₦airaland Forum

saddler:
There is a difference between calling your kings sky gods and actually narrating how they fell from the sky.

You can never get a narration of kings in Benin coming/falling from the sky.

So, your Ogisos came from where?

chopnaira:
Same same..
The mythology of Ife says oduduwa descended from the sky.
The mythology of benin says the ogiso descended from the sky.

Not same. Kings of heaven/sky is just a title. There is no narration of the kings descending from the sky.
I repeat no Benin myths/folklore has any story of Ogisos descending from the sky.

But the Yorubas have Oduduwa descending from the sky with chains.

seunmsg:
So, your Ogisos came from where?

Ogisos are humans. They are born.
But the Benin culture has it that a king is not choosen on earth. That to become a king on earth, you are already choosen in heaven. That's why kingship is by inheritance in Benin

aribisala0:
Some things are irrelevant
Whether Old Ife kings were called Ooni or not is not relevant and you simply have no way of knowing that because you were not there

That is just a diversionary argument

Lagos was not always called Lagos so what?

Throwing in random unverifiable claims does not advance the argument
Claiming odu ifa is another unnecessary diversionary device
Are you a babalawo? Let us not get into all of that

The issues are simple
Today there is no basis for anyone to claim he is paramount king in Yoruba land .
There is nothing like Yorubaland. We can maybe talk of Yoruba land but not Yorubaland. So I agree that Ooni should not make such titles but NO ONE SHOULD. NOT OONI NOT ALAAFIN

Ooni of Ife is just like maybe the Pope

Elegushi and Oba of Lagos are more relevant than. Alaafin

The Alaafin can install the Aare ona Kakanfo and the title is recognized across Yoruba land. That is more or less the only title like that. Then the Alaafin is the most senior Oyo king representing the overall Oyo culture of Oyo, Ibadan, Ogbomosho, Ilorin. That is quite a lot. The Ibadan empire claimed to be working on behalf of the Alaafin and Ogedengbe of Ijesa before falling out with Ibadan went on expedition on behalf of Ibadan as far as Benin and etc. Ibadan was Oyo and was controlling Yoruba land up till the outbreak of the Kiriji war. Yoruba land was a consortium of sovereign states like the Greek states which fought amongst themselves and Oyo was the most successful in the past few centuries. Ife has been under protection since time immemorial. In the past the place was seen as a holy land and not a political headquarters. You can't be that when you are under protection

lawani:
The Alaafin can install the Aare ona Kakanfo and the title is recognized across Yoruba land. That is more or less the only title like that. Then the Alaafin is the most senior Oyo king representing the overall Oyo culture of Oyo, Ibadan, Ogbomosho, Ilorin. That is quite a lot. The Ibadan empire claimed to be working on behalf of the Alaafin and Ogedengbe of Ijesa before falling out with Ibadan went on expedition on behalf of Ibadan as far as Benin and etc. Ibadan was Oyo and was controlling Yoruba land up till the outbreak of the Kiriji war. Yoruba land was a consortium of sovereign states like the Greek states which fought amongst themselves and Oyo was the most successful in the past few centuries. Ife has been under protection since time immemorial. In the past the place was seen as a holy land and not a political headquarters. You can't be that when you are under protection

You are making a declaration that has no meaning

all titles by all Obas are recognised

Aare Ona Kakanfo of Oyo is his prerogative

There is nothing like Yorubaland There is Yoruba land which means lands occupied by different historical Yoruba nations

I am not here to discuss what DOES NOT MATTER
I am from Lagos state and there is nothing like Aare Ona Kakanfo here


Aare Ona Kakanfo is a title relevant to OYO EMPIRE
IF nations that were previously part of that empire have Japa and are now independent how can you be Aare over them ? Aare is a title particularly relevant to empire expansion and if your empire is shrinking and you continue claiming Aare over lost territory either you are looking for trouble or are delusional


Aare no reach Lagos

Smartcitizen:
When Reno Omokri was on the mission to expose Tinubu's criminal activities, was he a gift at that time too?

