₦airaland Forum

A Pastor is just a Position in a Religious Business Company RBC. Nothing more than that.

By the Grace of God (Latin, Dei Gratia, abbreviated D.G.) is a formulaic phrase, acknowledging fealty to God. It has its origins as a paraphrase from St. Paul in the Bible, 1 Corinthians 15: 8 to 10, which states, "Last of all, as to one born abnormally, he appeared to me. For I am the least of the apostles, not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. But by the grace of God I am what I am...".

So most Christians are lazy?

I meant Some

WoundedLamb:
So most Christians are lazy?

It is well

Just Type Amen you will receive that you are praying for and without working for it.... and same with the so called miracle alerts

Please explain

Naijanascam:
Just Type Amen you will receive that you are praying for and without working for it.... and same with the so called miracle alerts

essentialone:
Please explain

This is where some of the laziness in most christians and non christians blossomed

Okay. That's true.

Naijanascam:
This is where some of the laziness in most christians and non christians blossomed

WITH YOU IS THE SOURCE OF LIFE

Take thought now, redeemed man, and consider how great and worthy is he who hangs on the cross for you. His death brings the dead to life, but at his passing heaven and earth are plunged into mourning and hard rocks are split asunder.
It was a divine decree that permitted one of the soldiers to open his sacred side with a lance. This was done so that the Church might be formed from the side of Christ as he slept the sleep of death on the cross, and so that the Scripture might be fulfilled: ‘They shall look on him whom they pierced’. The blood and water which poured out at that moment were the price of our salvation. Flowing from the secret abyss of our Lord’s heart as from a fountain, this stream gave the sacraments of the Church the power to confer the life of grace, while for those already living in Christ it became a spring of living water welling up to life everlasting.
Arise, then, beloved of Christ! Imitate the dove ‘that nests in a hole in the cliff’, keeping watch at the entrance ‘like the sparrow that finds a home’. There like the turtledove hide your little ones, the fruit of your chaste love. Press your lips to the fountain, ‘draw water from the wells of your Saviour; for this is the spring flowing out of the middle of paradise, dividing into four rivers’, inundating devout hearts, watering the whole earth and making it fertile.
Run with eager desire to this source of life and light, all you who are vowed to God’s service. Come, whoever you may be, and cry out to him with all the strength of your heart. “O indescribable beauty of the most high God and purest radiance of eternal light! Life that gives all life, light that is the source of every other light, preserving in everlasting splendour the myriad flames that have shone before the throne of your divinity from the dawn of time! Eternal and inaccessible fountain, clear and sweet stream flowing from a hidden spring, unseen by mortal eye! None can fathom your depths nor survey your boundaries, none can measure your breadth, nothing can sully your purity. From you flows ‘the river which gladdens the city of God’ and makes us cry out with joy and thanksgiving in hymns of praise to you, for we know by our own experience that ‘with you is the source of life, and in your light we see light’.
~St. Bonaventure

RESPONSORY
Bless the Lord, my soul, remembering all he has done for you; he rescues your life from deadly peril, crowns you with the gifts of his kindness and compassion.
O taste and see that the Lord is good: he rescues your life from deadly peril, crowns you with the gifts of his kindness and compassion.

essentialone:
WITH YOU IS THE SOURCE OF LIFE

Take thought now, redeemed man, and consider how great and worthy is he who hangs on the cross for you. His death brings the dead to life, but at his passing heaven and earth are plunged into mourning and hard rocks are split asunder.
It was a divine decree that permitted one of the soldiers to open his sacred side with a lance. This was done so that the Church might be formed from the side of Christ as he slept the sleep of death on the cross, and so that the Scripture might be fulfilled: ‘They shall look on him whom they pierced’. The blood and water which poured out at that moment were the price of our salvation. Flowing from the secret abyss of our Lord’s heart as from a fountain, this stream gave the sacraments of the Church the power to confer the life of grace, while for those already living in Christ it became a spring of living water welling up to life everlasting.
Arise, then, beloved of Christ! Imitate the dove ‘that nests in a hole in the cliff’, keeping watch at the entrance ‘like the sparrow that finds a home’. There like the turtledove hide your little ones, the fruit of your chaste love. Press your lips to the fountain, ‘draw water from the wells of your Saviour; for this is the spring flowing out of the middle of paradise, dividing into four rivers’, inundating devout hearts, watering the whole earth and making it fertile.
Run with eager desire to this source of life and light, all you who are vowed to God’s service. Come, whoever you may be, and cry out to him with all the strength of your heart. “O indescribable beauty of the most high God and purest radiance of eternal light! Life that gives all life, light that is the source of every other light, preserving in everlasting splendour the myriad flames that have shone before the throne of your divinity from the dawn of time! Eternal and inaccessible fountain, clear and sweet stream flowing from a hidden spring, unseen by mortal eye! None can fathom your depths nor survey your boundaries, none can measure your breadth, nothing can sully your purity. From you flows ‘the river which gladdens the city of God’ and makes us cry out with joy and thanksgiving in hymns of praise to you, for we know by our own experience that ‘with you is the source of life, and in your light we see light’.
~St. Bonaventure

