₦airaland Forum

flokii:
To cover up his attrocities.. he doesn't want unions to expose his dealings because they will be eyes and ears of their national body at his refinery.
2. He intends to use the Nigerian workers in his refinery as slaves while he pays illiterate Indians high salaries. Imagine a Nigerian Engineer earning far below an Indian technician/labourer without degree.

The unions would definitely not allow such, reason he wants to shut them off his refinery.

Do you know what a slave is? Why use terms you aren't conversant with? Dangote cannot stop a staff from resigning, he cannot not pay them at the end of the month as long as they're still staff, this relationship is not a slave-master relationship, stop saying things that are false. If I do not want to work for my current employer, I simply put in a letter of resignation, I know friends who don't even give notice, they just leave without a word.
Now to the pay structure, there's no way to prove any of your claims as we don't have the level and payslips of the Nigerian and Indian staff to compare. How sure are you that a Nigerian engineer on the SAME LEVEL with an Indian staff is earning far less as you stated? I emphasized same level because they can be doing similar things but are on different levels. I do the same things with some of my colleagues but out-earn them, reverse is also the case for my senior colleagues, now do you expect me to down tools or protest because my senior colleagues earn more even if they do same things I do? Also I'm pretty sure the pay structure was communicated to everyone before employment, why's it an issue now? Why take the job if you are not comfortable with the salary? Why stay if you're not comfortable with the salary? You've exercised your constitutional right to join a union, which of course no one can fault you on, why then do you fault a private employer from exercising his constitutional right to layoff staff? Banks layoff thousands of staff at once, infact GTB and some other banks laid off staff as recent as August but no furor was raised about that because banks do not allow unions dictate their modus operandi. I'm not saying it's right to layoff staff, merely pointing out that private employers are allowed to do so

Hippon:
My stand is not against the union. However, PENGASSAN has most of the time brought negativity to the general citizenry of Nigeria. They don't tell you the truth; they lie a lot. If Dangote did not react in this harsh way, they would gang up and sabotage his refinery. Dangote should encourage his staff not to join PENGASSAN but to form their own in-house union and anchor it to the Nigeria Labour Congress, another very useless and overrated organization.
For me, I don't need all this stress; all I need is fuel.

Your stand is against the union
You said
They lie a lot
That is against them
So you already are doing what you accused them of
Lying

Most of the time we never hear noise from PENGASSAN when working for SHELL,MOBIL CHEVRON AGIP ETC

That is where they work and have worked for 50 years

We hardly hear quarrel with MOBIL, SHELL, CHEVRON, AGIP, SEPLAT
Did they sabotage SHELL or MOBIL CHEVRON LNG

Most of the time they are employed by the private sector

It is only when NNPC is involved that there are issues

When was the last time you heard issues with MOBIL..

DO NOT LIE TO YOURSELF

You are biassed against PENGASSAN based on limited and one sided information

For thosewho say oil money feeds Nigeria then say PENGASSAN feeds Nigeria
And for many years they work in harmony with employers that are bigger than Dangote and are private companies which are very unobtrusive in Nigerian news

aribisala0:
Irrelevant and emotional

You need to learn how to debate on issues

I don't care what Dangote is trying to avoid

What does the Nigerian constitution say
If you are playing a game you stick to the rules
What are the issues
What are the rules

Under Nigerian law can an employer say to his employees

You cannot join a union and if you do I will sack you yes or no?

Lol, what was emotional about my post? You're funny 😀.
Now as to your assertions, dangote did not stop his staff from joining the union, if he actually told them not, do you think they'd have the temerity to join? Let's take away all emotions as you've rightly stated, this is a business and should only be viewed in that prism. I have attached evidence that dangote did not stop staff from unionizing, of course I'm sure he must have found a way to pass a message across internally that he's very much against unionization.
I have also attached another memo from dangote where he says that the reorganization/layoff is part of plans to reduce sabotage and that he still has over 3,000 Nigerian employees working for him. Looking at all this, taking emotions away, what is dangote's crime? Bear in mind that he's allowed to sack staff as long as they're paid their due emoluments, and it's stated on the reorganization memo that the entitlements of the laid off staff would be calculated and paid to them.
The reason an educated union like pengassan is towing the strike route is because they know that if this gets to a court of law they have no locus standi as dangote did not commit any crime or abuse any labor law, the man was very careful in his public handling of the unionization brouhaha

franugo:
Lol, what was emotional about my post? You're funny 😀.
Now as to your assertions, dangote did not stop his staff from joining the union, if he actually told them not, do you think they'd have the temerity to join? Let's take away all emotions as you've rightly stated, this is a business and should only be viewed in that prism. I have attached evidence that dangote did not stop staff from unionizing, of course I'm sure he must have found a way to pass a message across internally that he's very much against unionization.
I have also attached another memo from dangote where he says that the reorganization/layoff is part of plans to reduce sabotage and that he still has over 3,000 Nigerian employees working for him. Looking at all this, taking emotions away, what is dangote's crime? Bear in mind that he's allowed to sack staff as long as they're paid their due emoluments, and it's stated on the reorganization memo that the entitlements of the laid off staff would be calculated and paid to them.
The reason an educated union like pengassan is towing the strike route is because they know that if this gets to a court of law they have no locus standi as dangote did not commit any crime or abuse any labor law, the man was very careful in his public handling of the unionization brouhaha

