₦airaland Forum

Kukutente23:
This is patently false sir. See how you have deviated from claiming God taking human form is rooted in paganism to now claiming something else!

The Greeks and Romans never depicted God as being three or having A SON neither did they preach salvation from sin. I challenge you to bring forth where the religions you mentioned ever had such beliefs. The Roman supreme god was Jupiter and he had a father and mother. He ruled along with his brothers not son and he was the god of thunder and lightning. He had multiple children and siblings as well. The Greek supreme god was Zeus who had parents as well as brothers and sons. He was also god of lightning and thunder. In actual fact, Jupiter was Romans answer to Zeus and both gods do not have any semblance with the Christian God in any form or manner.

The Hindu god Shiva also has nothing in common with the Christian god.

In the Bible, so many people were raised from the dead so coming back from death is not peculiar to Jesus Christ in the Bible. The difference is in his ascension which only Elijah had done before Him in the Bible. Osiris is an Egyptian god neither Greek nor Roman

In the case of Islam however, a lot of Islamic practices existed in Arabia and Mecca before the birth of Muhammad. The pilgrimage, fasting the Ramadan, circling the Kaaba, giving alms and sacrifice of rams and goats, facing the Kaaba to pray etc were all practices that already existed in Mecca before Muhammad. Even the story of Muhammad's journey to heaven, already existed in Zoroastrianism and was well known in Arabia before it was lifted into the quran

Not only that, Islamic scripture is filled with stories that were directly lifted from the Bible. All the Islamic prophets bar Muhammad already existed in the Bible before the quran. So, it is safe to say they were borrowed from the Bible. So if the quran has copiously taken stories of its prophets from the Bible, and you say Christianity is from Roman and Greek religions, then it follows that Islam has roots in Roman and Greek religions as well

The stories in the Quran find parallels in the Bible simply show the continuity in Revelation. The stories were resumed to teach lessons, preach doctrines, etc. That Jesus mentioned Noah and his followers alluded to Enoch when, in fact, they were not tribesmen and lived Centuries apart, showing the same continuity i alluded to earlier.

In Islam, some of the of the Practices were indeed pre-Islamic! Take the Hajj, for instance, that practice has been in Arabia for centuries, and people came from far and wide to observe it. Even Israelites, while in the "Wilderness," also celebrate some form of Pulgrimage. I ask you where was that site they visited to celebrate it? Remember, David and Solomon were not born then, and the Temple was not built yet! Even the famed Apostle Paul came to Arabia at some point in time, and he wrote about a Jerusalem of Haggar some 500 years before the Prophet of Islam was born! How come? It is a common practice amongst Semites to go visit Mecca/Bakkah the Crying Valley in those days.

Yeah, the Prophet Journey to the Heavens were detailed in the Zoroastrian Scriptures and as well in the Bible, and I tell you what, it was a Prophecy of things to come.

As for The Trinity God or the Truine Godhead, what I wrote was that the idea was already out there before the advent of Jesus of Nazareth but was copied and foisted on the Faith by the Pagan Converts who never really let go of their erring ways.

Check out all of the Christians' Festival. Christmas, Easter, Santa Claus, these were all Pagan Festival but that found their way into Christianity, and the Christians then accepted them. Even the name Jesus is never "Jesus" name, but it came from "YeZues"

The idea that God gave birth, died, and resurrected were all ideas that predate the advent of Jesus by centuries. The Writers of Jesus story only copied them and foisted Christianity.

honesttalk21:
Sadly you put too much effort in sarcasm rather than substance.

You’re trying to force Christian or materialist categories onto Islamic texts. In Islam, Allah is affirmed with attributes, but without likeness to creation (Q. 42:11). The hadith about Adam only means he was created complete, not that Allah looks like man. To accuse scholars of explaining away is shallow since every serious tradition interprets its texts. The flaw is not in Islam, but in reading with mockery instead of scholarship.

Attributes 🤔? Your reductionism is false and inconsistent🤨.

My concern is that some ḥadiths are more specific, like “God created Adam in His image” , and sometimes even “…in the image of His face”—the hadith where it's advised not to slap/hit men(believers) in their faces🤔, I will provide the exact reference after this post.

If any one of you strikes (another), let him avoid the face, for Allah created Adam in His image.” According to another version: “In the image of the Most Merciful.

Ibn Abu `Asim also narrated (516) that Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “When any one of you fights let him avoid the face, for Allah created Adam in the image of His Face.”

Muslim(Sahih) (2612) narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “When any one fights his brother, let him avoid the face, for Allah created Adam in His image.”

(I decided to attach it immediately since I am aware that some of you are straw👀 manufacturers and heavy garri drinkers🤨)

So if one reduces it to mere abstract attributes🤔, that seems to flatten or dilute the meaning and could be seen as disrespectful toward Allah’s words and Mo's explanation👀. To insist it means only “attributes” is restricting the word beyond what the language allows, which is itself unwarranted🤦🏾‍♂️. Thus, interpretation as only attributes is linguistically and contextually weak(obviously, nowhere in the verse is your assertion found but solely on the lips of scholars🤷.)

Allah is al-Samīʿ (All-Hearing), al-Baṣīr (All-Seeing). Humans are also described as hearing and seeing in the Qur’an🤔. But the relation is analogical, not identical: our hearing/seeing is limited, His is absolute. If one accepts this analogy for attributes, why deny a similar analogical sense for “image”?😅—possibly because scholars disagree👀.
To reduce “image” only to attributes while accepting hearing/seeing in an analogical way is inconsistent.🥱—A scholarly work around 😂.

I do believe that early Sunni theologians (e.g., Imām Mālik, Aḥmad ibn Ḥanbal) said regarding such texts: “We affirm it as it came, without asking how (bi-lā kayf), without likening (tashbīh), and without denial (taʿṭīl).”
This respects the wording but some nairaland scholar says😂 otherwise apparently he got it from his scholars🤦🏾‍♂️—Philosophically, this is a middle path👀🤕.

Simple implication of your logic results in all creation sharing “attributes” of God👀 in some analogical sense: life, power, will, knowledge😅. If “in His image” means only this, then all creatures are in [b]God’s image, not uniquely Adam.[/b]🥱The fact the ḥadīth singles out Adam implies something more particular👀. So limiting it to attributes makes the statement trivial — which undermines the supposed ’wisdom of his👀 revelation’.

As a corollary to the above, we have the Quran saying 🤧: “We have honored the children of Adam” (17:70). Thus, linking Adam’s creation to the divine “image” elevates his status🤔.To reduce it to just “attributes“🥱 strips away the unique honor conveyed in the hadith, thereby diminishing the Q😁uranic logic of human dignity🤦🏾‍♂️. If you reduce the “image” to “attributes only”, it collapses analogy into metaphor and negates the purpose of specificity🤷.

Pls, tell me another lie.

Kukutente23:
This is patently false sir. See how you have deviated from claiming God taking human form is rooted in paganism to now claiming something else!

The Greeks and Romans never depicted God as being three or having A SON neither did they preach salvation from sin. I challenge you to bring forth where the religions you mentioned ever had such beliefs. The Roman supreme god was Jupiter and he had a father and mother. He ruled along with his brothers not son and he was the god of thunder and lightning. He had multiple children and siblings as well. The Greek supreme god was Zeus who had parents as well as brothers and sons. He was also god of lightning and thunder. In actual fact, Jupiter was Romans answer to Zeus and both gods do not have any semblance with the Christian God in any form or manner.

The Hindu god Shiva also has nothing in common with the Christian god.

In the Bible, so many people were raised from the dead so coming back from death is not peculiar to Jesus Christ in the Bible. The difference is in his ascension which only Elijah had done before Him in the Bible. Osiris is an Egyptian god neither Greek nor Roman

In the case of Islam however, a lot of Islamic practices existed in Arabia and Mecca before the birth of Muhammad. The pilgrimage, fasting the Ramadan, circling the Kaaba, giving alms and sacrifice of rams and goats, facing the Kaaba to pray etc were all practices that already existed in Mecca before Muhammad. Even the story of Muhammad's journey to heaven, already existed in Zoroastrianism and was well known in Arabia before it was lifted into the quran

Not only that, Islamic scripture is filled with stories that were directly lifted from the Bible. All the Islamic prophets bar Muhammad already existed in the Bible before the quran. So, it is safe to say they were borrowed from the Bible. So if the quran has copiously taken stories of its prophets from the Bible, and you say Christianity is from Roman and Greek religions, then it follows that Islam has roots in Roman and Greek religions as well

It is true that Zeus (Greek) and Jupiter (Roman) were thunder gods with parents, siblings, and children. They were not triune beings, and their myths don’t mirror the Trinity directly. But the point is not that Christianity simply copied Zeus/Jupiter rather, Greco-Roman thought influenced how Christianity was expressed in later centuries, especially in philosophical language e.g., the use of logos from Greek philosophy in John 1:1.

