₦airaland Forum

Image123:
What governing body if i may ask? Does that guy work in Aso Rock?

He's JW so he's referring to the Governing Body of his organisation.

LordReed:
I was referring to dark matter. As for the starting conditions we have no evidence beyond the breakdown of all the physical laws as we know them as we extrapolate mathematically to that start point. To form any kind of coherent framework for that requires what we don't currently have.

To answer your questions:

1. Let's put it like this: If the universe is all there is then it makes sense that it is just expanding, not expanding into something because then that something it is expanding into will also have to be considered part of the universe. So you either need to retool what you mean by universe or explain how the universe exists as separate from what it is supposedly expanding into.

It apears that your definition of the word "universe" is something akin to "everything that exists." If this is the case then we have a problem. It is neither the scientific definition nor capable of any serious use in a discussion such as this.

For it to be said that this universe is expanding, there must be a finite understanding of what this universe is in the first place. Trying to say that anyting outside it, which it may be expanding into must needs be part of the self same universe defeats the definition of "universe" being used by the cosmologists in the first place, and in the second place it actually means that one cannot even discuss anything expanding at all!

2. As far as I know spacetime is a concept to explain how some unintuitive things occur and all action began with the birth of spacetime. If that is the case, then there is no way to coherently express action before there was a spacetime for the action to occur in. This is a limitation on our understanding because obviously the universe is here so there was an occurrence, but we have no way to coherently express what it could have been.

My reasoning is simple, and here it is -

To the extent that the initial expansion which is called the big bang was movement, was an expansion, then there must have been already existing space and therefore space cannot be said to have been created by the bang.

Also to the extent that it was an event, and events can only occur in an already existing timeline then time could not be said to have been created by the bang either.

Summarily, whatever the scientists are referring to as space-time is actualy something else. They have simply appropriated that term.

Conscisely: I am saying -

1. There cannot be any movement without existing space - and -
2. There cannot be any event without existing time

Therefore -

Since the big bang was an event and involved movement, both time and space must have already existed.

LordReed:
He's JW so he's referring to the Governing Body of his organisation.

That's laughable and unreasonable. So we can say unreasonably laughable.

LordReed:
LoLz. You've started again. Where did I ask you to help me become a member of the Governing Body?

LordReed:
So make me a GB member first let the god be doing his own thing. LMFAO!

This is what you (LordReed) typed with your own fingers on October 27/2021 at exactly 5:22pm begging me to make you a member of the Governing Body because you want prominence among faithful people thinking it's all about gathering material possessions.

So from that very moment i know you can't be among faithful people because humility is what God cherish! Zephaniah 2:2-3

Image123:
That's laughable and unreasonable. So we can say unreasonably laughable.

So Boxer, you dont know that JW witnesses are led by a group called "the Governing Body?"

MaxInDHouse:
This is what you (LordReed) typed with your own fingers on October 27/2021 at exactly 5:22pm begging me to make you a member of the Governing Body because you want prominence among faithful people thinking it's all about gathering material possessions.

So from that very moment i know you can't be among faithful people because humility is what God cherish! Zephaniah 2:2-3

You mean the sarcasm missed you?
Na wah oh.

DeepSight:
You mean the sarcasm missed you?
Na wah oh.

You called it SARCASM but according to a wise man it's out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks! Luke 6:45

From what you utter we know the type of person you really are on the inside.

You claim you're humble that's why i engaged you, he is interrupting what we are saying not because he has anything tangible to offer that's why i reminded him of his wish something he has in mind when he was going to the churches: worldly riches not righteousness!

MaxInDHouse:
You called it SARCASM but according to a wise man it's out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks! Luke 6:45

From what you utter we know the type of person you really are on the inside.

You claim you're humble that's why i engaged you, he is interrupting what we are saying not because he has anything tangible to offer that's why i reminded him of his wish something he has in mind when he was going to the churches: worldly riches not righteousness!

Let us discuss.

As a teenager, I veered towards becoming a Jehovah's Witness. I was introduced to their literature by my late father. He wasnt one, but liked the literature. There is literally none of the major literature I have not read and digested, from "Mankind's Search for God" (my favorite) to "Reasoning from the Scriptures," . . . "You can Live forever in paradise on Earth." . . . "Questions Young People Ask (and how to answer them)" . . . .Too many to mention along with the regular "Awake!" and "The Watchtower" magazines.

