₦airaland Forum

UzorIyke:
What I understand he was trying to said is that the government should not over tax the rich, because if they do, the rich will eventually push the consequences to the poor.

How many rich people pay taxes in Nigeria? Can you compare Nigerias tax system with that of Western countries, e.g U K ? Even the rich wants the benefits of U. K infrastructure but not the taxes. You can't eat your cake and have it.

nairalanda1:


See agbado boy defending his master online, can't these people see that nigerians cannot afford a cup of alomo bitters again'

On a more serious note, thanks, even I have learned a lot. But the thing is, in a country where most people don't pay tax, and most don't like seeing the big picture, people just reject good things out of hand.

Meanwhile, oil prices are set to keep falling, and it will take ages to fix agric and minerals to the level where we was a major producer, and even then that may not help us much...so tax

Also, it helps us to become a nation of saner people...living in a sane country of actual rules.

I don't support APC, but for once, let's start somewhere, or we keep on borrowing. (Sadly the tax thing won't stop borrowing, but it will hopefully reduce it). Oil is not going to climb up to 100 dollars per barrel, and alternative energy gets better and better

A progressive tax system heavily benefits the poor and also the rich. It's about the only way to stop the rich from getting accumulating all the wealth and leaving the poor to chase crumbs. To be honest, I'm surprised it took us this long.

If we think the no tax band is too low, that could be adjusted with time. If we think too many will evade taxes, enforcement should be broadened. If we think it'd be misused, we should hold our leaders to account which this actually helps to achieve

I agreee we need to start from somewhere. And BTW, I never supported Tinubu

matify83:
I will spell it out for you to understand.
Don't be carried away by the reprieve it claims to offer to the poor.

1- Did you hear when it was said that even prostitutes will pay their taxes?
Are these the people that government should be concentrating on if they have no alterior motive.

2- The law also stipulates that no TIN no bank account. Don't you suspect foul play at this junction?

3- small companies whose total turn over is less than 50m are said to be exempt from CIT. What government did not tell you explicitly is that, they are still required to file their financial statements through the TaxPro Max portal each year to maintain compliance status. However, if the company fails to file returns on time, the benefit of N50million threshold is lost. Trust that most companies will not keep a good enough account of their financial transactions for the year to qualify for the tax holiday

4-The large companies and high salary individuals whose taxes has risen to a 25% at the highest point are mostly the owners of these big companies and they will just plough back the taxes as cost of production thereby causing the cost-push inflation I earlier highlighted.

What the government did not take into cognizance is that the rich always have a way of avoiding these taxes as they can funnel their salaries and allowance into their company expenses and it is legal. Ask Trump why he brags about not paying taxes and he's not in jail. It's called Tax loopholes

5- with the Cost-push inflation, who takes the hit , it obviously the poor and middle class in the society.

6- This new tax policy to my mind is going to roll back the cashless policy as most Nigerians would start demanding cash payments to avoid exceeding the 800k threshold.

7- Other obnoxious clauses have also been introduced into the tax law that we are still oblivious of and it has been gazetted. It's only in court you may find out and it may be too late by then.

No government should ever be trusted. Heed this advice for the peace of your mind.

What's your issue with companies paying tax?
Companies pay tax on profit which comes after expenses. Any large company should know that they'd pay tax. That's their contribution to the wider society. As the society gets richer and the middle class increases, their profits increase.
Any company with a turnover of 50million that cannot get it's accounts sorted in time should face adequate penalties. This is not rocket science- it's how societies work.
We need to stop seeing taxes as just someone taking but as part of the cost to live in a decent society. What we should push for is it being progressive and amounts raised well used.

Let me ask, what would be your solution to the 'issues' you listed?

ambale:
And has the government ever distributed any wealth equally??

They live beyond their means and keep the people in perpetual slavery

Isn't it worrisome that an average working Nigerian can't even live a good life without getting their hands soiled?

No government is perfect. We could start by holding those in power to account. That includes politicians when they waste money snd pastors when they say things like this.

If you want a country with a thriving middle class where the average person can buy a new car, live in a decent house, enjoy good healthcare and infrastructure, then we need to understand how modern economies work. The system we have now only guarantees poverty.

