₦airaland Forum

FxMasterz:
This is babyish talk. By saying investigation won't make it appear even sounds much more incoherent. Because investigation doesn't make anything appear. It reveals what's already there.

And as I said earlier, your capacity to perceive is in itself a limit on your investigation. There are frequencies you cannot perceive and therefore cannot investigate. In fact, a dog and an elephant have better chances than you a human. If you can still argue this, it means you're closed to anything logical, you just want to keep on believing what you believe.

See, as it stands, heaven could be within our universe billions or even trillions of light years away. And also, both God and heaven could also be around us in a frequency we can never naturally perceive. I also believe that there are frequencies in which even our solid state here cannot be perceived.

Know your limitations and stop pretending you know everything and can access everything.

What I know is that Prayer as a spiritual exercise, when practiced consistently can make you perceive things from a different frequency that others cannot perceive.

You the one spewing babyish jibber jabber. Because we can't natural perceive beyond certain electromagnetic frequencies doesn’t mean they are inscrutable to us. We make instruments for that purpose so to act like this some kind of point is balderdash.

The history of investigation has never revealed any god behind any phenomena so no reason to believe this will be different. It has nothing to do with knowing everything.

If your god is operating on an electromagnetic frequency tell us what the frequency is and if you don't know then stop using your ignorance as a cover for your beliefs.

FxMasterz:
You got it bro!

Infact, it is still within logical reasoning frameworks to assume that the universe itself may be God. We have only seen a little within the universe. No one has seen the whole universe let alone seeing the outside of it.

We cannot truly know what the universe is until we can observe it from the outside of the universe itself. What if this universe itself is a huge living being that has a different build from us, and the planets, and all heavenly bodies are parts of what keeps it alive?

All descriptions of the universe are based on what we see on its inside from its inside. Imagine the microbes inside your gut describing you on the basis of what they see in your stomach? Atheists just need to think harder and stop being myopic. I hope lordreed and jaephoenix in particular are reading.

If the universe is a “being,” then we would see:

- Stars/galaxies as cells?
- Black holes as… pores?
- Humans as microbes in its gut?

No can ever tell.

LoLz. You people and mental gymnastics never cease to amaze. How do you go from the universe is god to the universe sent its son to die for sins? Are you even listen to your own jibber jabber? Bwahahahahahaha!

LordReed:
You the one spewing babyish jibber jabber. Because we can't natural perceive beyond certain electromagnetic frequencies doesn’t mean they are inscrutable to us. We make instruments for that purpose so to act like this some kind of point is balderdash.

The history of investigation has never revealed any god behind any phenomena so no reason to believe this will be different. It has nothing to do with knowing everything.

If your god is operating on an electromagnetic frequency tell us what the frequency is and if you don't know then stop using your ignorance as a cover for your beliefs.

You mentioned and named electromagnetism because you have had instruments that have perceived that frequency. What about the frequencies your instruments cannot perceive, and have not even been named? I just want you to think in a much broader scope.

DeepSight:
+
I don't agree with him saying that atheists make such a claim. Indeed I specifically said he is misrepresenting you a bit.

You will see that in the post I agreed to, he was not talking about atheists claiming that. He was addressing atheists saying the cause is unknown and concluded that saying a thing is unknown is different from saying it doesn't exist. That's what I agreed with.

Nobidy says because certain things are unknown therefore a god doesn’t exist. There are several other reasons to say the god does exist.

LordReed:
LoLz. You people and mental gymnastics never cease to amaze. How do you go from the universe is god to the universe sent its son to die for sins? Are you even listen to your own jibber jabber? Bwahahahahahaha!

You should laugh at yourself because I never made any of those claims you're making here. Can you show me where I said the universe is God? Why are you atheists like this? Can you now tell me what the universe is as an observer from outside the universe?

FxMasterz:
You got it bro!

Infact, it is still within logical reasoning frameworks to assume that the universe itself may be God. We have only seen a little within the universe. No one has seen the whole universe let alone seeing the outside of it.

We cannot truly know what the universe is until we can observe it from the outside of the universe itself. What if this universe itself is a huge living being that has a different build from us, and the planets, and all heavenly bodies are parts of what keeps it alive?

All descriptions of the universe are based on what we see on its inside from its inside. Imagine the microbes inside your gut describing you on the basis of what they see in your stomach? Atheists just need to think harder and stop being myopic. I hope lordreed and jaephoenix in particular are reading.

If the universe is a “being,” then we would see:

- Stars/galaxies as cells?
- Black holes as… pores?
- Humans as microbes in its gut?

No one can ever tell.