I was at a point completely convinced of the intergrity and scriptural accuracy of the Jehovah's witnesses. Aside from the dedication to scripture and repudiation of a lot of false and pagan doctrines (Trinity, Hell Fire as well as pagan celebrations such as Easter and Christmas) they had a genuinely humble, simple and endearing style and approach. They were always welcome for Bible Study in our homes and I had already begun looking at which Kingdom Halls I would prefer to worship with.

The things that began to make me drift away were actually simple enough. Such as the blood transfuson issue. Up till today, from a scriptural (and I dare say even spiritual angle) I believe that the JW approach is coherent - as they often said, if the doctor asks you not to drink alcohol, you should not then take it intravenously. So since scipture says dont eat blood, then you should not take it intravenously either. On the spiritual side, the Bible itself says "the life is in the blood" and I also imagine that mixing blood could mix certain magnetic and spiritual vibrations personal to individuals.

Nonetheless I wondered at a point what sort of rigidity could lead the JW to prefer the death of even their children to a blood transfusion. Frankly this was my first hesitation.

Others came with time and were not limited to the views of JWs but rather to my growing questioning of the nature of reality, God and life. I became generally irreligious and began to see God as an impersonal existential force. In later life, the practice of shunning is something I came to understand and detest with JWs. I still find it very cult-like and unchristian.

So there you are. Over to you.

Nnamdipapa:
1. B.

Final thoughts, whether it is God or Santa Claus, both are characters you were told to believe in without evidence, rewarded for faith, and warned of punishments if you doubt. The only difference is that you grow out of Santa Claus, and many never grow out of God.

Thanks for recognizing me, your efforts will not go unrewarded in December.
Watch out✌️

DeepSight:
Let us discuss.

As a teenager, I veered towards becoming a Jehovah's Witness. I was introduced to their literature by my late father. He wasnt one, but liked the literature. There is literally none of the major literature I have not read and digested, from "Mankind's Search for God" (my favorite) to "Reasoning from the Scriptures," . . . "You can Live forever in paradise on Earth." . . . "Questions Young People Ask (and how to answer them)" . . . .Too many to mention along with the regular "Awake!" and "The Watchtower" magazines.

I was at a point completely convinced of the intergrity and scriptural accuracy of the Jehovah's witnesses. Aside from the dedication to scripture and repudiation of a lot of false and pagan doctrines (Trinity, Hell Fire as well as pagan celebrations such as Easter and Christmas) they had a genuinely humble, simple and endearing style and approach. They were always welcome for Bible Study in our homes and I had already begun looking at which Kingdom Halls I would prefer to worship with.

The things that began to make me drift away were actually simple enough. Such as the blood transfuson issue. Up till today, from a scriptural (and I dare say even spiritual angle) I believe that the JW approach is coherent - as they often said, if the doctor asks you not to drink alcohol, you should not then take it intravenously. So since scipture says dont eat blood, then you should not take it intravenously either. On the spiritual side, the Bible itself says "the life is in the blood" and I also imagine that mixing blood could mix certain magnetic and spiritual vibrations personal to individuals.

Nonetheless I wondered at a point what sort of rigidity could lead the JW to prefer the death of even their children to a blood transfusion. Frankly this was my first hesitation.

Others came with time and were not limited to the views of JWs but rather to my growing questioning of the nature of reality, God and life. I became generally irreligious and began to see God as an impersonal existential force. In later life, the practice of shunning is something I came to understand and detest with JWs. I still find it very cult-like and unchristian.

So there you are. Over to you.

Reference the books - "Life - how did it get here - by evolution or creation" - was also a great work. It devled deep into science and made serious and worthy arguments.

DeepSight:
Let us discuss.
As a teenager, I veered towards becoming a Jehovah's Witness. I was introduced to their literature by my late father. He wasnt one, but liked the literature. There is literally none of the major literature I have not read and digested, from "Mankind's Search for God" (my favorite) to "Reasoning from the Scriptures," . . . "You can Live forever in paradise on Earth." . . . "Questions Young People Ask (and how to answer them)" . . . .Too many to mention along with the regular "Awake!" and "The Watchtower" magazines.