Under Nigerian law can an employer say to his employees

You cannot join a union and if you do I will sack you yes or no?

aribisala0:
Under Nigerian law can an employer say to his employees

You cannot join a union and if you do I will sack you yes or no?

Brother why are you still towing this line like a broken record? I thought we were having a cerebral conversation. I have given you evidence that exists in the public domain that dangote did not tell his staff not to join a union so he clearly did not break the labor law. I'm also pretty sure that he left some union staff in his employ so he can present evidence in court, if needed, that the staff that were laid off were not due to unionization even though we know to an extent that it's definitely a major reason why. If we're going to continue this conversation, you have to give me legit and prove-able feedback, not this same "dangote told his staff not to join the union" shtick.

Streetinvestor2:
If u don't know anything. U just keep quiet. Who told those companies are private like dangota They are joint venture with the government. In some of them government has larger percentage. Dangote is mostly over 90 % private. Which useless union operates in New generation banks.U can see whr ur union placed banks like union bank and first bank today. And is not long first bank sacked workers because the new ceo is trying to turn things around in the bank.
The same unions destroyed the government refineries till date

Halliburton, Schlumberger, Baker huges, etc are joint ventures abi? Stop disgracing yourself here.

Shell, Chevron, Mobil, Seplat, etc are joint ventures? Are you okay? Do you know what joint venture is?

franugo:
Brother why are you still towing this line like a broken record? I thought we were having a cerebral conversation. I have given you evidence that exists in the public domain that dangote did not tell his staff not to join a union so he clearly did not break the labor law. I'm also pretty sure that he left some union staff in his employ so he can present evidence in court, if needed, that the staff that were laid off were not due to unionization even though we know to an extent that it's definitely a major reason why. If we're going to continue this conversation, you have to give me legit and prove-able feedback, not this same "dangote told his staff not to join the union" shtick.

Under Nigerian law can an employer say to his employees

You cannot join a union and if you do I will sack you yes or no?

maiunguwar:
The Unions in the NNPC refineries, how did they fared? What did they achieve other than destroying the refineries, what will they achieve for Dangote refinery?
If they are not satisfied with his condition of employment,they should find work elsewhere

How did NUPENG and PENGASSAN destroy the NNPC refinery? Say it and shame the devil.

aribisala0:
Under Nigerian law can an employer say to his employees

You cannot join a union and if you do I will sack you yes or no?

Let's play your game then, NO, it is against the labor law to force staff to not join a union.
Now over to you, do you have evidence that dangote broke this law?

yarimo:
why didn't you and your family build a refinery and make sure PENGASSAN and NUPENG take control of your your staff

Are you unable to have constructive conversation?

franugo:
Let's play your game then, NO, it is against the labor law to force staff to not join a union.
Now over to you, do you have evidence that dangote broke this law?

Why did he sack 800 of his staff that voted to join PENGASSAN?

franugo:
Let's play your game then, NO, it is against the labor law to force staff to not join a union.
Now over to you, do you have evidence that dangote broke this law?

Do you have evidence that I claimed Dangote broke the law?
You are nearly clever. Almost.

Penguin2:
Why did he sack 800 of his staff that voted to join PENGASSAN?

Reorganization, it's stated on the layoff memo. If you or pengassan believe it's due to unionization, you can take it to court to prove it, bearing in mind that a private employer cannot be told how to run his business or who to sack/retain as long as he abides by the laws of the land, which dangote has done so far

aribisala0:
Do you have evidence that I claimed Dangote broke the law?
You are nearly clever. Almost.

You're confusing, what exactly are you accusing dangote of then? What's your grouse exactly?

Elusive001:
How did NUPENG and PENGASSAN destroy the NNPC refinery? Say it and shame the devil.

They destroyed it with their constant strikes,to allow their tank farms to thrive.
That's why they are up in arms against dangote to prevent their tank farms from dying

franugo:
You're confusing, what exactly are you accusing dangote of then? What's your grouse exactly?