If there's one thing to note, taxation manytimes helps citizens to be alive to their responsibilities. People are more likely to demand better when they can see it's their money being spent.

jedisco:
No government is perfect. We could start by holding those in power to account. That includes politicians when they waste money snd pastors when they say things like this.

If you want a country with a thriving middle class where the average person can buy a new car, live in a decent house, enjoy good healthcare and infrastructure, then we need to understand how modern economies work. The system we have now only guarantees poverty.

If there's one thing to note, taxation manytimes helps citizens to be alive to their responsibilities. People are more likely to demand better when they can see it's their money being spent.

Does this particular government looks like one that will even accept your criticisms??

They only want to loot and make people look away now

House2:
I never knew some reasonable and intelligent writer like you are still on Nairaland
99% of people just react based on emotion and the sour of the moment in our society today. We are devoiced of the capacity to reason.
Listening to the sweet phonetics of Pastor Chris on this subject, people had already agreed with his myopic view about how Economics works.
From this video, its glaring the he doesn't have the basic understanding or knowledge of what progressive taxation entails.

Someone should remind him to stick to his preaching of the word of God.

The sad part is the gullible amongst us had already taken his views on this subject hook line and sinker

Stack illiterates everywhere

I would use derogatory words to describe ourselves though. People see things differently and I might have been against this if I hadn't seen how many successful nations build and sustain wealth.

DeOTR:
TIN requirements for banking ensures compliance.
I don't see anything special about this new tax law, but I'm pretty sure it's not going to cause inflation or anything remotely related to that. The idea that this will roll back the gains of cashless policy is unfounded. Not every credit alert is a revenue. You pay tax on your income, not on the total amount of money that gets into your account. The government are aware of this.
You didn't answer the question by the original poster about the current rate and the new one. What exactly is the difference that it will cause a cost-push inflation?

The question you guys are not asking is, who does the separation of what is just a money inflow and which is income into an account?

I'm just reading comments here I'm just laughing....

jedisco:
No government is perfect. We could start by holding those in power to account. That includes politicians when they waste money snd pastors when they say things like this.

If you want a country with a thriving middle class where the average person can buy a new car, live in a decent house, enjoy good healthcare and infrastructure, then we need to understand how modern economies work. The system we have now only guarantees poverty.

If there's one thing to note, taxation manytimes helps citizens to be alive to their responsibilities. People are more likely to demand better when they can see it's their money being spent.

And how do you want to hold Tinubu's government to account ?

I need your solution on how to go about it?

matify83:
Thanks for your civility!

Ordinarily, an increase in personal income tax will not cause inflation.
Why: taxes reduces the disposable income of the workforce and there is decreased purchasing power leading to a stability or fall in cost of goods and services. (The president already promised this)
Won't this add to our misery?

However, employing the same tactic to the super rich and big businesses does not generate the same results as increased taxes on manufacturing adds to the cost of production just the way increasing workers salary is also a factor in the cost of production. Hence the cost- push inflation added to the decreased purchasing power of the nation since the tax net is now wider to catch everyone.

For those thinking they would automatically be exempt if they don't have a means of income. This only applies after you file your tax clearance. If you don't, you will be treated like a defaulters.

On closer look at the new tax law, most people are going to be paying lesser. It's going to reduce disposable income for those who might be earning N12m above annually, even then, the changes are not that neck breaking. The only gray area is identifying what credit alert is an income. I'm not sure even they know how that's going to play out, but I don't think anyone should tax money movement from one personal account to another or money sent to people as gifts.
I don't think the rich will be able to push their personal tax burdens to production cost. It's not that simple. For corporate entities, maybe, but not personal. With the new tax law, you're going to be paying taxes on company provided accomodations for instance, so I don't see how the rich will successfully push all their personal spendings as corporate.

Brendaniel:
The question you guys are not asking is, who does the separation of what is just a money inflow and which is income into an account?

I'm just reading comments here I'm just laughing....

Even they don't know how that will work. I don't see any pathway to implementing that part.

DeOTR:
On closer look at the new tax law, most people are going to be paying lesser. It's going to reduce disposable income for those who might be earning N12m above annually, even then, the changes are not that neck breaking. The only gray area is identifying what credit alert is an income. I'm not sure even they know how that's going to play out, but I don't think anyone should tax money movement from one personal account to another or money sent to people as gifts.
I don't think the rich will be able to push their personal tax burdens to production cost. It's not that simple. For corporate entities, maybe, but not personal. With the new tax law, you're going to be paying taxes on company provided accomodations for instance, so I don't see how the rich will successfully push all their personal spendings as corporate.