I was at a point completely convinced of the intergrity and scriptural accuracy of the Jehovah's witnesses. Aside from the dedication to scripture and repudiation of a lot of false and pagan doctrines (Trinity, Hell Fire as well as pagan celebrations such as Easter and Christmas) they had a genuinely humble, simple and endearing style and approach. They were always welcome for Bible Study in our homes and I had already begun looking at which Kingdom Halls I would prefer to worship with.
The things that began to make me drift away were actually simple enough. Such as the blood transfuson issue. Up till today, from a scriptura (and I dare say even spiritual angle) I believe that the JW approach is coherent - as they often said, if the doctor asks you not to drink alcohol, you should not then take it intravenously. So since scipture says dont eat blood, then you should not take it intravenously either. On the spiritual side, the Bible itself says "the life is in the blood" and I also imagine that mixing blood could mix certain magnetic and spiritial vibrations personal to individuals.
Nonetheless I wondered at a point what sort of rigidity could lead the JW to prefer the death of even their children to a blood transfusion. Frankly this was my first hesitation.
Others came with time and were not limited to the views of JWs but rather to my growing questioning of the nature of reality, God and life. I became generally irreligious and began to see God as an impersonal existential force. In later life, the practice of shunning is something I came to understand and detest with JWs. I still find it very cult-like and unchristian.
So there you are. Over to you.

Blood Transfusion and Shunning.

Let's discuss reasonably on the issue of blood transfusion.
Nobody wants to die or loose their love ones so any right thinking person would feel something is wrong when obedient to a rule could mean the death of his or her love one.
But let's look at the matter from another angle.

The Bible God said:


This is what the Lord says— your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel: “I am the Lord your God, who teaches you what is best for you, who directs you in the way you should go. If only you had paid attention to my commands, your peace would have been like a river, your well-being like the waves of the sea. ‭Isaiah 48:17-18 NIV‬


Of course humans have developed ways of handling health issues but servants of the true God don't undermine whatever God says when it comes to our health.
Intake of blood was condemned in the Bible in ancient times {Genesis 9:4} we thought it's just about a religious rite but it was repeated after Christianity was established in a more unique form:

For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things:  to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!” Act 15:28-29

Jehovah wants His Witnesses to become many, Satan will be put to shame when many are becoming peace lovers from different nations throughout the world {Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3} so He wouldn't want us to die but then we need to remember that when it comes to the knowledge about sound health out Creator knows best. If some health personnels discovered an easy way to treat people it's a welcome development but if such will later lead to more trouble then we will rather stick to what our God said.
Blood Transfusion was introduced not as the best way to treat patients but just another experiment by scientists and there are options not that it the only way out.
Another thing many heath personnels have discovered is that blood transfusion is leading to more deadlier issues in fact many more diseases are coming up since the introduction of blood transfusion.
Today many health professionals are now thanking Jehovah's Witnesses for our firm stand on the matter because they now have lots of alternative form of treatment instead of blood transfusion and they are safer.
So it's not about blind faith but what we all need to do to make this planet safe from deadly diseases emerging from the experiments carried out by imperfect humans!

MaxInDHouse:
Blood Transfusion and Shunning.

Let's discuss reasonably on the issue of blood transfusion.
Nobody wants to die or loose their love ones so any right thinking person would feel something is wrong when obedient to a rule could mean the death of his or her love one.
But let's look at the matter from another angle.

The Bible God said:


This is what the Lord says— your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel: “I am the Lord your God, who teaches you what is best for you, who directs you in the way you should go. If only you had paid attention to my commands, your peace would have been like a river, your well-being like the waves of the sea. ‭Isaiah 48:17-18 NIV‬


Of course humans have developed ways of handling health issues but servants of the true God don't undermine whatever God says when it comes to our health.
Intake of blood was condemned in the Bible in ancient times {Genesis 9:4} we thought it's just about a religious rite but it was repeated after Christianity was established in a more unique form:

For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things:  to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!” Act 15:28-29

Jehovah wants His Witnesses to become many, Satan will be put to shame when many are becoming peace lovers from different nations throughout the world {Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3} so He wouldn't want us to die but then we need to remember that when it comes to the knowledge about sound health out Creator knows best. If some health personnels discovered an easy way to treat people it's a welcome development but if such will later lead to more trouble then we will rather stick to what our God said.
Blood Transfusion was introduced not as the best way to treat patients but just another experiment by scientists and there are options not that it the only way out.
Another thing many heath personnels have discovered is that blood transfusion is leading to more deadlier issues in fact many more diseases are coming up since the introduction of blood transfusion.
Today many health professionals are now thanking Jehovah's Witnesses for our firm stand on the matter because they now have lots of alternative form of treatment instead of blood transfusion and they are safer.
So it's not about blind faith but what we all need to do to make this planet safe from deadly diseases emerging from the experiments carried out by imperfect humans!