The doctrine of the Trinity was formally crystallized in the Roman Empire (Council of Nicaea, 325 CE), when Christianity was already under Greek philosophical and Roman cultural influence. Early pagan religions often had triads like in Babylon; Sin–Shamash–Ishtar; Hindus; Brahma–Vishnu–Shiva. This shows that the concept of divine plurality was not alien to the ancient world, even if the details differ.

The real argument is influence and adaptation, not direct copying of Zeus/Jupiter.

On salvation and a son of God in pagan religions, Pagan religions did often speak of divine offspring. Zeus fathered demi-gods like Hercules, Perseus, etc. These were sons of god in the mythological sense.
Salvation from sin in the Christian sense is unique, but dying-and-rising gods Osiris, Tammuz, Dionysus, Mithras did exist in Near Eastern and Mediterranean myths. They symbolized life after death, agricultural renewal, or immortality.
Christianity distinguished itself by historicizing this in one figure Jesus, but the motif was present in older religions.

Unfortunately I have to correct some errors again! Intentional or Pure ignorance?

Lukuluku69:
The stories in the Quran find parallels in the Bible simply show the continuity in Revelation. The stories were resumed to teach lessons, preach doctrines, etc. That Jesus mentioned Noah and his followers alluded to Enoch when, in fact, they were not tribesmen and lived Centuries apart, showing the same continuity i alluded to earlier.

You can't reveal something that has already been revealed and was never lost. The stories never stopped spreading to warrant a re-revelation. Even in Mecca, there were both Jews and Christians who practiced their religion freely. Muhammad's uncle was a Christian who read agnostic gospels. So to claim that the revelations were revealed to restart some lessons is pure falsehood. In fact, apart from what seemed like tribal triumphalism in calling everyone to worship only Allah, there was nothing Muhammad was saying that was strange to his hearers.

In Islam, some of the of the Practices were indeed pre-Islamic! Take the Hajj, for instance, that practice has been in Arabia for centuries, and people came from far and wide to observe it. Even Israelites, while in the "Wilderness," also celebrate some form of Pulgrimage. I ask you where was that site they visited to celebrate it? Remember, David and Solomon were not born then, and the Temple was not built yet! Even the famed Apostle Paul came to Arabia at some point in time, and he wrote about a Jerusalem of Haggar some 500 years before the Prophet of Islam was born! How come? It is a common practice amongst Semites to go visit Mecca/Bakkah the Crying Valley in those days.

The Israelites never engaged in any pilgrimage to any other place other than their journey towards Canaan the promised land which took them 400 years due to their disobedience. They strictly followed the pillar of cloud by day and pillar of fire by night and no pilgrimage to the East was ever recorded for them. Apostle Paul never visited Arabia on pilgrimage. The whole of Arabia was a bedoiun desert of pagans and savages in the time of Paul. So it is totally false to claim that Jews visited Mecca on pilgrimage. Instead, since the time the Israelites settled in Canaan, they have always visited the seat of the Priest where the Ark of Covenant is housed on pilgrimage every year. It was one of such pilgrimages were Hannah called on God in Shiloh. So it is incorrect to claim that it was until the Temple was built that Israelites started going on pilgrimage to the House of God in Israel.

Yeah, the Prophet Journey to the Heavens were detailed in the Zoroastrian Scriptures and as well in the Bible, and I tell you what, it was a Prophecy of things to come.

A prophecy of thing to come? Are you validating Zoroastrianism now? Zoroastrianism is idol worship. It is not the worship of Yahweh God of Israel. It is a Persian religion which is the same religion God told Abraham to abandon!!

As for The Trinity God or the Truine Godhead, what I wrote was that the idea was already out there before the advent of Jesus of Nazareth but was copied and foisted on the Faith by the Pagan Converts who never really let go of their erring ways.

Check out all of the Christians' Festival. Christmas, Easter, Santa Claus, these were all Pagan Festival but that found their way into Christianity, and the Christians then accepted them. Even the name Jesus is never "Jesus" name, but it came from "YeZues"

The idea that God gave birth, died, and resurrected were all ideas that predate the advent of Jesus by centuries. The Writers of Jesus story only copied them and foisted Christianity.

It is complete falsehood to claim that the triune Godhead existed before Christianity. You can never be able to find a religion that professed such before Christianity. Even in Christianity, it was not made doctrinally clear until the the time of Apostle John in the island of Patmos. Christmas was instituted at the birth of Christ. The Bible recorded angels rejoicing in heaven and bringing good tidings to men. So how can it be a pagan festival. Same with his resurrection. It was celebrated by his disciples. None of the two had pagan origins. The name is Yeshua not YeZeus. Zeus did not exist in Greek myths at the time of Jesus. It is a simple lie to claim that God begetting a son predated Christianity. I challenge you to bring examples.
If you want to be a polemicist, be an informed and knowledgeable one. Telling lies and falsehood makes you look weak ad unenlightened.

Kukutente23:
This is patently false sir. See how you have deviated from claiming God taking human form is rooted in paganism to now claiming something else!

The Greeks and Romans never depicted God as being three or having A SON neither did they preach salvation from sin. I challenge you to bring forth where the religions you mentioned ever had such beliefs. The Roman supreme god was Jupiter and he had a father and mother. He ruled along with his brothers not son and he was the god of thunder and lightning. He had multiple children and siblings as well. The Greek supreme god was Zeus who had parents as well as brothers and sons. He was also god of lightning and thunder. In actual fact, Jupiter was Romans answer to Zeus and both gods do not have any semblance with the Christian God in any form or manner.

The Hindu god Shiva also has nothing in common with the Christian god.

In the Bible, so many people were raised from the dead so coming back from death is not peculiar to Jesus Christ in the Bible. The difference is in his ascension which only Elijah had done before Him in the Bible. Osiris is an Egyptian god neither Greek nor Roman

In the case of Islam however, a lot of Islamic practices existed in Arabia and Mecca before the birth of Muhammad. The pilgrimage, fasting the Ramadan, circling the Kaaba, giving alms and sacrifice of rams and goats, facing the Kaaba to pray etc were all practices that already existed in Mecca before Muhammad. Even the story of Muhammad's journey to heaven, already existed in Zoroastrianism and was well known in Arabia before it was lifted into the quran

Not only that, Islamic scripture is filled with stories that were directly lifted from the Bible. All the Islamic prophets bar Muhammad already existed in the Bible before the quran. So, it is safe to say they were borrowed from the Bible. So if the quran has copiously taken stories of its prophets from the Bible, and you say Christianity is from Roman and Greek religions, then it follows that Islam has roots in Roman and Greek religions as well

... cont'd

You’re right that some practices like pilgrimage to the Kaaba, fasting, almsgiving, and sacrifices existed in pre-Islamic Arabia. But Islam did not “borrow” them in the pagan sense; rather, it reclaimed them as originally Abrahamic but corrupted over time.

Qur’an 22:26-27 describes the Kaaba as built by Abraham and Ishmael.

Qur’an 2:183 says fasting was prescribed for earlier communities.

The Prophet pbuh himself condemned the idolatrous distortions of pre-Islamic Arabs while maintaining practices that were rooted in Abrahamic tradition.

As for the the Miʿraj ascension, yes, Zoroastrianism and other cultures had celestial journey stories, but Islam’s claim is not dependence it is revelation. Similar motifs don’t prove borrowing; they prove universality of religious themes.

Islam, Christianity, and Judaism share common prophetic figures because they claim a single source: revelation from the one God.

To say Islam borrowed from the Bible assumes the Bible is the original. From the Islamic perspective, the Qur’an is a correction and confirmation (Qur’an 10:37; 5:48) of earlier scriptures, not plagiarism. Many Biblical stories differ in detail from their Qur’anic versions like, Abraham’s near-sacrifice, the identity You’re right that some practices like pilgrimage to the Kaaba, fasting, almsgiving, and sacrifices existed in pre-Islamic Arabia. But Islam did not “borrow” them in the pagan sense; rather, it reclaimed them as originally Abrahamic but corrupted over time.