When they said bandits, kidnappers and prostitutes will pay tax, what comes to your mind?

From what it looks like they plan deducting the tax from everybody's account based on the flow of money once it hits the thresholds for taxation, this is what I call tax banditry, or would they in their right senses expect bandits, kidnappers and prostitutes to walk into a bank or revenue agency to declare or pay their tax for their profession ?


That's why I look at the whole tax law as financial theft and fraud from the government...

matify83:
I will spell it out for you to understand.
Don't be carried away by the reprieve it claims to offer to the poor.

1- Did you hear when it was said that even prostitutes will pay their taxes?
Are these the people that government should be concentrating on if they have no alterior motive.

2- The law also stipulates that no TIN no bank account. Don't you suspect foul play at this junction?

3- small companies whose total turn over is less than 50m are said to be exempt from CIT. What government did not tell you explicitly is that, they are still required to file their financial statements through the TaxPro Max portal each year to maintain compliance status. However, if the company fails to file returns on time, the benefit of N50million threshold is lost. Trust that most companies will not keep a good enough account of their financial transactions for the year to qualify for the tax holiday

4-The large companies and high salary individuals whose taxes has risen to a 25% at the highest point are mostly the owners of these big companies and they will just plough back the taxes as cost of production thereby causing the cost-push inflation I earlier highlighted.

What the government did not take into cognizance is that the rich always have a way of avoiding these taxes as they can funnel their salaries and allowance into their company expenses and it is legal. Ask Trump why he brags about not paying taxes and he's not in jail. It's called Tax loopholes

5- with the Cost-push inflation, who takes the hit , it obviously the poor and middle class in the society.

6- This new tax policy to my mind is going to roll back the cashless policy as most Nigerians would start demanding cash payments to avoid exceeding the 800k threshold.

7- Other obnoxious clauses have also been introduced into the tax law that we are still oblivious of and it has been gazetted. It's only in court you may find out and it may be too late by then.

No government should ever be trusted. Heed this advice for the peace of your mind.

Your lenghty post, ultimately ignorant in totality, shows you know nothing at all about the new tax policy and what it seeks to achieve.

You're simply being driven by emotions, sentiments and prejudices that has made you relegate the input of the part of your brain used for logical thinking.

Go and educate yourself properly. The new tax policy is nothing but long overdue socio-economic evolution, many developed nations scaled literally decades ago, that Nigeria must now embrace to move forward significantly.

DeOTR:
On closer look at the new tax law, most people are going to be paying lesser. It's going to reduce disposable income for those who might be earning N12m above annually, even then, the changes are not that neck breaking. The only gray area is identifying what credit alert is an income. I'm not sure even they know how that's going to play out, but I don't think anyone should tax money movement from one personal account to another or money sent to people as gifts.
I don't think the rich will be able to push their personal tax burdens to production cost. It's not that simple. For corporate entities, maybe, but not personal. With the new tax law, you're going to be paying taxes on company provided accomodations for instance, so I don't see how the rich will successfully push all their personal spendings as corporate.

I quite understand .

I can already see the confusion that the tax law is going to engender and we are not seeing it yet.

Most of the people earning below 800k per year who think the tax reprieve is automatic will be shocked when they discover that without filing a tax return at the end of the year, they are liable to being charged with tax evasion.

It is not like I don't pay my taxes. Infact my income tax currently is exactly N111,116.90 per month ( checked my payslip) which is bound to reduce marginally with the new tax law.

However, the same can't be said of most others especially the high net worth who invariably are the CEOs of these manufacturing companies and industries.

A recent article on why cement is more expensive in Nigeria than other countries highlighted our high CIT and other taxes as a primary reason. This statement came from no less a person than Dangote. Are we, who have not ventured into his manufacturing scale going to debunk his claims with our theory based knowledge?

Elon musk does not pay tax, Warren Buffett' tax is so insignificant that he claims his secretary pays way higher. Trump has always bragged that he doesn't not pay tax. Robert kiyosaki also does not pay income tax. How do they do it? TAX AVOIDANCE .