Just asking for Nairalanders.....🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Indeed, if not Nigeria politicians are most shameless on earth, neither Reno could become hosanna singer for; nor Tinubu accept him even with whatever form of repentance judging by how Reno has engaged in character assassination of Tinubu as a person and as politician.

Oranmiyan left his throne for another throne to protect his throne.
He knew that if he allowed the ooni throne to be desecrated, he would lose an important ally.
And again, he left for the ooni throne to ensure that there is no challenge to the alaafin's throne and that there is no will to wage war against the alaafin's throne.
I hope lere's questions have been answered.

googi:
Most of the misunderstanding came from all Oba (s) trying to elevate themselves as par with the Queen or King of England.

Ooni is a unique title in Yoruba world. It was the Ooni that crowned Oba, the descendants or children of Ife that established themselves over their domains as they moved out of Ife and expanded.

Alafin was a Prince of Ife and Oduduwa that became a powerful General that came to the rescue of Ife and other Yoruba.

Until them Alafin himself was routed and driven out of Oyo by Fulani.

It was Ibadan that later played the role of Yoruba Protector like Alafin. Ibadan save Yoruba by stopping Fulani at Osogbo.

No English word can fully translate into Yoruba. Ooni crowned Oba (Kings). The title of king is below him.

The truth is, Fulani never destroyed Oyo. Na Yorubas from Ilorin use their own hand destroy Oyo with the little aid of Fulanis.

Malawian:
All these Bini revisionism started after they met the Portuguese who gave them guns and as such, came out of the Igbo Yoke who used to rule Idu (Binin city).

Their attempt at revisionism is why their stories and that of Yoruba people does not tally.

Meanwhile, there is actually nobody in history known as Oduduwa. There is no archaeological evidence anybody known as Oduduwa ever existed.

All are just fables.

Oduduwa's Grave is in Ile Ife
You are free to verify it

LARRYOBRAIN:
See it here

Omo, if this is true, then it means that the Ooni really has no relevance in the grand scheme of things. This is shocking oooo.

DanseMacabre:
Omo, if this is true, then it means that the Ooni really has no relevance in the grand scheme of things. This is shocking oooo.

They know the truth. Ooni was just a priest or caretaker who assumed the role of king with little relevance for several generations until recently. Most of the writings were just mere manipulations to fill gaps. It's only Oranmiyan that actively demonstrated any semblance of what is seen as royalty today and his undiluted lineage is what you have in Oyo.

saddler:
There is a difference between calling your kings sky gods and actually narrating how they fell from the sky.

You can never get a narration of kings in Benin coming/falling from the sky.

Whether na true their narration or ya owns narration, skylord na skylord. Stop sugarcoating cos there's no difference. You painted myth of some people to be false and yours has similar falsehood. It will end back coming to mockery for ya own people too. In fact, no let people drag you like tiger generator as you try to sugarcoat ya people's own as if Una dey special. You all are descendants of ham.

forgiveness:
The truth is, Fulani never destroyed Oyo. Na Yorubas from Ilorin use their own hand destroy Oyo with the little aid of Fulanis.

You seem to be right

Exousiang01:
The office of the Ooni is that of a chief priest the Ooni is not a king, the OOni is never superior. You are saying the opposite.

There is no historical support of the claim that Oranmiyan left Oyo to contest for Ooni of Ife as implied by Lere Olayinka.

There is also no historical support for any claim that Alaafin of Oyo was a subject of Ooni of Ife.

It is widely acknowledged historically that Oduduwa was the first Ooni of Ife and some historians also claim Oranmiyan was the 3rd or 4th Ooni of Ife before leaving for Benin Kingdom and then Oyo. There is no doubt that the Ooni of Ife role is a Priest-King.