Qur’an 22:26-27 describes the Kaaba as built by Abraham and Ishmael.

Qur’an 2:183 says fasting was prescribed for earlier communities.

The Prophet pbuh himself condemned the idolatrous distortions of pre-Islamic Arabs while maintaining practices that were rooted in Abrahamic tradition.

As for the the Miʿraj ascension, yes, Zoroastrianism and other cultures had celestial journey stories, but Islam’s claim is not dependence it is revelation. Similar motifs don’t prove borrowing; they prove universality of religious themes.

Islam, Christianity, and Judaism share common prophetic figures because they claim a single source: revelation from the one God.

To say Islam borrowed from the Bible assumes the Bible is the original. From the Islamic perspective, the Qur’an is a correction and confirmation (Qur’an 10:37; 5:48) of earlier scriptures, not plagiarism. Many Biblical stories differ in detail from their Qur’anic versions like Abraham’s near-sacrifice, the identity of Haman and the crucifixion. This shows the Qur’an isn’t a mere copy.


If Christianity is influenced by Greek/Roman religions, then Islam must also be influenced is also a false equivalence.
Christianity developed inside the Greco-Roman world, and its doctrines were formalized there.

Islam arose in Arabia, where Jewish, Christian, Zoroastrian, and pagan influences coexisted. Similarities don’t necessarily mean borrowing they may mean common ancestry of faith or simply shared human religious motifs.

Inappropriate for this please

Kukutente23:
Unfortunately I have to correct some errors again! Intentional or Pure ignorance? You can't reveal something that has already been revealed and was never lost. The stories never stopped spreading to warrant a re-revelation. Even in Mecca, there were both Jews and Christians who practiced their religion freely. Muhammad's uncle was a Christian who read agnostic gospels. So to claim that the revelations were revealed to restart some lessons is pure falsehood. In fact, apart from what seemed like tribal triumphalism in calling everyone to worship only Allah, there was nothing Muhammad was saying that was strange to his hearers.

The Israelites never engaged in any pilgrimage to any other place other than their journey towards Canaan the promised land which took them 400 years due to their disobedience. They strictly followed the pillar of cloud by day and pillar of fire by night and no pilgrimage to the East was ever recorded for them. Apostle Paul never visited Arabia on pilgrimage. The whole of Arabia was a bedoiun desert of pagans and savages in the time of Paul. So it is totally false to claim that Jews visited Mecca on pilgrimage. Instead, since the time the Israelites settled in Canaan, they have always visited the seat of the Priest where the Ark of Covenant is housed on pilgrimage every year. It was one of such pilgrimages were Hannah called on God in Shiloh. So it is incorrect to claim that it was until the Temple was built that Israelites started going on pilgrimage to the House of God in Israel.

A prophecy of thing to come? Are you validating Zoroastrianism now? Zoroastrianism is idol worship. It is not the worship of Yahweh God of Israel. It is a Persian religion which is the same religion God told Abraham to abandon!!


It is complete falsehood to claim that the triune Godhead existed before Christianity. You can never be able to find a religion that professed such before Christianity. Even in Christianity, it was not made doctrinally clear until the the time of Apostle John in the island of Patmos. Christmas was instituted at the birth of Christ. The Bible recorded angels rejoicing in heaven and bringing good tidings to men. So how can it be a pagan festival. Same with his resurrection. It was celebrated by his disciples. None of the two had pagan origins. The name is Yeshua not YeZeus. Zeus did not exist in Greek myths at the time of Jesus. It is a simple lie to claim that God begetting a son predated Christianity. I challenge you to bring examples.
If you want to be a polemicist, be an informed and knowledgeable one. Telling lies and falsehood makes you look weak ad unenlightened.

It is true that there were some Jews in Arabia before the message of Islam was preached. History had them their for between 350-400 years, and some historians placed them in Arabia when the Romans exiled them. Of the fleeing lots, some prefer Arabia for so many reasons, chief of which the fact that, Arabia because of it terrain is impenetrable to the Romans and also, the Jews believed that their Promised Messiah will rise from Arabia! So, also, is the fact that some Christians also reside in Arabia, but the question is: how effective was there Teachings on the Pagan Arabs? Remember that Judaism is not a faith looking for converts. You must be born a Jew! On a scale of 10, Christianity and Judaism scored zero on impacts in Arabia after centuries of being there, so the stories had to be retold to the Pagan Arabian who shared common ancestry with the Jews via Abraham.

Going by your logic, when Jesus mentioned Noah, was the story of Noah lost on his listeners? When his disciples referenced Enoch, were they doing it just for the fun of it?


On Zoroastrianism, I can see that you are utterly ignorant of that faith. But I don't/can't blame you. You are only parroting the centuries of brainwashing done on the African Christians.

Do you remember the Three Magis at Babe Jesus crib? They were Zorasatrians, and what were they looking for? A Deliverer and Reformer of their Corrupt Faith as foretold in their scriptures the Upanishad and Avesta. So, they came to check out Babe Jesus if indeed he was the Deliverer of their faith.

For you to say that God told Abraham to abandon the Persian Faith shows the level of your ignorance. Abraham was a Semite and was of the Sumerrian stock, or if you like a Hebrew: Someone from beyond the River Eber. He was never a Persian, and Abraham predate the Zoroastrian Prophet known as Zarathustra by at least 2,000 years or more, so how can he be of that faith?


A simple Google search with tell you that the Truine Godhead predates your Christian faith. If you don't know that, it shows your knowledge of world history. Try and get a copy of An Encyclopedia on World Religion on know of other faith.

Also, you don't know that Christmas, Easter, and Santa are of Pagan origin befuddles me. Even here in Nigeria, there are notable G.O. that says Christmas is of Pagan Origin. Kumuyi and Mountain of Fire people say so too, and they are filled with the Holy Ghost oo.

Lol

You said Zeus did not exist in Greek myths at the time of Jesus? Is that a joke or deliberate attempt to be ignorant? Greek myths predate Christ by centuries!

Gods have been begetting sons by the tons way before the Pagans foisted that idea on you Christians.

Use Google if you can not visit a library. It will cure many of your ignorance.

honesttalk21:
... cont'd

You’re right that some practices like pilgrimage to the Kaaba, fasting, almsgiving, and sacrifices existed in pre-Islamic Arabia. But Islam did not “borrow” them in the pagan sense; rather, it reclaimed them as originally Abrahamic but corrupted over time.

Qur’an 22:26-27 describes the Kaaba as built by Abraham and Ishmael.

Qur’an 2:183 says fasting was prescribed for earlier communities.

The Prophet pbuh himself condemned the idolatrous distortions of pre-Islamic Arabs while maintaining practices that were rooted in Abrahamic tradition.

As for the the Miʿraj ascension, yes, Zoroastrianism and other cultures had celestial journey stories, but Islam’s claim is not dependence it is revelation. Similar motifs don’t prove borrowing; they prove universality of religious themes.

Islam, Christianity, and Judaism share common prophetic figures because they claim a single source: revelation from the one God.

To say Islam borrowed from the Bible assumes the Bible is the original. From the Islamic perspective, the Qur’an is a correction and confirmation (Qur’an 10:37; 5:48) of earlier scriptures, not plagiarism. Many Biblical stories differ in detail from their Qur’anic versions like, Abraham’s near-sacrifice, the identity You’re right that some practices like pilgrimage to the Kaaba, fasting, almsgiving, and sacrifices existed in pre-Islamic Arabia. But Islam did not “borrow” them in the pagan sense; rather, it reclaimed them as originally Abrahamic but corrupted over time.

Qur’an 22:26-27 describes the Kaaba as built by Abraham and Ishmael.

Qur’an 2:183 says fasting was prescribed for earlier communities.

The Prophet pbuh himself condemned the idolatrous distortions of pre-Islamic Arabs while maintaining practices that were rooted in Abrahamic tradition.

As for the the Miʿraj ascension, yes, Zoroastrianism and other cultures had celestial journey stories, but Islam’s claim is not dependence it is revelation. Similar motifs don’t prove borrowing; they prove universality of religious themes.

Islam, Christianity, and Judaism share common prophetic figures because they claim a single source: revelation from the one God.