Modified: Just thinking out loud. The essence is for us to know that there are possibilities beyond our natural scope.

+
Brilliant.

This possibility - that the universe may be a living thing we dwell in and are part of just as you described, is something I have always thought of. In fact, one old poster on this platform said a similar thing years ago which I was happy to hear because I had been thinking it. The post was by a brilliant chap called Agentofallah. Can't find it.

A sort of pantheistic view.

LordReed:
You the one spewing babyish jibber jabber. Because we can't natural perceive beyond certain electromagnetic frequencies doesn’t mean they are inscrutable to us. We make instruments for that purpose so to act like this some kind of point is balderdash.

The history of investigation has never revealed any god behind any phenomena so no reason to believe this will be different. It has nothing to do with knowing everything.

If your god is operating on an electromagnetic frequency tell us what the frequency is and if you don't know then stop using your ignorance as a cover for your beliefs.

+
Doubtless there will be much even our instruments cannot perceive. Unknown unknowns. Things that we cannot even conceive of and thus cannot create an instrument for at all. Anymore than an ant can conceive of computer software.

LordReed:
Nobidy says because certain things are unknown therefore a god doesn’t exist. There are several other reasons to say the god does exist.

+
This kind of absolute negative is hard to impossible to prove. But if we are talking about any of those gods as described by religion I hear you and agree.

FxMasterz:
You mentioned and named electromagnetism because you have had instruments that have perceived that frequency. What about the frequencies your instruments cannot perceive, and have not even been named? I just want you to think in a much broader scope.

+
There will be unknown unknowns that we will never even think of because they rest outside our ability to contemplate in the first place just as an ant will never contemplate computer software or poetry or nuclear physics.

DeepSight:
+
There will be unknown unknowns that we will never even think of because they rest outside our ability to contemplate in the first place just as an ant will never contemplate computer software or poetry or nuclear physics.

Spiot on!

Jaephoenix and lordreed. Please take note of this too. We're very limited and can therefore not make any absolute confusions about anything.

DeepSight:
+
This kind of absolute negative is hard to impossible to prove. But if we are talking about any of those gods as described by religion I hear you and agree.

Yes because you cannot absolutely prove something doesn't exist. A non existent thing doesn't leave evidence to prove its nonexistence.

LordReed:
Yes because you cannot absolutely prove something doesn't exist. A non existent thing doesn't leave evidence to prove its nonexistence.

+
Yeah.

Nonetheless we have had cause to infer the existence of certain things. Black holes for example. Simplistic analogy you may say, but the point is that we do draw from evident effects to infer what cannot itself be seen.

But we can agree that certain impossible things do not exist. Such a square circles.

FxMasterz:
You're correct but the situation is not just 'likely', it's the absolute truth.

Most of what exists is entirely invisible to us. Humans only see light between 430-790THz and hear sounds between 20Hz-20KHz.

This is a popular science fact meant to highlight the limitations of human senses, emphasizing how much of reality we miss.

Vision (light) :
Human eyes detect only a tiny sliver of the electromagnetic spectrum called visible light.

This corresponds to wavelengths roughly 380–750 nanometers (nm), which translates to frequencies of about 400–790 THz (terahertz, or trillion hertz).

- Red light: lower end, around 430 THz.
- Violet light: higher end, around 790 THz.

The numbers (430–790 THz) are a common scientific approximation.

Everything else—infrared (heat), ultraviolet, X-rays, radio waves, microwaves, gamma rays—is invisible to us without tools like cameras, telescopes, or detectors. And these instruments still remain limited in capabilities. Visible light is less than 0.005% of the full electromagnetic spectrum, so most electromagnetic radiation (and much of what it reveals about the universe) is invisible.

Hearing (sound) .:
Humans typically hear sounds with frequencies from 20 Hz (very low bass) to 20,000 Hz (20 kHz, high-pitched).

"20Hz-20KHz," is the standard adult range (though it narrows with age, especially above 15–17 kHz).

Sounds below 20 Hz (infrasound) or above 20 kHz (ultrasound) exist but are inaudible to us—animals like elephants (infrasound) or bats/dogs (ultrasound) can detect them. And you can be rest assured there are other unnamed sound frequencies nothing in the world has ever detected.

The Broader Point
Philosophically/scientifically: our senses evolved for survival, not to perceive "everything." Vast parts of reality—dark matter/energy (95% of the universe), non-visible radiation, inaudible vibrations—are "invisible" or imperceptible. We rely on science and technology to uncover an infinitesimally small percentage of them. Even what we know if the universe today as vast as that knowledge is, is still approximately 0% of the entire universe.