However, to.claim that the Ooni of Ife was just a lineage of priests and not a descendant of Oduduwa does not align with the historically conduct and traditions of the Yoruba. It is very doubtful that the descendants of Oduduwa would be comfortable having a non-descendant priest sit on the ancestral throne of their father. The titles of Ooni Adimula and Arole Oodua ("Heir of Oduduwa" are difficult to explain from a non-descendant view point. While well known Obas tracing descent from Oduduwa have not generally ceded any superiority politically to the Ooni of Ife, they have nonetheless respect the Ooni of Ife as the Arole Oduduwa and custodian of their historical and cultural heritage. To think they would cede such important role to a non-descendant is irreconcilable with Yoruba historical conduct and traditions.

lawani:
The Alaafin can install the Aare ona Kakanfo and the title is recognized across Yoruba land. That is more or less the only title like that. Then the Alaafin is the most senior Oyo king representing the overall Oyo culture of Oyo, Ibadan, Ogbomosho, Ilorin. That is quite a lot. The Ibadan empire claimed to be working on behalf of the Alaafin and Ogedengbe of Ijesa before falling out with Ibadan went on expedition on behalf of Ibadan as far as Benin and etc. Ibadan was Oyo and was controlling Yoruba land up till the outbreak of the Kiriji war. Yoruba land was a consortium of sovereign states like the Greek states which fought amongst themselves and Oyo was the most successful in the past few centuries. Ife has been under protection since time immemorial. In the past the place was seen as a holy land and not a political headquarters. You can't be that when you are under protection

There is nothing like Aare Ona Kakanofo of Yoruba land. It is Aare Ona Kakanofo of Oyo. All the previous Aare from Kokoro Gangan to Aare Latosha were all Aare Ona Kakanfo of Oyo. It was when politicians started taking the title from Ladoke Akintola that they started calling it Aare of Yoruba land. Nothing like that exist historically.

If the Aare Ona Kakanfo is for Yoruba land, an Aare would not be required upon assuming office to attack and conquer a Yoruba town of Alaafin’s dictate. Or does it make sense to you that a war General will wage war against his own country?

Aare Kurunmi was killed by Ibadan forces. Aare Latosha was killed at the Ekiti parapo war. So, if Aare is for Yoruba land, why are fellow Yorubas killing them?

See, you guys should give this matter a rest. Your Alaafin is just a relic of history. He should remain in Ago Oja to preserve the history of an empire that once existed. He is just one of the numerous kings in Oyo state and nothing else. No one recognizes him outside of Oyo village.

Kindledlight:
Probably you goggled first class Obas in Yorubaland and not how traditional rulers are placed in Nigeria. For instance when Prince Charles, now king of England visited Nigeria, Aalafin couldn’t even make it to see him and take photographs of first class kings in Nigeria with him.

The reasons i don’t know because I thought he suppose to be there but right now the protocol says that Oba of Benin kingdom is regarded above Aalafin.

Check this picture below to see what I am saying.


https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTGdUWY_cRwFKRMLpkz0n9RaSz9Q7bcc_LF6A&usqp=CAU

Read history to understand that Alaafin is above Oba of Benin.
Ooni
Alaafin
Oba of Benin
That is the hierarchy..
Secondly Ekalardahan is not Oduduwa.
The Prince died in Guaton It was the late Oba that wanted to rewrite history in this century,unfortunately for him,things were documented long ago.

googi:
Most of the misunderstanding came from all Oba (s) trying to elevate themselves as par with the Queen or King of England.

Ooni is a unique title in Yoruba world. It was the Ooni that crowned Oba, the descendants or children of Ife that established themselves over their domains as they moved out of Ife and expanded.

Alafin was a Prince of Ife and Oduduwa that became a powerful General that came to the rescue of Ife and other Yoruba.

Until them Alafin himself was routed and driven out of Oyo by Fulani.

It was Ibadan that later played the role of Yoruba Protector like Alafin. Ibadan save Yoruba by stopping Fulani at Osogbo.

No English word can fully translate into Yoruba. Ooni crowned Oba (Kings). The title of king is below him.