To say Islam borrowed from the Bible assumes the Bible is the original. From the Islamic perspective, the Qur’an is a correction and confirmation (Qur’an 10:37; 5:48) of earlier scriptures, not plagiarism. Many Biblical stories differ in detail from their Qur’anic versions like Abraham’s near-sacrifice, the identity of Haman and the crucifixion. This shows the Qur’an isn’t a mere copy.


If Christianity is influenced by Greek/Roman religions, then Islam must also be influenced is also a false equivalence.
Christianity developed inside the Greco-Roman world, and its doctrines were formalized there.

Islam arose in Arabia, where Jewish, Christian, Zoroastrian, and pagan influences coexisted. Similarities don’t necessarily mean borrowing they may mean common ancestry of faith or simply shared human religious motifs.

Lie, lies and more lies. 🥱

Your Quran is a clear plagiarized copy of the apocryphal gospel books, not canonical gospel books, since they didn't know any better 🥱. We see several skewed stories 😵‍💫 and mix ups. Apart from this we even see the contemporaries of the prophet alleging he had a teacher or mentor and in some cases he(or his scribes) just wrote fairy tales down. From the “life of Mohammed “we see he had interactions with Jews and some Christians probably heretical ones —hence the wrong reference to ’correct’ trinity in the form of "God, Jesus and Mary “, an obvious error(misconception) from a divine God🤨; definitely, it's man made.

I could go on and on but I am afraid I don't have such time but the above is enough.

Kukutente23:
Unfortunately I have to correct some errors again! Intentional or Pure ignorance? You can't reveal something that has already been revealed and was never lost. The stories never stopped spreading to warrant a re-revelation. Even in Mecca, there were both Jews and Christians who practiced their religion freely. Muhammad's uncle was a Christian who read agnostic gospels. So to claim that the revelations were revealed to restart some lessons is pure falsehood. In fact, apart from what seemed like tribal triumphalism in calling everyone to worship only Allah, there was nothing Muhammad was saying that was strange to his hearers.

The Israelites never engaged in any pilgrimage to any other place other than their journey towards Canaan the promised land which took them 400 years due to their disobedience. They strictly followed the pillar of cloud by day and pillar of fire by night and no pilgrimage to the East was ever recorded for them. Apostle Paul never visited Arabia on pilgrimage. The whole of Arabia was a bedoiun desert of pagans and savages in the time of Paul. So it is totally false to claim that Jews visited Mecca on pilgrimage. Instead, since the time the Israelites settled in Canaan, they have always visited the seat of the Priest where the Ark of Covenant is housed on pilgrimage every year. It was one of such pilgrimages were Hannah called on God in Shiloh. So it is incorrect to claim that it was until the Temple was built that Israelites started going on pilgrimage to the House of God in Israel.

A prophecy of thing to come? Are you validating Zoroastrianism now? Zoroastrianism is idol worship. It is not the worship of Yahweh God of Israel. It is a Persian religion which is the same religion God told Abraham to abandon!!


It is complete falsehood to claim that the triune Godhead existed before Christianity. You can never be able to find a religion that professed such before Christianity. Even in Christianity, it was not made doctrinally clear until the the time of Apostle John in the island of Patmos. Christmas was instituted at the birth of Christ. The Bible recorded angels rejoicing in heaven and bringing good tidings to men. So how can it be a pagan festival. Same with his resurrection. It was celebrated by his disciples. None of the two had pagan origins. The name is Yeshua not YeZeus. Zeus[b] did not exist in Greek myths at the time of Jesus. It is a simple lie to claim that God begetting a son predated Christianity. I challenge you to bring examples. [/b]
If you want to be a polemicist, be an informed and knowledgeable one. Telling lies and falsehood makes you look weak ad unenlightened.

Acts 14:11-15 (KJV) And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men.
And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker.
Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people.
Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,
And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:

Do you need interpretation? You wrote in your last paragraph that Zeus doesn't exist in Jesus time yet the Almighty Paul and Barnabas were refered to as Jupiter and Mecurius and pagans wanted to sacrifice at their feet.

I guess you never read this part before?

AntiisIam:
Which question jare muniru

Jerinmaya you no see the questions and answers
Logore soju oo

Gabrielshow24:
Lie, lies and more lies. 🥱

Your Quran is a[b] clear plagiarized copy of the apocryphal gospel books, not canonical gospel books,[/b] since they didn't know any better 🥱. We see several skewed stories 😵‍💫 and mix ups. Apart from this we even see the contemporaries of the prophet alleging he had a teacher or mentor and in some cases he(or his scribes) just wrote fairy tales down. From the “life of Mohammed “we see he had interactions with Jews and some Christians probably heretical ones —hence the wrong reference to ’correct’ trinity in the form of "God, Jesus and Mary “, an obvious error(misconception) from a divine God🤨; definitely, it's man made.

I could go on and on but I am afraid I don't have such time but the above is enough.

Plagiarized yet these claims of yours are not justified since the Qur'an narration differs from these book or you want to lie as usual that they are exactly the same.

The allegation of some contemporaries of the Prophet pbuh accusing him of being taught or of writing down fairy tales, is stated in the Qur’an itself which dismantles this claim.
It shows that the alleged teacher spoke a foreign tongue, while the Qur’an is pure Arabic of unmatched eloquence. It challenges them to produce something similar and points out the consistency, truth, and divine origin of its message.Historically, no credible teacher was ever identified, and the transformative power of the Qur’an remains unmatched by any human work. This proves the baselessness of the allegation or you now class to have identified the teacher or source of the fairy tales.

Present them if indeed it's not another one of your characteristic lies.

Expanse2020:
Jerinmaya you no see the questions and answers
Logore soju oo

Sule, what happen to the book of Jeremiah?

honesttalk21:
It is true that Zeus (Greek) and Jupiter (Roman) were thunder gods with parents, siblings, and children. They were not triune beings, and their myths don’t mirror the Trinity directly. But the point is not that Christianity simply copied Zeus/Jupiter rather, Greco-Roman thought influenced how Christianity was expressed in later centuries, especially in philosophical language e.g., the use of logos from Greek philosophy in John 1:1.

The doctrine of the Trinity was formally crystallized in the Roman Empire (Council of Nicaea, 325 CE), when Christianity was already under Greek philosophical and Roman cultural influence. Early pagan religions often had triads like in Babylon; Sin–Shamash–Ishtar; Hindus; Brahma–Vishnu–Shiva. This shows that the concept of divine plurality was not alien to the ancient world, even if the details differ.

The real argument is influence and adaptation, not direct copying of Zeus/Jupiter.

On salvation and a son of God in pagan religions, Pagan religions did often speak of divine offspring. Zeus fathered demi-gods like Hercules, Perseus, etc. These were sons of god in the mythological sense.
Salvation from sin in the Christian sense is unique, but dying-and-rising gods Osiris, Tammuz, Dionysus, Mithras did exist in Near Eastern and Mediterranean myths. They symbolized life after death, agricultural renewal, or immortality.
Christianity distinguished itself by historicizing this in one figure Jesus, but the motif was present in older religions.

How is logos from Greek philosophy? Logos is a Greek word. It has nothing to do with philosophy.

Ascribing Christianity to greco-roman philosophy is totally incorrect. The Greeks and Romans believed in the worship of multiple gods and more importantly territorial expansion through military conquests. None of the two is compatible with Christianity.

To claim that council of Nicene was where Trinity was formalised is another falsehood not based on facts. Even Muhammad in the Qur'an opposed Trinity concept. And at least you all claim the Qur'an was received by Muhammad. So if the Qur'an has verses that was a direct response to trinitarian concept, it implies that the Qur'an was written much later than the dates given and is thus of doubtful authenticity.

Again, you've also attempted to draw a link between Christianity and pagan religions that simply do not exist. Offsprings of pagan gods were born through natural copulation. Christ was not. None of the mythical gods offered anyone salvation. Neither did they promise any hereafter. These are the basic tenets of Christianity.

honesttalk21:
Plagiarized yet these claims of yours are not justified since the Qur'an narration differs from these book or you want to lie as usual that they are exactly the same.

The allegation of some contemporaries of the Prophet pbuh accusing him of being taught or of writing down fairy tales, is stated in the Qur’an itself which dismantles this claim.
It shows that the alleged teacher spoke a foreign tongue, while the [b]Qur’an is pure Arabic of unmatched eloquence. [/b]It challenges them to produce something similar and points out the consistency, truth, and divine origin of its message.Historically, no credible teacher was ever identified, and the transformative power of the Qur’an remains unmatched by any human work. This proves the baselessness of the allegation or you now class to have identified the teacher or source of the fairy tales.