By tax avoidance (not evasion), these high net worth individuals would legally outsmart the system and it's me and you that would be left holding the bag.


Look beyond the letters of the tax law and see the leeway it indirectly offers those we think it is supposed to milk

WizardOfNG:
Your lenghty post, ultimately ignorant in totality, shows you know nothing at all about the new tax policy and what it seeks to achieve.

You're simply being driven by emotions, sentiments and prejudices that has made you relegate the input of the part of your brain used for logical thinking.

Go and educate yourself properly. The new tax policy is nothing but long overdue socio-economic evolution, many developed nations scaled literally decades ago, that Nigeria must now embrace to move forward significantly.

Your vituperation is noted.

Have a good day!

matify83:
I quite understand .

I can already see the confusion that the tax law is going to engender and we are not seeing it yet.

Most of the people earning below 800k per year who think the tax reprieve is automatic will be shocked when they discover that without filing a tax return at the end of the year, they are liable to being charged with tax evasion.

It is not like I don't pay my taxes. Infact my income tax currently is exactly N111,116.90 per month ( checked my payslip) which is bound to reduce marginally with the new tax law.

However, the same can't be said of most others especially the high net worth who invariably are the CEOs of these manufacturing companies and industries.

A recent article on why cement is more expensive in Nigeria than other countries highlighted our high CIT and other taxes as a primary reason. This statement came from no less a person than Dangote. Are we, who have not ventured into his manufacturing scale going to debunk his claims with our theory based knowledge?

Elon musk does not pay tax, Warren Buffett' tax is so insignificant that he claims his secretary pays way higher. Trump has always bragged that he doesn't not pay tax. Robert kiyosaki also does not pay income tax. How do they do it? TAX AVOIDANCE .

By tax avoidance (not evasion), these high net worth individuals would legally outsmart the system and it's me and you that would be left holding the bag.


Look beyond the letters of the tax law and see the leeway it indirectly offers those we think it is supposed to milk

Going by what's in the new tax law, it would be difficult for company owners to legally evade tax. You can't hide under corporate entities any longer as you'll be required to pay tax on luxuries you enjoy by virtue of your position in any organization. For instance, you'd still paying taxes on company provided accomodations. We can't expect everything to work 100%, as it's only a government policy not known before implementation can come close to near success. Citizens by default works against government policies so much that the projected effects are almost not tangible. It's part of economics.

Brendaniel:
When they said bandits, kidnappers and prostitutes will pay tax, what comes to your mind?

From what it looks like they plan deducting the tax from everybody's account based on the flow of money once it hits the thresholds for taxation, this is what I call tax banditry, or would they in their right senses expect bandits, kidnappers and prostitutes to walk into a bank or revenue agency to declare or pay their tax for their profession ?


That's why I look at the whole tax law as financial theft and fraud from the government...

I don't think they know what to do about the part that pertains to money inflow into individual accounts yet.
I guess it's time to start writing summarize for outbound transactions starting from January so that someone will not tax you for transferring your money from one of your accounts to the other.

DeOTR:
Going by what's in the new tax law, it would be difficult for company owners to legally evade tax. You can't hide under corporate entities any longer as you'll be required to pay tax on luxuries you enjoy by virtue of your position in any organization. For instance, you'd still paying taxes on company provided accomodations. We can't expect everything to work 100%, as it's only a government policy not known before implementation can come close to near success. Citizens by default works against government policies so much that the projected effects are almost not tangible. It's part of economics.

The tax laws are just copy and paste from other jurisdictions with minor tweaks.

There's a difference between Tax avoidance and tax evasion.

Tax avoidance seeks legal loopholes in the tax laws to reduce or not pay taxes at all while tax evasion is an outright crime.

Tax consultants are ever ready to offer their services to anyone wanting to reduce or avoid paying taxes and it is legal even in the USA, UK etc

Brendaniel:
When they said bandits, kidnappers and prostitutes will pay tax, what comes to your mind?

From what it looks like they plan deducting the tax from everybody's account based on the flow of money once it hits the thresholds for taxation, this is what I call tax banditry, or would they in their right senses expect bandits, kidnappers and prostitutes to walk into a bank or revenue agency to declare or pay their tax for their profession ?


