaqa Allah al-samawat wa al-ard” (In the beginning Allah created the heavens and the earth, Gen. 1:1). To this day, Arab Christians pray to Allah as the God of the Bible.

So the real question is If Allah was only a pagan idol, then why was the Prophet’s father named servant of Allah before Islam? And why do millions of Arab Christians today still call the God of the Bible Allah? Were they all idolaters too?


Either you admit Allah is the true God of Abraham, or you must call Moses, the judges of Israel, the Prophet’s father, and even Arab Christians all idolaters. Which one will you choose?

honesttalk21:
Abdullah’s name proves the point . The Prophet’s father was called ʿAbdullah (servant of Allah) before Islam began. Why? Because even Quraysh knew of Allah as the Supreme Creator (29:61, 31:25). Their error wasn’t in denying Him, but in adding idols as partners. Muhammad pbuh came to restore pure worship of the God they already acknowledged.

And Allah was aka Hubal!
And Allah protected the 360 idols in the Ka'aba

honesttalk21:
The Ka‘ba was Abraham’s house.Allah protected it in Surah al-Fīl not for the sake of idols, but because it was originally Abraham’s sanctuary for monotheism (2:125–127). If it had been destroyed, the mission of purification could not begin. Protection was for Abraham’s legacy, not idol-worship.

Prove this sir. Only Islamic sources attributes the Ka'aba to Abraham. Moreover, there are at least seven Ka'aba in the Arabia.
The Yemeni one is just one of these Ka'aba

Talk is cheap. Allan what is required is pre-Islamic evidence. QED!

honesttalk21:
“Allah’s daughters” were pagan lies. Qur’an 53:19–23 exposes and refutes the false claim that angels/idols were Allah’s daughters.This proves Islam rejected paganism, it did not adopt it.

This is according to Mohammed.
Is their any pre-Islamic narrative that agrees with you?

honesttalk21:
0
Allah is a proper name.Both Muslim and Christian Arabs always used Allah as the name of the one true God. The Arabic Bible still reads: Fi al-bad’i khalaqa Allah al-samawat wa al-ard” (In the beginning Allah created the heavens and the earth, Gen. 1:1). To this day, Arab Christians pray to Allah as the God of the Bible.

No sir. Allah is a generic name for God !
His real name is LAH!
Bismi-Lah
Abdul-Lah
Awusubi-Lah

All point to Lah as your God.

honesttalk21:
So the real question is If Allah was only a pagan idol, then why was the Prophet’s father named servant of Allah before Islam? And why do millions of Arab Christians today still call the God of the Bible Allah? Were they all idolaters too?

The name of the Allah/God of the Arab Christians is YHWH.

Is any of the 99 the names of the Allah of the Muslims YHWH?

honesttalk21:
Either you admit Allah is the true God of Abraham, or you must call Moses, the judges of Israel, the Prophet’s father, and even Arab Christians all idolaters. Which one will you choose?

Allah mean God (generic) like president, chairman or daddy. What is the name of the Allah of the Muslims?

Lev 19:12:
"And you shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shall you profane the name of your God: I am YHWH"

TenQ:
And Allah was aka Hubal!
And Allah protected the 360 idols in the Ka'aba



Prove this sir. Only Islamic sources attributes the Ka'aba to Abraham. Moreover, there are at least seven Ka'aba in the Arabia.
The Yemeni one is just one of these Ka'aba

Talk is cheap. Allan what is required is pre-Islamic evidence. QED!


This is according to Mohammed.
Is their any pre-Islamic narrative that agrees with you?


No sir. Allah is a generic name for God !
His real name is LAH!
Bismi-Lah
Abdul-Lah
Awusubi-Lah

All point to Lah as your God.


The name of the Allah/God of the Arab Christians is YHWH.

Is any of the 99 the names of the Allah of the Muslims YHWH?


Allah mean God (generic) like president, chairman or daddy. What is the name of the Allah of the Muslims?

Lev 19:12:
"And you shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shall you profane the name of your God: I am YHWH"

A final response to you as indeed your questions/statement are unserious and far from genuine. I have no time for silly play.

tenq's claim that Allah was just a pagan idol like Hubal is fals for these reasons:

1. Allah ≠ Hubal. Even the Quraysh admitted Allah was the Creator (Qur’an 29:61). Hubal was just one stone idol among 360. They never said Hubal made the heavens.