Present them if indeed it's not another one of your characteristic lies.

I wonder what ’pure’ means in your book 🤨but the Quran is not pure Arabic🤣. Pls, when you lie at least think before so.

If by ’affirming his contemporaries speech being written down’ confirms the Quran's authenticity then it also refutes it🤷—Logic is not really your forte🤧.

Sincerely, you should start your construction agency. The way you are so adroit at building straws😅, I can't help but wonder whether you studied civil engineering🤔or better still, in the madrasas 😂. Plagiarism doesn't mean word for word, whosoever taught you this— obviously no one taught you...you built it up as an easy straw to dismiss😂 but you should know that this won't help you either—should be examined🤔.

Lots of patterns of plagiarism are evident, infact there are too many to cite😂. From: the protoevangelium of James, syriac gospel of Barnabas, syriac gospel of Matthew, life of Adam and eve, Jewish Talmuds and Targums, Romances of Alexander, book of Enoch, infancy Gospel of thomas, to syriac gospel of infancy to say a few👀... Whew😮‍💨 ...that was a lot 😂— All on top divine revelation 🤣.

Pls, tell me another lie🥱.

Kukutente23:
How is logos from Greek philosophy? Logos is a Greek word. It has nothing to do with philosophy.

Ascribing Christianity to greco-roman philosophy is totally incorrect. The Greeks and Romans believed in the worship of multiple gods and more importantly territorial expansion through military conquests. None of the two is compatible with Christianity.

To claim that council of Nicene was where Trinity was formalised is another falsehood not based on facts. Even Muhammad in the Qur'an opposed Trinity concept. And at least you all claim the Qur'an was received by Muhammad. So if the Qur'an has verses that was a direct response to trinitarian concept, it implies that the Qur'an was written much later than the dates given and is thus of doubtful authenticity.

Again, you've also attempted to draw a link between Christianity and pagan religions that simply do not exist. Offsprings of pagan gods were born through natural copulation. Christ was not. None of the mythical gods offered anyone salvation. Neither did they promise any hereafter. These are the basic tenets of Christianity.

Christianity didn’t just pop up out of nowhere. It took in a lot from Greek philosophy, including concepts like Logos, ousia, and hypostasis, along with those pagan son-of-god themes. Meanwhile, the Qur’an (4:171, 5:73) brings back the pure monotheism that Jesus preached. The idea of Logos is rooted in Greek thought, and the Trinity was officially defined at the Council of Nicaea using Greek philosophical language. Plus, many pagan religions featured divine sons and savior figures. The Qur’an isn’t late to the game; it’s actually highlighting how foreign philosophies and pagan ideas have muddied the clear monotheism that Jesus represented.

You do know that stoic philosophy was
founded by Zeno of Citium (d. 262 BCE).
The Stoics taught that Logos was the divine rational principle that orders and sustains the cosmos.It was seen as an immanent force within nature, giving the universe coherence and rationality.

Philo of Alexandria (c. 20 BCE – 50 CE) was a Hellenistic Jewish philosopher in Alexandria, Egypt who was influenced by Plato and Stoics.

The philosophical and theological concept of the Logos predates Christianity. Early Christians adopted an existing Hellenistic-Jewish idea and applied it to Jesus.

Gabrielshow24:
I wonder what ’pure’ means in your book 🤨but the Quran is not pure Arabic🤣. Pls, when you lie at least think before so.

If by ’affirming his contemporaries speech being written down’ confirms the Quran's authenticity then it also refutes it🤷—Logic is not really your forte🤧.

Sincerely, you should start your construction agency. The way you are so adroit at building straws😅, I can't help but wonder whether you studied civil engineering🤔or better still, in the madrasas 😂. Plagiarism doesn't mean word for word, whosoever taught you this— obviously no one taught you...you built it up as an easy straw to dismiss😂 but you should know that this won't help you either—should be examined🤔.

Lots of patterns of plagiarism are evident, infact there are too many to cite😂. From: the protoevangelium of James, syriac gospel of Barnabas, syriac gospel of Matthew, life of Adam and eve, Jewish Talmuds and Targums, Romances of Alexander, book of Enoch, infancy Gospel of thomas, to syriac gospel of infancy to say a few👀... Whew😮‍💨 ...that was a lot 😂— All on top divine revelation 🤣.

Pls, tell me another lie🥱.

Sadly you failed to apply this logic to why non of the Jewish/Christian handlers of the scripture never claimed it was their books he was representing.

Nicolai Sinai, Angelika Neuwirth admit the Qur’an is linguistically original in Arabic.
Qur’an 16:103 refutes claims of foreign borrowing as its style is uniquely Arabic and unmatched.

Alleged sources weren’t in Arabic and Qur’an differs sharply from apocrypha and Talmud.


The Qur’an honors earlier revelations (3:3) but exposes corruptions (2:79).. Pure Arabic: Qur’an (16:103) refutes claims of foreign borrowing — its style is uniquely Arabic and unmatched.


2. No textual borrowing: Alleged “sources” weren’t in Arabic and Qur’an differs sharply from apocrypha and Talmud.


3. Affirms originals, rejects distortions: Qur’an honors earlier revelations (3:3) as it exposes corruptions (2:79).

4. Qur’an consistently purifies stories instead of copying legends or do you redefine correction as plagiarism

honesttalk21:
Sadly you failed to apply this logic to why non of the Jewish/Christian handlers of the scripture never claimed it was their books he was representing.

Nicolai Sinai, Angelika Neuwirth admit the Qur’an is linguistically original in Arabic.
Qur’an 16:103 refutes claims of foreign borrowing as its style is uniquely Arabic and unmatched.

Alleged sources weren’t in Arabic and Qur’an differs sharply from apocrypha and Talmud.


The Qur’an honors earlier revelations (3:3) but exposes corruptions (2:79).. Pure Arabic: Qur’an (16:103) refutes claims of foreign borrowing — its style is uniquely Arabic and unmatched.


2. No textual borrowing: Alleged “sources” weren’t in Arabic and Qur’an differs sharply from apocrypha and Talmud.


3. Affirms originals, rejects distortions: Qur’an honors earlier revelations (3:3) as it exposes corruptions (2:79).

4. Qur’an consistently purifies stories instead of copying legends or do you redefine correction as plagiarism

😂 Mo' the purifier 😅.

What a lovely lie 🥱. You claimed something is purely Arabic then we find hundreds of foreign words😮‍💨—it's definitely not pure 👀😂.

It doesn't necessarily have to been in Arabic😅, hope you don't mind me asking, where did you go to school? 🤔 How old are you?
Obviously, if you were ’older’ you won't use that as an evidence. For in the narratives we find Waraqa translating the Torah(in some versions) and the gospels in Arabic 😅. We also find written that the Jews use to teach the Torah in Arabic😅. A theme evident that Mo didn't have direct relations with written materials but with oral stories 😮‍💨.

You can't reject distortions when you couldn't even discern apocryphal from canon in the first place🤣. Any rejection of distortion is delusional as the inability of your ’first believer’ to discern heretical texts from canon is clearly visible which you are defending valiantly...in this case badly😅, you just can't help but to refute yourself—you make it too easy. Your arguments are arsenals to me😁.

As I have established above, it's a consequent that since he failed to discern between the false stories and canon. It becomes mandatory for him to ’purify’ the rest.😂😂😂 That's the only option that he affords, every other thing relegates him as false 🧐—As a matter of fact, this suppose ’purification’ falls short as we have evidence to disprove it😁.

Purifier Honest talk, learn to talk honestly. We are not children, we are well versed in the Quran and Hadiths. You can't take me aback but I can, as I have done effortlessly in all our conversations. So, drop this cheap scripts they do not work on me—I do not fall under ’sharingan' like Mo for 6-12months, my head is clear and you will have to do better😮‍💨.

honesttalk21:
... cont'd

You’re right that some practices like pilgrimage to the Kaaba, fasting, almsgiving, and sacrifices existed in pre-Islamic Arabia. But Islam did not “borrow” them in the pagan sense; rather, it reclaimed them as originally Abrahamic but corrupted over time.

Qur’an 22:26-27 describes the Kaaba as built by Abraham and Ishmael.

Qur’an 2:183 says fasting was prescribed for earlier communities.