RESPONSORY
Bless the Lord, my soul, remembering all he has done for you; he rescues your life from deadly peril, crowns you with the gifts of his kindness and compassion.
O taste and see that the Lord is good: he rescues your life from deadly peril, crowns you with the gifts of his kindness and compassion.

Is this long epistle related to the few words i wrote above?

Naijanascam:
Is this long epistle related to the few words i wrote above?

lol

essentialone:
lol

If you happened to write something like this relating to a subject in your exams,, the marker will just give you a resounding OP......

Off point

Naijanascam:
If you happened to write something like this relating to a subject in your exams,, the marker will just give you a resounding OP......

Off point

Hahahahhahahaha. I remember it ooo

A Pastor is just a Position in a Religious Business Company RBC. Nothing more than that.

essentialone:
A Pastor is just a Position in a Religious Business Company RBC. Nothing more than that.

Your statement is a pretty sweeping generalisation. It takes the worst examples of religious commercialism and applies that label to everyone, which isn't logically sound or factually accurate.

There's a world of difference between a megachurch pastor with private jet and a local minister who visits the sick and funds a community food bank, sometimes with his own money, sometimes from those inspired by his work. For the latter (and there are countless individuals like this), being a pastor is a calling to serve, not a business to profit from . They genuinely believe a God exist and has called them to serve humanity. This belief, not greed , is their true motivation. Mother Teresa is the famous example, but she's just a tip of the iceberg .

I worked with a retired colleague who, along with other pastors without their own churches,used her personal funds to visit orphanages and prisons. They donated clothes, food and medicine. That was her ministry and "nothing more than that"

So, perhaps the issue is less with the title "pastor" and more with specific, exploitative models of church leadership.

Well, when something becomes too loud, it becomes the norm. Those we see and know are the Religious Business Centers Pastors. So we can judge them all with that standard. Or should I also go and start looking for Nigerian hip hop artistes who do not smoke Igbo, or to look for Nigerian actresses who are not into Hookup and Prostitution?

essentialone:
Well, when something becomes too loud, it becomes the norm. Those we see and know are the Religious Business Centers Pastors. So we can judge them all with that standard. Or should I also go and start looking for Nigerian hip hop artistes who do not smoke Igbo, or to look for Nigerian actresses who are not into Hookup and Prostitution?

You're proving my point about the danger of generalisations.Your opening statement ," when something becomes too loud it becomes the norm" is completely false and dangerous. You are using it to justify prejudice and cognitive bias. And it explains why you think anyone bearing the title "pastor" is corrupt, just like "every herdsman is a kidnapper". The reasoning is very poor.

Moreover, your analogies about artists and actresses are a deflection. They don't address the fact that your original statement was an overgeneralisation.

If someone said "Every Nigerian youth is an internet fraudster," would you accept that as fair? Or would you point out it's a harmful stereotype that ignores all the hardworking, honest young people?

You would rightly reject that label for yourself if you're not involved. And you wouldn't accept it if they insisted all Nigerian youths are fraudsters because of the "loud" ones like Hushpuppi.

That's my entire point. Judging all pastors by the worst, most visible examples is the same logical error. We can, and must, criticize the corrupt "Religious Business Centres" without claiming that's the only thing a pastor can be.

Using your logic, one can justify any prejudice by pointing to its " loudest" examples.

Ok that pastors I know and see are the ones I described all pastors as. I don't know any sincere or selfless pastor. All are Scammers and Fraudsters.

essentialone:
Ok that pastors I know and see are the ones I described all pastors as. I don't know any sincere or selfless pastor. All are Scammers and Fraudsters.

You've just perfectly illustrated the logical fallacy you've been committing this whole time. You're using your limited personal experience, "the pastors you know" as proof for a claim about all pastors, or for anyone bearing that title.