.You are talking about Jalumi war.Fulanis were decimated by the Ibadan decisively but when they got to ilorin and took over,the whites came from Lagos and told them to leave the Emir.

Oduduwa was not an Ooni. He was the king.

The title Ooni started with Adimu. The son of a slave sacrificed to the gods. He was raised by Oduduwa and he became important in the royal household. And that was why he was placed in charge of the kingdom when Oranyan moved to Oyo.

Babinski:
There is no historical support of the claim that Oranmiyan left Oyo to contest for Ooni of Ife as implied by Lere Olayinka.

There is also no historical support for any claim that Alaafin of Oyo was a subject of Ooni of Ife.

It is widely acknowledged historically that Oduduwa was the first Ooni of Ife and some historians also claim Oranmiyan was the 3rd or 4th Ooni of Ife before leaving for Benin Kingdom and then Oyo. There is no doubt that the Ooni of Ife role is a Priest-King.

However, to.claim that the Ooni of Ife was just a lineage of priests and not a descendant of Oduduwa does not align with the historically conduct and traditions of the Yoruba. It is very doubtful that the descendants of Oduduwa would be comfortable having a non-descendant priest sit on the ancestral throne of their father. The titles of Ooni Adimula and Arole Oodua ("Heir of Oduduwa" are difficult to explain from a non-descendant view point. While well known Obas tracing descent from Oduduwa have not generally ceded any superiority politically to the Ooni of Ife, they have nonetheless respect the Ooni of Ife as the Arole Oduduwa and custodian of their historical and cultural heritage. To think they would cede such important role to a non-descendant is irreconcilable with Yoruba historical conduct and traditions.

Brenbentondiaz:
If Yorubas came from Bini, how come you find Bini people with Yoruba names, but Yorubas don't bear Bini names. Obinna, I know you may not understand this logic.

there is no Benin person with a yoruba name, your argument makes no sense, ife could never have given Benin a monarchy, when ife never truly practiced monarchy, in ancient ife Kings where being made by coups even a slave once ruled ife, strangers were once ooni of ife, anyone who was strong enough to wrestle the crown from the palace automatically becomes ooni, before oduduwa Benin kingdom existed and Benin had a king can you explain why a people who already had a kingship would allow a stranger from ife to become king in Benin? Only three ways this could have happened it's either through a palace coup, a war, or the stranger was already family.

Putinofrussia:
Read history to understand that Alaafin is above Oba of Benin.
Ooni
Alaafin
Oba of Benin
That is the hierarchy..
Secondly Ekalardahan is not Oduduwa.
The Prince died in Guaton It was the late Oba that wanted to rewrite history in this century,unfortunately for him,things were documented long ago.

The Benin Kingdom was established before the Oyo, both by Oranmiyan. So the Oba if Benin's throne is and superior and senior to Alaafin. The Oyo Kingdom was only recognized because if military prowess, not because of historical or spiritual hierarchy.

Goodlady:
Whether na true their narration or ya owns narration, skylord na skylord. Stop sugarcoating cos there's no difference. You painted myth of some people to be false and yours has similar falsehood. It will end back coming to mockery for ya own people too. In fact, no let people drag you like tiger generator as you try to sugarcoat ya people's own as if Una dey special. You all are descendants of ham.

Let me give you an example. The title of Olu of Warri is called Ogiame. This literally means Lord of the waters. Ogiame and Ogiso are both Edoid words having the prefix "Ogie" meaning Lord.
The other words "iso" and "Ame" means Sky and water respectively.
These words Ogiso and Ogiame do not mean descendant from sky or water. As the Itsekiri people do not see their king as descending from water despite being called Ogiame.

I hope you get it

chopnaira:
Ekaladerhan died in Ughoton (Guaton).