The Prophet pbuh himself condemned the idolatrous distortions of pre-Islamic Arabs while maintaining practices that were rooted in Abrahamic tradition.

As for the the Miʿraj ascension, yes, Zoroastrianism and other cultures had celestial journey stories, but Islam’s claim is not dependence it is revelation. Similar motifs don’t prove borrowing; they prove universality of religious themes.

Islam, Christianity, and Judaism share common prophetic figures because they claim a single source: revelation from the one God.

To say Islam borrowed from the Bible assumes the Bible is the original. From the Islamic perspective, the Qur’an is a correction and confirmation (Qur’an 10:37; 5:48) of earlier scriptures, not plagiarism. Many Biblical stories differ in detail from their Qur’anic versions like, Abraham’s near-sacrifice, the identity You’re right that some practices like pilgrimage to the Kaaba, fasting, almsgiving, and sacrifices existed in pre-Islamic Arabia.

Many Biblical stories differ in detail from their Qur’anic versions like Abraham’s near-sacrifice, the identity of Haman and the crucifixion. This shows the Qur’an isn’t a mere copy.


If Christianity is influenced by Greek/Roman religions, then Islam must also be influenced is also a false equivalence.
Christianity developed inside the Greco-Roman world, and its doctrines were formalized there.

Islam arose in Arabia, where Jewish, Christian, Zoroastrian, and pagan influences coexisted. Similarities don’t necessarily mean borrowing they may mean common ancestry of faith or simply shared human religious motifs.

Reclaim? To reclaim something, it must have originally belonged to the reclaimer. Islam did not exist in Arabia before Muhammad so how could he have reclaimed what never belonged to him or his religion?

Even if the Qur'an claims that the Kaaba was built by Abraham, what evidence do you have that it was built for the purpose of which you use it in worship today?

In your other reply, you insisted that Christianity had greco-roman influence. But here you reject that Islam had pagan influence even with clear evidence but attributed it to reclaiming. Are you saying there's only one certain way to worship God and all others are false?

Do you imply that David and Solomon encircled the Kaaba and carried out pilgrimage to Mecca? Are you saying Jesus faced Mecca while praying? Because if a method of worship has been polluted, the almighty God can institute another form except he is duty bound to be worshipped in that singular manner.

Let us look at it again. All the prophets from Abraham to Jesus are all Hebrews. If the Qur'an agrees that all the prophets are a single line of genealogy, why was the Prophet not chosen from that line to restore true worship but an Arab was chosen. But in restoring worship, it is idolatrous practices that are best retained?

Why did Muhammad first pray facing Jerusalem in the tradition of the Jews before changing towards Mecca in the tradition of the pagan if his focus was on restoring true worship? This was even as Kaaba was still housing all the pagan gods! So which was the true place for worship? Jerusalem or Mecca? Why the inconsistency?

It is virtually impossible for Christianity to be influenced by Greco-Roman paganism while not having any of their practices but Islam then escapes Arabic paganism while retaining their practices

Lukuluku69:
Acts 14:11-15 (KJV) And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men.
And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker.
Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people.
Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,
And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:

Do you need interpretation? You wrote in your last paragraph that Zeus doesn't exist in Jesus time yet the Almighty Paul and Barnabas were refered to as Jupiter and Mecurius and pagans wanted to sacrifice at their feet.

I guess you never read this part before?

Jupiter was the direct equivalent of Zeus to the Romans. If they called Barnabas Jupiter, it simply negates the claim that Jesus was coined from Zeus since they couldn't have chosen a name already given to Jesus to give his disciples.
What I meant was that the worship of Zeus had ceased. It was Jupiter the Roman god that was being worshipped during the time of Jesus at the height of Roman domination. So if Jesus was to be named after their supreme god, Jupiter would have been the chosen name to be coined not Zeus

AntiisIam:
Sule, what happen to the book of Jeremiah?

janrimaya who de talk book for here

Kukutente23:
Reclaim? To reclaim something, it must have originally belonged to the reclaimer. Islam did not exist in Arabia before Muhammad so how could he have reclaimed what never belonged to him or his religion?

Even if the Qur'an claims that the Kaaba was built by Abraham, what evidence do you have that it was built for the purpose of which you use it in worship today?

In your other reply, you insisted that Christianity had greco-roman influence. But here you reject that Islam had pagan influence even with clear evidence but attributed it to reclaiming. Are you saying there's only one certain way to worship God and all others are false?

Do you imply that David and Solomon encircled the Kaaba and carried out pilgrimage to Mecca? Are you saying Jesus faced Mecca while praying? Because if a method of worship has been polluted, the almighty God can institute another form except he is duty bound to be worshipped in that singular manner.

Let us look at it again. All the prophets from Abraham to Jesus are all Hebrews. If the Qur'an agrees that all the prophets are a single line of genealogy, why was the Prophet not chosen from that line to restore true worship but an Arab was chosen. But in restoring worship, it is idolatrous practices that are best retained?

Why did Muhammad first pray facing Jerusalem in the tradition of the Jews before changing towards Mecca in the tradition of the pagan if his focus was on restoring true worship? This was even as Kaaba was still housing all the pagan gods! So which was the true place for worship? Jerusalem or Mecca? Why the inconsistency?

It is virtually impossible for Christianity to be influenced by Greco-Roman paganism while not having any of their practices but Islam then escapes Arabic paganism while retaining their practices

Islam's roots trace back not just to Muhammad pbuh or even Abraham, but all the way to Adam himself. Every prophet called their people to submit to Allah (Qur’an 16:36), which is the very heart of Islam. While Abraham and Ismaʿil laid the foundations of the Kaaba (Qur'an 2:125–127), establishing it as the first House of worship for humanity (Qur'an 3:96), it was later tainted by idol worship. Islam came to reclaim and purify that sacred space; it didn’t borrow from pagan traditions.

Notably, David, Solomon, and Jesus didn’t perform Hajj, and the Qur’an doesn’t mention them doing so. What truly matters is that the Kaaba has always been Abraham’s House, and Allah reinstated its significance through Muhammad pbuh. The initial Qibla towards Jerusalem was a nod to earlier prophets, but Allah later commanded a return to Makkah (Quran 2:142–150) as both a test and a restoration of Abraham’s untainted worship. In contrast, Christianity incorporated elements of Greek philosophy (Logos, ousia, hypostasis) and Roman customs, even aligning Jesus’ birth with December 25th, the festival of Sol Invictus.

The distinction is stark. Islam revitalized Abraham’s monotheism, while Christianity integrated foreign influences into its beliefs and practices.

Kukutente23:
Jupiter was the direct equivalent of Zeus to the Romans. If they called Barnabas Jupiter, it simply negates the claim that Jesus was coined from Zeus since they couldn't have chosen a name already given to Jesus to give his disciples.
What I meant was that the worship of Zeus had ceased. It was Jupiter the Roman god that was being worshipped during the time of Jesus at the height of Roman domination. So if Jesus was to be named after their supreme god, Jupiter would have been the chosen name to be coined not Zeus

You are still not getting the Memo bros. Let me itemise it for you.

1. They offered to kill an oxen and brought Garland simply tells you that the worship of Zeus was still rife in Judea by the invading Greco-Roman people. So, to say the worship ceased is blatant ignorance displayed or a deliberately attempt to lie. Whichever it is, te worship persist as evidenced by the hands of the writers of Act
2. Zeus is the Grecian version/equivalent of the Roman Jupiter. Now, it was not the the Romans that took it upon themselves to write the Story of Jesus but the Greeks, so they will be more disposed to use Zeus in their own writings and Paul being a Roman Citizen would be more disposed to use the Roman Jupiter in his own writing or dictations to whoever was writing.
3. Now, like I said in 2 above, the Greeks will use Zeus because Zeus is their own name for God. And if I may ask, In what language did your gospel came? Greek or Latin? Greek of course, so they were the ones who affixed the name HailZeus initially on Jesus when they converted which later morphed into YeZeus and when the Letter J was invented they dropped the Y for J and YeZeus became Jesus! QED.


Acts 14:11-13 (KJV) And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men.
And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker.
Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people.

Expanse2020:
janrimaya who de talk book for here

Sule'gbira wetin una dey talk

Gabrielshow24:
😂 Mo' the purifier 😅.

What a lovely lie 🥱. You claimed something is purely Arabic then we find hundreds of foreign words😮‍💨—it's definitely not pure 👀😂.