So, how can any same man confidently say "There's no God" as though he has seen, heard and known everything there is. It is absolute foolishness.

I have come to a point of realization that even the so called "Spirit realm" is simply a frequency that exists beyond the bondaries of our natural perception. Nobody sees everything that's around him at any given time. Infact, the unseen is infinitely more than the seen.

An atheist is like a Peck of chickens hatched and grown in a closed and conditioned cage with just a hole somewhere on the cage for passing food and water. It will be foolish for those chickens to arise one day, and say there's no human just because they've never seen or perceived anything beyond the walls of their cage. And when asked how the food from that hole happens, they answer it happens from nothing or unknown (like what I have seen lordreed and jaephoenix claim on this thread). The truth is that the food comes from something unknown indeed to the chickens but claiming there's no entity behind the food is absolute foolishness.

Both claims of the world coming from nothing and/or unknown leading to a conclusion that there's no God just make me chuckle. They don't sound intelligent to me.

Disinfectant123 is asking for evidence that the God exists without seeing that there's no evidence He doesn't.

If atheists have any shame, Cycleoftheworld has dissipated virtually all the arguments atheists hold onto on this thread, but since Atheism itself is some form of 'religion', atheists must defend themselves even with lies, denials and misinformation.

What we know as humans even with our scientific advancements is still nothingness compared to what there is. Wait until you know everything at least, before you say in absolutes that there's no God. And you guys should stop being illogical and contradictory because claiming there's no God is the same as claiming there's no cause. And science has established that effects are always causative. All the effects we see in the universe were therefore caused.Whatever caused them, be it human or things, or places or whatever, whether imaginable or unimaginable is what we call God. A reasonable human would go on a quest for find what it is rather that talk in absolutes about God not existing. Majority of the scientists in the world actually believe in the existence of God. Only a very small percentage are atheists.

We humans don't know anything about the universe yet. We're still exploring. We don't even know anything about our world yet. We have very little knowledge of it because we're limited in sight and in hearing. Wise men would prepare for evehtualities in such situations as ours. Walking arrogantly with blind confidence is foolhardy.

Thats the thing lmao
How do you worship a thing that you are not sure that exists? Atheism is simply the LACK of evidence that God exists youre referring to gnsotic atheism which thy claim that a god dosent 100% exist

Disinfectant123:
Thats the thing lmao
How do you worship a thing that you are not sure that exists?

No, I know what I worship.

I operate at a frequency you cannot perceive because you cannot bring yourself to the exercise of the tasks that could make you perceive God.

FxMasterz:
No, I know what I worship.

I operate at a frequency you cannot perceive because you cannot bring yourself to the exercise of the tasks that could make you perceive God.

You worship jesus/God all Im asking is that you should PROVIDE at least some evidence that he exists. Not some "miracle" (which you seemingly thank god but not the doctor?)

Disinfectant123:
You worship jesus/God all Im asking is that you should PROVIDE at least some evidence that he exists. Not some "miracle" (which you seemingly thank god but not the doctor?)

No one provided evidence for me before I found Him. You can search Him too if you desire to know the truth. I do not owe you any evidence.

FxMasterz:
No one provided evidence for me before I found Him. You can search Him too if you desire to know the truth. I do not owe you any evidence.

Mate if an all present god cannot provide the smallest evidence of him existing then why should anyone worship him?

Disinfectant123:
Mate if an all present god cannot provide the smallest evidence of him existing then why should anyone worship him?

Look around you, His evidence are everywhere around you. Nothing you see around you came into existence by accident. An intelligent programmer programmed them into being, and that includes your body.

FxMasterz:
Look around you, His evidence are everywhere around you. Nothing you see around you came into existence by accident. An intelligent programmer programmed them into being, and that includes your body.

So WHY can he not reveal himself to me? Which evidence?

DeepSight:
+
Have you read it or listened to him defend the arguments in it? Because he did argue that the universe came from nothing.

Does he do a podcast or something

Disinfectant123:
So WHY can he not reveal himself to me? Which evidence?

He is not in.your realm and does not believe to your frequency. He has revealed ways you can use to approach Him.vut you rejected them.

jaephoenix:
Does he do a podcast or something

+
He has defended it at several debates against various theists. Try YouTube.

FxMasterz:
You're correct but the situation is not just 'likely', it's the absolute truth.

Most of what exists is entirely invisible to us. Humans only see light between 430-790THz and hear sounds between 20Hz-20KHz.

This is a popular science fact meant to highlight the limitations of human senses, emphasizing how much of reality we miss.

Vision (light) :
Human eyes detect only a tiny sliver of the electromagnetic spectrum called visible light.