2. Allah did not ‘protect idols.’ Surah al-Fīl says Allah protected His House, the Ka‘bah built by Abraham as a sanctuary for monotheism. Yes, Quraysh polluted it with idols, but Muhammad pbuh later cleansed it forever. The protection was for the House, not for the idols.

3. Pre-Islamic proof of Allah’s supremacy.

Jahili poet Labid ibn Rabia said that‘Apart from Allah, everything is vain before Islam.

Arab Christians in Najran prayed to Allah in their liturgies, and the earliest Arabic Bibles use Allah for Elohim/YHWH.


4. Hubal was never equated with Allah. Historians like W. Montgomery Watt confirm: Allah was known to the Quraysh as a high God above the idols; Hubal was never equated with Allah.

5. The Ka‘bah’s Abrahamic link. Even Greek historian Diodorus Siculus (1st c. BC) described a sacred sanctuary in Arabia, almost certainly the Ka‘bah, tied to Abraham long before Islam.

And about your ‘Lah’ distortion that Allah comes from al-Ilah ;The God.’The lah in Bismillah or ʿAbdullah is just part of Allah’s name, not a separate deity. Even the Prophet’s father, ʿAbdullah meaning “servant of Allah bore that name before Islam, proving Allah was always understood as the Supreme God, not an idol.

If Allah was just a pagan idol, why did pre-Islamic poets exalt Him above all idols, why do Arab Christians still pray to Him today, and why did Quraysh themselves admit Allah created the heavens and the earth? Clearly, Allah is the eternal Creator not Hubal, not ‘Lah,’ and not an idol.

Then how do you expect me to believe that ancient city walls just collapsed because people marched around them and blew trumpets? Come on. Stone doesn’t crumble from noise and footsteps. If this story is taken literally, it doesn’t add up.

honesttalk21:
Look, here’s the thing;when people bring up the aorta verse, they make it sound like God promised Muhammad pbuh would die suddenly if he was false. But just step back and think.He lived more than a decade after that verse was revealed, saw his religion spread across Arabia, gave his farewell sermon in front of thousands, and passed away at home with his family after finishing his mission. Does that really look like a man cut off in disgrace? Or does it look like someone who actually completed what he was sent for?


And about Islam spread by the sword… well, history is full of wars. But the Prophet’s battles were defensive. At Badr, Uhud, the Confederates Muslims were literally fighting to survive. That’s a huge difference from conquering just for blood or land. If you say that’s violent, then Moses also fought, even harsher, because God commanded him to execute idolaters and lead wars. So you can’t dismiss Muhammad pbuh without also dismissing Moses.

On Jesus, the Bible itself shows him struggling. In Gethsemane, he asked God three times to let this cup pass.On the cross, he cried Why have you forsaken me? That sounds like someone desperate for rescue, not someone excited for crucifixion. Islam actually defends his honor here saying God saved him, like He saved Moses from Pharaoh and Abraham from the fire. Doesn’t that make more sense than humiliation being the path to salvation?

As for the Prophet’s pbuh death, he didn’t just collapse suddenly from some curse. He lived years after the poisoning incident, finished his mission, and passed away with dignity. That’s not humiliation that’s fulfillment.

Then considering that there were no symptoms for over three years after and the illness appeared just days before his death, it seems highly unlikely that the Khaybar poisoning was the cause of the Prophet Muhammad’s pbuh passing. An acute terminal illness is a much more plausible explanation.

In what way did we make it sound that he was to collapse suddenly 🥱. The crux of the matter is that ’mo’ went has Allah spoke of him, if he were to be false!

The rest of your point is irrelevant. For Jesus expressed his physical side. This is also a shambolic attempt to deflect the subject matter.

While you might claim that your prophet fought ’defensive wars’ they are not the same as the wars fought by Moses—that's faulty analogy/assumption. The context of both are different but your prophet made a generalization of his own wars.

Once again straw, God's judgement doesn't necessarily translate to ’collapsing suddenly’ for it can come in diverse forms—’lamb poisoning’ comes to mind

The prophet's affirmation renders your assumption wrong! He did feel it, thus it lingered on.