It doesn't necessarily have to been in Arabic😅, hope you don't mind me asking, where did you go to school? 🤔 How old are you?
Obviously, if you were ’older’ you won't use that as an evidence. For in the narratives we find Waraqa translating the Torah(in some versions) and the gospels in Arabic 😅. We also find written that the Jews use to teach the Torah in Arabic😅. A theme evident that Mo didn't have direct relations with written materials but with oral stories 😮‍💨.

You can't reject distortions when you couldn't even discern apocryphal from canon in the first place🤣. Any rejection of distortion is delusional as the inability of your ’first believer’ to discern heretical texts from canon is clearly visible which you are defending valiantly...in this case badly😅, you just can't help but to refute yourself—you make it too easy. Your arguments are arsenals to me😁.

As I have established above, it's a consequent that since he failed to discern between the false stories and canon. It becomes mandatory for him to ’purify’ the rest.😂😂😂 That's the only option that he affords, every other thing relegates him as false 🧐—As a matter of fact, this suppose ’purification’ falls short as we have evidence to disprove it😁.

Purifier Honest talk, learn to talk honestly. We are not children, we are well versed in the Quran and Hadiths. You can't take me aback but I can, as I have done effortlessly in all our conversations. So, drop this cheap scripts they do not work on me—I do not fall under ’sharingan' like Mo for 6-12months, my head is clear and you will have to do better😮‍💨.

Pure Arabic yet foreign words?
The Qur’an is written in clear Arabic (Qur’an 16:103, 26:195).

The presence of loanwords doesn’t change this fact; every language borrows terms. Once these words are embraced, they become part of the Arabic lexicon. Even the Bible, originally in Hebrew and Greek, incorporates loanwords.

The reference to Waraqa, for instance, who translated scripture into Arabic, or the Jews who taught the Torah in Arabic.
This only shows that some scriptures were explained in Arabic, not that Muhammad pbuh simply copied from them.

In fact, Qur’an 25:5–6 addresses this very accusation and counters it: the revelation came from “He who knows the secrets of the heavens and the earth.”

You say he couldn’t tell the difference between apocryphal texts and canonical ones. But the Qur’an doesn’t validate apocrypha; rather, it corrects inaccuracies. For example, the Gospel contains exaggerated tales about Isa a.s, while the Qur’an clarifies the narrative (Qur'an 3:45–47, 5:116).

The Qur’an explicitly rejects distortions: “They distort words from their places” (Qur’an 4:46, 2:79).


The historical purification in Islam is clear. 360 idols were destroyed at the Kaaba, forbidden practices were abolished, and tawheed (monotheism) was restored.

In contrast, Christianity has absorbed pagan and Greek ideas into its core beliefs (like the Trinity and the significance of December 25th).

Resorting to jokes like “Sharingan” or “cheap scripts” isn’t a valid argument. The Qur’an issued an open challenge (Qur'an 2:23) that has stood unmatched for 1400 years. If it were borrowed, why didn’t his educated opponents come up with a competing text?

Borrowing words is not the same as borrowing revelation. The Qur’an’s style, theology, and preservation are one-of-a-kind, and its “purification” is genuine elimination of idols and correcting distortions.

honesttalk21:
Christianity didn’t just pop up out of nowhere. It took in a lot from Greek philosophy, including concepts like Logos, ousia, and hypostasis, along with those pagan son-of-god themes. Meanwhile, the Qur’an (4:171, 5:73) brings back the pure monotheism that Jesus preached. The idea of Logos is rooted in Greek thought, and the Trinity was officially defined at the Council of Nicaea using Greek philosophical language. Plus, many pagan religions featured divine sons and savior figures. The Qur’an isn’t late to the game; it’s actually highlighting how foreign philosophies and pagan ideas have muddied the clear monotheism that Jesus represented.

You do know that stoic philosophy was
founded by Zeno of Citium (d. 262 BCE).
The Stoics taught that Logos was the divine rational principle that orders and sustains the cosmos.It was seen as an immanent force within nature, giving the universe coherence and rationality.

Philo of Alexandria (c. 20 BCE – 50 CE) was a Hellenistic Jewish philosopher in Alexandria, Egypt who was influenced by Plato and Stoics.

The philosophical and theological concept of the Logos predates Christianity. Early Christians adopted an existing Hellenistic-Jewish idea and applied it to Jesus.

Like I already told you, you need to adjust your dates. If you insist that Trinity was formalised at the council of Nicene, it means the Qur'an was written after the council and not before since the Qur'an contends against the Trinity concept. For the Qur’an to have opposed Trinity means the concept existed as at the time it was revealed. So which are you going to take? Qur'an was written after Nicean council or Trinity existed before then and you are wrong?
Like I said already, Logos is just a word. Out of the four gospels it appears in only one. If Logos was intended to be a central philosophy, it will appear in all the four gospels and not just one. Even in the one where it occurred, the central theme was the Trinity and not Logos as illumination or word. So the use of the word Logos has no specific intent beyond being just a mere word. That early Christians adopted it is simply false

AntiisIam:
Sule'gbira wetin una dey talk

Jakobu
Omo olorun meta
🤣🤣😂

honesttalk21:
Pure Arabic yet foreign words?
The Qur’an is written in clear Arabic (Qur’an 16:103, 26:195).

The presence of loanwords doesn’t change this fact; every language borrows terms. Once these words are embraced, they become part of the Arabic lexicon. Even the Bible, originally in Hebrew and Greek, incorporates loanwords.

The reference to Waraqa, for instance, who translated scripture into Arabic, or the Jews who taught the Torah in Arabic.
This only shows that some scriptures were explained in Arabic, not that Muhammad pbuh simply copied from them.

In fact, Qur’an 25:5–6 addresses this very accusation and counters it: the revelation came from “He who knows the secrets of the heavens and the earth.”

You say he couldn’t tell the difference between apocryphal texts and canonical ones. But the Qur’an doesn’t validate apocrypha; rather, it corrects inaccuracies. For example, the Gospel contains exaggerated tales about Isa a.s, while the Qur’an clarifies the narrative (Qur'an 3:45–47, 5:116).

The Qur’an explicitly rejects distortions: “They distort words from their places” (Qur’an 4:46, 2:79).


The historical purification in Islam is clear. 360 idols were destroyed at the Kaaba, forbidden practices were abolished, and tawheed (monotheism) was restored.

In contrast, Christianity has absorbed pagan and Greek ideas into its core beliefs (like the Trinity and the significance of December 25th).

Resorting to jokes like “Sharingan” or “cheap scripts” isn’t a valid argument. The Qur’an issued an open challenge (Qur'an 2:23) that has stood unmatched for 1400 years. If it were borrowed, why didn’t his educated opponents come up with a competing text?

Borrowing words is not the same as borrowing revelation. The Qur’an’s style, theology, and preservation are one-of-a-kind, and its “purification” is genuine elimination of idols and correcting distortions.

😅Law of non-contradiction refutes you also you have committed false analogy again. You seem to think that the bible made such outrageous claims🤨...Nope, no such thing. It's only you guys😁 . The existence of foreign words proves it's not pure arabic —case closed.

What kind of ludicrous argument is this, does recitation stop borrowing😂? The Crux of the matter is that he heard them and had them written down😁—woah😳, that sounds extremely familiar 🤔,I wonder who said that 👀. Pls, get yourself together and present a better defense, this is just shambolic!

It doesn't counter anything, it only created more gaping holes, presumably in the SIN. Now, his words must be infallible 🤕 and accurate since they actually come from the divine. A simple example is where he said Gabriel told him that the first to ’heightened sensation’ determines the child's gender😂. Divine wisdom, indeed. Let's not forget ’seed of man’ coming from between ... You know this , you should fill in the gap😁. There are other plethora of examples that brings his divine revelation under scrutiny 🤔.

It ’clarifies the narrative by fixing’, or in this present context purifying😁. he seemed not to know simple details such as Mary's lineage asserting she came from Aaron—let's not even talk about the obvious error in she being Aaron's sister. It was also obsessed with the palm tree👀, I wonder what other stories had this same narrative 🤨... apocryphal tales. Obviously, he didn't know any better.

This is just shows his ignorance, if he had known better his book won't be like this🥱.

Yes, he purified the cube but yet he still commanded his people to do the activities of ancient paganism 🤨. This answers your allusions to Christmas, we do not have any command to do such; the same can't be said for you 🤧. Your false analogy is evident.