No problem there.

What about shunning.

How can you ask someone to shun their own family?

Would Christ do that?

DeepSight:
Reference the books - "Life - how did it get here - by evolution or creation" - was also a great work. It devled deep into science and made serious and worthy arguments.

The group making those books are called Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses if you don't know what they stands for we won't bother arguing with you because they are the only channel the true God is using to dispense spiritual food today.
So when some people speaks of what is found in the publications they produced yet concluded they are just mere humans we laugh at such people.

MaxInDHouse:
The group making those books are called Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses if you don't know what they stands for we won't bother arguing with you because they are the only channel the true God is using to dispense spiritual food today.
So when some people speaks of what is found in the publications they produced yet concluded they are just mere humans we laugh at such people.

Are you saying humans cannot dissect issues the way they do? Humans do that all the time.
Besides the GB has been wrong and revised itself several times.

DeepSight:
No problem there.
What about shunning.
How can you ask someone to shun their own family? Would Christ do that?

The highlighted shows you really need to know the person called "Christ" by studying his words diligently not just listening to what people say about him.

For your information it's Jesus Christ himself that taught us to shun anyone who refuses to agree with whatever the organization agrees upon!

MaxInDHouse:
The highlighted shows you really need to know the person called "Christ" by studying his words diligently not just listening to what people say about him.

For your information it's Jesus Christ himself that taught us to shun anyone who refuses to agree with whatever the organization agrees upon!

Where did he teach that please.

DeepSight:
Are you saying humans cannot dissect issues the way they do? Humans do that all the time.
Besides the GB has been wrong and revised itself several times.

Let's look at the way the Bible God led His worshipers in the past.

Throughout the whole world people were worshiping in different ways and they all believed that there is a Creator whom they are worshiping from their own thinking but the true God arranged for a nation to serve as example to others. This nation (Israel) was led by a man named Moses who committed a lot of blunders yet whoever speaks against Moses this Bible God will not forgive.

WHY?

Because He doesn't support disorder so we must all humbly follow the guidance He provided through imperfect humans that He is using if we are truly humble!

DeepSight:
You mean the sarcasm missed you?
Na wah oh.

LoLz. Let him be pretending there.

MaxInDHouse:
This is what you (LordReed) typed with your own fingers on October 27/2021 at exactly 5:22pm begging me to make you a member of the Governing Body because you want prominence among faithful people thinking it's all about gathering material possessions.

So from that very moment i know you can't be among faithful people because humility is what God cherish! Zephaniah 2:2-3

Bwahahahahahahahaha! Anybody with 2 brain cells to rub together can see what that was, not this attempt at bad belle interpretation. LMAO!

LordReed:
Bwahahahahahahahaha! Anybody with 2 brain cells to rub together can see what that was, not this attempt at bad belle interpretation. LMAO!

It is truly worrisome that it could be interpreted otherwise even with the hint of laughter you added. Worrisome. Very worrisome.

Just look at these words -

because you want prominence among faithful people thinking it's all about gathering material possessions.

What is this for heavens sake? ? ?

DeepSight:
Where did he teach that please.

Please read:

“Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go and reveal his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, so that on the testimony of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector. Matthew 18:15-17

With the above Jesus set the standard for orderliness among his disciples so whoever rejects counsel that's governing the entire association of Christians should be SHUNNED just as Jews does to tax collectors in their midst.

That's what Paul repeated to people who wants to join the Christian family in all other nations:

"Now I urge you, brothers, to keep your eye on those who create divisions and causes for stumbling contrary to the teaching that you have learned, and avoid them" Romans 16:17

Apostle John also said:

If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. 2John 1:10

Regarding this same matter Jude wrote:

“In the last time there will be ridiculers, following their own desires for ungodly things.” These are the ones who cause divisions, animalistic men, not having spirituality Jude 1:18-19

So SHUNNING is the punishment Jesus himself introduced among believers this will help us to know those who are still keeping that quality (humility) and those who are no longer interested.