Julia25:
In what way did we make it sound that he was to collapse suddenly 🥱. The crux of the matter is that ’mo’ went has Allah spoke of him, if he were to be false!

The rest of your point is irrelevant. For Jesus expressed his physical side. This is also a shambolic attempt to deflect the subject matter.

While you might claim that your prophet fought ’defensive wars’ they are not the same as the wars fought by Moses—that's faulty analogy/assumption. The context of both are different but your prophet made a generalization of his own wars.

Once again straw, God's judgement doesn't necessarily translate to ’collapsing suddenly’ for it can come in diverse forms—’lamb poisoning’ comes to mind

The prophet's affirmation renders your assumption wrong! He did feel it, thus it lingered on.

Nice for you to comment though I don't quite understand your first paragraph. Then if it is partly understood do you suggest revelation is to come after prophet Muhammad pbuh?

In the Qur’an (69:44–46), Allah states that if Muhammad pbuh were to fabricate revelations, He would severe his al-watīn (aorta). The message is clear and urgent, indicating immediate judgment rather than a slow demise.

However, the Prophet pbuh lived for another decade after this verse, completing the message of Islam (5:3). If he were indeed false, Allah’s warning would have come before the mission was fulfilled.

According to the Hadith (Bukhari 4428), the Prophet pbuh remarked during his illness, It feels like my abhari (artery) is being cut. Do you imply that abhari and al-watin are the same?

It’s important to note that al-watin (from the Qur’an) is not the same as abhar (from the Hadith).

The Qur’an delivers a literal divine judgment, while the Hadith uses metaphor to express pain. Confusing the two is a linguistic error.


The poisoning at Khaybar (7 AH) didn’t stop the Prophet pbuh; he continued to lead Islam for four more years, guiding it to prominence. Do you state this to be false?

His death in 11 AH was due to a natural illness, witnessed by his companions, rather than a sudden divine intervention.

Experiencing suffering is part of the prophetic journey.
Job faced illness, Jacob lost his sight, Moses experienced fear, and Jesus (as per the Bible) was crucified. Suffering does not equate to falsehood.


If verse 69:46 implied lingering pain,then it would apply to everyone’s death, rendering it meaningless.

Since the Prophet pbuh lived to witness the completion of Islam, the Qur’an itself stands as evidence that he was not seized in falsehood.

Then regarding me refferencing the suffering of Jesus you called it shambolic though I wasn't trying to dodge the main issue since suffering doesn't equate to falsehood.

It's actually the crux of the matter. If we say that a prophet is false because they experience physical pain, illness, or suffering, then we have to apply that same logic to Jesus, who endured immense suffering on the cross. The Qur’an, the Bible, and historical accounts all illustrate that prophets were fully human and experienced physical frailty. Their physical experiences don’t discredit them; rather, they highlight their humanity.

honesttalk21:
You see how you contradict yourself. Did you not say moderators or the bots can read normally placed pictures before? A claim in defense of skewing your previous pictures sideways.


Your write-up has a serious flaw:

Allah was never an idol of Quraysh. Historians and even the Qur’an (29:61, 31:25) show the Quraysh already admitted Allah was the Supreme Creator their error was adding idols like Hubal, al-Lat, al-Uzza, and Manat as partners. Islam came to destroy those false gods and restore pure monotheism.


The “daughters of Allah” claim proves the opposite of your argument. The Qur’an condemns this (53:19–23), showing clearly that Allah ≠ those idols. Allah was never depicted or worshipped as a statue unlike Hubal, the Ka‘ba’s chief idol.


The Year of the Elephant (Surah al-Fil) was a known historical event, not a pagan myth. The Qur’an uses it as proof that the same Allah who protected His House then would aid His Messenger now.


Name ≠ concept. Arabs used the name “Allah” before Islam, just like Christians say “God” though the same word once described Zeus or Odin. The name remained, but Islam purified the meaning. Allah is the God of Abraham, not the corrupted version of Quraysh.

If “Allah” was just a pagan idol, explain why Arabic-speaking Christians before and after Islam have always called the God of the Bible “Allah.” Were they worshipping an idol too?

You now divert to other questions haven seen your earlier games of questions defeated. It all appears to be play for you.

Let's start from the beginning
Can U tell us the etymology of the word 'Allah'