This corresponds to wavelengths roughly 380–750 nanometers (nm), which translates to frequencies of about 400–790 THz (terahertz, or trillion hertz).

- Red light: lower end, around 430 THz.
- Violet light: higher end, around 790 THz.

The numbers (430–790 THz) are a common scientific approximation.

Everything else—infrared (heat), ultraviolet, X-rays, radio waves, microwaves, gamma rays—is invisible to us without tools like cameras, telescopes, or detectors. And these instruments still remain limited in capabilities. Visible light is less than 0.005% of the full electromagnetic spectrum, so most electromagnetic radiation (and much of what it reveals about the universe) is invisible.

Hearing (sound) .:
Humans typically hear sounds with frequencies from 20 Hz (very low bass) to 20,000 Hz (20 kHz, high-pitched).

"20Hz-20KHz," is the standard adult range (though it narrows with age, especially above 15–17 kHz).

Sounds below 20 Hz (infrasound) or above 20 kHz (ultrasound) exist but are inaudible to us—animals like elephants (infrasound) or bats/dogs (ultrasound) can detect them. And you can be rest assured there are other unnamed sound frequencies nothing in the world has ever detected.

The Broader Point
Philosophically/scientifically: our senses evolved for survival, not to perceive "everything." Vast parts of reality—dark matter/energy (95% of the universe), non-visible radiation, inaudible vibrations—are "invisible" or imperceptible. We rely on science and technology to uncover an infinitesimally small percentage of them. Even what we know if the universe today as vast as that knowledge is, is still approximately 0% of the entire universe.

So, how can any same man confidently say "There's no God" as though he has seen, heard and known everything there is. It is absolute foolishness.

I have come to a point of realization that even the so called "Spirit realm" is simply a frequency that exists beyond the bondaries of our natural perception. Nobody sees everything that's around him at any given time. Infact, the unseen is infinitely more than the seen.

An atheist is like a Peck of chickens hatched and grown in a closed and conditioned cage with just a hole somewhere on the cage for passing food and water. It will be foolish for those chickens to arise one day, and say there's no human just because they've never seen or perceived anything beyond the walls of their cage. And when asked how the food from that hole happens, they answer it happens from nothing or unknown (like what I have seen lordreed and jaephoenix claim on this thread). The truth is that the food comes from something unknown indeed to the chickens but claiming there's no entity behind the food is absolute foolishness.

Both claims of the world coming from nothing and/or unknown leading to a conclusion that there's no God just make me chuckle. They don't sound intelligent to me.

Disinfectant123 is asking for evidence that the God exists without seeing that there's no evidence He doesn't.

If atheists have any shame, Cycleoftheworld has dissipated virtually all the arguments atheists hold onto on this thread, but since Atheism itself is some form of 'religion', atheists must defend themselves even with lies, denials and misinformation.

What we know as humans even with our scientific advancements is still nothingness compared to what there is. Wait until you know everything at least, before you say in absolutes that there's no God. And you guys should stop being illogical and contradictory because claiming there's no God is the same as claiming there's no cause. And science has established that effects are always causative. All the effects we see in the universe were therefore caused.Whatever caused them, be it human or things, or places or whatever, whether imaginable or unimaginable is what we call God. A reasonable human would go on a quest for find what it is rather that talk in absolutes about God not existing. Majority of the scientists in the world actually believe in the existence of God. Only a very small percentage are atheists.

We humans don't know anything about the universe yet. We're still exploring. We don't even know anything about our world yet. We have very little knowledge of it because we're limited in sight and in hearing. Wise men would prepare for evehtualities in such situations as ours. Walking arrogantly with blind confidence is foolhardy.

You saying you don't know doesn't make one stvvpid, it actually makes one smart. If you say we cant see beyond a point,how do you know there is something beyond that spectrum? Ok,let's assume there's a creator. Which one outta the 1000s gods claim should we believe and why

FxMasterz:
l

Let's not complicate the issue about causation for atheists. Their stance is entirely contradictory, and let me spell it out in simple terms.

If I say for example, the big bang happened and was caused by nothing, that literally means the big bang didn't start at any point in time. It is continous workflow from eternity which is very illogical. Atheists on this thread have said they make no such claims.

Niw if I say the big bang's causation was unknown. It gets really interesting because "unknown" is not the same as "nothing", so how does this justify the idea that there's no God. "I don't know what caused the big bang" cannot be rendered as God or the Causer of the big bang does not exist because "I don't know" is not the same thing as "It doesn't exist". Not knowing what caused something is not a logical basis for concluding that the cause doesn't exist.