The challenge has been refuted by Satan, since he produced a verse like God's and the prophet was none wiser🥱. So keep the sentiments to yourself. Also, no God sets a challenge so easily overcome. There are even hadiths that depict a daughter of a poet claiming that Mo plagiarized her father's works—Definitely, it's reproducible. We now even have surahs with short verses 😮‍💨.

I don't need to, his own scribe negates this logic. Abdallah said he produced like as he was the one obviously writing ’the divine revelation '. Simple induction coupled with the paragraph above shows us that both men and jinn could well reproduce the book!

You borrowed words and ideas from others to form your theology. You might have added your Arabic ’style’ that is an aberration of Arabic grammar which forced your scholars to reinvent Arabic grammar🤧. Definitely, you are ’purifiers’😮‍💨. Even at this, you still kiss the black stone and follow in the pagan footsteps of old. Not much has really changed, save the change of name😔.

honesttalk21:
Islam's roots trace back not just to Muhammad pbuh or even Abraham, but all the way to Adam himself. Every prophet called their people to submit to Allah (Qur’an 16:36), which is the very heart of Islam. While Abraham and Ismaʿil laid the foundations of the Kaaba (Qur'an 2:125–127), establishing it as the first House of worship for humanity (Qur'an 3:96), it was later tainted by idol worship. Islam came to reclaim and purify that sacred space; it didn’t borrow from pagan traditions.

Notably, David, Solomon, and Jesus didn’t perform Hajj, and the Qur’an doesn’t mention them doing so. What truly matters is that the Kaaba has always been Abraham’s House, and Allah reinstated its significance through Muhammad pbuh. The initial Qibla towards Jerusalem was a nod to earlier prophets, but Allah later commanded a return to Makkah (Quran 2:142–150) as both a test and a restoration of Abraham’s untainted worship. In contrast, Christianity incorporated elements of Greek philosophy (Logos, ousia, hypostasis) and Roman customs, even aligning Jesus’ birth with December 25th, the festival of Sol Invictus.

The distinction is stark. Islam revitalized Abraham’s monotheism, while Christianity integrated foreign influences into its beliefs and practices.

If Kaaba was abandoned after ismail and all the other prophets chose Jerusalem as their place of worship, what was the compelling reason for restoring Kaaba? Was it prescribed by Allah as his preferred place for true worship? If so, does is mean all the other prophets that worshipped in Jerusalem worshipped in error? If so, why didn't Allah call their attention to it for them to make amends? If islam could wait for 2000+ years before reclaiming the Kaaba then it means the Kaaba has less importance to Allah than you claim.
And why will Allah be so undecided about where to face in worship. You are claiming that Abraham was the Supreme prophet that all prophets sold aspire to of Allah changed Muhammad's Qibla in other to satisfy Abraham’s requirements. If so, then it means Muhammad is not the best of prophets but Abraham. If Adam was the first prophet, then the monotheism belongs to Adam. If Abraham built the Kaaba, where did Adam worship? What about Noah? Isaac nko? You see how disjointed your claim is?
You have still not been able to prove that Christianity incorporated Greek philosophy. Just alleging doesn't make it true

Lukuluku69:
You are still not getting the Memo bros. Let me itemise it for you.

1. They offered to kill an oxen and brought Garland simply tells you that the worship of Zeus was still rife in Judea by the invading Greco-Roman people. So, to say the worship ceased is blatant ignorance displayed or a deliberately attempt to lie. Whichever it is, te worship persist as evidenced by the hands of the writers of Act
2. Zeus is the Grecian version/equivalent of the Roman Jupiter. Now, it was not the the Romans that took it upon themselves to write the Story of Jesus but the Greeks, so they will be more disposed to use Zeus in their own writings and Paul being a Roman Citizen would be more disposed to use the Roman Jupiter in his own writing or dictations to whoever was writing.
3. Now, like I said in 2 above, the Greeks will use Zeus because Zeus is their own name for God. And if I may ask, In what language did your gospel came? Greek or Latin? Greek of course, so they were the ones who affixed the name HailZeus initially on Jesus when they converted which later morphed into YeZeus and when the Letter J was invented they dropped the Y for J and YeZeus became Jesus! QED.


Acts 14:11-13 (KJV) And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men.
And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker.
Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people.

First of all there's no such thing as Greco-Roman invasion of judea. The Greeks invasion of Judea ended over 100years before Jesus was born. The Jews took control of the area and established a Jewish dynasty that lasted over 100years. Unlike the Greeks, the Romans were after political control not colonialism. They didn't bother themselves with what the locals in their conquered territory did as long as they paid tributes and recognised caesar's authority. So it is simply false to try to merge Greek and Roman rulership over Judea. So how does it make sense to claim that the Greeks whom the Jews chased out of Judea over 100 years ago in an attempt to return to judaism where the same ones who institutes a strange religion and the Jews allowed it? It makes no sense. You wrote QED for a tale you have no historical reference for. How does that even make sense?
Secondly, the people who called Barnabas Jupiter were neither Romans nor Greeks. They did that because of the miracle they witnessed not because they wanted to institute a religion. Like I already told you, by that period, Jupiter had replaced Zeus since the Greek empire had crumbled. So it is totally impossible to name a god or religion after the Greeks. Greek became the popular language because of the colonialism of the Greeks. It's just as English is now our lingua franca. The Romans were never interested in colonialism. That's why Latin did not replace Greek and why the NT was written in Greek

Expanse2020:
Jakobu
Omo olorun meta
🤣🤣😂

Sule, oya write the above statement in English make I check if you understand singular and plural

Kukutente23:
If Kaaba was abandoned after ismail and all the other prophets chose Jerusalem as their place of worship, what was the compelling reason for restoring Kaaba? Was it prescribed by Allah as his preferred place for true worship? If so, does is mean all the other prophets that worshipped in Jerusalem worshipped in error? If so, why didn't Allah call their attention to it for them to make amends? If islam could wait for 2000+ years before reclaiming the Kaaba then it means the Kaaba has less importance to Allah than you claim.
And why will Allah be so undecided about where to face in worship. You are claiming that Abraham was the Supreme prophet that all prophets sold aspire to of Allah changed Muhammad's Qibla in other to satisfy Abraham’s requirements. If so, then it means Muhammad is not the best of prophets but Abraham. If Adam was the first prophet, then the monotheism belongs to Adam. If Abraham built the Kaaba, where did Adam worship? What about Noah? Isaac nko? You see how disjointed your claim is?
You have still not been able to prove that Christianity incorporated Greek philosophy. Just alleging doesn't make it true

On the Kaaba, you say Allah was not sure on where to pray. This view is wrong. Abraham & Ismail set up the Kaaba for faith in one God. Over time, wrong faith filled it, so, new sites like Jerusalem were used. Each prophet followed Allah's lead; Moses in Jerusalem, Noah had no temple, Abraham at the Kaaba. All were right. When Muhammad came, Allah made the Kaaba the Qibla again. Using Jerusalem first linked to old prophets. The Kaaba was set to meet Abraham’s ask & show the last and full word. This shows a clear plan, not doubt. First the Law, then the Gospel, then the Qur’an. Allah picks what fits each time.

Now, on Christianity & Greek thought. This is true. The idea of a soul that lasts is from Plato, not the Hebrew word. In the Bible, it means breath or life. Plato said souls don't die; this thought stuck. The Logos in John’s book fits Greek ideas of divine thought. It is Greek thought used for Christ.

The Trinity is told in Greek terms; essence, person, same stuff. These are not in Hebrew texts; they are high thought. Augustine took from Neoplatonism. God as the top Good, bad as lack of good. Aquinas used Aristotle. God as the Still Source & Pure Act.

Church Fathers knew this. Justin Martyr called it the true thought. Clement said thought made way for Christ.

So, it’s clear that the Kaaba’s back as a plan, not a mix-up. And yes, Christianity took in Greek thought; Logos, the soul, Trinity, Neoplatonism, Aristotle’s views. These are just facts, not guesswork.

If the Kaaba’s return shows God’s plan through time, then Christianity’s use of Greek thought shows our weak try to frame the divine with human terms.

Muslims looked at Greek thought much later, but Islam’s truth didn't lean on it, while Christianity’s core ideas did. The Qur’an states it backs and details all prior words (12:111). Islam doesn't need Plato or Aristotle to know God. It has its own proof from Allah. Christianity used Athens to know God; Islam went back to Mecca to praise God. This is the gap between thought built on philosophy & truth built on clear word.