That's not sound reasoning. It's a perfect definition of hasty generalisation. By that same logic.

If I only knew dishonest lawyers, I could claim all lawyers are dishonest.

If I only knew rude Nigerians, I could claim all Nigerians are rude.

You're admitting your judgement isn't based on the full reality of the group, but on your own limited, and apparently unfortunate, sample size. With this sort of reasoning you've displayed, how do your expect any reasonable person to take your seriously?

There's no further reason to continue. I will leave it there. You have clarified that your stance is based on personal bias, not on an objective fact about the world.

triplechoice:
You've just perfectly illustrated the logical fallacy you've been committing this whole time. You're using your limited personal experience, "the pastors you know" as proof for a claim about all pastors, or for anyone bearing that title.

That's not sound reasoning. It's a perfect definition of hasty generalisation. By that same logic.

If I only knew dishonest lawyers, I could claim all lawyers are dishonest.

If I only knew rude Nigerians, I could claim all Nigerians are rude.

You're admitting your judgement isn't based on the full reality of the group, but on your own limited, and apparently unfortunate, sample size. With this sort of reasoning you've displayed, how do your expect any reasonable person to take your seriously?

There's no further reason to continue. I will leave it there. You have clarified that your stance is based on personal bias, not on an objective fact about the world.

Even the best scientific researches in the world are all based on Sampling. Call it generalizations and it becomes your headache.

When a man or woman is addressed in the public with any religion title such a person is not a disciple of Christ Jesus!



“The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them. “Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long; they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others. “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. The greatest among you will be your servant. For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted. ‭Matthew 23:2-12 NIV‬


Why do people carry religious titles out to the streets?
Jesus answered: To be highly respected and greeted in the public with their titles.

So Jesus commanded his own followers never to be addressed with religious titles rather we all address one another as "BROTHERS" and "SISTERS"

Satan is crafty he may refer to what Paul wrote in the Bible book of Ephesians 4:11


So Christ himself gave the APOSTLES, the PROPHETS, the EVANGELISTS, the PASTORS and TEACHERS, ‭Ephesians 4:11 NIV‬


Does this negates what Jesus taught his disciples?

The answer is NO.

Each disciple who is diligent with his or her discipleship will be given the spirit to serve others in the congregation (church) in different ways but then it's only among the disciples that such ones are recognized due to their activities not by the general public who has nothing to do with the faith.

essentialone:
Even the best scientific researches in the world are all based on Sampling. Call it generalizations and it becomes your headache.

No. It's not my headache. It's yours that you aren't even aware you made a fallacious statement about anyone bearing the title "pastor", .

Instead of acknowledging your mistake, you want to double down on it due to ego.

Your declaration is an unscientific claim. It's based on your personal observation, which is not supported by any valid scientific research. So, don't hide behind science, a methodology for arriving at truth you have shown, by your own comments, you don't even understand

FYI, scientific truths are conventional truths, not absolute; that's why they leave the door open for further research. In your case, you have shut that door firmly, leaving no room for anyone to question your absolute claim; "Nothing more than that"

Sample sizes in the sciences are subjected to rigoruos testing before conclusions are drawn from them. But you know nothing of that. Your "evidence" is merely the anecdotal claim that something is "loud" and therefore true.

You made reference to the " best scientific research". But what valid scientific research have you carried out on this matter? None .

I already stated the discussion couldn't continue, and you have given me further reasons why that decision was a good one.

Say whatever you like. I have made my point clear, which you haven't been able to engage directly, let alone debunk.

MaxInDHouse:
When a man or woman is addressed in the public with any religion title such a person is not a disciple of Christ Jesus!



“The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them. “Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long; they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others. “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. The greatest among you will be your servant. For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted. ‭Matthew 23:2-12 NIV‬


Why do people carry religious titles out to the streets?
Jesus answered: To be highly respected and greeted in the public with their titles.

So Jesus commanded his own followers never to be addressed with religious titles rather we all address one another as "BROTHERS" and "SISTERS"

Satan is crafty he may refer to what Paul wrote in the Bible book of Ephesians 4:11


So Christ himself gave the APOSTLES, the PROPHETS, the EVANGELISTS, the PASTORS and TEACHERS, ‭Ephesians 4:11 NIV‬


Does this negates what Jesus taught his disciples?

The answer is NO.

Each disciple who is diligent with his or her discipleship will be given the spirit to serve others in the congregation (church) in different ways but then it's only among the disciples that such ones are recognized due to their activities not by the general public who has nothing to do with the faith.