Benin never extended beyond Lagos Island. It is false that Benin expanded to Dahomey. The only Oba the dahomeans paid tribute to was the Alaafin. Dahomeans were conquered by Oyo during the peak of Oyo empire.

nah you kill am for ughoton? The way you speak with so much confidence, you guys always try to rewrite history I wonder why? Before ife was formed Benin kingdom already had 31 Kings and it was all by bloodline, why would Benin kingdom/ igodomigodo allow a strangers from yoruba land to come and be a king if he weren't known to them or if he weren't a family/ bloodline of the palace. The way you guys just lie to yourselves about how ife founded Benin like Benin kingdom was in existence before ife, and ife doesn't even have a direct line of succession several characters ruled over ife, a slave was once ooni, if you can stage a palace coup you get to be ooni.

Iphupa:
Lere and reno
.. 2 men who are almost perfect at whatever they do. You just have to wonder how learned and informed they are

They are Professionals, Simple.

Smartcitizen:
When Reno Omokri was on the mission to expose Tinubu's criminal activities, was he a gift at that time too?

Just asking for Nairalanders.....🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Why did you think the Tinubu camp went for him and eventually got him to be on their side?
The guy is so good, they see him as an asset ,and a professional that will take any brief so long as it's lucrative.
Let Peter Obi give him a lucrative deal and see if he won't take it
Reno was Among the first known influencers in Nigeria, which landed him the role of SA on social media to GEJ.

APC guys don know am since the days he will impersonate Wendel Simlin and be attacking them until they found him out and exposed his fraud. Still GEJ shielded him from any negative fallout of his impersonation.

Aláàfin and his backers must be on sort of weed imported from south America.

Shattuck:
I see a lot of you trying to rewrite history by laying claim to how the yoruba gave Benin a king, and how Benin came out of ife, I have some questions for you
1. If ife truly gave Benin a king, how did they do it considering the fact that Benin kingdom already existed as at the time and Benin kingdom already had a monarchy which is still present till today?
2. Only two ways this could have been possible, it's either through a war, a palace coup, or if the people never had a system of leadership, but the Benin kingdom/igodomigodo already existed so why would a king abandon his palace for a stranger, if you say through war conquest it is not on record that ife and Benin fought a war, and even if a war was fought ife could never have defeated the Benin kingdom because the Benin kingdom was larger and likely more powerful. You see why the yoruba version of event of how ife founded Benin kingdom never made sense. Now let me tell you why the Benin version of event makes sense.
1. A Benin prince once ruled over ife, ife was never a monarchy, ife never had a true leadership that's why several people ruled over it, in ancient ife power was taken through a coup, anyone strong enough to wrestle the palace gets to be ooni, even a slave once ruled over ife, strangers were ooni, even till today the throne of ooni does not follow a direct bloodline it is being rotated among certain elite families, how then does it make sense that and ife who had no direct line of leadership, who never practiced ,understood, and respected monarchical system of leadership now founded the Benin monarchy? Which is one of the oldest and most respected monarchical leadership.
2. If a slave once ruled over ife why then do you guys find it hard to believe that a Benin prince also ruled over ife?
3. It is often claimed by the yoruba version that oduduwa was not from ife why then do you find it hard to believe that he might have been from Benin?
4. According to both the Benin and yoruba tale one thing is common to both someone came from ife and became king, it couldn't have been a stranger because a war would have been fought for him to become oba of benin, and if he was truly a yoruba prince then the Benin kingdom would have been totally colonized we would have been speaking yoruba, adopted everything yoruba, bearing yoruba names, but this didn't happen, you know why because when that guy came from ife he was already known to the Benin palace as a son of the palace that's how he became king. IFE NEVER GAVE BENIN AN OBA
BENIN KINGDOM GAVE IFE AN OONI

Even with all the evidence posted from the time when my father was not even birthed,you are still arguing.
We have nothing to gain financially from this old history but you can't reinvent the wheel,you cant rewrite the history of Benin.
The greatest of Benin historian was Jacob Egharevba, his book
(Ekharavbi itan Edo (1933) and its first translation A short history of Benin (Lagos, C.M.S Bookshop1936)
opened thus ...Many, many years ago, Odua ( oduduwa) of uhe( Ile-Ife) the father and the progenitor

of the Yoruba Kings sent his eldest son Obagodo who took the title of Ogiso with a

large retinue all the way from Uhe to found a Kingdom in this part of the World.