That's why I look at the whole tax law as financial theft and fraud from the government...

And how does 'everyone earning above a treshold would be liable to pay tax translate into the bolded? No need scaremongering.

These tax laws have been one of the basic fulcrums of many advanced societies for decades. We need to decide if we want to move this country forward or keep our people wallowing in poverty. The standard of living and good things people see abroad were the result of deliberate actions

jedisco:
And how does 'everyone earning above a treshold would be liable to pay tax translate into the bolded? No need scaremongering.

These tax laws have been one of the basic fulcrums of many advanced societies for decades. We need to decide if we want to move this country forward or keep our people wallowing in poverty. The standard of living and good things people see abroad were the result of deliberate actions

What has the subsidy removal and other tariff and tax increase done ?

Also how does the government plan to separate income and money inflow for non employed Nigerians?

I mean how does the government determine what is inflow and what is income into a person's account?

Brendaniel:
What has the subsidy removal and other tariff and tax increase done ?

Also how does the government plan to separate income and money inflow for non employed Nigerians?

I mean how does the government determine what is inflow and what is income into a person's account?

Self employed residents and business owners would need to submit their tax returns i.e a statement of how much they earned and the government tells them what tax is due.

Has it been stated the government would go perusing thru peoples account to decide who pays tax or not? Just to be clear, the revenue agency should be able to investigate people's account if they suspect fraud but that shouldn't be the norm

It can be argued that the receipts from subsidy removal haven't been used well but that's not a reason not to have taken it away. It was bankrupting the nation. Focus from the citizens should now move to mandating tax receipts are used appropriately. Taxation helps drive engagement in politics. When citizens understand it's their money the governor or his son is frolicking with, they reduce the 'dobale' and begin to demand answers. Also, progressive taxation is one of the few proven ways to reduce wealth inequality and give the many poor a chance.


Let's be clear- this is just being introduced and there'd be teething and compliance issues. However if built on, we'd have a robust system with time. Countries have had modern tax systems for several decades- the challenges we'd encounter are likely to have been adressed elsewhere.

jedisco:
Self employed residents and business owners would need to submit their tax returns i.e a statement of how much they earned and the government tells them what tax is due.

Has it been stated the government would go perusing thru peoples account to decide who pays tax or not? Just to be clear, the revenue agency should be able to investigate people's account if they suspect fraud but that shouldn't be the norm

It can be argued that the receipts from subsidy removal haven't been used well but that's not a reason not to have taken it away. It was bankrupting the nation. Focus from the citizens should now move to mandating tax receipts are used appropriately. Taxation helps drive engagement in politics. When citizens understand it's their money the governor or his son is frolicking with, they reduce the 'dobale' and begin to demand answers. Also, progressive taxation is one of the few proven ways to reduce wealth inequality and give the many poor a chance.


Let's be clear- this is just being introduced and there'd be teething and compliance issues. However if built on, we'd have a robust system with time. Countries have had modern tax systems for several decades- the challenges we'd encounter are likely to have been adressed elsewhere.

And which Nigerian is going to do the bolded?

Between you and the government, who is the bigger joker?

The rest of your talk here is thrash because you are not facing reality...

Brendaniel:
And which Nigerian is going to do the bolded?

Between you and the government, who is the bigger joker?

The rest of your talk here is thrash because you are not facing reality...

Like I said, it's a step at a time.

You need to learn how societies work. Taxation is basic economics that has been going on for decades. A simple Google search on how others do it would help.

jedisco:
Like I said, it's a step at a time.

You need to learn how societies work. Taxation is basic economics that has been going on for decades. A simple Google search on how others do it would help.

You still don't want to face reality....

Brendaniel:
You still don't want to face reality....

Reality that if we don't start fixing basic things in our country the majority would be condemned to poverty?
Look around... the world is leaving us behind.

jedisco:
Reality that if we don't start fixing basic things in our country the majority would be condemned to poverty?
Look around... the world is leaving us behind.

Basic things like light, security, roads, emergency services, hospitals, schools, corruption and so on, what is Tinubu's scorecard in fixing all of these?

it is to collect tax you are calling fixing of basic things, look you are not being realistic at all, is Tinubu leading by example to Nigerians?