Your comment introduces a different issue that is irrelevant to the ongoing discussion.

The topic is not whether it is right for Christians to bear the title of pastor according to one's scriptural interpretation. The topic is whether it is factually accurate to claim that every single person who currently bears that title is necessary holding a position in a "Religious Business Company" , or is inherently corrupt.

Who cares what you think?

I'm talking about what Jesus taught which if not strictly adhered to will lead to problems that warrants the topic of discussion now.

So if nobody bears titles in Christianity do you think such could be a topic of discussion in the first place?

triplechoice:
Your comment introduces a different issue that is irrelevant to the ongoing discussion. The topic is not whether it is right for Christians to bear the title of pastor according to one's scriptural interpretation. The topic is whether it is factually accurate to claim that every single person who currently bears that title is necessary holding a position in a "Religious Business Company" , or is inherently corrupt.

MaxInDHouse:
Who cares what you think?

I'm talking about what Jesus taught which if not strictly adhered to will lead to problems that warrants the topic of discussion now.

So if nobody bears titles in Christianity do you think such could be a topic of discussion in the first place?

Topics of discussion arise from reality, not from ideal world. We discuss corruption among politicians because politicians exist. Arguing we wouldn't need to discuss it if the role didn't exist is trivial and avoids the actual discussion about the people who do fill the role of "pastor".

triplechoice:
Topics of discussion arise from reality, not from ideal world's. We discuss corruption among politicians because politicians exist. Arguing we wouldn't need to discuss it if the role didn't exist is trivial and avoids the actual discussion about the people who do fill the role of "pastor".

That's why i go straight to the root cause of the problem: failure to adhere to what Jesus taught!

MaxInDHouse:
That's why i go straight to the root cause of the problem: failure to adhere to what Jesus taught!

You are arguing that if we simply remove the word "pastor", exploitation would vanish. By that logic, remaining, "corruption" would end corruption, or remaining "Nigerian senators" would end corruption in the upper chamber.

No. This doesn't make sense. Corruption resides in individuals and systems, not in titles . If the title itself were the cause, then every single person bearing it would be doing the same thing, operating a "Religious Business Company". That is plainly false.

triplechoice:
You are arguing that if we simply remove the word "pastor", exploitation would vanish. By that logic, remaining, "corruption" would end corruption, or remaining "Nigerian senators" would end corruption in the upper chamber.
No. This doesn't make sense. Corruption resides in individuals and systems, not in titles . If the title itself were the cause, then every single person bearing it would be doing the same thing, operating a "Religious Business Company". That is plainly false.

You are misplacing what i said.

In politics you have the right to bear whatever title you hold since it's not by faith that people must recognize you rather it's by force as your attendants carry weapons to intimidate whoever look down on you but in Christianity we are submissive to those taking the lead among us because we respect Jesus who is the head of the church.

So if Jesus commanded that they should not take their office to the public we in the congregation gives them double honor even though those outside don't know who they are or what service they are rendering to God's flock.

MaxInDHouse:
You are misplacing what i said.

In politics you have the right to bear whatever title you hold since it's not by faith that people must recognize you rather it's by force as your attendants carry weapons to intimidate whoever look down on you but in Christianity we are submissive to those taking the lead among us because we respect Jesus who is the head of the church.

So if Jesus commanded that they should not take their office to the public we in the congregation gives them double honor even though those outside don't know who they are or what service they are rendering to God's flock.

I'm not "misplacing" what you said. You are the one "misplacing" it by shifting the goalpost.

You just said the title , "pastor" is the root cause of corruption in churches. Now you're arguing that such titles disobey Jesus. Those are two different debates. The first is a logical claim I've addressed. The second is a doctrinal one I'm not having. This discussion is over.

Thank you

triplechoice:
I'm not "misplacing" what you said. You are the one "misplacing" it by shifting the goalpost.
You just said the title , "pastor" is the root cause of corruption in churches. Now you're arguing that public titles disobey Jesus. Those are two different debates. The first is a logical claim I've addressed. The second is a doctrinal one I'm not having. This discussion is over.
Thank you.

There is nothing like public titles in true Christianity no Christian is expected to hold any title recognisable outside the church.

MaxInDHouse:
There is nothing like public titles in true Christianity no Christian is expected to hold any title recognisable outside the church.

I did not say a " Christian is expected to hold any title recognisable outside the church "

I said it is not true that the title "pastor" is the root cause of corruption in the church.