At the moment of his departure his father gave him a charm in the form of a snail

shell containing some earth to invest him with absolute power and right over the

lands that should come under his sway".P.7


The first and all other Ogisos are from Oduduwa which means that Yorubas were the progenitors of those Ogisos and later Eweka,the first Oba of Benin.

Everything revolved around Yoruba.


Would you dispute his narration and all the evidences that negate your opinion?

oz4real83:
the Oba of Benin is the father of them all. Izoduwa that was corrupted to Oduduwa was a Benin Prince who migrated to Oyo after being banished from the Benin empire. It was he that became the first Alaafin of oyo and gave birth to the first Ooni of ife and his last born also became the Oba of Benin. The yorubas will never agree that Oduduwa came from Benin. They would rather tell you either fell he from the sky or he came from Egypt using Air peace, uber cab or tesla🤣🤣🤣

I think you are very right coz if you ask them to tell you the meaning of oduduwa in Yoruba, they won't. It even have an Igbo meaning sef

Shattuck:
see a lot of you trying to rewrite history by laying claim to how the yoruba gave Benin a king, and how Benin came out of ife, I have some questions for you
1. If ife truly gave Benin a king, how did they do it considering the fact that Benin kingdom already existed as at the time and Benin kingdom already had a monarchy which is still present till today?
2. Only two ways this could have been possible, it's either through a war, a palace coup, or if the people never had a system of leadership, but the Benin kingdom/igodomigodo already existed so why would a king abandon his palace for a stranger, if you say through war conquest it is not on record that ife and Benin fought a war, and even if a war was fought ife could never have defeated the Benin kingdom because the Benin kingdom was larger and likely more powerful. You see why the yoruba version of event of how ife founded Benin kingdom never made sense. Now let me tell you why the Benin version of event makes sense.
1. A Benin prince once ruled over ife, ife was never a monarchy, ife never had a true leadership that's why several people ruled over it, in ancient ife power was taken through a coup, anyone strong enough to wrestle the palace gets to be ooni, even a slave once ruled over ife, strangers were ooni, even till today the throne of ooni does not follow a direct bloodline it is being rotated among certain elite families, how then does it make sense that and ife who had no direct line of leadership, who never practiced ,understood, and respected monarchical system of leadership now founded the Benin monarchy? Which is one of the oldest and most respected monarchical leadership.
2. If a slave once ruled over ife why then do you guys find it hard to believe that a Benin prince also ruled over ife?
3. It is often claimed by the yoruba version that oduduwa was not from ife why then do you find it hard to believe that he might have been from Benin?
4. According to both the Benin and yoruba tale one thing is common to both someone came from ife and became king, it couldn't have been a stranger because a war would have been fought for him to become oba of benin, and if he was truly a yoruba prince then the Benin kingdom would have been totally colonized we would have been speaking yoruba, adopted everything yoruba, bearing yoruba names, but this didn't happen, you know why because when that guy came from ife he was already known to the Benin palace as a son of the palace that's how he became king. IFE NEVER GAVE BENIN AN OBA
BENIN KINGDOM GAVE IFE AN OONI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7lEgZTKCVI



The Bible says in the mouth of at least two withnesses let every fact be established

This is the Ijaw version and it tally’s perfectly with the Yoruba version

Adaisback:
I think you are very right coz if you ask them to tell you the meaning of oduduwa in Yoruba, they won't. It even have an Igbo meaning sef

Ifa people or older people know the meaning in Yoruba and it is something like...Odu to da iwa....shortened to Oduduwa.
The relevant thing is how Benin historians recorded their history long,, long ago before the last Benin Oba tried to rewrite history.

Zeebuy:
Yoruba leaders are always wrestling in the mud like pigs. Just imagine how these ones are behaving like typical agberos.

Warrant chiefs seed spotted..