You are the one now accusing me of accusing Dangote
So you must know what you are accusing me of accusing Dangote of??
I am not confusing but you are confused

aribisala0:
You are the one now accusing me of accusing Dangote
So you must know what you are accusing me of accusing Dangote of??
I am not confusing but you are confused

Alright, I tire of this, obviously you don't have a valid rebuttal and are self aware enough to understand same. Happy independence day brother 🎇

maiunguwar:
They destroyed it with their constant strikes,to allow their tank farms to thrive.
That's why they are up in arms against dangote to prevent their tank farms from dying

So pengassan and NUPENG have tank farms? Please give us one example of their tank farms. So they allowed Chevron, mobil, Total, etc to function? So they are the people who prevented the refineries from working?

Penguin2:
Are you unable to have constructive conversation?

Yes, of course bro.

franugo:
Alright, I tire of this, obviously you don't have a valid rebuttal and are self aware enough to understand same. Happy independence day brother 🎇

You realise you joined a queue and on getting to the front you have no clue what the queue is for?

Don't join queues blindly

franugo:
Reorganization, it's stated on the layoff memo. If you or pengassan believe it's due to unionization, you can take it to court to prove it, bearing in mind that a private employer cannot be told how to run his business or who to sack/retain as long as he abides by the laws of the land, which dangote has done so far

the status of private employer does not exist in law
There is nothing like that
In law there is employer full stop

Many keep repeating private employer as if it has any extra or special meaning

All employers must comply with the law and Dangote can sack workers as long as the law is followed
Same applies to Shell, NNPC,Zenith Bank or the Federal Government

There is no separate law for private business
So that is a moot and redundant point
It has no meaning

aribisala0:
You realise you joined a queue and on getting to the front you have no clue what the queue is for?

Don't join queues blindly

I have no idea what you're talking about and it's clear you have no idea on the dangote-pengassan rift, sad really.

aribisala0:
the status of private employer does not exist in law
There is nothing like that
In law there is employer full stop

Many keep repeating private employer as if it has any extra or special meaning

All employers must comply with the law and Dangote can sack workers as long as the law is followed
Same applies to Shell, NNPC,Zenith Bank or the Federal Government

There is no separate law for private business
So that is a moot and redundant point
It has no meaning

I'm not about to continue this back n forth when you respond with the condescension you've shown already, once again, happy independence day brother 🎇

franugo:
I'm not about to continue this back n forth when you respond with the condescension you've shown already, once again, happy independence day brother 🎇

I was talking to someone else and you butted it

aribisala0:
People assert the wrong thing and they do so with amazing confidence

Business in general is private nearly all business in Nigeria is private and they are unionised

Let us take PENGASSAN
Where do they work

SHELL,MOBIL CHEVRON AGIP, OANDO,TOTAL,SEPLAT
THEY ARE PRIVATE

You heard someone say something and with zero understanding go about repeating with confidence something you know nothing about

Pilot's have a union.
Are they government workers?
Are bankers government workers? Do they have a union

Think first talk next or better think first and stay silent

franugo:
Bankers do not down tools when nlc declares a strike, pilots also do not download tools. No private employer worth his salt will allow his staff to join a union that can hamper his business. Pengassan strike is currently hampering business for the employers you mentioned because their staff have downed tools, this is what dangote is trying to avoid in the future, I'm not sure why you guys can't see it. Those employers aren't refineries, a refinery cannot handle staff downing their tools, it's much better for dangote to resolve the issue now by replacing the unionized staff instead of waiting till they down tools in the future at an inopportune time because pengassan has an issue with another employer

So what sensible point do you think you were making

What is the connection

He said you should be flogged for wanting to do union in a private business
Do you agree?

You just jumped in and started arguing blindly

aribisala0:
I was talking to someone else and you butted it





So what sensible point do you think you were making

What is the connection

He said you should be flogged for wanting to do union in a private business
Do you agree?

You just jumped in and started arguing blindly

I don't care about that person's comment, I didn't even see it, and I'd have ignored it if I did see it like I ignore most people here cause they have no idea what they're saying but their voices are always the loudest and filled with useless tribal quips. I felt you were the exception to the NL norm which is why I was willing to engage with you, I mean imagine saying that a staff should be whipped

franugo:
I don't care about that person's comment, I didn't even see it, and I'd have ignored it if I did see it like I ignore most people here cause they have no idea what they're saying but their voices are always the loudest and filled with useless tribal quips. I felt you were the exception to the NL norm which is why I was willing to engage with you, I mean imagine saying that a staff should be whipped

Okay but I was talking about the right to join unions
You have come in with an argument position attributing to me what I never said or did?
That is why I repeatedly asked yes or no can Dangote stop workers joining unions
With regard to the substance of their dispute I did not take a position
I cannot because I don't have the facts