So, without referring to physics, the atheists positions are logically unsound.

Because the idea of a god doesn't make sense. Remember humans thought lightning was caused by gods. So instead of saying creation is by a god,we can say we don't know.
Also the problem of saying 'God did' is this. Which god? Also assuming we insert a god into creation and say it created the universe, then what's the use of scientists researching on the origin of the universe since we have concluded that 'god did' . Remember if scientists agreed with all the human assumptions that gods made floods,lightning etc,we'd still be in stone age.
So the most logical and intelligent answer is I DONT KNOW

FxMasterz:
Where that gets interesting is that if it's unknown, how did it translate to It doesn't exist.

If you see it as something deserving further investigation, then you're agnostic. Not an atheist.

You cannot outrightly come out and say there's no God if you still need further investigation.

Do you believe dragons and unicorns exists?

FxMasterz:
This is babyish talk. By saying investigation won't make it appear even sounds much more incoherent. Because investigation doesn't make anything appear. It reveals what's already there.

And as I said earlier, your capacity to perceive is in itself a limit on your investigation. There are frequencies you cannot perceive and therefore cannot investigate. In fact, a dog and an elephant have better chances than you a human. If you can still argue this, it means you're closed to anything logical, you just want to keep on believing what you believe.

See, as it stands, heaven could be within our universe billions or even trillions of light years away. And also, both God and heaven could also be around us in a frequency we can never naturally perceive. I also believe that there are frequencies in which even our solid state here cannot be perceived.

Know your limitations and stop pretending you know everything and can access everything.

What I know is that Prayer as a spiritual exercise, when practiced consistently can make you perceive things from a different frequency that others cannot perceive.

You have started again with this hocus pocus bs. Remember you still owe me an apology for accusing me of not delivering your prayer note. Your prayer note that didn't do diddly squat,now u r now on another bs

jaephoenix:
You saying you don't know doesn't make one stvvpid, it actually makes one smart. If you say we cant see beyond a point,how do you know there is something beyond that spectrum? Ok,let's assume there's a creator. Which one outta the 1000s gods claim should we believe and why

My god because my fairy tale book said so

DeepSight:
+
Too true.


+
Too well said. Very well said. I believe that much that we dispute is actually all around us, simply invisible and imperceptible - to most.


+
Certain types of meditation I would say. Certain types of openness of spirit and mind, certain types of detachment from the physical. Such as astral travel, out of body experiences for example.

Which type of meditation causes openness of spirit blah blah and how did you confirm it? FzMasterz has been known to be a bs merchant on this forum

FxMasterz:
You got it bro!

Infact, it is still within logical reasoning frameworks to assume that the universe itself may be God. We have only seen a little within the universe. No one has seen the whole universe let alone seeing the outside of it.

We cannot truly know what the universe is until we can observe it from the outside of the universe itself. What if this universe itself is a huge living being that has a different build from us, and the planets, and all heavenly bodies are parts of what keeps it alive?

All descriptions of the universe are based on what we see on its inside from its inside. Imagine the microbes inside your gut describing you on the basis of what they see in your stomach? Atheists just need to think harder and stop being myopic. I hope lordreed and jaephoenix in particular are reading.

If the universe is a “being,” then we would see:

- Stars/galaxies as cells?
- Black holes as… pores?
- Humans as microbes in its gut?

No one can ever tell.

Modified: Just thinking out loud. The essence is for us to know that there are possibilities beyond our natural scope.

All you have said is 'what if'. How does this 'what if' translate to reality

FxMasterz:
You mentioned and named electromagnetism because you have had instruments that have perceived that frequency. What about the frequencies your instruments cannot perceive, and have not even been named? I just want you to think in a much broader scope.

So what frequencies we can't perceive? Has your god given any instruments how we can tune in,or do we just assume

DeepSight:
+
Brilliant.

This possibility - that the universe may be a living thing we dwell in and are part of just as you described, is something I have always thought of. In fact, one old poster on this platform said a similar thing years ago which I was happy to hear because I had been thinking it. The post was by a brilliant chap called Agentofallah. Can't find it.

A sort of pantheistic view.

It's still a thought. I can tell you the universe is a pile of turd

DeepSight:
+
Brilliant.

This possibility - that the universe may be a living thing we dwell in and are part of just as you described, is something I have always thought of. In fact, one old poster on this platform said a similar thing years ago which I was happy to hear because I had been thinking it. The post was by a brilliant chap called Agentofallah. Can't find it.

A sort of pantheistic view.

I can tell you the universe is a pile of turd from a gigantic elephant,and we live inside this turd. How does this sound?