In the days of Moses God led the nation from Egypt to the land of Canaan but instead of spending 40 days they spent 40 years! Please would you have remained in their company humbly taking instructions from Moses who led them on a journey that supposed to last just 40 days for 40 years?

Well that's what humility really means!

DeepSight:
It is truly worrisome that it could be interpreted otherwise even with the hint of laughter you added. Worrisome. Very worrisome.
Just look at these words -
What is this for heavens sake? ? ?

This means you weren't following what is going on between myself and LordReed.

He equated what Jehovah's Witnesses teaches to other religions claiming they are SUCCESSFUL and i explained that the Bible God has explained what real success is from His own angle but the atheist kept arguing that worshipers of Mammon claiming pastors are equally blessed that's why i told him not to disturb me with his unbelief i am only interested in you because you claim to be humble something LordReed detests.

In his comment i quoted he was arguing about the same thing back then which is worldly riches, he was asking how much the Governing Body members are been paid then he said i should make him a Governing Body.

So the intention of his heart is clear all he wants is riches not righteousness!

MaxInDHouse:
This means you weren't following what is going on between myself and LordReed.

He equated what Jehovah's Witnesses teaches to other religions claiming they are SUCCESSFUL and i explained that the Bible God has explained what real success is from His own angle but the atheist kept arguing that worshipers of Mammon claiming pastors are equally blessed that's why i told him not to disturb me with his unbelief i am only interested in you because you claim to be humble something LordReed detests.

Mgbo, LordReed, they say you destest humility?

In his comment i quoted he was arguing about the same thing back then which is worldly riches, he was asking how much the Governing Body members are been paid then he said i should make him a Governing Body.

So the intention of his heart is clear all he wants is riches not righteousness!

Come on, he was being sarcastic.

Remember also that its not just wealth, there is power over other people.

DeepSight:
Mgbo, LordReed, they say you destest humility?
Come on, he was being sarcastic.
Remember also that its not just wealth, there is power over other people.

You need to be careful of the highlighted!

Among Jehovah's Witnesses whoever is yearning for power can not last among us! Mark 9:35

This is true Christianity not falsehood!

DeepSight:
It is truly worrisome that it could be interpreted otherwise even with the hint of laughter you added. Worrisome. Very worrisome.

Just look at these words -



What is this for heavens sake? ? ?

The guy is a basket case. He can tell an Eskimo that snow is volcanic ash. LoLz.

DeepSight:
Mgbo, LordReed, they say you destest humility?



Come on, he was being sarcastic.

Remember also that its not just wealth, there is power over other people.

Are you minding him? LMAO!

For reference this was what brought up the issue:

MaxInDHouse:
Whoever remains or can speak of the best performing group is a JW not people you're seeing. A member of the GB happens to be there because he believes in the best performing group and that's what is keeping over 8.7 millions together till today.
So any of us who stops believing in the best performing group is not a JW forget about whatever position such a person holds formerly!

LordReed:
So the JW GB member that left didn't believe but was elected into the GB. Maybe you guys should elect me into the GB. LMFAO!

MaxInDHouse:
He didn't believe in the best performing group otherwise he would have presented a better performing group to justify his leaving!

You don't believe in any group action so you can't even be in our midst!

LordReed:
Yet he was a member of the GB. Come and make me a GB member since nonJW can be members of your GB.

Do you see any mention of wealth or humility in this conversation string? LoLz.

LordReed:
The guy is a basket case. He can tell an Eskimo that snow is volcanic ash. LoLz.

That sort of reminds me of "Good does not mean good" and other fantabulous stories from our friend, Igboho.

DeepSight:
That sort of reminds me of "Good does not mean good" and other fantabulous stories from our friend, Igboho.

LMFAO!

LordReed:
LMFAO!

At some point, being sarcastic with him, I said one of his things, like "Word God does not refer to God" or one other such BS.
And the clown replied - "You are getting it now."

DeepSight:
At some point, being sarcastic with him, I said one of his things, like "Word God does not refer to God" or one other such BS.
And the clown replied - "You are getting it now."

Holy Andromeda! Maybe these guys don't understand sarcasm!

LordReed:
Holy Andromeda! Maybe these guys don't understand sarcasm!

I swear, it left me feeling cold as if there was winter in my room.
So dont be too surprised at Max.

DeepSight:
I swear, it left me feeling cold as if there was winter in my room.
So dont be too surprised at Max.

So let's just say you are through with our discussion!